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Lets fix it: Ash


(XBOX)EntrTheLight
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Hi, so I've been thinking a lot about Ash and been thinking it's time for an upgrade.  Having to mark enemies for Bladestorm is kind of troublesome, at least how it is currently implemented. So, let's fix it, shall we?

Ash's Passive.  I think his Passive is alright, but could use an addition.  Instead of giving Ash an ability for invisibilty, I think we should implement it as a passive.  For example, when Ash is enveloped in a substance, he turns invisible.  I say it like this so he could work with some other frames as well, like perhaps Wukong's cloud walker.  When Wukong walks on clouds (lol) around ash Ash gains a duration of invisibility.  (would be based on power duration)... or if he was Banished maybe gains a duration of invisibility.  

 

First ability would be a selective choice ability, with three options. Shuriken, Smokescreen, and Spike Tracer.  
SHURIKEN will be basically the same, but can be held down to form a Charged Shuriken, which will be a large shuriken that will knock enemies over and then explode on contact.  (yes, I am thinking of Naruto's Shuriken, or something similar to it).
SMOKESCREEN will be a throwable pouch that when lands, will explode into a large area of smoke (based on power range) at the point of contact with the surface.  If Ash were to go into this area, his passive will activate and become invisible for an extra duration outside of passive.
SPIKE TRACER will be a ability where Ash throws special spikes down for enemies to step on.   Enemies will receive puncture damage but will be permanently be marked.  

 

Second Ability would be his Teleport ability.  No change to the ability besides going from ability 3 to 2.

 

Third Ability will be Shadow Clone.  (again with a Naruto reference, lol.  Ash is supposed to be a ninja after all). Basically will be similar to Wukong's Celestial Twin.  Ash aims at a surface an spawns a Shadow Clone.  This clone will always try to hide, by wall latching up high or staying in shadows.  The clone will act as a sort of surveillance device and while active will mark enemies on map as well as mark them for bladestorm.  Decasting this clone would also help replenish ammo, energy, and health based on its stats.  (example if your clone remains at full health while you are low, you can break the clone to take its' health).

 

Fourth Ability: Bladestorm.  Will assassinate all marked enemies.  If no enemies are marked, will summon several clones (number based on power strength) and it will bladestorm nearby enemies.  Survivors of bladestorm will be stripped of their armor.  

 

 

Well, I think that wraps up my idea.  I do have another warframe I would like to revisit as well, Zephyr.  But that will be a post for another day.  What are your thoughts?  DO you have any ideas to improve ash?  

 

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No offense, but those are some of the worst ideas I've read in a long time. And I don't even play Ash.

Honestly that stuff right there is basically a downgrade.

 

47 minutes ago, (XB1)TokyoDreamer91 said:

again with a Naruto reference, lol.  Ash is supposed to be a ninja after all

I don't... dude. What. I've watched Naruto, Naruto Shippuden and a bit of Boruto. I gave up. Naruto was one big filler episode, Shippuden was okay except for the constant "SASKEEEEE!" flashbacks and Boruto is just a repeat of Naruto, only even more cocky, if that's even possible.

But ignoring all that, the entire Naruto franchise has absolutely nothing to do with Ninjas. Hell, I thought Ninjas were supposed to be stealthy, as in staying undetected and/or going undercover. Blowing up entire villages and going to all-out war doesn't exactly yell "Ninja" now does it.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)TokyoDreamer91 said:

Ash's Passive.  I think his Passive is alright, but could use an addition.  Instead of giving Ash an ability for invisibilty, I think we should implement it as a passive.  For example, when Ash is enveloped in a substance, he turns invisible.  I say it like this so he could work with some other frames as well, like perhaps Wukong's cloud walker.  When Wukong walks on clouds (lol) around ash Ash gains a duration of invisibility.  (would be based on power duration)... or if he was Banished maybe gains a duration of invisibility.

Heh, Nooooo! Ash's Passive is already very powerful as it not only affects his own skills, it affects damage from any weapon that is Slash Based like Soma Prime and Tigris Prime.

Also, you didnt specify how this Invisibility would work? How is it triggered? How long it lasts? Is there a way for enemies to break his invisibility?

1 hour ago, (XB1)TokyoDreamer91 said:

First ability would be a selective choice ability, with three options. Shuriken, Smokescreen, and Spike Tracer.  
SHURIKEN will be basically the same, but can be held down to form a Charged Shuriken, which will be a large shuriken that will knock enemies over and then explode on contact.  (yes, I am thinking of Naruto's Shuriken, or something similar to it).
SMOKESCREEN will be a throwable pouch that when lands, will explode into a large area of smoke (based on power range) at the point of contact with the surface.  If Ash were to go into this area, his passive will activate and become invisible for an extra duration outside of passive.
SPIKE TRACER will be a ability where Ash throws special spikes down for enemies to step on.   Enemies will receive puncture damage but will be permanently be marked.

