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@DE, Ash's Blade Storm must get a rework!


Aohira
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So... Since I joined the game 2 years ago I have been using Ash as my main warframe for almost all the time (38.5% currently) and I have come through many things with him, so now I have a lot of things to say... His 1st ability is almost useless without an augment, that's why there's no reason to use it if we mod for another things. His 2nd ability has very low duration, which is getting even lower if we build for Blade Storm, so the synergy behind these two is under a real question of efficiency. His 3rd ability has no uses except for spy missions to bypass something. It's absolutely pointless to use it while Blade Storm is active, it just locks Ash in one spot while his Smoke Bomb's duration ends leaving Ash potentially dead after the animation ends.

A separate paragraph goes to Blade Storm. Honestly, I made 1h26m run with 298% strength and 8.92secs of Smoke Screen with no arcanes just to estimate my survivability opportunities with almost basic duration and almost maxed out Blade Storm which resulted in my death even though I am very good at marking my enemies. The Blade Storm in its current state is bad and really awkward to use. Moreover, this ability is very slow crowd killer compared to almost any weapon, not even talking about warframes. I feel like my Umbral forma I put into Ash can't payback itself... Blade Storm is pretty much the hardest ability in the entire game to use, nevertheless it can deal hundreds of thousands of slash damage, there's no point to use it, our weapons outdamage it easily. Such an ability should be something special, not a middle-effective weapon with 50m range... Besides, DE, you have nerfed the pure damage this ability used to deal by changing it to a slash one, which made it ineffective against lots of enemies. Again, this ability can't be improved my elemental mods, unlike Mesa, Excal and etc. Keep in mind, Saryn is capable of destroying the entire map of enemies, no matter what faction they belong to. Mesa can have the same job done... SO, I hope that you got the thing, DE, so now let's proceed to my rework ideas.

There are only two things that should be changed in this ability - damage and how is it dealt. Starting of with the damage, I have to say that right now you can get around 80000 of slash damage with the help of the arcanes, statsticks and etc. Well, 80 thousand damage from a single marks sound great, but some enemies get around 3 thousand instead of that. What I recommend is to get the true damage back (and maybe divide it between three clones). Let's say like that: I've got 320% strength in my build with steel charge and coaction drift which results in 11478,4 damage. With the help of the Venka Prime I'm able to get this multiplied by 13, so it's 149,219.2 damage from a single mark. And the idea is to either divide it by 3 so that we can deal this damage a bit longer, or leave only one clone for one enemy with this (crazy) damage. Next let's talk about how this damage should be dealt. First of all, forget about joining Blade Storm, that's pointless. Second, I really liked the idea behind Ember rework so that she now spends some energy PER enemy. That's a really good idea which should be used on Ash as well. When you cast Blade Storm, all the enemies in front of player will be marked for 0.5 second, another half of a second goes to all the enemies behind player. Of course this process should be dynamic and satisfying. The range should stay the same. What enemies will get marked? All of them in your range except for those who are hidden by walls and doors. The energy spent for 1 enemy should remain 12, so there's a point to get efficiency and duration in your build to reduce its drain. How are they going to be marked? This will start from the enemy which is the closest one to your aim dot finishing with the enemy right behind it. If Ash has not enough energy, only the closest enemies will get killed. An animation is another hard question. I can suggest some ideas.

1) No marking is required, clones will start to teleport to enemies and kill them all at the same time.

2) Enemies should be marked firstly, after that you should activate Blade Storm again to start killing enemies.

3) Holding the ability while it's being cast will result in you joining the party (because why not) with one exception - Smoke Screen will stop its timer and start it again after the animation is ended.

So, this is it for the Blade Storm, I hope that it will be more satisfying and easier to use, while at the same time not overpowered. Let's have a talk about other skills.

