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Warframe Difficulty defenses from community


Darklord_Tou
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I think one of the biggest issue warframe have been struggling from the early stage of the game is its difficulty. Also i am not a new player to the game i have been playing the game for more then 4 years and this issue still bugging me since the start. Now whenever this discussion is brought up i tend to see this few lines:

1. "You are suppose to be a god-like being fighting weak mortals" (A Power fantasy game if you will). Okay this idea is not bad but it doesnt actually translate well in video games. Its fun to obliterate everything in matter of seconds easily for about 10mins. But warframe is a game where you are suppose to be grinding for hours and hours doing the same loop it gets boring really fast. Now dont get me wrong it is fine to shut off your brain for a while playing/talking with your friends. And you can definitely have that(low level farming) in a game while also having really difficult teeth grinding challenging missions like many game already have. But you also need some challenging stuff for tryhards/endgame players or whatever.

2. "if you think game is too easy just use mk1 braton unmodded". Okay this is just straight up nonsense you might aswell tell people to play with hand tied or with there feets.

Also i think there is a difference between fun difficult and not fun difficult. And many tries where devs tried to add difficult stuff to game it falls mostly on not-fun difficult. I think when trying to create a new mode DE should try to figure out if its gonna be fun to do it for hours and not just think of cool looks because cool looks gonna wear off pretty fast but good gameplay loop wont.

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I love it when people don't respond to the legitimate discussions. I am one of those people.

All jokes aside I've given up on wf and them adding difficulty it's not them they've showed all of us this game is a power fantasy and as much as I'd like it to be something else take it or leave it. Personally I play warframe so little now and if your looking for difficulty save your time going down the caring and consideration of the game rabbit hole and drop wf or seriously go play another game for difficulty. DE can't implement such. And I don't want another fellow tenno falling to the lack of difficulty or content. Turn back tenno. Nothing good lies here

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1 hour ago, Darklord_Tou said:

I think when trying to create a new mode DE should try to figure out if its gonna be fun to do it for hours and not just think of cool looks because cool looks gonna wear off pretty fast but good gameplay loop wont.

people keep forgetting that difficulty is subjective: what you find hard, I might find easy and vice versa, because you or I might have the tools and experience necessary to complete the task at hand. there is no be-all-end-all solution to the problem of difficulty, because either us or DE would have figured it out by now.

there are still people who struggle with spy vaults, which I found hard to believe because the Vaults don't really change and I know almost all of them off by heart. but some people just find it tricky, so to them, difficulty would involve tryign to do stuff while doidging lasers and being stealthy, meanwhile some people will blaze through with no difficulty and then ask for something *they* find difficult.

until the community reaches a consensus on what would be considered "difficult" for the majority of players, this issue will not be disappearing. it might quieten down, but it will never go away.

 

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1 hour ago, Darklord_Tou said:

And you can definitely have that(low level farming) in a game while also having really difficult teeth grinding challenging missions like many game already have. But you also need some challenging stuff for tryhards/endgame players or whatever.

First thing first, you want to define what are things that build that challenge and difficulty. Is it walls of health? Is it aggressive earth shaker with heavy damage? Or what?

1 hour ago, Darklord_Tou said:

good gameplay loop

Define good gameplay loop

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22 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

IMHO, the moment you add difficulty on top of some 3% drop chance grind, that grind becomes infinitely worse. But that's just me.

Why? If they scale the content properly and add the difficulty in the correct way the end result for time vs reward will be the same.

Difficulty =/= more spongebobbyness. Difficulty would be giving the mobs proper mechanics and maybe toning down the braindead AoE options we have at out disposal. WF is one of very few action games out there that have completely ignored the system that is graphed attacks. Those are often the things that add challening gameplay, when you need to be on your toes regarding such things and avoiding them by popping the right skill at the right time or dodging it/taking cover. Here we have it on a few mobs and in those cases the attacks are weaker than the normal hits. Like Nox losing the fishbowl and comes charging at you, whoopiedoo, he knocks you down and deals barely no damage. Such an attack should be dangerous instead and far more of a threat than anything else that unit has in its arsenal.

