Warframe Difficulty defenses from community

[DarkSkysz]

For all those reasons you listed...

If they (the crying babies) can't solo a mission with mk1 unmoded it is too hard for them and should be nerfed.

Edited February 26, 2020 by DarkSkysz

[Fleuria]

When I saw this title, I filled in the blank automatically: Warframe's greatest weakness is that it's a game. (Hopefully it's obvious, how this is a strength?)

So, anyways, there's always going to be people complaining about it. Some of the complaints are things that I think would be legit (lots of little bugs), but other stuff is just people with different preferences. And, unhappy people have the loudest voices. Some people -- complaining is their thing. Sometimes there's good ideas buried in there, of course. And then there's people who are in something like my current mood (where I'm sort of complaining about complainers).

And, sure, a game needs obstacles you can fight past, and sure, the movement system adds challenge to building content, and to keeping low end systems running. But those are solvable problems -- problems which some other games have more-or-less solved (but which most other games don't even try to solve).

But, for example, you could also say that warframe's biggest strength and weakness is how it caters to low-end systems. They could do a lot if they'd bump up the memory use -- but that would toss current users who struggle with the current implementation.

Something similar happens with nerfs. They do nerf, occasionally, but they have to be careful when doing so for a variety of reasons (which I don't feel like trying to explain right now).

Anyways... bottom line: some people are just bored. For lots of people, being bored is an improvement for them.

And, also, it takes time to generate content for people to play. (Even boring content takes time...). I think *I* know how to improve things, to some degree, in minor ways. But... removing key strengths is not how I would go about it. 

[Savire510]

47 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

 

• Universally high mobility makes it harder for AI to threaten the player.

Did you really just say that movement 1.0 was better because stupid AI could keep up with us? Slowing people down and reducing their movement to increase challenge is a bad idea. This isnt Resident Evil ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Movement 1.0 was not good. It was slow and painful compared to what we have today. Stamina bar existed and was a thing of nightmares. This is nostalgia speaking. Though i prefer wallruning to wallhoping its not enough for me to say that today's movement is worse than that of 7 years ago.

49 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

 

• Universally high mobility limits possible Frame archetypes, as mobility cannot be the outstanding Frame feature.

 

Titania, Gauss, Volt, Nezha seem to disagree. They are still way faster than most of the frames and you can see this every time in public.

Titania with her flying, Gauss with his speed bursts prove that mobility can be a frame feature

 

55 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

• Old tilesets till this day do not support movement 2.0 as on some ledges Frames will bump their head against it and not climb up as they used to do.

Thats why tilesets are remastered, next in line is the oldest one - corpus ship.

[White_Matter]

100% on you with this.

I've also created a thread about this at some point. 

The parkour is what makes the game play great, but it also makes the game basically nonchallenging, because you can run past any challenge without any repercussion.

Enemies hitting too hard ? Bullet jump. Don't have enough dps, bullet jump. 

 

And yes, without nerfing parkour it will be near impossible to come up with challenging level/enemy design in this game, unless they do drastic core changes to enemy AI and level design.

 

edit :

The problem with parkour 2.0 is, it is added on top of the game, without changing the existing fundementals.

Meaning, in the existing game where you couldn't move as freely because of lack of mobility and the difficulty of stamina management, things became challenging at times in corridors or open areas.

Now you can just run past everything and nothing can stop you.

Edited February 26, 2020 by White_Matter

[Drachnyn]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Yamazuki:

Those games also have limited movement, which is why good positioning is actually necessary. If those games had the movement of Warframe, all those boss fights would be easy due to no cool down on movement and even being able to attack while doing some movements.

When I'm thinking about some of the boss fights I saw in FF14, the arenas are also much smaller than our average warframe missions. Yes we cant just port a FF14 raid boss to warframe, instead we can introduce a lot more movement into the mechanics than a typical MMO ever could. I think a good example for that is actually the exploiter fight: due to the speed of the coolant raknoids, quick movement becomes very important for the mechanic of the fight. Now I dont think exploiter is the perfect boss fight but it does reward for good movement.