Shuriken. Without an augment this is just a filler ability tbh. I'd recommend to make it like Garuda's 4th so that anything can deal slash damage on the enemies who you cast your shuriken on. Also I'd suggest to make this ability noisy when you hold it so you can make a fake sound to group enemies in one spot for tactical purposes.

Smoke Screen. After casting this should leave a cloud where you can't be seen as well as your teammates. The duration should be something balanced - around 8 to 12 seconds. After that the Smoke Screen timer will start ticking. The cloud can't be moved, but it's affected by duration and range mods. The base range should be 10 meters, like Smoke Screen itself. As for the augment, I have heard really nice idea about Viral Cloud augment which says everything for itself - it'll spread barely visible Viral Cloud in the range of your Blade Storm.

Teleport. Well, it's not. Why do we teleport only to our enemies while in conclave we can teleport to surfaces? That's the only thing I find necessary for this skill.

Also could you please make Ash apparitions not a holograms but a real SHADOWS, whose smoke color will depend on your second energy color?

Lastly I want to point out that Ash is bed both in team and solo (except seeking shuriken build) missions, Nekros's desecrate ability doesn't work after Blade Storm, allies can easily steal your kills as bs is very slow and you can barely hear something while your Smoke Bomb is active, which is honestly bad and irrational. i hope that my rework (combined with other people's ideas) can bring this warframe to an average level of a good team character.

This has been my idea about Ash's rework. I hope that you will notice it, DE, and rework this warframe for the last time. I'm really looking forward to his 2nd deluxe skin and I hope... No, i DREAM that you'll make this rework while deluxe is done. Thank you so much for reading and giving some feedback, I really appreciate it)

Edited by Aohira
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"It's absolutely pointless to use it while Blade Storm is active, it just locks Ash in one spot while his Smoke Bomb's duration ends leaving Ash potentially dead after the animation ends."

Just because I'm not as experienced and seasoned with Ash, this issues is the most absurd, using BladeStorm and being unable to go anywhere else with Teleport is simply unacceptable, this is the one thing that needs to be changed ASAP.

To clarify, I don't mean teleporting into marked enemies to join the Bladestorm, I mean teleporting on any other enemy that isn't marked, if you cast Teleport on a non-marked enemy while Bladestorm has been released (and enemies are getting stabbed by clones) the target is immediately marked and you join Bladestorm.

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17 hours ago, Aohira said:

I want to point out that Ash is bed both in team and solo (except seeking shuriken build) missions, Nekros's desecrate ability doesn't work after Blade Storm, allies can easily steal your kills as bs is very slow and you can barely hear something while your Smoke Bomb is active, which is honestly bad and irrational.

Firstly, to correct you, what you`re asking for is a revisit not a rework.

You have been only playing for two years and you have pointed out the problems with his abilities (especially blade storm) has while other people deny, deny, deny and can`t admit to the probs, I deliberately picked this part to quote so people can see that I`m not the only one saying this.

Some of your ideas are similar to mine, here is a post of that I put up outlining the problems with Ash and the solutions to fix them.

Since you play Ash I`d like your opinion on my improvements for his abilities whether you like them or not, one thing I haven`t talked about is how the ability will consume energy.

Even through this is an unpopular opinion, if I had to choose between dealing high damage with bad handling or vice versa, I`d pick vice versa.

I feel like Ash was nerfed not coz Ash players wanted it to be fair for both sides but coz other ppl that don`t like Ash ask for it, offering no solutions to the probs he had and if that’s the case then that’s is a horrendous reason to nerf a warframe.

