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I missed old itzal blink even after rank 8 tactical intrinsics


(NSW)Katsuro
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Not to mention you can't use the intrinsics where railjack speed really matters: Not to mention all the other places where it's still too slow to matter:

Plains of Eidolon

Orb Vallis

Archwing Interception

And most importantly... Archwing Pursuit where chasing the courier is now a total PITA even more so than it already was.

Edited by (NSW)Sniperfox47
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4 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Not to mention you can't use the intrinsics where railjack speed really matters:

Plains of Eidolon

Orb Vallis

Archwing Interception

And most importantly... Archwing Pursuit where chasing the courier is now a total PITA even more so than it already was.

archwing buffs are universal

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global Blink is definitely considerably slower than Blink was previously, yes. i don't really find 'just holding W' all that exciting, and Archwing Movement is essentially just that, it's not like Parkour where we have many tools to bridge together, we only have 'just move'.
if Archwing Movement was more interesting than just holding a button down.... mind i'm not asking for Archwing Movement to become DDR and be filled with some dumb minigames, that would just feel like a chore.

Itzals' Grapple thing could be good, it just needs some adjustments&buffs to do so. needs a higher Range limit, and to work more like the slingshot that you expect, so that you can use it to accelerate yourself somewhere at pretty breakneck speed. imagine if it continuously continued accelerating the entire time that you were grappling for. so the farther away your target is, the more you accelerate. such as 20m/s/s, modified by Strength. 

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2 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Not to mention you can't use the intrinsics where railjack speed really matters: Not to mention all the other places where it's still too slow to matter:

Plains of Eidolon

Orb Vallis

Archwing Interception

And most importantly... Archwing Pursuit where chasing the courier is now a total PITA even more so than it already was.

If for whatever reason you're forced to play Pursuit over and over, use the Grattler or the Ayanga. Their AoE effects ensure the engine parts of the courier get reliably damaged as opposed attempting to track those tiny weak spots with the extra-horrid projectile-speed-nerfed archguns.

DE sure thought out their nerfs well, eh?

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1 hour ago, RS219 said:

If for whatever reason you're forced to play Pursuit over and over, use the Grattler or the Ayanga. Their AoE effects ensure the engine parts of the courier get reliably damaged as opposed attempting to track those tiny weak spots with the extra-horrid projectile-speed-nerfed archguns.

DE sure thought out their nerfs well, eh?

Can't have anything out performing the RJs, lol

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On 2020-02-25 at 2:04 AM, RS219 said:

If for whatever reason you're forced to play Pursuit over and over, use the Grattler or the Ayanga. Their AoE effects ensure the engine parts of the courier get reliably damaged as opposed attempting to track those tiny weak spots with the extra-horrid projectile-speed-nerfed archguns.

DE sure thought out their nerfs well, eh?

My go to both before and after the nerfs is the fluctus for pursuit. No need to aim, just spam fire in the ships general direction. Don't have the grattler but I'll pick it up and test it out, thanks for the suggestion.

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That was the worst thing which I found when cone back to game few months ago. Now Itzal total garbage. Invis is suck because when you go invisible enemy still shoot your position and even shifting once won’t safe you from crewship 100000000 AoE explosions. Vacuum could be good , but RailJack suck radius bigger and not bugging in rare occasions . And drones are super-duper garbage skillet . Whole the time when I played I never used it, and in very rare situations when I used it, it was definitely useless. I see no point in existing for itzal nowdays.

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22 minutes ago, SpiritTeA said:

Invis is suck because when you go invisible enemy still shoot your position and even shifting once won’t safe you from crewship 100000000 AoE explosions.
Vacuum could be good , but RailJack suck radius bigger and not bugging in rare occasions .
And drones are super-duper garbage skillet . Whole the time when I played I never used it, and in very rare situations when I used it, it was definitely useless. I see no point in existing for itzal nowdays.

just like before, using your Movement Ability to not be in the place you went Invisible in, is definitely a good idea.
Cosmic Crush is useful for picking up loot as an Archwing, you're comparing it to other Archwings. and provides nice CC in Combat, especially since Ice Status is so incredibly useful in Railjack.
the Drones are mostly there to distract Enemies. they can CC some stuff with their Lasers too, but it's mostly a cloud of distraction. though their death Explosions are fairly powerful.

