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Thoughts on Minmaxers?


Ragnafiro
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Out of all the types of Warframe players, the minmaxer isn’t the type I see the community as a whole talk about. Due to the content drought and dissapointing new content as of late, do they seems to mind it when instead they spent much of their time to minmax their arsenal to the perfect scenario where they maximize the profit of their farm then translate well into platinum? I don’t know, I want to hear how you perceive minmaxers, as I have nothing but respect for them to exploit the “balance” DE and the casuls part of the community made.

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i dont see an issue, i do however understand it can be discouraging for some watching random players run though a level with such ease that its absurd.
people optimize their time according to fun and relative to how fast they want to progress (everyone wants to hit that "max level" in any RPG after all)
about platinium trade, at least on pc i dont see an issue due to how decentralized the trade is (since DE fortunately have not made the same disaster other MMORPG's have)

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I suppose you could call me a minmaxer - I just see it as a principle of "bringing the best tool for the job", and making sure that tool is modded out to the best of its ability. I'm not going to run interceptions with Warframes that have no CC, just as much as I'm not going to run captures and exterminates with slow defensive warframes with stationary powers (Frost etc.).

The best times when my minmaxing really pays off is when my builds are taken to their limits when soloing a rank 5 lich - those fights can be quite challenging.

I don't farm for plat via trading.

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MinMaxers to be would be the same Players doing Eidolon/Endurance runs (like 100 - 120 Mins or further) all day. They’re the ones who want every part of their build perfect for Frames they use and Weapons too and be done with it when they reached a limit of the Performance and figure out if it’s top tier or not.

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Minmaxing is something only a particular niche of the player base actually does. About 70% or so of the players I've met are the "appropriate elemental combo" crowd, who like to make sure they can contribute, but don't worry too much about anything else. Another 20% are the meta-heads who usually can't wrap their minds around picking anything outside of predefined setups which have been determined through trial-and-error to be the most efficient means of doing a given thing. Minmaxers are the last 10%, basically defining and redefining the meta and being even more obnoxious than meta-heads themselves if you get them talking about their sacred cows.

If this were a highly competitive PvP game like League of Legends, that balance would be shifted almost exclusively towards meta-heads and minmaxers, because not following them to the best of your ability means not accomplishing anything. However, since this is first and foremost a co-op PvE game, it's the higher end of the effort spectrum that's the least relevant since it basically optimizes all meaningful (i.e, fun) interaction out of the game beyond the memetic "press 4 to win," and generally makes your squadmates salty that they didn't get to flex their own loadouts.

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Causal gamers honestly annoy me.

Yea I get it: you're supposed to be slow and take your time with life cause you only get 1 blah blah etc.

I cant help I move fast. I cant stand when people act like they cant play a game without mics and having friendly banter filled convos etc etc. Like dude I have a job and a life and games are a massive stress relief and time for me to actually be in my own world and move at my pace.

I personally stopped joining leagues/linkshells/guilds/clans because I cant stand how people take 20 minutes to setup a 10 minute raid. They wipe cause they dont take it seriously. I'm glad they can actually have fun while playing but I'm not like that.

When I play warframe I check my mods and equipment, queue the mission, do it, leave and on to the next one. I dont need to talk to anyone to do that.

Like people on this forum talk about how Eidolon hunters are toxic....they're not toxic, this is just the only real efficiency they'll ever see in their lives. So sick of people being slow is all.

Like I said, I choose to be a loner online because it suits my playstyle. 

Sorry for the rant. And I min max because boundaries dude lol. They need to be pushed to become a better player. Like why are people saying level 100 enemies are too much? Theres another 900 levels to reach lol

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Just now, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Causal gamers honestly annoy me.

Yea I get it: you're supposed to be slow and take your time with life cause you only get 1 blah blah etc.

I cant help I move fast. I cant stand when people act like they cant play a game without mics and having friendly banter filled convos etc etc. Like dude I have a job and a life and games are a massive stress relief and time for me to actually be in my own world and move at my pace.

I personally stopped joining leagues/linkshells/guilds/clans because I cant stand how people take 20 minutes to setup a 10 minute raid. They wipe cause they dont take it seriously. I'm glad they can actually have fun while playing but I'm not like that.