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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Well, I couldn't have played more time as I joined that game exactly 2 years ago;) Well, Vexx, I have read your entire post before writing my own, but all the ideas I had belong to me (btw I stated the fact that I've seen Viral Cloud augment on Reddit post from ANOTHER guy, not me). So, in all honesty, I like all of your ideas outside of bs tweaks - this will probably bring old Blade Storm back which will make it busted as Saryn is rn. However, all the other ideas were very cool, especially Since Screen ones, totally like them) As for the Blade Storm (f*ck, is this ever gonna end?;)) I have another idea, which will make it more interesting, but I don't want to describe it a lot. After cast Ash will spawn a cloud with 25m range in which one he can move to any direction. When there are some enemies inside Ash is going hit them with his hidden blades procing slash damage. Anyway, I hope you got the thing, this will be a real Blade STORM. Well, I don't know what to say, if you wanna talk with me about Ash you can ask me whatever you want either here or in a discord) Aohira#6538)

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7 часов назад, (PS4)Vexx757 сказал:

Firstly, to correct you, what you`re asking for is a revisit not a rework.

You have been only playing for two years and you have pointed out the problems with his abilities (especially blade storm) has while other people deny, deny, deny and can`t admit to the probs, I deliberately picked this part to quote so people can see that I`m not the only one saying this.

Some of your ideas are similar to mine, here is a post of that I put up outlining the problems with Ash and the solutions to fix them.

Since you play Ash I`d like your opinion on my improvements for his abilities whether you like them or not, one thing I haven`t talked about is how the ability will consume energy.

Even through this is an unpopular opinion, if I had to choose between dealing high damage with bad handling or vice versa, I`d pick vice versa.

I feel like Ash was nerfed not coz Ash players wanted it to be fair for both sides but coz other ppl that don`t like Ash ask for it, offering no solutions to the probs he had and if that’s the case then that’s is a horrendous reason to nerf a warframe.

Well, I couldn't have played more time as I joined that game exactly 2 years ago;) Well, Vexx, I have read your entire post before writing my own, but all the ideas I had belong to me (btw I stated the fact that I've seen Viral Cloud augment on Reddit post from ANOTHER guy, not me). So, in all honesty, I like all of your ideas outside of bs tweaks - this will probably bring old Blade Storm back which will make it busted as Saryn is rn. However, all the other ideas were very cool, especially Since Screen ones, totally like them) As for the Blade Storm (f*ck, is this ever gonna end?;)) I have another idea, which will make it more interesting, but I don't want to describe it a lot. After cast Ash will spawn a cloud with 25m range in which one he can move to any direction. When there are some enemies inside Ash is going hit them with his hidden blades procing slash damage. Anyway, I hope you got the thing, this will be a real Blade STORM. Well, I don't know what to say, if you wanna talk with me about Ash you can ask me whatever you want either here or in a discord) Aohira#6538)

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On 2020-02-23 at 12:01 PM, Aohira said:

His 1st ability is almost useless without an augment, that's why there's no reason to use it if we mod for another things.

I don't use Ash, but would changing the ability so that mod effects from his melee are added to this (like how some other frame abilities work) improve it's usage? I know I'm basically suggesting a bandaid (actually, that exactly what it is 😕 ) but would that be a decent start?

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@Aohira impressive that you was able to see his problems in such a short time. I know people, who play this game longer than me and they still think that Ash is good. Which is kinda right if you think about today's meta. But his concept overall is crap.

Oh. Maybe you didn't recognize it until now, but look at his stats (especially of his prime version). They are high enough to survive 1h in Abritation with the mecha-set combo, without any use of smoke bomb. And last but not least, use the Prime skin and give at any colour except black. Do you see his next problem?^^

Am 23.2.2020 um 21:01 schrieb Aohira:

There are only two things that should be changed in this ability - damage and how is it dealt. Starting of with the damage, I have to say that right now you can get around 80000 of slash damage with the help of the arcanes, statsticks and etc. Well, 80 thousand damage from a single marks sound great, but some enemies get around 3 thousand instead of that. What I recommend is to get the true damage back (and maybe divide it between three clones). Let's say like that: I've got 320% strength in my build with steel charge and coaction drift which results in 11478,4 damage. With the help of the Venka Prime I'm able to get this multiplied by 13, so it's 149,219.2 damage from a single mark. And the idea is to either divide it by 3 so that we can deal this damage a bit longer, or leave only one clone for one enemy with this (crazy) damage. Next let's talk about how this damage should be dealt. First of all, forget about joining Blade Storm, that's pointless. Second, I really liked the idea behind Ember rework so that she now spends some energy PER enemy. That's a really good idea which should be used on Ash as well. When you cast Blade Storm, all the enemies in front of player will be marked for 0.5 second, another half of a second goes to all the enemies behind player. Of course this process should be dynamic and satisfying. The range should stay the same. What enemies will get marked? All of them in your range except for those who are hidden by walls and doors. The energy spent for 1 enemy should remain 12, so there's a point to get efficiency and duration in your build to reduce its drain. How are they going to be marked? This will start from the enemy which is the closest one to your aim dot finishing with the enemy right behind it. If Ash has not enough energy, only the closest enemies will get killed. An animation is another hard question. I can suggest some ideas.

In theory a good idea. But I think it will turn Ash into a spam4towin frame. Main problem is that with a high range and max. efficiency build he will still have enough damage left to kill the whole map. 

Am 23.2.2020 um 21:01 schrieb Aohira:

Shuriken. Without an augment this is just a filler ability tbh. I'd recommend to make it like Garuda's 4th so that anything can deal slash damage on the enemies who you cast your shuriken on. Also I'd suggest to make this ability noisy when you hold it so you can make a fake sound to group enemies in one spot for tactical purposes.

Nothing against it. Useful and powerful.

Btw. his augment is useless too. Look at his passive. Blood-ticks ignore already armor. XD

Am 23.2.2020 um 21:01 schrieb Aohira:

Smoke Screen. After casting this should leave a cloud where you can't be seen as well as your teammates. The duration should be something balanced - around 8 to 12 seconds. After that the Smoke Screen timer will start ticking. The cloud can't be moved, but it's affected by duration and range mods. The base range should be 10 meters, like Smoke Screen itself. As for the augment, I have heard really nice idea about Viral Cloud augment which says everything for itself - it'll spread barely visible Viral Cloud in the range of your Blade Storm.

Is Ash still invisible (for a short duration), when he leaves the cloud? 

And I love your augment idea.

Am 23.2.2020 um 21:01 schrieb Aohira:

Teleport. Well, it's not. Why do we teleport only to our enemies while in conclave we can teleport to surfaces? That's the only thing I find necessary for this skill.

I agree with you.

Am 23.2.2020 um 21:01 schrieb Aohira:

Also could you please make Ash apparitions not a holograms but a real SHADOWS, whose smoke color will depend on your second energy color?

I'm asking for this since years. But I'm afraid, that we will never get that. =/

Am 24.2.2020 um 14:49 schrieb (PS4)Vexx757:

I feel like Ash was nerfed not coz Ash players wanted it to be fair for both sides but coz other ppl that don`t like Ash ask for it, offering no solutions to the probs he had and if that’s the case then that’s is a horrendous reason to nerf a warframe.

(I don't need to say, that I love Ash, right?^^) I asked for a nerf of his Bladestorm. Ash has turned into a press4towin frame. I just hated it, that everyone judged me, because I didn't used a max. range& efficiency build on him to kill the map.

But I would never say, that I line his current BS more, than the old one.

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On 2020-02-23 at 12:41 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You now have 1 second before enemies will target you after dropping invisibility, so Ash’s low invis duration is no longer that big of a problem.

Yeah this small change is huge for Ash, since his low base duration isn't nearly as risky as it used to be.

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I use Ash to ASSASSINATE Kuva Liches (as opposed to hosing them down with rapid-fire machine pistols or smacking them over the head with a long stick). Still fun, despite all the perceived flaws in his kit. I actually consider some "flaws" to be features.

 

The Blade Storm "hologram" animation and energy color does need some improvements. Just to make him feel more polished. 

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