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3 минуты назад, taiiat сказал:

just like before, using your Movement Ability to not be in the place you went Invisible in, is definitely a good idea.
Cosmic Crush is useful for picking up loot as an Archwing, you're comparing it to other Archwings. and provides nice CC in Combat, especially since Ice Status is so incredibly useful in Railjack.
the Drones are mostly there to distract Enemies. they can CC some stuff with their Lasers too, but it's mostly a cloud of distraction. though their death Explosions are fairly powerful.

You are right at all points but it’s also a problem. Invis+blink works only against fighters, with big cooldown on blink CrewShip WILL ALWAYS get you with its rockets explosion. 

Crush can be good CC , but pretty pointless when we have Void Hole, because going itzal in veil nodes for bruising is suicide if you cannot stay perma invisible. The only Archwing I saw outside fighting enemies always was Amesha in veil nodes. So seems like super CC won’t win invulnerability.

And drones distracting yes, threats that you avoiding by pressing 2 -_- It won’t safe you from any AoE aswell. On maximum range explosion radius 257 meters. It’s less than Gratler attack range. Do you hit many enemies with Gratler in AW mode?

Well probably Itzal not that bad for open worlds, but I don’t want use those underdog there, because my frames offer much better utilities. So we need it inly for fast traveling.

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14 minutes ago, SpiritTeA said:

Well probably Itzal not that bad for open worlds, but I don’t want use those underdog there, because my frames offer much better utilities. So we need it inly for fast traveling.

And Itzal is still the fastest Archwing so still optimal tool for fast travel ontop of being good quick looting in open zones as well, it has not lost its place there.

In regards to Railjack we were already informed late last year that Archwing was getting a major overhaul in the future because DE doesn't agree with their current state for Railjack and want to change them so they compliment the mode better. DE doesn't agree with the current state of Archwings for combat either.

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7 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

And Itzal is still the fastest Archwing so still optimal tool for fast travel ontop of being good quick looting in open zones as well, it has not lost its place there.

In regards to Railjack we were already informed late last year that Archwing was getting a major overhaul in the future because DE doesn't agree with their current state for Railjack and want to change them so they compliment the mode better. DE doesn't agree with the current state of Archwings for combat either.

If you want to move fast use Amesha as your archwing and Naramon dash with Zenerik energy to cross the map. At this point it's faster than Itzal since the Nerf.

If you want to be invulnerable to AFK use Amesha as your archwing.

If you want to be able to do Railjack missions and not die in 1 hit use Amesha.

 

Literally the only reason to ever use Itzal any more is for cosmic crush on Eidolons and for cosmic crush while farming razorback APUs...

 

It went from mobility being the only thing archwing is good for in the open world to nothing that archwing is good for in the open world. Unless you're still early on the focus tree in which case you use an archwing and movement in the open world is just miserable.

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54 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

If you want to move fast use Amesha as your archwing and Naramon dash with Zenerik energy to cross the map. At this point it's faster than Itzal since the Nerf.

If you want to be invulnerable to AFK use Amesha as your archwing.

If you want to be able to do Railjack missions and not die in 1 hit use Amesha.

 

Literally the only reason to ever use Itzal any more is for cosmic crush on Eidolons and for cosmic crush while farming razorback APUs...

 

It went from mobility being the only thing archwing is good for in the open world to nothing that archwing is good for in the open world. Unless you're still early on the focus tree in which case you use an archwing and movement in the open world is just miserable.

If you want the fastest archwing for map travel it is still Itzal, that is all I have stated. 

