Warframe Difficulty defenses from community

[(PSN)Qjing]

Now playing Orb Mother from 10 groups are going 9 out. Players die 1 time and go out of the game. before 90 percent of the players cannot lay orb mother on their own, nothing will be more hardcore

[BloodyEy3]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

Also nobody is trying to take your power fantasy away. We want difficulty you can opt in to. Why does everyone not see that

on this my opinion/idea is that with arbitration the whole star chart gets 2nd playthrough. earth starting lvl 50+, you have to complete missions solo before you can play with a squad (taxi not possible) if lvl advance for node/planet is continued it would give max~ lvl 80 starting point (so already double the value) / or start lvl 30+ but double lvl gain per planet

now the question is ? more rewards ? better drop chance ? better reward ? --> if yes its either quicker progression (reach "engame" and powercreep poin quicker) or (+ 1 lvl of powercreep)

thats the problem in warframe the grind/loot based shooter. if its not more rewarding/ efficient to do it, then why do it.

idea for that:

creat game "apart from game" --> you can choose tileset, and enemy lvl and faction, + specific factors for it, but gain no loot --> (maybe depnding on each factions a leaderbord, diffrent settings give diffrent x multiplier, so you can just play got ego so to say) --> doesnt increase power creep. the 0,5% that want compete pve on leaderboards can do it, rest of game stays the same

seems like it fixes everything

Edited February 23, 2020 by BloodyEy3

[Ham_Grenabe]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Better ai can be it's des choice to add it in game. In regards to how or what type or such it's up to de as they have ignored and of not payed attention to alot of feedback given on this. 

Also nobody is trying to take your power fantasy away. We want difficulty you can opt in to. Why does everyone not see that

Better AI cannot exist in a vacuum. No amount of better AI matters if we can delete the enemy with that great AI before we even see them.

If we want better AI, everything else has to change too. 

[MPonder]

That's why the game need to be redone, Warframe 2.0.

Scaling is horrible and enemies are boring. New enemies, better bosses, charge star chart, tons of weapons for nothing.

The game is broken and can't be fixed with little charges.

[akrid45]

1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Better ai can be it's des choice to add it in game. In regards to how or what type or such it's up to de as they have ignored and of not payed attention to alot of feedback given on this. 

Also nobody is trying to take your power fantasy away. We want difficulty you can opt in to. Why does everyone not see that

No better AI won't do S#&$ and opt in difficultly won't do S#&$ with the current lack of balance of anything 

Please explain how better AI will stop them from getting killed by all the room clearing, map nuking, cc spaming frames and weapons we currently have? 

And if not u can easily just spam melee and kill everything instantly aswell. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by akrid45

[Ayvuir]

This is the main warframe issue for years, but looks like DE don't want/can't do anything about it. I really like warframe, but at any point you will realize that there's nothing to do besides grinding.

We need options of content for all playerbase and not force us all to play the same easy mode forever. I think many players are asking for more difficulty for a long time now, be it a new hardcore RAID or whatever, we deserve at least some options. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

28 minutes ago, akrid45 said:

No better AI won't do S#&$ and opt in difficultly won't do S#&$ with the current lack of balance of anything 

Please explain how better AI will stop them from getting killed by all the room clearing, map nuking, cc spaming frames and weapons we currently have? 

And if not u can easily just spam melee and kill everything instantly aswell. 

Give me a moment I'll link you to a plethora of threads with me explaining my reasons and personal opinions on balance and etc also calm down kid no where did I say that we don't need balance 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Better AI cannot exist in a vacuum. No amount of better AI matters if we can delete the enemy with that great AI before we even see them.

If we want better AI, everything else has to change too. 

^ read up

[Ham_Grenabe]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

^ read up

And I’m saying that doing all of those things renders Warframe game into a fundamentally different game. A completely different experience.

Warframe as it is and Warframe with better AI and honest difficulty and meaningful choices and various forms of balance would not resemble each other.

We’re seven years in now. It would make more sense (or at least be easier) for DE to start from scratch with a new IP.

[SilverRook]

just rework the entire damage model already.

This is the only way to address the out of control powercreep.