[SpiritTeA]

Difficulty is hard thing. I haven’t played a lot of MMORPG back in past seriously. Only one which I played was Elder Scrolls Online which I got only beca I love this universe but God damn it... It has so disgusting gameplay where you must have stable 60+ fps and no ping at all. Every single inch of difficulty there is that mobs super bulky and one-shots you if you staying still/having lag spike and... Hey that’s all about difficulty! All the “unique boss mechenics” in all games is *you avoiding one-shot attack and deal demege* and I completely cant understand why people crying that “spongebullets with one shot weapons isn’t difficulty it’s developers laziness!!1”. In every single game enemies toughness and one-shot attacks its only indicator of difficulty. But Warframe has great battle gameplay. It’s fast is rapid. The only way to raise it’s difficulty it’s apply -MOT- mode to high lvl missions (triple enemies damage), take away hitscan weapon and make them immune against many CC, and lower their numbers on missions significantly of course. 

[Sepharoth]

It's just to bad we can't select our own difficulty level. I have no issues with the game as it is but I know there are many that like extra challenge. So if there was a way to choose our own difficulty level, then everyone could play the way they wanted. If you make the game harder, you alienate those that don't want it that way. And if you make it easier, you frustrate those that want more challenge. It is by no means an easy feat to implement but it still would be nice for those that wanted it.

[(PSN)LoneWolf_001]

Warframe is nice all around because the challenge is optional. You choose what weapons to use: Skana or Reaper Prime, Braton or Acceltra, Lato or Kuva Seer. You choose what Warframe to use and what Mods to put on. You choose how hard the game is and how you go about it. If you want a challenge use underused weapons and Warframes or try out Skiajati stealth builds(these are really fun BTW!).

Sure some things could use a balance adjustment, but if you make everything perform on the same level you destroy the power fantacy element and choice becomes a moot point. It's a PvE game. If it's too easy (you're bored), try something new.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

To me it feels like DE is balancing their difficulty these days around the garbage energy economy. They need to overhaul that first.

For hitscan - Grineer are the tanks of the factions. They should never have hitscan weapons since their difficulty comes in their durability. Only the Corpus should have hitscan weaponry on certain enemies.

When it comes to mobility, sprint should be the default for obvious reasons. I actually think stamina should return in some regard, but only for spin attacks and bullet jumping really. 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

How about we just keep the movement and toss in some real monster/giants to fight that can match it for difficulty since we're on that level now and having a team comprised of Veil Nox and Wolf of Saturns level Lichs should be piling in at the one to two hour mark and beyond...because that would make sense in us getting downed by one shots and the enemy saying send in the gladiators to kill these guys.

Edited February 26, 2020 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[ShortCat]

1 hour ago, Savire510 said:

Did you really just say that movement 1.0 was better because stupid AI could keep up with us? Slowing people down and reducing their movement to increase challenge is a bad idea. This isnt Resident Evil ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Are people not capable of not fhinking in extremes? "Slower" or "less" is not equal "stationary" and "none". In the current system it is practically impossible to pressure players into corners, because we can just escape.

1 hour ago, Savire510 said:

Movement 1.0 was not good. It was slow and painful compared to what we have today. Stamina bar existed and was a thing of nightmares. This is nostalgia speaking. Though i prefer wallruning to wallhoping its not enough for me to say that today's movement is worse than that of 7 years ago.

Stamina was useless, indeed.

1 hour ago, Savire510 said:

Titania, Gauss, Volt, Nezha seem to disagree. They are still way faster than most of the frames and you can see this every time in public.

Titania can fly and Nezha can teleport. You also forgott Nova & Wukong. Flying and teleporting is basically the end of the line. There is no beter mobility obtions available. While Volt and Gauss are fast, they have less vertical mobility. In the old system Valkyr's Ripline or Super jump had their benefits, because they offered tactical advantages, something hardly possible under the current system.

1 hour ago, Savire510 said:

Thats why tilesets are remastered, next in line is the oldest one - corpus ship.

Ah, yes, 5 years later and they are still "working on it".

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by ShortCat

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

See railjack? A lot of topics about enemies being bullet sponges, being too difficult, getting one shot by them and blablabla...

Because bullet sponges aren't difficult. They're tedious.

You'll note that over the past few days I have been in both the threads asking for better balance in Warframe and the ones criticising the Kosma enemies' health bars. Sometimes I've even been typing responses in both simultaneously.

[CR0ME]

Warframes weakness... You run you shoot, you run you shoot, you run you shoot. You might collect weapons, most of them are mastery fodder.

It sounds weird but fishing pointed that out for me.