It doesnt have to be "souls like" to have good punishing heavy hitting mechanics, it has been around in games since forever.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

All jokes aside I've given up on wf and them adding difficulty it's not them they've showed all of us this game is a power fantasy and as much as I'd like it to be something else take it or leave it. Personally I play warframe so little now and if your looking for difficulty save your time going down the caring and consideration of the game rabbit hole and drop wf or seriously go play another game for difficulty. DE can't implement such. And I don't want another fellow tenno falling to the lack of difficulty or content. Turn back tenno. Nothing good lies here

The worst thing is, that by not actually introducing any challenge to the game they are also attracting players, who don't want difficulty. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I do think one factor is also, that they are playing with the illusion, that difficult content is going to be there at some point. The longer this goes, the less credible that promise becomes.

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30 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

IMHO, the moment you add difficulty on top of some 3% drop chance grind, that grind becomes infinitely worse. But that's just me.

Well if you have actual difficulty, you also have the freedom to dramatically increase drop chances. This also has the added advantage, that things naturally become easier to get over time as the content gets easier to beat.

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The stumbling block is that if you revise mob AI and enforce tactics and etc, you have a very different game.

You can’t have this game and an entirely revised challenge model. The experience will fundamentally change.

Thats neither good nor bad, it just is.

Edited by Ham_Grenabe
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3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Why? If they scale the content properly and add the difficulty in the correct way the end result for time vs reward will be the same.

Difficulty =/= more spongebobbyness. Difficulty would be giving the mobs proper mechanics and maybe toning down the braindead AoE options we have at out disposal. WF is one of very few action games out there that have completely ignored the system that is graphed attacks. Those are often the things that add challening gameplay, when you need to be on your toes regarding such things and avoiding them by popping the right skill at the right time or dodging it/taking cover. Here we have it on a few mobs and in those cases the attacks are weaker than the normal hits. Like Nox losing the fishbowl and comes charging at you, whoopiedoo, he knocks you down and deals barely no damage. Such an attack should be dangerous instead and far more of a threat than anything else that unit has in its arsenal.

It doesnt have to be "souls like" to have good punishing heavy hitting mechanics, it has been around in games since forever.

I think what the souls games show very well is, that the gameplay doesn't actually have to be very fast paced. In a PvE game, you don't need to actually challenge the players reaction times.

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13 минут назад, gluih сказал:

Well if you have actual difficulty, you also have the freedom to dramatically increase drop chances. This also has the added advantage, that things naturally become easier to get over time as the content gets easier to beat.

And that's power creep. Something that already created a colossal gap between vets and normal people. Something that led us into "no challenge" to begin with.

Edited by Serafim_94
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27 minutes ago, 844448 said:

First thing first, you want to define what are things that build that challenge and difficulty. Is it walls of health? Is it aggressive earth shaker with heavy damage? Or what?

Define good gameplay loop

How about some goals:

Make it, so players actually have to play with each other and not alongside each other.

Make it, so failure is present in the game. Make taking risks worth it. You could for example have a mission, that requires a key (like a void key), that is actually difficult and you lose the key, if you fail.

Make reacting to the enemy a good strategy. More difficult to avoid attacks should deal less damage (it's ridiculous how quickly missiles can turn in this game).

Make resource management like hp, energy, ammo and maybe cooldowns relevant. This way you don't have to 1-shot players all the time.

Make bosses tanky enough, so players can use their regular guns and not kill the boss in < 5 seconds.

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3 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

And that's power creep. Something that already created a colossal gap between vets and normal people. Something that led us into "no challenge" to begin with.

A little bit of power creep is just part of the system. I don't think it has to be an enormous problem.

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9 minutes ago, gluih said:

I think what the souls games show very well is, that the gameplay doesn't actually have to be very fast paced. In a PvE game, you don't need to actually challenge the players reaction times.

For WF I think the fast pace needs to stay, it has been around for a long time. Though I wouldnt mind if they cut down that pace, especially around AoE abiltites and over the top room clearing AoE weapons.

They need to tone down enemy damage scaling, place a ceiling on it. Then give most mobs deadly cooldown based attacks. Have snipers stay back with heavy hitscan charge up attacks that we need to keep track off among the rest of the enemies. Maybe give better CC moves to things like Butchers, so they can knock us on our ass and maybe inspire players to use more anti-CC mods etc. The tiny roller grenades could also be improved massively, same with Nox's sludge sticky bombs, make them things we actually need to roll away from or die.

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52 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

The stumbling block is that if you revise mob AI and enforce tactics and etc, you have a very different game.

You can’t have this game and an entirely revised challenge model. The experience will fundamentally change.

Thats neither good nor bad, it just is.