Its the elephant in the room and all kinds of melee 3.0 and buffs and nerfs aren't going to make a difference.

Bullet jumping ruined the speed of the game and powercreep has ruined the difficulty.

 

[BloodyEy3]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb Ham_Grenabe:

Better AI cannot exist in a vacuum. No amount of better AI matters if we can delete the enemy with that great AI before we even see them.

If we want better AI, everything else has to change too. 

exactly !!

first step. "balance" game --> which at this state is easier done if all is scrabbed and put together from 0.

mods amplifieng base stats need to be flat, so all weapons/warframe have a "baseline" from mods --> way easier to balance dmg (from oneself and enemies) as the top 5 weapons dont deal 1mio dmg while the bottom 5% deal 500dmg (respectivly survivablity of few warframes (inaros, nidus) aswell as the other side of it)

crit system has to be reworked (if a dead body can only be looted once ? how can a crit crit twice ?) --> this aswell as the combination for crit dmg multiplier (mods) creat the rediculous dmg --> more focus on enemy "weakspots" (hittin weakspot always "crits") so max red crit (with crit+ weakspot+ vigilant set)

melee: (as the idea above, high single target but shouldnt be 5m aoe punchthrough that can 1shot near everything)

after that the ai stuff or additional "mechanics" to enhance ur own dmg/ lower dmg enemy takes if not used.

vor 27 Minuten schrieb akrid45:

Please explain how better AI will stop them from getting killed by all the room clearing, map nuking, cc spaming frames and weapons we currently have?

bandaids are atm --> invcibility, status immunity, cc immunity, nullifiers, ancient disruptors, acient healers, energy leeches eximus. So till the rest is figured out apporietly just add more enemy types of them. (the corpus hovershoes guys are trieng to do that.. but their effect doesnt work well enough, most of the time they are instantly dead same as eveything else so rip that "effect") --> so back to 10 lines up and start at first step.

 

but then again what happens if DE doesnt bring out new weapons, new warframe, new primed in 6 month. just 6month balance (~4 month no updates, then balance mainline and 2month of smaller patches adjusting and fixing stuff) and after that they can start working on new stuff and keep an eye on adjustments ~ 8-10 month till we see the first new "content".  ---> everyone would dislike that. (even more if at the end its just halfassed, 90% scrapped stuff, thats full of bugs and "not thought of" game breaking synergies.

Spoiler

main player population is driven by grinding content, not for gameplay itself and often the "hidden" factor for i want more diffiuclt missions is "more difficulty = more rewards, or higher drop chance, or better rewards"  --> they ask for it so grind takes less time, which leaves them in need for new content quicker.  So thats basically warframe updates over the years. Just cheer amount of arcanes you can farm up in a day, the focus gained while farming arcanes. that higher lvl enemies give such redicoulus amount of affinity (which doesnt represent their difficulty at all). the only thing that basically stayed the same is standing (which not really as you can farm standing, just can turn in a max amount depending on mr)

vor einer Stunde schrieb MPonder:

That's why the game need to be redone, Warframe 2.0.

sadly there is no other option to change it otherwise. since all factions need to weighed and balanced around our own faction (or our own factions needs to be balanced around the enemy factions.

and even if there was the disparity of solo and squad is still there and will always be there. a well rounded squad has no downsides, only strengtheing each other. so how can the game be difficult in that situation. unless squads get some minus factor besides "more spawns", which in a loot oriented game is even sth positive.

so now squads would need roles, and auras cant stack anymore. for each additional member after first you get 5% less base stats (less surviavlity, weaker abilites, less dmg)

--> this would mean rip new players, they wouldnt get inivted to any squad as they drag team down even more, so they gotta play most stuff solo which is way slower then squad (or go together in new player squads <mr 6 no 5% tax)

 

the more i think about this topic the more problems arise..... (too many variables, to have an easy fix X answer for balance)

 

[Fallen77]

Le 22/2/2020 à 17:25, Corvid a dit :

Considering that I've seen these exact arguments used several times, not really.

