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What's the problem with just showing the ephemera with the larva?


(PSN)Hopper_Orouk
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That defeats the entire point of farming for it when Larva farming takes no time whatsoever. But also we'd just have the "issue" of people "needing" to deal with a Lich that has a weapon they don't want just because it has an Ephemera they do want.

 

Also Liches aren't hated on as much as Railjack? Where the Hek have you been since Liches released?

The entire Lich system has had more complaints than nearly any previous change/addition made to the game while the majority of Railjack complaints were about issues that have already been addressed. And even with many Lich issues having been fixed there are still more complaints about then and core design issues with it that people don't agree with.

Edited by trst
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1 hour ago, kwlingo said:

Than they would lower the Ephemera chance %. Be in larvaling phase for 4 hours no ephemera yet. lol

how is that any different than getting the lich with no ephemera and being stuck in the lich phase for four hours? 

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19 minutes ago, trst said:

That defeats the entire point of farming for it when Larva farming takes no time whatsoever.

You know what makes this type of mechanic work for games like Borderlands? the core loop in those games takes no time what so ever. 

That is why people spend hours upon hours grinding out that perfect roll rare McGuffin off that boss in Borderlands or Diablo or whatever. That is where this whole system crashes and burns, it wants to be that addictive long term farm but it's loot cycle was and still is terrible, taking hours upon hours of grind for functionally zero reward. Its like they looked at systems that work and engage players and then just flipped them on their head. 

If the core loop was faster you'd probably see people grinding it for hours instead of either complaining about it or ignoring the fact that it exists. 

Edited by Oreades
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Just now, Oreades said:

You know what makes this type of mechanic work for games like Borderlands? the core loop in those games takes not time what so ever. 

That is why people spend hours upon hours grinding out that perfect roll rare McGuffin off that boss in Borderlands or Diablo or whatever. That is where this whole system crashes and burns, it wants to be that addictive long term farm but it's loot cycle was and still is terrible, taking hours upon hours of grind for functionally zero reward. 

If the core loop was faster you'd probably see people grinding it for hours instead of either complaining about it or ignoring the fact that it exists. 

And in games like Borderlands it has to since not all drops are guaranteed on top of weapon parts being random; it may take no time to kill a boss but it may be over one hundred attempts to get what you want. Where as far as Liches are concerned the Ephemeras have a 1/5 chance of appearing and every weapon duplicate is useful until you get the element bonus on that weapon maxed plus we can choose the weapon before dedicating to a specific Lich and what type of Ephemera they can spawn with.

We're trading more time investment with longer loops in exchange of a better turn out at the end of each loop.

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2 minutes ago, trst said:

And in games like Borderlands it has to since not all drops are guaranteed on top of weapon parts being random; it may take no time to kill a boss but it may be over one hundred attempts to get what you want. Where as far as Liches are concerned the Ephemeras have a 1/5 chance of appearing and every weapon duplicate is useful until you get the element bonus on that weapon maxed 

For the sake of argument removing weapons from the equation, assuming someone is only going for Ephemera. 

thats a 1:5 chance that the Lich will spawn with one and that is an unknowable variable until you commit to the 2+ hour grind. Only after that commitment do you find out if it has an Ephemera at all and then you're still looking at what a 1:10 chance that it has the Ephemera that you're actually after. 

That's a pretty miserable grind for a chance at a chance that you will get what you want. 

2 minutes ago, trst said:

plus we can choose the weapon before dedicating to a specific Lich

Except we aren't really choosing the weapon as much as we are choosing not to accept the weapon that the game RNGd us into It doesn't seem like it at first glance but there is a difference. And that is a very recent concession made because clearly the system they have chosen to implement that has clearly been and continues to be poorly received.

The one thing we have ever been able to actually choose has been the damage type and that honestly feels like they just tacked it on because they'd promised Liches that where tailored to the player and needed something to pay lip service to that initial pitch. 