Yeah. Although that could work in the beginning of the game... When its current shape was forming and the playerbase was far more adequate. One of the common feedback ideas was implementing cooldown for powers (that would kill two birds in the long-term: ability spam and power creepiness and so problematic concept of difficulty where players would have to use everything at their disposal while their powers were in CD state). Such thing wouldn't work nowadays. Just a simple mention of it from DE or players themselves would result in an overblown outcry/forum war.

Edited by Thundervision
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39 минут назад, gluih сказал:

A little bit of power creep is just part of the system. I don't think it has to be an enormous problem.

It already is THE problem. Adaptation. Arkanes, both frame and operator ones. Kitguns. Primed mods. All of those things came from trying to reward players for endgame content, or give us some long-term grind. All of those things, when we got them, contributed massively to our already insane power.

I still remember the time when, for me at least, restoring health was an issue that got me, eventually, killed in missions. Nowadays I just need to double-tap 5. Don't even get me started on energy economy.

Edited by Serafim_94
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38 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

For WF I think the fast pace needs to stay, it has been around for a long time. Though I wouldnt mind if they cut down that pace, especially around AoE abiltites and over the top room clearing AoE weapons.

They need to tone down enemy damage scaling, place a ceiling on it. Then give most mobs deadly cooldown based attacks. Have snipers stay back with heavy hitscan charge up attacks that we need to keep track off among the rest of the enemies. Maybe give better CC moves to things like Butchers, so they can knock us on our ass and maybe inspire players to use more anti-CC mods etc. The

I'm not trying argue, that warframe should be as slow as dark souls. It's just, that imo wf is way faster than necessary.

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56 minutes ago, 844448 said:

First thing first, you want to define what are things that build that challenge and difficulty. Is it walls of health? Is it aggressive earth shaker with heavy damage? Or what?

Define good gameplay loop

1.what makes something challenging and difficult? The thing that makes a game challenging and difficult has been same since the first game ever either its pong/tetris/super mario bros. its the reaction time. Question is how much reaction time makes something easy(very slow reaction time for human brain to catch up or not punishing enough when fail to react in time)/ Difficult(fast reaction time but fair and punishing when fail to react)/ Impossible( either so fast reaction time that human brain cant catch up and/or extremely punishing when fail to do so)

2.Define good gameplay loop: it is very difficult to say as the idea of fun is subjective... someone can have fun sitting in a dark empty room while most people wont. So good/fun gameplay loop would be something most people will enjoy keep doing. IMO stuff like dodging telegraphed attacks / rewarding accurate shots etc. Obviously to get something like that in warframe you will need a huge balance change on both players and enemies on the game.

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2 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

It already is THE problem. Adaptation. Arkanes, both frame and operator ones. Kitguns. Primed mods. All of those things came from trying to reward players for endgame content, or give us some long-term grind. All of those things, when we got them, contributed massively to our already insane power.

I still remember the time when, for me at least, restoring health was an issue that got me, eventually, killed in missions. Nowadays I just need to double-tap 5.

At least all of those things can be balanced around. Adaptation makes frames more tanky and you make enemies deal more damage. The problem with difficulty is, that you might have a frame like mesa, that just gets 95% for no apparent reason, while mag, nyx and so on just blow up immediately. Adaptation specifically also has the problem, that it just amplifies differences between frames.

Power creep is always going to be a problem, but there are ways to work with it (not saying, that this is done well in warframe).

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1 час назад, SneakyErvin сказал:

Why? If they scale the content properly and add the difficulty in the correct way the end result for time vs reward will be the same.

Difficulty =/= more spongebobbyness. Difficulty would be giving the mobs proper mechanics and maybe toning down the braindead AoE options we have at out disposal. WF is one of very few action games out there that have completely ignored the system that is graphed attacks. Those are often the things that add challening gameplay, when you need to be on your toes regarding such things and avoiding them by popping the right skill at the right time or dodging it/taking cover. Here we have it on a few mobs and in those cases the attacks are weaker than the normal hits. Like Nox losing the fishbowl and comes charging at you, whoopiedoo, he knocks you down and deals barely no damage. Such an attack should be dangerous instead and far more of a threat than anything else that unit has in its arsenal.

It doesnt have to be "souls like" to have good punishing heavy hitting mechanics, it has been around in games since forever.

You know what goes extremely well with timed telegraphed attacks? Peer-to-peer ping.