Me too, but that doesn't take away from the fact that basing an entire post around 2 arguments specifically chosen, while failing to mention any of the arguably possible solid counterpoints (at least in OP, didn't read thread yet) is fairly weak

[Darklord_Tou]

Warframe difficulty... something that bugging my brain for long time.. Can it be improved and can it be better? Because i think Warframe couldve been the greatest mmo game ever created because it have all the components of it except its mindnumbingly boring gameplay.

Now if you watched many warframe reviews you will see them praising one thing almost 100% of the times and that is its movement system.There is absolutely no other game atm that have a movement system like that. Now if i remember correctly movement 2.0 happened back in 2015 and you might be thinking even after all this years why a game as successful as warframe doesnt have a copy-pasta game which tried to clone its movement system? That is because it might be almost impossible to balance a game around a movement system like this. Which is also why most enemies in game have hitscan weapons.

Now do i think DE will ever nerf/change the movement in warframe? NO... Because too many people praise and like the system and if they try to change it they will lose a huge playerbase. So business-wise it would be a huge mistake.

So can they make a fair difficulty without changing the movement? well i dont know... No other game have a movement system like this so no other game have done it before. So DE really have to create something new and unique.. but with recent trends of warframe copying system from other games i dont think they can.

Conclusion - they will never change the movement system and you will never get a fair and challenging gameplay on warframe.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Darklord_Tou

[Drachnyn]

Difficulty doesnt have to come from how much damage the enemies do to you. Instead it can come from boss mechanics that require precise movement and good positioning. Good bossfights in MMOs are not just damage or health checks, they are filled with mechanics that you need to learn. Obviously this is much harder to design than just increasing numbers.

[Oggyswe]

The problem with difficulty in warframe is that every attempt made for it have been heavily criticized. 

 

For example nullifiers added a very real threat to alot of builds and warframes back in the day but now they have just become a slight inconvinience. 

[akrid45]

The biggest thing holding warframe back from being difficult is the lack of balance and us just being super OP 

[Graavarg]

When I saw the header I immediately intuited that "Warframe's Greatest Strength" implied the so-called community/player base.

As in "Warframe's greatest strength is also its biggest weakness".

[Lazarow]

DE just gave us overpowered gear where we can melt anything, they made a big mistake giving ability mods majoy buffs like 30% should be 10% so its small buff, Yes I am saying nerf everything we have and that way things are more challenging but at the same time people would stop playing warframe then because of heavy rng and lack of updates, An update every few months is not content, weekly changes/challenges/events would be good to have but they dont do that so I have no reason to come back to it. There is sortie yes but I have good enough rivens for myself and dont need anything else from that table. Nightwave is a good direction but also they need to do mini-lore stuff and bring back old operations like the really old operations so players can feel the world of the game not just grind this, kill that, that is boring and over time you are just finding yourself pressing only a few buttons to kill a whole room. 

I am going to mention and I couldnt care if it is offensive to compare games but Destiny 2 has weekly updates with the world changing bit by bit as the season progresses, yes you need a season pass for full enjoyment but some is free. I mean DE can make a battlepass for plat and that would be okay as long its reasonable like 200p. frame is a good game but it lacks interactions between the player and the game world which ultimately makes the player feel alone and meaningless. Example is I keep farming things, but for what? Does anyone need saving are the tenno in trouble and we need to prepare or some other reason? Being able to slice enemies easily in any node ist really meaningful to me, I want the ingame characters like Darvo and Simaris to motivate me to do things and feel like my actions make a diferance to the world of warframe and with those actions I help out the tenno cause.

I am also going to say that lore is horrible because we have to wait a year or mroe for they to make the quest while also provideing other content. But I think lore and main quests are key to a good game and warframe developers have not bothered to finish the quest lines. I can accept if they were realeasing quests for dlc like content but we are talking about the MAIN game story, and its not done after many years

[Yamazuki]

35 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Difficulty doesnt have to come from how much damage the enemies do to you. Instead it can come from boss mechanics that require precise movement and good positioning. Good bossfights in MMOs are not just damage or health checks, they are filled with mechanics that you need to learn. Obviously this is much harder to design than just increasing numbers.

Those games also have limited movement, which is why good positioning is actually necessary. If those games had the movement of Warframe, all those boss fights would be easy due to no cool down on movement and even being able to attack while doing some movements.