1 minute ago, trst said:

We're trading more time investment with longer loops in exchange of a better turn out at the end of each loop.

Are we really tho?

I mean we're definitely getting saddled with a significantly longer loop (5-10min for Borderlands vs 2-4hrs for a Lich) frequently for absolutely nothing if we go back to removing weapons from the equation and just focus on Ephemera.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Oreades said:

how is that any different than getting the lich with no ephemera and being stuck in the lich phase for four hours? 

The grind will be grind no matter what. Doing 4 hours of the same capture mission... I'll pass. Then after that another 4 hours for the Lich.

Why if after 4 hour we don't get an ephemera, then we maybe stuck doing one mission the entire day. Then after that 4 hours for the Lich.

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54 minutes ago, Oreades said:

For the sake of argument removing weapons from the equation, assuming someone is only going for Ephemera. 

thats a 1:5 chance that the Lich will spawn with one and that is an unknowable variable until you commit to the 2+ hour grind. Only after that commitment do you find out if it has an Ephemera at all and then you're still looking at what a 1:10 chance that it has the Ephemera that you're actually after. 

That's a pretty miserable grind for a chance at a chance that you will get what you want. 

Except we aren't really choosing the weapon as much as we are choosing not to accept the weapon that the game RNGd us into It doesn't seem like it at first glance but there is a difference. And that is a very recent concession made because clearly the system they have chosen to implement that has clearly been and continues to be poorly received.

The one thing we have ever been able to actually choose has been the damage type and that honestly feels like they just tacked it on because they'd promised Liches that where tailored to the player and needed something to pay lip service to that initial pitch. 

Are we really tho?

I mean we're definitely getting saddled with a significantly longer loop (5-10min for Borderlands vs 2-4hrs for a Lich) frequently for absolutely nothing if we go back to removing weapons from the equation and just focus on Ephemera.

Focusing solely on Ephemeras means focusing on the rarest thing they drop which is automatically going to make any system seem worse. Especially since each failed Ephemera roll is still progressing other weapons until you max out all or at least the ones you use. Or failed rolls can at least be converted for trading. Also the chance for them to have an Ephemera is only a 1/5 chance to spawn and the type is determined by the frame it was triggered with, it's the same as the weapon element.

You're still choosing the weapon you're committing to and the time it takes to farm the Larva you want isn't much time at all and is also time in which you're rewarded with some Kuva and whatever rewards from the node they're on. Like if they line up with a node you need Relics from then they're a side objective that takes seconds to accomplish. And to exclude the weapons from the equation then you're also removing the Larva farming entirely, one mission and you get your chance at an Ephemera.

The reward is more substantial than rewards from other games like Diablo or Borderlands because unless the encounter being farmed has guaranteed drops otherwise you're rolling the dice at getting anything usable or better at all due to their randomized stat systems. With Liches you are guaranteed to get the weapon you committed to or an upgrade to that weapon if you have it already. And even when only looking at them for Ephemeras that 1/5 chance of getting it is still far more likely than getting some ideal drop from a boss in Diablo or BL.

And in the end if the Ephemeras is really the sole concern of farming them and the weapons mean literally nothing then trading is an option. Certainly if farming the Liches manually isn't worth the time to someone then they could resort to any of the several plat farming methods and have a much better time.

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Because if you could see the Ephemera as well as the weapon, there would be absolutely no reason left to actually grind Liches once you had them all, this way, you have no choice but to grind random Liches if you want the Ephemera.

Hardly anyone I know is still bothering with Kuva Liches, it's just another badly thought out, badly implemented trash update designed to lengthen the life of the game by adding to the grind.

Unfortunately for DE, Old Blood together with Empyrean seem to have had the opposite effect, shortening the life of the game for many players.

Simply put, the last couple of updates have been so rushed, buggy and content lacking that people have left the game. Most of my clan is playing either Monster Hunter World, Destiny 2 or. . . Farming Simulator 19.