 

[DeccanTraps]

If we're going to talk about balance lets really talk about balance. That means starting completly over, doing away with the HUGE fluxes of value brought by mods so we can flatten out the differance between unranked gear and maxed out gear, between new game and end game. Mo more bullet sponges, but also no more canned hunts. That in turn lets us move away from boss imunity and hard counters to soft counters and resistances. No more 1 hit kills from foes, no more hard CC or invulnerability.

 

These changes, in narrowing the diferance between the top and the botton in mechanical terms, would broaden the scope of 'viable' frames and gear, and make skill matter more (This will frankly hurt me, skill is not amoung my skills). THEN we can start talking about desired experiance on a node per node level, the playgrounds and the proving grounds, the managment of tension not as a constant ractchet in endless games, but a melody, shifting volume and tension between build up and release.

At this stage, anything less than a full rebuild if everything, Warframe 2: now even warframyer, is in terms of acomplishing balance or chalange, milking a dead cow.

[TARINunit9]

5 hours ago, Darklord_Tou said:

Warframe difficulty... something that bugging my brain for long time.. Can it be improved and can it be better?

Oh hello This Thread Again, I hope you're having a nice day

I'll drop the sarcasm, lemme just link you to another post I did on the matter: Sorry if it has too much Doom for your liking

[DreisterDino]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Darklord_Tou:

So can they make a fair difficulty without changing the movement? well i dont know...

Well, i think Warframe can have difficulty even with our Parcour-Abilities.

They key imo is to make us use these Abilities, they could work with it to create a fun challenge designed around Parcour.

On Top of that, i think there is nothing wrong with restricting some of our other Powers and its even needed to create a challenge possibly.

But the important word is "some". What they did in the Grendel Missions just takes all of what makes Warframe Warframe away, hence not many people like it.

So in certain missions/Bossfights very specific Abilities of ours could be limited/forbidden (Energy Generation or Operators or Modding to a certain extent or Arcanes, etc).

Edit²: Image the mentioned Grendel Missions, but instead of denying just everything (Gear Wheel, Modding, Operator,...), what if they would just forbid the use of our 4th Ability and something else (a Sortie Modifier like Pistol Only) in one Mission and in another one we have no abilites but the gearwheel for example...that might make people find interesting new methods to play the game in general or certain frames while still letting us use at least some of the skills we grinded for and still feeling like Warframe.

 

If you want to ask how this should be possible, i made a concept some time ago with this approach in mind.

If you read through it, please dont get triggered by the word Thumper just like people did when i first posted this idea because DE failed to create something fun with them 😄 Edit: Oh, and things like the Blast Radius of Rockets etc would definetly need finetuning , but those are just Details.

Anyway, this is the idea:

 

Zitat

  

 

Walking Fortress Thumper

 

General Conditions:

• no operator mechanics (we cannot use our operator within a 100m radius of the Thumper)
• no invulnerability phases (the thumper can be damaged at all times)
• no AoE-abilities - strong attacks instead which might be deadly but...

• all attacks will have audio-cues and good visibility
• all attacks can be evaded with good Movement and Timing or Squad Coordination

• large EHP and DamageOutput
• huge size and slow movement
• 3 permanent weakpoints + 3 different temporary weakpoints (those get triggered by hitting the weakpoints a lot and are connected to special attacks)

 

• "adaptive difficulty": "are you really good at Parcour/Aiming and have no problem with hitting the weakpoints all the time? Prepare for lots special attacks against you! Are you still learning and having problems hitting the weakpoints? It will take longer to take the Thumper down but you will face far less special attacks." Besides that, the strength and numbers of the support calls we will face during this bossfight might depend on our overall DPS.

 

The Thumper

It will have 4 ways of attacking us/protecting itself:

1. Mounted Turrets (can be destroyed)
2. Rocket launchers (can not be destroyed)
3. special attacks (triggered)
4. calling support (triggered)

 

1. Mounted Turrets:

There will be 6 Turrets mounted onto arms which can move indepently a little and can be destroyed.

They can be compared to the usual Turrets you can find on the Plains of Eidolon.

 

Zitat

• 4x akkalak (Minigun)
• 2x vruush (antiair)
• bigger HP and Damage than the usual Turrets
• but once they are destroyed they are gone and wont respawn
• taking them down should be the players priority when starting the fight
• their HP doesnt count to the Thumpers HP, so its optional to take them down

 

 

2. Rocket Launchers:

Unlike the Turrets, the Rocket launchers can not be destroyed and will constantly attack us.

