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Mag Rework suggestions - or "Recycling the trash"


Scooterboot
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First of all, I personally don't think Mag is actually trash like many people think. I simply wrote something click-bait-y.
Secondly, it's entirely possible that a Mag rework is already underway considering what was shown in the cinematic trailer, but I'm gonna throw together a list of suggestions regardless.

Starting off with one ability at a time:

Passive

Spoiler

Her current passive is rather lackluster, especially considering that Vacuum/Fetch mods are a thing.

So here's my suggestion:
~On shield depletion, all enemies within a 15m(?) radius are pulled towards Mag.

The radius can obviously be balanced as needed. And as for being "pulled" towards mag, my initial thought was that they get ragdolled similar to Pull, but if that turns out being OP (somehow?), then perhaps a simple stagger effect would suffice, with the direction they are "staggered toward" (if that's even a thing) being directed at Mag (because pulling things into melee range can be useful).

Edit: Alternatively, it could push enemies away instead. Either way, the point is to incapacitate enemies and stop incoming fire for at least a brief moment.


1st Ability

Spoiler

Renamed from "Pull" to "Pulse"

This ability is now two-in-one:
~Tapping the cast button makes the ability act as Pull always has.
~Holding the button now targets a single enemy, lifting them in the air in front of Mag, similar to the "Force Grip" ability from the Jedi Knight games. Enemies held slowly take damage and the ability itself drains energy over time. Mag cannot use her weapons while holding an enemy like this, but the enemy's body can be used as a "shield" to block incoming enemy fire. Said incoming fire can damage the held enemy. Releasing the button deals a high amount of damage to the enemy (which should probably scale with how long the enemy was held) and sends the enemy flying forward at a similar velocity to Pull.

Could easily be balanced to hold up a group of enemies rather than just one.

Also held enemies are not ragdolled, but rather stuck in an animation like Bastille.

Name of this ability is tentative and I don't have any better ideas.


2nd Ability

Spoiler

Magnetize

Like the first ability, this one is also two-in-one:
~Tapping the cast button makes the ability function as it always has.
~Holding the button causes Mag to hold a miniature magnetic field within her hands. This field attracts incoming bullets, storing them until the ability is released, at which point said bullets are directed to all enemies within line of sight, dealing boosted damage (affected by Ability Strength). Obviously not unlike the ability Mag performs in the cinematic trailer.

Another thing that would be nice: having the Magnetized Discharge augment already built in, specifically the ability to recast on an already active Magnetize bubble to make it explode prematurely. To me it seems silly that many Warframe abilities require an augment to be deactivated. But that's a discussion for another time.


3rd Ability

Spoiler

Polarize

If I had it my way, this ability would function like it did long before Mag's "most recent" rework. That is, rather than an expanding range, it hits all enemies instantly, nuking practically anything that has shields/armor.

But that's likely not going to happen, so let's just give the current Polarize a face lift:
~Rate of expansion should probably at least get a 50% increase, allowing it to hit enemies faster and generally increasing its range, which would be incredibly helpful for expansive open world areas.
~Rather than only restoring shields, Polarize should also give overshields. Having it grant extra shields per enemy hit would also help increase survivability, though now we're stepping into Hildryn territory.
~For as long as Polarize lasts, incoming bullets are redirected away from Mag, just like Zephyr's Turbulence ability.
~Edit: Perhaps also the ability to "hold" the cast button to charge the ability, which costs additional energy but makes it last longer and deal more damage.

The little "shards" dropped from enemies hit with Polarize can also be absorbed into Magnetize's new hold ability, increasing its damage output.


4th Ability

Spoiler

I have two suggestions for this ability:

1 - "Crush but better":
~Each enemy affected not only grants Mag overshields, but also gives her a small armor buff, similar to Atlas's Rubble passive.
~Each enemy also suffers armor/shield stripping, without requiring an augment.
~Each enemy also suffers from a "magnetically charged" debuff. That is, they are being constantly pulled to the ground, as if their local gravity is increased. They are slow to get up, slow to move, and their guns have a tendancy to "aim low", as in their bullets are being pulled downward.

2 - "Crush" => renamed to "Magnetic Expulsion":
~Changed to a toggle ability. Mag unequips her weapons, resorting to only use her bare hands. Functions like an exalted weapon, except with no actual weapon to speak of. Holding click fires a magnetic beam from Mag's palm that siphons armor/shields from an enemy (also simply damages them if they have neither). Dealing damage to enemies causes them to let off armor/shield "shards", not unlike Polarize. Any and all of these shards created by both this ability and Polarize within a 25m range are pulled toward Mag, which orbit her and grant her damage reduction. Gaining more and more of these shards increases Mag's damage reduction, but also increases the energy drain rate of the ability.
~The shards also damage enemies within melee range.
~While this ability is active, "Gripping" an enemy with Mag's first ability causes them to continuously let off shards until they run out of shields/armor, and casting Pull on enemies causes them to let off shards as well.
~Also while active, casting Magnetize's new hold ability will suck all orbiting shards into the magnetic field, resetting the damage reduction and drain rate.
~Disabling the ability before running out of energy causes all shards to fire off in every direction, targeting all enemies within line of sight.
~Added bonus: While active, Mag's movement animations are changed so that she floats above the ground like Wisp.
~This "weapon" can be modded out with Secondary weapon mods.

 

Because making Mag more like X-Men's Magneto is a must.