I kid you not, when people would rather drive a tractor around a field than be a space ninja you know something isn't right.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

IMO, they should at least have an indicator that the Lich will spawn with an Ephemera, but the player still has to know which frame to use in order to get the Ephemera they want. I'm not even after them myself, I just think it'd be helpful for people who do care about them.

That makes no sense 

When you kill a larva with a volt...you know you're getting a lich wih electricity bonus and charge ephemera 

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11 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Lich system is hated on enough

Well not as much as railjack but i digress 

Why not show the ephemera with the lich larva?

Save us time and plat...

Because it will destroy The Warframe economy, drive DE to bankruptcy, and perhaps cause the next Ice Age.

At least, that’s what I keep hearing from the naysayers. 

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9 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

No, it's trash & it gets what it deserve

 

31 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

Because if you could see the Ephemera as well as the weapon, there would be absolutely no reason left to actually grind Liches once you had them all, this way, you have no choice but to grind random Liches if you want the Ephemera.

Hardly anyone I know is still bothering with Kuva Liches, it's just another badly thought out, badly implemented trash update designed to lengthen the life of the game by adding to the grind.

Unfortunately for DE, Old Blood together with Empyrean seem to have had the opposite effect, shortening the life of the game for many players.

Simply put, the last couple of updates have been so rushed, buggy and content lacking that people have left the game. Most of my clan is playing either Monster Hunter World, Destiny 2 or. . . Farming Simulator 19.

I kid you not, when people would rather drive a tractor around a field than be a space ninja you know something isn't right.

Too bad i can't leave the game

I became too attached to warframes like gauss and volt and there is no other game that incorporates super speed like this one 

Even games like dc universe is greedy trash that requires you to pay monthly to even think about getting content 

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10 hours ago, kwlingo said:

The grind will be grind no matter what. Doing 4 hours of the same capture mission... I'll pass. Then after that another 4 hours for the Lich.

Why if after 4 hour we don't get an ephemera, then we maybe stuck doing one mission the entire day. Then after that 4 hours for the Lich.

This is what I don't get about people just falling into the notion that now you'll be looking at two four hour grinds instead of suggesting a better overall system. 

Tho respectively speaking if you are looking for a specific Ephemera a 4hr grind before the 4hr grind would still be preferable to a successive 4hr (1:5 so could be upwards of 20hrs of grind before you even see an Ephemera and with like a 1:10 chance for a specific ephemera, I dont' even` wanna think of the time breakdown for that) grinds with no reward. 

The whole Lich system is just not an enjoyable loop and needs to be stripped back to the studs and rebuilt from the ground up.

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16 hours ago, -AiLuoLi- said:

Because Ephemeras are achievement based, don't you love basking in the sweet sense of accomplishment when you finally get the ephemeras after defeating rngesus?

True achievement based rewards would be far better (stay in arbitration, defeat X boss with Y stuff), instead DE would rather put cosmetic rewards behind RNG as a way to get players to keep playing bare bones content (like kuva lich) to get more runtime out of it while they choke on their aspirations for future content.  

 

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16 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

True achievement based rewards would be far better (stay in arbitration, defeat X boss with Y stuff), instead DE would rather put cosmetic rewards behind RNG as a way to get players to keep playing bare bones content (like kuva lich) to get more runtime out of it while they choke on their aspirations for future content.  

 

Putting them behind a literal achievement would create just as many problems as current rng methods do.

Make them too easy and people continue to complain that the game has zero difficulty. Too hard and people complain that they're "literally" impossible, which considering a lot of people still have this mentality towards unveiling Rivens the bar for "too hard" isn't high at all. Making them something monotonous (do x y times, like people expected for the Eidolon Ephemera) then you do get the guarantee of eventually getting it but you still need to slog through a lengthy grind as you would currently; it's the classic issue between token vs rng drop systems.

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