There will be 3 different types of rockets - every x seconds one randomly selected type will get launched.

All rockets can be destroyed mid-air, destroying the largest rockets close to the Thumper will add Bonus Damage for ~5 seconds!

 

Zitat

 

Massive Rockets (4x launched at the same time)

• unguided
• slow travel speed (like the pillars from the orbspider)
• instant kill in a 30m area
• emits loud humming in the air and a alarm-syren will announce the rocket when launched

Medium Rockets (8x launched at the same time)

• will target the players when launched, but unguided afterwards
• medium travel speed
• instant kill in a 15m area
• emits smoke-trail and a moderate buzzing

Small Rockets (12 launched at the same time)

• will target the players when launched
• will follow players but with a huge turn-radius
• instant kill in a 5m area
• emits bright light and loud noise

 

 

3. Special Attacks:

After a certain amount of hits to the Thumper's weakpoints, these special attacks will get triggered.

While they will be an additional threat they will be a chance to increase our damage at the same time.

 

Zitat

 

Stomp

• stomping with a leg will create a shockwave on the ground
• 270° cone - 10m wide
• reducing HP of a frame by 50% and stuns for 2 seconds
• deadly if HP is below 25% when hit
• legs will have an effect and animation before launching the attack
• bonus damage if we hit the leg with a Melee weapon up to 3 seconds after the stomp

 

Release

• will open a gate with a ramp on it's bottom to release a special defense unit
• 4 Nox + a few random Grineer will rush out and attack us
• this ramp is open for ~5 seconds
• the extending ramp will announce this special attack
• it becomes a temporary weakpoint - hitting the gate while open will add Bonus Damage

 

Charge

• ~5 charges in a row
• 1 charge has a range of ~50m
• drastically increases movement speed
• will target the player that made the last hit first
• instant kill when player gets hit
• drastically increased damage resistance on body
• drastically increased bonus damage on weakpoints

 

FireBlast

• The Thumper will launch Fireballs directed at us
• fast traveltime
• radius of ~2,5m
• reduces Health by 50% when our HP is above 50%, deadly if our HP is below 50%
• shooting through these fireballs will add extra Damage to our projectiles

 

4. Support Calls

• at 25% / 50% / 75% Damage taken the Thumper calls for support
• support will consist out of 1 / 2 / 3 Tusk Bolkors + 2 / 4 / 6 Nox + 5 / 10 / 15 Heavy Dargyns (piloted by a Heavy Gunner)
• we can Hijack a Heavy Dargyn

 

Ok, thats it for the boss itself, what about the Rewards?

 

RewardTable:

Important Note: I created this Reward-Table before the recent announcements, so dont blame me for some overlapping 😄

Also, all %-values are more or less "random" and are only there to show a direction.

Anyway, you can check the Table in the Spoiler below.

The general goal is:

• additional possibility to gain standing
• interesting cosmetics (Sculpture/Sigil)
• sustainable Rewards we might always want to farm (1-day weapon enhancements)

Spoiler

• 1,5% Ayatan Treasure you can see at Old Man Suumbaat's store
• 2,5% Ostron-Kin Sigil (works like any other Syndicate Sigil, can be put on Warframe to collect standing)
• 3,0% Ostron-Surah Sigil
• 4,0% Ostron-Trusted Sigil
• 5,0% Ostron-Visitor Sigil
• 6,0% Ostron Offworlder Sigil

 

 

• 15% 1 day weapon utility-enhancement class I (+ 100% Firerate / + 100 Reload Speed / +100% Magazine Size / + 2m Punch Through / Base Status Chance of 50%)
• 15% 1 day weapon utility-enhancement class II (Silencer /  Custom Scope (activated on Zoom) / Homing Shot for weapons with traveltime / 3 round burst mode for singleshot weapons / laser sight (blinds enemies within 25m when aiming)

 

• 20% Rare Gem that can be converted into Ostron-Standing (10k)
• 30% Rare Ore that can be converted into Ostron Standing (5k)

 

A weapon can have 1 enhancement from each class equipped at the same time
Enhancements for Melee Weapons might be buyable for standing from Hok for Standing

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by DreisterDino

[Darklord_Tou]

15 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

Well, i think Warframe can have difficulty even with our Parcour-Abilities.