Every other example is irrelevant because as I just notified you, DE doesn't consider their combat/kit designs where they want them to be and are actively changing them as we speak. Their current state is temporary and not where the official designers of this game want them to be for the current state of the game. 

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Just now, Cubewano said:

If you want the fastest archwing for map travel it is still Itzal, that is all I have stated. 

Yes technically you're right. The point is that it's speed doesn't matter, because the only necessary mobility option is the fastest one and there are now much faster options than the Itzal, much less any other archwing.

Just now, Cubewano said:

Every other example is irrelevant because as I just notified you, DE doesn't consider their combat/kit designs where they want them to be and are actively changing them as we speak. Their current state is temporary and not where the official designers of this game want them to be for the current state of the game. 

If the current design is temporary why did they implement it in place of a system that already existed and worked better? They didn't suddenly make other archwings viable in the interim, they just made *every* archwing miserable to use.

 

They're not happy with the state of the game and are redesigning it? Cool. Don't break a ton of other stuff with a shim in the meantime and leave it totally broken for months on end while you figure out your next attempt at fixing it.

 

"Something better is coming" doesn't excuse them breaking it now.

 

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I believe giving blink to all archwings was a good thing however I think removing the spam-able blink from itzal was bad form.  Really the only place I used it was in open worlds why?

Because archwing missions aren't worth repeating once you have the mods (even then their value is questionable) and because with Railgun, recall, a decent railjack, and the damage done by enemy ships in the veil itzal just doesn't really provide anything there.

As far as the hook they replaced blink with... The only thing I find it useful for is playing tennis with thumpers between two players and that's out of pure novelty not usefulness.

 

 

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3 hours ago, SpiritTeA said:

Invis+blink works only against fighters

Crush can be good CC , but pretty pointless when we have Void Hole

And drones distracting yes, threats that you avoiding by pressing 2
On maximum range explosion radius 257 meters. It’s less than Gratler attack range. Do you hit many enemies with Gratler in AW mode?

the Grapple works against anything since you move a large distance. i said Movement Ability, the key word, was Ability.

again you're comparing being inside the Railjack to being outside. unless you're exclusively focusing on Solo Gameplay, this isn't a reasonable comparison at all.
the balance of Railjack Enemies is besides this discussion.

shrug, the Drones shouldn't orbit so close that they're directly in your Camera, but the idea of them as distractions is sound.
256 Meters is plenty large enough to be useful, seeing as the easy mental metric is the Railjack has a Vacuum Range of 150 Meters. so an Explosion larger than the Railjack by a considerable amount.

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10 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

"Something better is coming" doesn't excuse them breaking it now.

 

I'm sorry but what did they break? To my awareness they've only done like two notable changes to Archwing in the remote past which was changing the 1 for Itzal and giving all Archwings blink, most of Archwings function in combat entirely like they have been for ages, just with an overall boosted mobility now that frankly fits them in better for Railjack content.

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29 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

I'm sorry but what did they break? To my awareness they've only done like two notable changes to Archwing in the remote past which was changing the 1 for Itzal and giving all Archwings blink, most of Archwings function in combat entirely like they have been for ages, just with an overall boosted mobility now that frankly fits them in better for Railjack content.

Any semblance of a good time in:

Tridolon hunts...

General Open-World missions...

Archwing pursuit...

Or pretty much anything that gives you a big open space and requires you to move across it, since every archwing is now little better than a brisk walk. 

 

I don't play this game to spend 5 minutes running through huge empty spaces to get from one mission objective to the next, I play this game to actually play those mission objectives.

 

Archwing combat is still useless just like it was before. Removing blink doesn't make archwing more useful for combat. There's a reason why nobody plays Archwing missions, and that's because archwing combat is miserable.