[Darklord_Tou]

22 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

When I saw the header I immediately intuited that "Warframe's Greatest Strength" implied the so-called community/player base.

As in "Warframe's greatest strength is also its biggest weakness".

yes that was once the case but i dont think it is anymore... i mean sure there are alot good in the community but also alot bad... so just like every other community.

[DarkSkysz]

EVERY SINGLE TIME, DE try to increase difficult of something it starts raining cry babies to force they change it back to their favored childish level of difficult.

See railjack? A lot of topics about enemies being bullet sponges, being too difficult, getting one shot by them and blablabla...

[(PSN)yo_rookiEH]

i agree with you that wf movement/combat style is a defining factor vs other games, whether or not its a core concept that hinders or elevates content from a devs pov im unsure but id like to hear their views 4 sure. tab-targeting vs freestyle combat has long been a positive also. its difficult to implement thats general knowledge. "new world" (i believe) mmo upcoming from amazon gaming is taking a similar route from what i just read today actually. and were talking legion volume raids plus enemies lol...not just 4 players or our game will crash. well see how it works for them. getting to my long winded point i think wf limit on players in a given instance is what i see as a big issue in content creation. ive always wanted to do a raid with 50 other warframes...how badass would that be!? especially with railjack ur talking phenomenal space battles. who fights a war with just 4ppl? 😁 wf unique parkour n non lock on fight style is a plus 4 me 4sure but like a above comment alluded to i think theyve got other bigger issues like lore n cinematic quests n boring dead zones between updates that r only getting worse (tho pc should be updated this week), that if mitigated would help greatly. ppl r used to melting thru wf, its a part of the game n changing it changes wf itself (tho id personally like challenging content u actually die in n have to really try to complete but its not happening).

[ShortCat]

Till this day I think movement 1.0 had superior design (minus coptering). My reaosns are:

• It was more fluid and natural. Wall running and responsive. Wall hopping looks stupid and is unresponsive due to the defined hop distance, if you climb a wall slightly sideways to an entrace and try to reposition yourself, your Frame will jump from one side to another.
• Old tilesets till this day do not support movement 2.0 as on some ledges Frames will bump their head against it and not climb up as they used to do.
• It is harder to create secret rooms, which require skill to reach. Just like the old secret rooms in the Void.
• Universally high mobility makes it difficult to design maps with certein mission time in mind.
• Universally high mobility makes it harder for AI to threaten the player.
• Universally high mobility limits possible Frame archetypes, as mobility cannot be the outstanding Frame feature. Mobility based skilles are less usefull in kits in general.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

When I saw the header I immediately intuited that "Warframe's Greatest Strength" implied the so-called community/player base.

As in "Warframe's greatest strength is also its biggest weakness".

I feel like the community is worse but at the same time it's only the reddit and forums which is just a vocal minority 

[Graavarg]

28 minutes ago, DarkSkysz said:

EVERY SINGLE TIME, DE try to increase difficult of something it starts raining cry babies to force they change it back to their favored childish level of difficult.

Yes, though the big question is why?

Is it because they can't handle it, can't solo it anymore, because they would need to make an effort and adapt to it (build- & equipment-wise)?

Or maybe because it would interfere with their current farming projects?

Or that they just hate change? Because Warframe was much better in 2014/2015/2016/2017/2018/2019 (take your pick), when Tennos were still real Tennos, space-mom watched out for everyone and all the stuff in the game could be handled easily enough...

Because their Smeeta suddenly starts dying in-mission, and that is just too horrible to contemplate?

Because they feel entitled to all the loot but it takes too much effort to get it, and hey, remember, they also have a real life?

Because they bought a Prime Access once and that sure gives them the right to dictate how the game should work? And if DE doesn't do what they want they are going to leave and neverevereverever again buy anything in Warframe (ha!).

Or maybe because DE is hellbent on destroying Warframe and their strategy is to truly and always try to take a step backwards, and of course you need to step up and to call them out in order to save Warframe? (Yeah, assumingly we are even talking about the really-real world here).

'Cause this is how it sounds on the forum...

Edited February 26, 2020 by Graavarg