They key imo is to make us use these Abilities, they could work with it to create a fun challenge designed around Parcour.

On Top of that, i think there is nothing wrong with restricting some of our other Powers and its even needed to create a challenge possibly.

But the important word is "some". What they did in the Grendel Missions just takes all of what makes Warframe Warframe away, hence not many people like it.

So in certain missions/Bossfights very specific Abilities of ours could be limited/forbidden (Energy Generation or Operators or Modding to a certain extent or Arcanes, etc)

 

If you want to ask how this should be possible, i made a concept some time ago with this approach in mind.

If you read through it, please dont get triggered by the word Thumper just like people did when i first posted this idea because DE failed to create something fun with them 😄 Edit: Oh, and things like the Blast Radius of Rockets etc would definetly need finetuning , but those are just Details.

Anyway, this is the idea:

 

 

well as i said i dont know but in my mind there is few way it might work. First and foremost a major overhaul to damage/hp to everything from warframe/abilities/weapons/enemies need to be done. Then when neither side is one shotting one or the other you can add some indicators like below:

1. Lets say an enemy with hitscan weapon makes some sound or says something before he shoots... so the player knows an enemy from that side is about to 100% hit you in few seconds so you should do something about it... either take cover/go fast and kill it.

2. Lets say an enemy about to do ground stomp aoe like those grineers do some scream 1-2sec before he about to do it... but then again fast paced nature of the game doesnt help here.

I mean who knows man i think im just wasting my time thinking about something that never will change. i might aswell give up on this game.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

8 hours ago, Darklord_Tou said:

So can they make a fair difficulty without changing the movement? well i dont know... No other game have a movement system like this so no other game have done it before. So DE really have to create something new and unique.. but with recent trends of warframe copying system from other games i dont think they can.

Just thinking about this but why not give enemies a better movement system/ai. Like enemy movement 2.0 , where each factions monsters move and hoard differently. Like infested that wall run or climb the ceilings, Or more flying corpus that get around and attack you, or grinned on ground vehicles or riding dolls ect. Imagination is the limit tbh.

[HornedRat]

Again, this problem has been endlessly discussed that at this point its so nebulous everyone's got their own interpretation and suggestions.

Warframe's enemies are bland and provide no real challenge beyond us needing to press a button to melt them out of existence. This will not be remedied by "better AI" as our power creep has gone to a ridiculous point where even if the AI was the best of the best it'd still be irrelevant and quickly killed. Warframes are simply too powerful by comparison.
The movement system is very iffy. Like others have pointed out, the weird bunnyhopping makes for at times frustrating movements and hampers you more than it helps.
The biggest issue is the damage system, and even if we come up for rework ideas, the community will get very polarized regardless of any decision being made.

Honestly at this point I doubt Warframe's gameplay can be salvaged. We're just stuck with a fancy flashy looking casual shooter. Nothing short of a complete rework of the damage system and our abilities to prevent them from being so massively overpowered will improve the current state of the game, and maybe make it be less boring.

[GKP_light]

Il y a 12 heures, Drachnyn a dit :

Difficulty doesnt have to come from how much damage the enemies do to you. Instead it can come from boss mechanics that require precise movement and good positioning. Good bossfights in MMOs are not just damage or health checks, they are filled with mechanics that you need to learn. Obviously this is much harder to design than just increasing numbers.

No, not in warframe.

The game is not at all designe around it ; it is designe around make as mush damage as possible.

We do damage, moove to deal damage,  ... all warframe gameplay is about how to do damage.

And most of the game is designe to fight groups of enemies.

 

As mechanic fight, we have the ropalolyst : in this fight, most of the warframe ability are useles ; so most of warframe should not look like this.

 

What warframe need is to give use more content that need to use the limit of our stuff.

Edited February 26, 2020 by GKP_light

[Drachnyn]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb GKP_light:

No, not in warframe.

The game is not at all designe around it ; it is designe around make as mush damage as possible.

We do damage, moove to deal damage,  ... all warframe gameplay is about how to do damage.

And most of the game is designe to fight groups of enemies.

 

As mechanic fight, we have the ropalolyst : in this fight, most of the warframe ability are useles ; so most of warframe should not look like this.

 

What warframe need is to give use more content that need to use the limit of our stuff.

