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All the quests before the Second Dream suck


(XBOX)Vamma Takayn
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I Love Warframe do not get me wrong. Warframe is one of the most BA games I have played. I would have to say anything from the second dream moving on is phenomenal. I love it. However, there are quite a few underlying problems that can't be argued or ignored. the biggest one is the first half of the game and why its boring.

Lets start with the amazing things Warframe has done.

Open worlds-I like them I really do. I am excited for planes of Diruvi, I honestly like POE, I like Fortuna. I like fortuna much more than I like POE mostly because POE has a heavier grinding element to it. The bounties have good rewards for what you get from it. end game tier melee weapons, and kit guns. and I like that they are beginning to do quest lines through them. I like when they release these open worlds they add elements that are both good for incoming players and veteran players so there is always something to do which has been their primary goal of the open worlds.

K-drives-  are a fun aspect of the open world game mode. as a newer player it can be a bit of a walk but the missions but obtaining the k-drive with the first quest in the open world is nice as it can help lower level players enjoy the content of the POE.

Boss fights- the look so amazing. can be challenging, but look amazing. the exploiter orb is my favorite boss fight mostly because it doesn't matter nearly as much as your build the amount of preparation or the number of members in your squad if needs to be done on solo it can. and I like that it yields the highest rewards. its in my opinion that is the first boss fight that feels like a boss fight and I don't mind so much doing it over and over, because you look so beautiful when taking it down. I also like when you beat a big boss its not like you walk out with nothing you always even if you have 10 of them you still walk out with something of value that you can do something with. the boss fight gives you a trophy and a sense of victory because of this.

Tile sets of Jupiter and fortuna and POE- absolutely love the attention to detail, the uniqueness of the feeling of the land scape, the art, just gorgeous for a free-to-play game.

The towns- the towns are one of my favorite places because of the number of shops you visit. I like that events are done out of them. and that their are rewards for completing the events. you get to see the people and locals and you do get a sense that you are protecting people and making a bit of difference a feeling Warframe did not have before.

Customization of character- You cant convince me otherwise this game has the best customization mechanics I have seen. they are amazing. any color I want, any skin I want all 100% free! even at early stages of the game.

Movement Mechanics are completely exceptional- Bullet jumping is one of the best mechanics I have played and has allowed me to really enjoy 3rd person shooters, as before I only really enjoyed 1st person shooters.

You literally are a super hero in the making- The creativity behind the ability mechanics allow you to be Batman, superman, and although not identical, the abilities and feeling you get using abilities are truly exceptional making the game absolutely fun and definitely worth trying out. running across water, infecting mass armies, engulphing the field literally in flames, or turning it to an icy tundra only this game grants that feeling of power.

And Now the cons

RNG-Lets be honest how many times do you have to run defection on Saturn to have a near guarantee at harrow? 79 TIMES FOR A NEAR GUARENTEE!! Its literally a 2% chance drop on rotation C which means you have to save 632 squads making sure you save 8 squads before restarting the mission for a near guarantee on the Saturn defection. For Chroma you need to get 8 parts all on their own drop tables from different places which can be dozens of missions before getting a full set, but to get chroma prime all you have to do is run fissure missions of any tier. In other words, the drop tables to basic Warframes suck while their prime variation is so much easier, but the Warframes and their required resources are locked behind planets making it hard for new players to get any variation of play. and as a new player with nothing it takes a long time to get anything. A new player doesn't begin to get this feeling until after starting the second dream quest. because up to that point the player is mostly getting just parts to things not really anything of value and that's mostly because the drop tables are awful (better than D2), but still awful. even if a player grinds out the 12 missions they need to play on the venus assassinate to get a basic rhino they still cant craft him until they get to Saturn. I say Saturn because the resource drop tables from Ceres and Europa have become saturated with loot easily obtained in a single mission of rail jack (which gets unlocked to beginning players that have completed the archwing quest). 