Also, do tell what kind of "heavy-hitting" attack is needed to punish Inaros, who can facetank Ropa lasers. What kind of ability will prevent Mesa from annihilating enemy on sight. I'll give you the answer to the second one. Nullifiers. A definite fan favourite around here.

You guys are all about armchair theoretics. You write one and the same nonsense about "better AI" or "difficult enemies" without thinking how it can ACTUALLY be implemented in an actual game. Most of the time - it can't, or really shouldn't.

Edited by Serafim_94
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Just now, Serafim_94 said:

Also, do tell what kind of "heavy-hitting" attack is needed to punish Inaros, who can facetank Ropa lasers. What kind of ability will prevent Mesa from annihilating enemy on sight. I'll give you the answer to the second one. Nullifiers. A definite fun favourite around here.

 

The issue with the nullifiers is it was a band-aid fix. Instead of balancing the overpowered abilities they decided to create nulifiers which shuts down abilities good/bad/op.

BTW i do liked the nulifiers but i can also understand why many hates it.

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51 минуту назад, Darklord_Tou сказал:

The issue with the nullifiers is it was a band-aid fix. Instead of balancing the overpowered abilities they decided to create nulifiers which shuts down abilities good/bad/op.

BTW i do liked the nulifiers but i can also understand why many hates it.

Oh, it was absolutely a bandaid fix.But what else could have worked back then? What would work now?

Warframe difficulty, in general, went to S#&amp;&#036; somewhere at release of corrupted mods. AKA, it was broken forever. Just on those mods things like 100% damage reduction Trinity and map-wide CC Loki arose. Then we got augments, primed mods etc etc etc. Like when Void interception meta for prime parts farm was Mirage, who stunlocked entire map in perpetuity. Energy wasn't a balancing factor either - each organized group simply had Trinity for EV spam.

It's a complex matter. There's no one factor that contributes to Warframe being broken. Game is notorious for having some form of cheese for every situation needed. While that cheese gets mopped up over time, there's always something to be abused due to sheer diversity of our arsenal.

There's also a question of vertical vs horizontal progression. You know the vertical one from almost any MMORPG you ever played. Or from Destiny. It's when each new major content pack increases the power ceiling, makes previous tiers of gear obsolete, and forces people to grind for new levels of power to answer increased demand from content. Path of Exile takes a spin on this system with Seasonal soft-reset (leagues), and continuous meta-shifts. The end result is the same - players are required to re-acquire their power on regular basis, maintaining an illusion of challenge in the process.

Warframe doesn't do that. And thank god, really. Imagine regrinding all your primed mods each mainline update. What it tried to do, for the last couple of years, is horizontal progression. I know exactly one game so far that pulled that off - Guild Wars 2. Each of its new expansions introduced sideways mechanic, like flying or mounts, and locked content behind it. This way player power level stayed intact, but the game still demanded you to grind those new systems to experience new content. While this doesn't create "challenge", per se, it still creates sense of novelty and progression, while also not shafting players who took a break from the game.

That last part, I feel, is why Warframe tries to adapt the horizontal system. WF playerbase migrates in and out on regular basis. Look at Eidolons, Orb Mothers and especially at Railjack. All of those are content side-steps, which, to a degree, respect the power level of the player, yet still demand acquisition of new stuff. However, what this system creates, are "content islands". It also, while maintaining content novelty, doesn't maintain content difficulty - once the meta is established and arsenal adjusted, all of those systems become quite easy to do.

Between those two approaches, it's "pick your poison" situation. Personally, I like our current poison just fine.

Edited by Serafim_94
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If you guys want difficulty that doesn't essentially translate into enemies close from impossible to kill that one hit kill you, then you will have to seriously consider the most inconsiderable, sinful and criminal action to do in your lovely space ninja game. Something so abject, people here are afraid to talk about it and strongly believe they will get arrested for it. It's like the Voldemort of the warframe forum ! What am I talking about ? I'm talking about nerfs. Ooooh ! Spoooky !

Most of the issues we have with the game's current balance are, in my opinion, and indirect consequence to the effective hp gap between frames. Super tanky frames like Nezha or Baruuk can reach an insane amount of effective hp thank to damage reduction powers. Some frames don't have anything DR related but can compensate very effectively through other reliable means. Either by very high base stats (Inaros), very effective regeneration (Oberon, Wisp, Wukong, and Inaros again) or special mechanics that can effectively make them invincible (Limbo, Revenant, Rhino).