First of all I do agree that the constant ability immunity from ropa, exploiter and the likes is not the way to go. Liches on the other hand are kinda like bossfights and are not striaght up ability immune.

I wouldnt say that warframe is always only about doing damage. For a long time CC has been important in the game and there is a surprising amount of mission that dont require you to kill enemies.

I dont agree that we need content to test just test the limit of our builds, that just sounds like more bullet sponges.

[CaptainMinty]

The insinuation that our mobility makes it impossible to have a game be difficult is insane. DOOM would very much like to talk to you about that one. The problem is that enemies haven't adapted to our abilities. They're still the same enemies we fought when the game was first made. Sure there is more variety, but they're basically the same enemies. The decent enemy design is saved for some bosses, and not all of them are decent. My favorite is Exploiter. I love Exploiter. I'd say Exploiter is by far the best we have.

The point though, is that our enemies all basically have the same things they do. They wander around in a simple patrol, waiting for us to come murder them. They aren't doing much otherwise. They need to be better at combating a highly mobile target. The terrain should be reworked to aid them in this regard. Ships should have better internal defense systems to help combat us. We're a know force that can arrive in a moment's notice. And we are exceptionally deadly. Because we spend so much time as an infantry target, there should be better internal defenses like more gates, ambush points behind "Friendship doors", turrets and turret emplacements. More personnel in the ship.

For more personnel, I'd like to see workers. Actual mechanics and technicians working on ship systems and if we catch these guys off guard, they have a wrench or bolt to a nearby armory or weapon rack to get a rifle or handgun for self defense. They'd be armed already if we set off alarms and they'd have defensive positions already set up, like portable cover or a makeshift turret. These ship personnel would be able to grab a random weapon too. Though more heavily weighted to a simple primary, sometimes one could pull out a heavy weapon like a flamethrower or a rocket launcher. Just to spice things up. It'd depend entirely on the closest weapon rack or armory.

For the Corpus, they need suits. Much like the Vital Suits of the Lost Planet series. Armored beasts of weaponry. If the Corpus have better technology than the Grineer, then I expect them to have better war machines than the Grineer, albeit fewer of them due to the sheer size of the Grineer. Energy weapons should be much more deadly than they are currently. I'd like to see the Corpus have just plain better equipment. Plus, for some reason, personal energy shielding is leagues weaker than traditional armor. What is the point of utilizing energy shields if physical armor is better than it? This is a significant problem that needs to be fixed. Corpus should work around their heavy suits. Mechanics would be able to weld and replenish the armored hull of their armored suits and their shields. The suit however would not have unlimited energy ammo, and should run out and need replenishing from a nearby ammo station. A mechanic would take a depleted ammo cell to the station and have it replaced by another while the depleted ammo cell is recharged. Should the mechanics be killed, the suit should be perfectly capable of just absolutely punching everything it can. However, because the suit isn't as fast as we are, we can avoid these attacks and attempt to get to the back and kill the mechanics and target the energy cells powering the suit and their ammo cells. Other Infantry could operate around the suit and Nullifiers could instead of having a bubble, provide a frontal nullification shield to protect the other infantry.

For the Grineer, I wanna see them bulk up. Heavier infantry with beefier armor that slows them down. Those guys should be wearing armor that competes with what energy shielding should be. Their heavy armor should make them just as tanky as the lighter energy shields, but make them slower. On the opposite hand, heavy armor is easier to produce than energy shielding an as such, the Grineer have more infantry equipped with heavy armor than Corpus have equipped with shields. Make the Grineer tougher from a frontal assault, but weaker from a flanking attack. Thus giving us reasoning to us our superior speed to our advantage other than just being fast enough to blast them down. But instead to flank behind them so that we get their vulnerable backs. Armor should be localized to parts of the body and have its own health per piece. Once a piece is shattered, then the health of the unit becomes vulnerable. The Grineer should recognize this and stick together in tight squads. If one of them has an armor piece break, then they should back up behind the armor of their squad, and replace the piece of broken armor. They should have a limited amount of spare armor, so that they do not endlessly replace broken armor pieces. Because they are clones however, they could replenish their armor supplies by scavenging from fallen allies. This way, they form essentially firing squads that provide cover for themselves and their allies. Elite units sport better armor, and personal cover that can be deployed to protect their lower bodies. Specialist heavy units like Bombards and Heavy Gunners should be equipped with the best armor and gear a Grineer infantry can have. Personal cover, armor resupplies, medical equipment, and grenades.