When I play warframe I check my mods and equipment, queue the mission, do it, leave and on to the next one. I dont need to talk to anyone to do that.

Like people on this forum talk about how Eidolon hunters are toxic....they're not toxic, this is just the only real efficiency they'll ever see in their lives. So sick of people being slow is all.

Like I said, I choose to be a loner online because it suits my playstyle. 

Sorry for the rant. And I min max because boundaries dude lol. They need to be pushed to become a better player. Like why are people saying level 100 enemies are too much? Theres another 900 levels to reach lol

It'd be so nice if we didn't have to play for hours to actually stretch out limits thougj

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1 minute ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

It'd be so nice if we didn't have to play for hours to actually stretch out limits thougj

I agree. You essentially have to waste an hour and half to actually get some action. I'm already starting to fall asleep until I actually get some resistance from enemies when they actually get some armor.

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Just now, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

I agree. You essentially have to waste an hour and half to actually get some action. I'm already starting to fall asleep until I actually get some resistance from enemies when they actually get some armor.

Me and my friends used to do endurance runs and I would always literally fall asleep within the 1 1/2 2hour mark cause it got boring 

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You need to understand that the game is built to encourage and reward optimal run times, which requires MinMaxing. Just think about it:

For any reward that you want in game you will need to acquire several components which have a random chance to drop from a source that may or may not spawn. This means that you will need to be running the same level or limited set of levels over and over and over, in some cases literally a hundred times or more. So to get the reward you want the very design of the game is encouraging and rewarding you completing a level as quickly as possible and with as little effort as possible so you don't burn out. This requires a maximized build.

For any other mission that you're completing for any other reason there is never an incentive to complete a level slowly that outweighs completing it more quickly. Every reward in this game is about killing as much as possible, as fast as possible, and getting to the final goal as fast as possible. Barring the rare Riven challenge or fringe case, there's just no point slowing down. All of this also requires a maximized build.

People who MinMax their builds aren't exploiting the balance of the game or anything like that. They are literally playing the game in the way the game is communicating to the player to play it. They are playing the game as intended. Obviously there are people who would MinMax anyway, but every inch of this game is just begging for it.

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What is there to say? They exist in every game that doesn't force you down one fixed path the entire time. Even games as chill as Stardew Valley have an entire min-maxing part of their community.

As far as their relation to Warframe though it both isn't remotely hard to min-max and becomes entirely overkill by the time you're halfway there. Currently the entirety of the game's difficulty comes from gear and knowledge checks; meta gear isn't hard to get and an afternoon of wiki research is enough to know most everything that isn't frame specific. And the content available to us caps out far too soon for what our gear is capable of and not a single thing comes close to requiring all of our gear simultaneously, let alone when you get to fully min-maxing all of it.

So they're whatever, really. If people enjoy maxing out their builds to be as optimal as possible, even if there is no practical reasons to, then let them do so.

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The only issue I have is when minmaxers get tired of stomping everything with their octuple forma prime modded theory crafted builds, and start lobbying for this to be the expected minimum around which things are balanced so they can have more chalenge.

Break the game if thats your thing, have builds that take a fortune in plat or hundeads of hours a week to replicate if thats your idea of fun. But dn't start creating a system where that becomes manitory inorder to contribute.

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I let people do what they want, and while I don't consider myself a min-maxer, I have tried to make some weapons that I really enjoy as absolutely strong as they can possibly be. this was before Rivens were introduced though, and now the only way to actually *max* a weapon, to give it the most damage and scaling possible, is to have a perfect Riven, so now trying for every last scrap of damage is kind of impossible, and it's always been somewhat pointless due to how easy low level mobs are anyway.

do whatever makes you happy.

 

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I like to min-max. 8 forma frames with 6 forma weapons and companions...etc.

It's actually a self imposed end game and while its overkill, there is a sense of progress when for example there are threads how rj mobs are sponges and meanwhile I can 1shot 170lv bombards with some builds.

I don't expect the majority I pub with to compete with me, nor do I rush them to unless they're completely leeching (e.g. mr6 Limbo with a lvl 0 weapon in ESO, afk hiding in reliquary room in RJ.)

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