These frames pretty much shaped the endgame we have today, and had an even stronger impact than our "beloved" nukers, to the point where anything you fight at sortie level can down most squishies like Banshee or Nyx in very few hits (or a single one) in the most unfair ways. Because high survivability became a must have, this pushed players more and more towards high health and armor frames, or frames who can cheese the whole thing effortlessly (Limbo is very well known for that kind of stuff). As a side effect, shields progressively became useless.

We asked for more difficult content. DE delivered through content such as Sorties and Arbitrations. But we chose to cheese that difficulty with tanks in return. As a result, the game is getting more and more balanced around frames with insane survivability, to the point where everything gets reworked to be tankier. If you don't believe me, just consider the fact that Ember got her Overheat power back in some way.

This is why it gets very urgent to balance the effective hp between warframes so we can then balance the game's content better and make actual "endgame" missions that wouldn't translate into squishies getting perpetually trashed while tanks can pretty much shrug off everything. This effectively means nerfing a lot of survivability based stuff, but also nerfing heavily the enemy damage curve, along with buffing low survivability frames. 

The biggest offender when it comes about boosting effective hp is, of course, damage reduction. Consider this : 90% DR is the equivalent of increasing your maximum hp by 10 ! When I put my warding halo on my Nezha, I'm effectively increasing my health by 10 until the halo breaks (and most of us Nezha mains know how durable that halo is). Now take armor reduction into account, add an umbral build and two arcane guardians, and you will get a frame that can reach above the 40k hp treshold, which is absolutely mental yet very needed for the current difficulty curve. This is why I'm in favor of hardcapping DR to 75% instead, which represents a much more reasonable x4 effective hp increase.

Heal based mechanics and Iron Skin might also need turning after that, but that's nothing simple value tweaks cannot fix. What would be harder to balance however is the more special kind of survivability powers. Powers such as Mesmer Skin for example (I heard it can get really crazy), or Limbo's rift mechanic. These powers may need to be adressed individually.

Just nerfing survivability wouldn't fix those who struggle to stay alive to begin with. This is why I think base stats of all warframes should be looked at. In the current metagame, low armor is usually a hard flaw to get around with, so I think all armor values should be buffed to at least 150 as a minimum armor value. That represents 33.33% damage reduction on health : not much in the end to be honest but with an enemy damage nerf it can go a long way. Shields also need to remain viable, and we all know how much shields lost popularity since the introduction of sorties. I think raising the shield base stat for all warframes could do wonders, as well as releasing some specific mod to helps shield tank. Adaptation is supposed to be the one thing you pair with shields (like health pairs with armor), but it doesn't work as nicely as everyone think it does to begin with due to its buildup mechanics. We probably need something else.

Of couse these suggestions wouldn't be meaningful without a drastic nerf to enemy damage output ! A very needed thing when you consider that some level 100 units can one hit kill Banshee Prime through a full vitality and redirection (yes, it gets really crazy). It's basically all about making the hp gap between frames narrower so we can balance the enemy damage output much, much more effectively and in the end get the same horde game you guys appreciate, but without anyone getting one hit killed unfairly. After all, squishy frame players kinda want to enjoy endgame game too, and they shouldn't have to do fancy building shenanigans just to make their warframe 's survivability work. Also, since we nerf the damage output of enemies a lot, then it would just mean that 90% DR or really busted survivability isn't as much of a requirement anymore, thus justifying the hardcap of DR and several more changes.

After all of that, I think It would be much easier to make a well balanced endgame missions that allows all warframes to be useable. It's maybe still not enough tho. The warframe endgame balancing is one hell of a problem that was ignored for way too long and it all stems from survivability powers first. Anyway, changes are needed, and not just nice buffs. We can't just keep buffing stuff. Repetitive buffing is what brought us in that situation to begin with. It's time to bring out the nerf hammer... And it shouldn't be that bad if it's done well, I promise.

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For me, the issue is how the difficulty disapear as you progress in the game.

At the beginning the game has greatly balanced difficulty and all, but when you start getting more weapons and mods, the difficulty isn't there anymore because the game difficulty is not planned for super optimised loadout, so you can do any content with any gear. 
Allowing build flexibility is good for comfort and fashion frame, but it also mean you don't need to have well though build with optimized gears, so using that good build will just make the game super easy and it's a bad point since modding and synergy between gear is a central point of warframe.