Also. The movement system itself is flawed. Endlessly spammed movement can be very problematic considering how free we are to utilize it in any direction. Thusly, the return of the stamina bar. Now hold your horses. This bar would not apply to sprinting or actions like rolling. But instead, it would be a Parkour bar. Parkour actions like bullet jumps, mid-air rolls, double jumps, and aim glides. This would limit our ability to spam these abilities, and also open up pathways for better modding capabilities. Lighter, more caster oriented frames like Volt, Nova, and Ember would have more parkour energy to spend at a time than say Frost, or Inaros. Parkour energy would also regenerate rapidly when not in use. This way, we retain incredible mobility, just now it cannot be spammed endlessly. This would also be a huge buff to Volt's speed as a support ability, as sprinting would not take up parkour energy. Also, bring back wall running. Make it slower than the current wall bouncing, but also make it cost no parkour energy and halt the regeneration of parkour energy. A normal jump should not take up energy either. A normal double jump shouldn't take energy, but halt the energy regen. Allow us to bullet jump so long as we have energy for it. This could mean a frame could bullet jump several times and gain good height. However, balance the energy bar so that not all frames can get two bullet jumps, and make consecutive bullet jumps cost more energy if the ground is not contacted between them. Movement as a whole should be a draw of this game. But the raw freedom of it makes balancing enemies difficult. Giving us short bursts of high mobility gives enemies more chance to combat us, and helps give us the threat of being on the ground and having to position ourselves better behind cover.

 

This is just suggestions, I do think that the freedom of mobility could definitely be fixed. It isn't the bullet jump itself that is the problem in my eyes, but rather the sheer lack of limitation on it, and should a limit be in place, enemies can be better designed to take advantage of that weakness.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

13 hours ago, akrid45 said:

The biggest thing holding warframe back from being difficult is the lack of balance and us just being super OP 

It’s beyond this.  I think it is a fundamental game-design/game engine issue that has further implications tied to it with low-end performance specs for a large part of the player base. Some enemies need to be smarter, faster and more versatile and unpredictable throughout more dynamic environments.

The closest enemy to this was the ORIGINAL manic...and the Gray tick-Orbs that freak out on you in Orb Vallis when you pop their tops.

Sentients will be a hybrid of harder to hit “hitboxes” with a Damage-gating design-crutch.

What we want might be a part of a full rebuild on next-gen.

[GKP_light]

Il y a 2 heures, Drachnyn a dit :

I dont agree that we need content to test just test the limit of our builds, that just sounds like more bullet sponges.

I have a good build, so any target die in 1 hit. It is not funny.

I think that the best time to kill to enjoy the game would be around 1.5 secondes.

Just allow use to start the mission at level 150 would be good.

[-Kittens-]

17 hours ago, Darklord_Tou said:

Warframe difficulty... something that bugging my brain for long time.. Can it be improved and can it be better? Because i think Warframe couldve been the greatest mmo game ever created because it have all the components of it except its mindnumbingly boring gameplay.

Now if you watched many warframe reviews you will see them praising one thing almost 100% of the times and that is its movement system.There is absolutely no other game atm that have a movement system like that. Now if i remember correctly movement 2.0 happened back in 2015 and you might be thinking even after all this years why a game as successful as warframe doesnt have a copy-pasta game which tried to clone its movement system? That is because it might be almost impossible to balance a game around a movement system like this. Which is also why most enemies in game have hitscan weapons.

Now do i think DE will ever nerf/change the movement in warframe? NO... Because too many people praise and like the system and if they try to change it they will lose a huge playerbase. So business-wise it would be a huge mistake.

So can they make a fair difficulty without changing the movement? well i dont know... No other game have a movement system like this so no other game have done it before. So DE really have to create something new and unique.. but with recent trends of warframe copying system from other games i dont think they can.

Conclusion - they will never change the movement system and you will never get a fair and challenging gameplay on warframe.

AvP Gold and 2 had a very similar movement system including bullet jumps and bounce diving, the only thing missing was backflips. Hewretic II also had a similar movement system minus wall latching.

And other companies have made plenty of fair difficulty using similar principles. There's zero original about WF's core mechanics even modding, and that's part of the problem. Taking all the cool things from other games with none of the attendant weaknesses or caveats produces what we currently have.