TL;DR:
Passive sucks less and grants better survivibility.
Pull has been given two separate functions: tapping the button functions like Pull, holding the button functions like Force Grip.
Magnetize has two functions: tapping works like normal Magnetize, holding makes Mag do the crazy stuff she did in the cinematic trailer.
Polarize is better, plus Zephyr's Turbulence effect during its expansion.
Two suggestions for Crush: one is just better Crush, the other is a detailed idea for an exalted weapon.

Lemme know what you guys think.

Edited by Red_9697
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10 minutes ago, Red_9697 said:

~On shield depletion, all enemies within a 15m(?) radius are pulled towards Mag.

"About to die? How about ALL OF THE ENEMIES COME TO MELEE RANGE." (Yep, that'll end well.)

I like the magnetize hold idea.

What about a Polarize hold that continues it's range?

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2 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

"About to die? How about ALL OF THE ENEMIES COME TO MELEE RANGE." (Yep, that'll end well.)

I like the magnetize hold idea.

What about a Polarize hold that continues it's range?

Well, the point of the passive was that it would at least incapacitate enemies for a moment upon shield depletion. Could easily be changed to push enemies away.

As for Polarize, I kinda felt I was overdoing it with both the first and second ability having separate hold/tap functions, but it could easily be done to Polarize. Holding the button to charge it up, perhaps, which drains additional energy yet makes it deal more damage and last longer would be really cool, now that I think about it.

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I would love to see the passive work with the armor shards dropped from enemies. Her biggest flaw is her survival and if those shards could act like an Atlas armor buff that would really make her a lot tankier. And for shielded enemies maybe drop a damage reduction orb(similar to maybe Novas 1 or Baruuks 3) and these stack and decay over time.

Her 3 really needs to do something with infested enemies maybe just ripping parts of the infested armor parts of their body dealing a % of their total Hp however not dealing AoE damage like with shields or armor. And this in turn would act as a way to disguise yourself as an infested for her passive, so when picking up the dropped parts it's kinda like covering yourself in zombie guts, the enemies become less aware of you and enemy auras become beneficial to you. This way she becomes useful in all factions and not just corpus/grineer.

Kinda on the fence if with her 3 if allies would be in the cast range those dropped parts could be picked up by them too, might be power creepish.

 

 

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This isn't the first Mag rework thread in the last week or so. Personally, I'm getting to really like Mag. In the DPS / CC / tanking trifecta of Warframe, DPS abilities and frames tend to change in function or effectiveness the most by enemy level, so I should really say that I like Mag as of level 80-100. She's unusually squishy, but still fully capable of dealing out average levels of damage for a DPS frame, and that makes her fun.

So god, whatever you do, don't buff her survivability in a dull DR or extra-overshields way, she's the only way to ensure I have a consistent threat of death. And naturally, I love the idea of a passive that performs a radial Pull when her shield breaks. Get a good melee!

She does have a lot of overlap with Hildryn, and it's worth saying that her augmented Crush was Pillage before Pillage was Pillage - though since its shield return works based on the number of enemies instead of their particular stats, it's consistently meh, instead of worthless until you hit level 70 or so and it suddenly becomes an instant restore to cap. I've been thinking of Hildryn as "thicc Mag" or Mag's big little sister since she was released. But I don't think it's too much of a problem as long as the rest of their kits stay pretty distinct and Mag doesn't quite have the same playstyle. 

What's still a bit more problematic is that Mag has a lot of overlap with Mag - if you use both augments, Crush and Polarize are both radial stuns that strip armor and restore shields for Mag and allies. Polarize is easier to work around and more fun because it's a one-handed action, and that's important for a frame that has to keep moving to stay alive, since neither cast is instant. It's also easier to build for since its range scales with duration and you still need duration for the "weapon jam" effect. Conversely, it has only flat armor strip rather than %, which is fairly useless against those 80-100 enemies, and Counter Pulse doesn't disable melee enemies, making it particularly useless against Infested.

I think it's worth saying that Magnetize is definitely her strongest ability right now, and whether you augment her 3 or her 4, that's probably where her higher level survivability is coming from, unless you're very careful and clever with those Magnetize bubbles, which can be tricky since you need an enemy in the right position for them. I guess Magnetize still has some issues with innate multishot that need fixing, and if we want to follow the model of recent reworks, it should probably get some chance to armor strip per tick, because no matter how much damage you pump into the bubble, the ticks are not very impressive against armor.

Polarize shards only add 50 damage to the bubble. They're pretty but useless. They could scale with Polarize's armor and shield strip, except that Polarize's armor and shield strip is still flat. This is one where I can't help thinking, maybe make Counter Pulse the base ability with optional armor strip stuff as the augment...?

Pull is her weakest ability, meant to sling enemies toward you in striking range and slinging them behind you over your head at shooting-in-the-back range instead. I keep messing around with my positioning, like using Pull in a mostly downward angle from a few meters up, etc., or combining with Magnetize in hopes that the bubble will slightly slow down or at least damage the enemies I pull toward it, and nothing ever quite works. Reworking the physics of Pull to just ... actually serve a purpose would be really great. 

I use Crush when I can take five seconds to build up an overshield I plan to lose in one. Such situations do exist. I'm not convinced it has any other purpose, unless you use the augment and treat it as Pillage. So all around, still better than Pull, but the one ability I'd consider outright replacing because of its overlap with Polarize and its being the one ability she has that doesn't give her free movement, making it a sort of unsurvivability ability in that sense.

 

Edited by CopperBezel
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