 

What does archwing combat consist of now? Going to the veil, bashing your head into a asteroid for energy, and then ramming yourself into enemies while spamming invulnerability and holding down the trigger for 20 seconds to kill them? Does anybody even play any of the actual archwing missions? Removing Itzal blink and replacing it with a useless tether did literally nothing to improve that.

 

Giving universal blink and removing Itzal blink are not dependent on each other. Universal blink is a great idea, not arguing against it. Removing Itzal blink though took a bunch of mediocre content and made it even worse.

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32 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Any semblance of a good time in:

Tridolon hunts...

General Open-World missions...

Archwing pursuit...

Or pretty much anything that gives you a big open space and requires you to move across it, since every archwing is now little better than a brisk walk. 

 

I don't play this game to spend 5 minutes running through huge empty spaces to get from one mission objective to the next, I play this game to actually play those mission objectives.

 

Archwing combat is still useless just like it was before. Removing blink doesn't make archwing more useful for combat. There's a reason why nobody plays Archwing missions, and that's because archwing combat is miserable.

 

What does archwing combat consist of now? Going to the veil, bashing your head into a asteroid for energy, and then ramming yourself into enemies while spamming invulnerability and holding down the trigger for 20 seconds to kill them? Does anybody even play any of the actual archwing missions? Removing Itzal blink and replacing it with a useless tether did literally nothing to improve that.

 

Giving universal blink and removing Itzal blink are not dependent on each other. Universal blink is a great idea, not arguing against it. Removing Itzal blink though took a bunch of mediocre content and made it even worse.

Tridolon hunts are still going as they always have, as is open worlds, and Archwing's functions in combat was again not particularly shifted by anything DE has done within the past year, mildly improved perhaps by the universal blink but still minimal change.

Your grievances seem misplaced at best if not fully misinformed. 

 

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5 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Tridolon hunts are still going as they always have, as is open worlds, and Archwing's functions in combat was again not particularly shifted by anything DE has done within the past year, mildly improved perhaps by the universal blink but still minimal change.

Your grievances seem misplaced at best if not fully misinformed. 

 

Tridolon hunts are going exactly as before? Tridolon hunts take *substantially* longer since going to retrieve lures takes *substantially* longer. Maybe they're the same speed in a group, but solo? You're kidding me right?

 

Open world is working as it has before. Working does not equal fun. There is significantly more travel time to Open World Missions now. The time to cross the map in Plains of Eidolon has gone from ~6 seconds up to over 20. Per mission that's 4-6 times you're crossing the battlefield to get to objectives, and with each mission that leads to a significant amount of time that's wasted idly coasting along. Minutes. Per mission. Do a hundred bounties? That's an extra hour and a half spent flying around, where you didn't need to with Itzal.

 

Universal blink is a good thing for archwing combat. It's a good thing for archwing movement. Not disagreeing with that. But it's no replacement for the mobility that Itzal blink had.

 

I'm not upset at them giving other archwings blink, hell I'd be happy if they had given *every* archwing the Itzal blink. But taking away Itzal blink and replacing it with this discount bin cousin means adding a significant amount of time to movement between objectives. 

Edited by (NSW)Sniperfox47
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3 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Tridolon hunts are going exactly as before? Tridolon hunts take *substantially* longer since going to retrieve lures takes *substantially* longer. Maybe they're the same speed in a group, but solo? You're kidding me right?

 

Open world is working as it has before. Working does not equal fun. There is significantly more travel time to Open World Missions now. The time to cross the map in Plains of Eidolon has gone from ~6 seconds up to over 20. Per mission that's 4-6 times you're crossing the battlefield to get to objectives, and with each mission that leads to a significant amount of time that's wasted idly coasting along. Minutes. Per mission. Do a hundred bounties? That's an extra hour and a half spent flying around, where you didn't need to with Itzal.

They are still going regardless, longer or not, removing blink did not kill that content and it isn't a proper example of something being ruined. Things taking longer or shorter periods to do is arbitrary, anything can take longer or shorter times to do in this game.

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