The Quests before the second dream are dull- The limbo theorem isn't a quest. the once awake is not a quest. the new strange isn't a quest. these "Quests" are more like tells. take for instance the "hidden message quest" you are literally told what's happening. You don't see what's happening. The player isn't involved. Lotus is seeing all these images, but you don't. You cant be surprised players are intimidated of starting the game when that's what every thing feels like from the start. We know you can make some cut scene cinematics you have done it before with the second dream. I get you have a lot on your plate and you are a free-to-play-game, but with many players that pay to play to get the prime stuff we want to see these quests get cinematics not just be told the story. if all the quests actually had some cinematics. even if its a small before missions cinematic and after mission cinematic it would break up the early game grind like no tomorrow. most new players if they stop. they stop from burnout because even the quests themselves feel identical to the node after node they just were playing. even the Mask of the Revenant feels like you are being told a story, this one is slightly more involved then other quests, but for the most part you are just told it. We want to see the battles nakfa tells us not just be told about them. "the chimera prologue", the "erra Quest", "the apostacy prologue", all do great jobs at showing us what is happening and because of their duration they really feel like the missing clips we are missing all throughout the beginning of the game 

Checklists feel like work and are boring- The literal beginning of the game is a checklist. Complete Vor's Quest, collect 20 mods, apply 4 mods, upgrade any mod to rank 2 or higher. then beat the specter and leave. then the quest itself is a checklists complete this mission (no breaking cinematic to add context), now complete this mission (no breaking cinematic to add context), yay you completed the quest reward given great you aren't upset, except the first quest you complete has literally no reward. and that's ok because its the beginning but the next 8 quests give you nothing or something that you cant do anything with, or you cant complete until a later date. The reward that pops out of the quest "man of few words" is an exilus adaptor, (not even the amazing Clem himself, just the opportunity to get him as a specter after completing a long weekly 10 minute survival). literally a boring quest where Clem is the only thing keeping you from dozing off. But again the problem is that it becomes a checklis literally so as you unlock planets you begin to feel like nodes just become checks on the checklist that is the star chart.

Credits don't feel like money- Credits which are suppose to be a currency of exchange literally feel like their useless in the stores of the towns. and when they are required to craft items it just makes them feel like a resource meant for crafting then an actual currency. their isn't a section where players can spend credits to get items of values to make the game less grindy. for example if a new player was able to exchange say 100 credits for 1 rubedo it would actually make the beginning of the game feel like you can spend credits to get some resources and the resource purchases would only be for the resources that drop on that planet. In example, earth markets could be found in the relay that would sell resources small health packs and only rubedo, neurodes, ferrite, and detonite ampules. and premier bp's for sale would include say the Hydroid parts. the remaining parts that could be farmed from Vayhek. that way the players wouldn't have to spend all their lives trying to get that 1% chance drop. the game would feel less grindy. if markets offered some items from repetitive drop tables. in fact the only place where credits somewhat feel like and actual currency is in the dojo and market where you use credits to purchase Warframe blue prints, lets extend those to the relays and cities.

Assassin targets feel identical to a capture targets- Sure context is different but method and feel of play they are identical. you go in you shoot the guy and you leave. assassin targets are suppose to feel more like a boss fight. Assassin targets that really break up the game are Vayhek, (with his 2 stage), exploiter orb, lephantis (still has 2 stages), Ropalolyst (not just a point and shoot). but he majority feel like a capture target that's a point and shoot. many of these boss fights could be improved with having different things to be met other than shooting in the match like taking down a pylon, hacking a consul to a turret to shoot the assassin target, maybe strike an enemy until he falls to the ground then hack it to open it up to a mercy kill. but the Sargent is still just a shoot and kill. As time progresses in a way vor and LT Lech Kril are that way too. Just walking Pointing and shooting gets real repetitive if its every planet with no forms of variation to it. Having cinematic at the completion of a junction to introduce the planets main assassin villain to a player is one way to add value to the planets assassin target. Another at the villains death also helps. The key though is that the clip can be skipped. as its an important feature in all cinematics especially one where you kill the target over and over. but with the listed changes above a player perhaps will lack the feeling of need of assassinating the target over and over again and suffer from burn out.