Overall, it mean the difficulty decrease as you get more stuff and familiar with the game mechanics (which make sense) BUT you don't actually need that stuff and knowlege so you just reduce the difficulty non-casual players who optimize their loadout, aka the ones who want this difficulty.

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Teven the most squishy frames being able to leiszurly walk around in a lvl 150 mission and facetank enemy bullet storm for a while (then heal up in seconds magus elevate/ repair, while ccing targets around you lockdown/anomaly) and go back to facetanking everything.

then looking at melee weapon class rework, before 95% weapons were bad/ unsuable in lvl 150 missions. now the most basic equip manages to kill a lvl 150 enemy.

  • atm primary and secondary still lack in that regard showing a extreme difference between good and bad weapons

regarding dmg on waframes those only become relevant because of specific interactions/ dmg types. Most warframes themself deal abyssmal low dmg vs later lvls, so instead of a generic overhaul that would hit every warframe, i think just hitting those few expections is a better ontake to that.

to make scaling reasonable (enemy and own) warframe just needs give a) diffrent starting points (for enemy scaling) b) a max lvl (example 2h survival/ x defense rounds, x interception rounds = end --> get special reward) having an end and as such an end lvl --> is not sth bad !! abusing certain mechanics so u 2h mot solo doesnt make you suprior to others, neither its especially diffifuclt (just a gigantic time investment for no actual reward)

warframe and weapon scaling (with new introduced baseline --> below): forma + catalyst/reactor (catalyst + exilus + 5 forma = +7 lvl --> 4 ability upgrades (4th lvl is state of ability now + - small adjustments, 3 warframe base stats upgrades + lvl "37" giving upgraded "max lvl" bonus)

for weapons: 5forma + catalyst + exilus = 7x upgrade (base stats, only a bit) --> add weapon gilding (125k standing --> depending on faction/syndicate get upgrade in x stat + syndicate effect (or better upgrade for cetus/fortune)

---> time investment into sth makes it stronger.

for this the question would be what do you make the baseline for sacling: 

  • enemy scaling armor and dmg same starting point (exponetial)
  • warframe armor scaling (expoential, then flattens after 700 armor), warframe base hp/ shield (differences)
    • how do u balance enemy dmg between inaros (gets to have redicuolus effective hp) and mag so both have an engaging game expierence ?
  • warframe abilites that buff (multiplies the dmg by weapons --> even greater disparty between good and bad weapons) or grant dmg metigation (-->stacks with adaption, and armor dmg reduction
    • even worse problemantic with group buffs
    • also auras (4 corrosive projection stripping 100% armor --> should probably work like corrosive proc, or value tuened down so its max possible to get 99% armor reduciton with 4 corrosive + 4 coaction drift)
  • Whole warframes: chroma, octavia, gara, saryn, (limbo?), (mainly newer warfrmaes that often have buff + dmgreduction + debuff/cc + aoe (atleast 2 out of them are always present)
  • Rivens adding factor x for more gamebreaking (its ment to "auto"balance good and bad weapons, what its used for is make good weapons even stronger)
  • Modscaling being nearly always % (if its not its absolutly trash atm) --> it makes it redicoulus difficult to balance numbers (as the base diffirence in dmg or stats always gets amplified, so strong get stronger) --> warframe health/armor, weapon dmg
  • arcanes (95% god tier trash useless --> 5% game breaking op) --> also them being opend up (how you aquire them from now to before --> standing and/ eidolons which are far more frequently/often played then the raids before (so it became more of a baseline to have x arcane)
    • arcane avenger, guardian, energize, (those arbitration dmg mods (melee/primary)
    • magus elevate, repair, lockodwn, (anomaly?)
  • some mods being op (adaption --> as long as you have basesurvivability so u can tank 3-4 hits its godtier broken)
  • focus school:
    • vazarin protective dash 5 sec invuerbiltiy + 60% max hp regen over 5sec
    • zenurik: temporal blast, energizing dash, energy orb gives additional energy
  • operator voidmode (free invis + moventment + warframe is invunverbal during that time)
  • aoe weapons: often only downsight is self dmg (somewhat low reload, low fireate) --> good crit, good status. great base dmg ---> who cares for fireate and reload 1 is enough to kill 20 enemies anyway
    • compare this to alot of primaries, they lack dmg, (some have rediclious) high reload, low crit

after all this is done. you can start looking at warframes dmg capablites (how much dmg does x ability do for x amount energy used)

-----> Spoiler: some ideas to the above ( attempts to fix that )

  Inhalt unsichtbar machen

 

  • its so #*!%ing easy to upkeep energy without even useing 1 energy pizza, even while spamming abilites. (depending how much worse it got, you could keep more range for ability area or strength, or reduce it. --> what i am against is changing the % stat on those (its probably better to just change base value) if mods are changed thats affect every warfrmae, even those that are not strong atm so these are even worse (or need compensation buff)
    • range espically tricky to change (differnece in maps, and layout. you could get quick corpus defense or the one that has the big open space in the middle, or "free-roam maps")

 

idea

(weapons and warframes) --> feeling is more lineary, everything tends to have a smaller difference in base stats (even more when mods that give base stats, become flat (armor, health, energy, shield, weapon dmg, (fire rate/attack speed ?)), --> progression part comes now aswell from investing time (forma,...) on sth which enhances its base stats. Riven would then be the rng roll machine to make it unique / really good (you can narrow the riven dispostion better, as all weapons are closer together to begin with)

---> difficulity to adjust dmg between weapon types (create more weapons types, make base dmg mode around the weapon class its put on (example: serration on sniper: 1200 dmg; serration on assult rifle : 300dmg on launcher (tonkor, ogris,...): 700dmg)

Enemy scaling: every planet has own base stats (more generally speaking for missions between 1-80 (starting lvl) every 10 lvl it gets own base stat --> (lvl 1 endless, scales differntly then lvl 80 endless) --> since it comes along with junctions or quest, you can take a new baseline for that planet (mods (what you own, rank) x forma, catalyst, reactor,.....) into the equation to adequatly set starting lvl --> highest voidsection (max mods, primed mods, 2 forma, catalyst/reactor,...)

to add on this --> i am sad that there only so few corpus enemies (cetus, mars, zombi, kuva grineer, PoE grineer, but only corpus and orbvallis corpus (it gets even worse with infected and corrupted)

arcanes: make then more likely but reduce usefullness when triggered, or specify the trigger effect but upgrade effect (example guardian: on dmg --> active always; value from 600-150, acane energize --> reduce energy orb drob chance (and health orb drop chance overall), half effect quality (you gain half energy) or just --> 150% energy gain from every energy orb (passive)

focus school: tune mentioned stuff down (just a small bit) --> energizing dash: max. 3energy/sec 30 sec, vazarin protective dash: 3sec invunerbility 50% max hp regen ----> while in operator mode warframe is immune to status effects (new ones getting inflicted not the already inflicted ones) and es dealt 10% of dmg (but threat lvl is majroly reduced) --> operator in voidmode is not affected by energy pads (like all drain/channel abilities)

dmg reduction and dmg buff abilities tuned down by atleast half (or dmg reduction cap, besides some special cases being ~75% --> starting point ~30%), dmg buff abilities should maximaly reach  ~300%, or make some not be affected by strenght at all (4th ability lvl could be used to give those then a better boost) -->(also not by duration lookin at gauss)

adding more lifelyhood to missions, more frequent invasion, assasination note target showing up in ur sabotage mission to interrupt you. more mini bosses (i think orbvallis did this part good). Give them special weak points, combo interactions (parazon, operator, consumables (traps (like the siphon thing for scan targets, just for those minibosses depnding on humanoid, robotic, infested). make the ship have more commands and implement them into those features aswell (a bit like the key mechanic of derelic runs), if you dont have that on you, x is more difficult to kill as the "finisher sequenze" cant be started.

--> we have stem kits in warframe (they are goddamn awfull) give those things an actual usefull feature --> increases warframe base hp/ amor whatever by 20% over duration of mission. so in endless runs with now different scaling (starting and end) you may want to consider to use them. --> on this note, decrease amount of consumables (25x heal, 25x energy) --> for open world can be refreshed after starting new bounty, for endless refreshes every 2 (+1rounds for every additional squad member) (--> solo: 10 wave; 4squad: 25 waves defense)

--> some could be created for weapons (elemental buff for x seconds --> 30% of weapons dmg is now x elemental (doesnt combine with ealready existing ones) --> has flat 50% chance to proc its status) --> while this all adds some powercreep again, those are relativly low effect and only work over a certain duration (lets say a mission)

--> the overall interactivity and livelyhood of a mission would advance. brain would be able to compete (lol not really) with brute strength. gear (consumable) becomes more important /relevant.

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