Archwing Missions Still are awful- the archwing's biggest problem is that its not on the same leveling system as other items. In the attempt to balance the archwing it has continually become more and more unbalanced. my greatest hope was that this would be corrected with the launch of empyrean and some aspects have and others have not. The devs said they weren't going to nerf Itzal and that's what they did. Itzal's first ability went from being a teleport based on energy to Valkyr's first ability (a whip that gradually pulls you to a selected target). the movement mechanics became better, but this is the biggest problem of all. the archwing got a 95% debuff in the rail jack game mode. not outside. Outside modes still work just fine. the thing about rail jack if its suppose to be a capital ship then the players have to have both choices available, to either A) battle ships head on with the rail jack or B) be able to freely move about in an arch wing and kill enemies. currently the crew ships can still target the arch wings, but their bullets don't seek, but lets be real if the arch wings didn't have a 95% debuff they could withstand the crew ships fire and not have any problems and even be able to kill enemies, but that feature is really all but gone. in the Veil the crew ships still target, and there are some ways to evade not having been one shot, but if this route is chosen then you are limited to a few Warframes and archwings. in reality rail jack doesn't allow for game play of any Warframe and any archwing inside rail jack making rail jack less than ideal to level your archwing equipment. rail jack was suppose to solve the lack of arch wing leveling missions that has plagued the game but it hasn't. so until then newer players will still struggle. Don't get me Wrong I love Empyrean. Empyrean is my favorite game mode and everything I wanted it to be. it just failed in an area I didn't think before might have been important. Empyrean Failed archwing and I hope the DEVs make archwings better in this mode.

Conclusion

Every thing before the "Second Dream Quest" sucks really bad, but if you can get past Uranus to neptune Warframe is AMAZING. I would like to note its not any one of these problems that are the sole cause of new players struggling to enjoy the game, but rather a large combination of them. as I continue to inform new players of the game I still deeply inform them this sounds backwards, but Warframe doesn't begin on earth. it begins on Neptune after you literally go through Uranus. Yes, Uranus is the largest Checklist part of the game and I would argue the worst part, right before Warframe becomes the greatest space game. I just want the Greatest space game to be the greatest space game at the beginning not just the end.

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Reworking 5+ year old bosses that reward long since primed frames that have saturated inventories making them super cheap and not a selling point makes them incredibly low priority. Same with ancient quests. Same with ever reintroducing old lore events as quests to fill ingame story holes. Archwing is still due a major revision as it's going to become modular. So it's old mission nodes should be modified. But who knows. It's a game of sand castles built on previous sand castles. They said themselves, they never expected to last this long.  So you can see why it's so disorganized. Don't expect anything but the most current systems to change at all tell a brand new island is developed.

And any kind of money is a type of resource. That's how it works. And no resource conversation has been in our favor. Amber stars, rare resources. If you have so much of what they require, you likely already don't need it. DE wants people playing different nodes to populate the game. Not sitting on say the index and acquiring all resources via credits.

Edited by Firetempest
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The first quests are introduction to the game as well as giving some info on the Frames that came after the Planetary frames. These were expansions beyond getting frames from Boss battles and doing missions for Vaub. We got a piece of lore tossed in with the way Lotus sees things (or doesn't see things fully). For instance, New Strange is still one of my faves as that was how the quest for Chroma was started. It showed us that Chroma was not anything such as we had been introduced to in a Frame before and showed us the Arcane Machine (which I just realized has a Sentient half a head floating in it). We still have not been told whose voice it is we heard in there.

The quest after the Second Dream all deal with the Void Demon in some form and besides them getting choked out by Umbra E....I find not in my taste. I want more about the Frames. More about the Alcolytes that they keep reaching out to the Frames and ignore the Void Demon. More about the cyst and less about the moody child that sits in the back of the ship. The other aspects are isolated and that is something that IF DE can put them together, should feel as though it is a good flow from one area to another. Still one of my favorite places is going into fight Jordas Golem as we go from ground game to space flight. If this can be done in other modes such as breaking CORPUS glass and getting sucked out that we have to do some Archwing til we find an access port to finish the mission, it would give those stand alone areas more connectivity.

You prefer the quests beyond Second Dream....I am into the ones that introduce us to new frames. Same game but we prefer different parts.....and that is totally fine.

 

Cheers 

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1 hour ago, (XB1)DShinShoryuken said:

If this can be done in other modes such as breaking CORPUS glass and getting sucked out that we have to do some Archwing til we find an access port to finish the mission, it would give those stand alone areas more connectivity.

I can get behind this idea.  I like it.  It would also have the nice side effect of making players pay more attention to those breakable glass areas then they correctly do.  

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