The moment you throw in Naruto references you lose any reasoning for your ideas.

I find multi-utility skills like Ivara's Quiver and Vauban's deployables very cool but i cant see this happening for Ash.

1 hour ago, (XB1)TokyoDreamer91 said:

Second Ability would be his Teleport ability.  No change to the ability besides going from ability 3 to 2.

I would be ok with switching his 2 and 3's place as long as Smoke Screen retained its functionality but gained increase duration.

1 hour ago, (XB1)TokyoDreamer91 said:

Third Ability will be Shadow Clone.  (again with a Naruto reference, lol.  Ash is supposed to be a ninja after all). Basically will be similar to Wukong's Celestial Twin.  Ash aims at a surface an spawns a Shadow Clone.  This clone will always try to hide, by wall latching up high or staying in shadows.  The clone will act as a sort of surveillance device and while active will mark enemies on map as well as mark them for bladestorm.  Decasting this clone would also help replenish ammo, energy, and health based on its stats.  (example if your clone remains at full health while you are low, you can break the clone to take its' health).

NO! Just no!

1 hour ago, (XB1)TokyoDreamer91 said:

Fourth Ability: Bladestorm.  Will assassinate all marked enemies.  If no enemies are marked, will summon several clones (number based on power strength) and it will bladestorm nearby enemies.  Survivors of bladestorm will be stripped of their armor.

I am Ok with the armor stripping feature for enemies that survive tho the Clone thing is a big no.

We should avoid anything that would make him Press4ToWin again.

1 hour ago, (XB1)TokyoDreamer91 said:

Well, I think that wraps up my idea.  I do have another warframe I would like to revisit as well, Zephyr.  But that will be a post for another day.

Humor me... Im one of if not, the player with highest Zephyr usage in the game so it will be very difficult for your ideas to impress me. Her current second Skill (Airburst) was my idea.

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9 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

His first 3 abilities are always fine. Bladestorm still sucks after so many updates since the first nerf though. They should have just trashed it and replace it with something new.

Blade storm is fine damage wise and functionality playing on controller if I'm attentive enough I can out dps frames like equinox at times 

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The shadow clone idea is one of Loki's abilities... and a lot of other frames including Atlas have Spectre abilities too... 

I'm not liking the shiroken abilities much, they're too fiddly for me personally. Also, trying to paint a target in a heavy fight like 30mins into an infestation survival is a big ask... so I agree that could use a rework. I'm wondering whether DE would allow the shiroken abilities to auto-seek the nearest enemy or multiple enemies if charged like Garuda's quills?

The idea about the first ability, you're basically making him work like Vauban grenades. I can see how that might work.

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Firstly what you asking for Ash is not a fix, fixing something means it was broken before and Ash is not broken, read this so that you know what you`re saying. (and for everyone here)

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1170539-what-is-the-difference-between-a-rework-and-a-revisit/

And secondly, these ideas are better for another frame however even through I disagree with some of your ideas, I do agree that he needs a revisit. Here is my version of a revisit for Ash, tell me what you think.

 

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12 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Im one of if not, the player with highest Zephyr usage in the game so it will be very difficult for your ideas to impress me. Her current second Skill (Airburst) was my idea.

You have my attention. I think Zephyr needs a look over so since you play Zephyr allot, what changes would you give her?

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

You have my attention. I think Zephyr needs a look over so since you play Zephyr allot, what changes would you give her?

I would change that dumb charge mechanic from her 1st ability to instead of hover it should toggle a controlled flight similar to Titania`s 4th without exalteds or evasion but that had increased speed when flying forward. The rest of her kit i would leave as is.

How about you?

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Anything that messes with smoke bomb’s on-demand invisibility is an automatic significant downgrade.  Ash can’t afford to stay visible for long.  A more weaponized smoke bomb that can stun/disorient enemies more easily than the current one sounds good, but only as long as it keeps turning Ash invisible automatically.  At best, your idea would just cause players to aim at the ground to get the invisibility effect we have now, making it a more awkward and finicky version of what we already have.

Similarly, the caltrops sound like a more awkward, roundabout way of marking enemies than swiping the cursor over them, which already has its problems.  Also, a tool wheel would interfere with rapid shuriken casting.  It’d need a lot more utility to justify its existence, not that I don’t like the idea of a tool wheel.

The clone idea sounds too complicated and unreliable or at the very least slower than the aforementioned death mark mechanic we have currently.  Replenishing health/ammo from deactivating the clone makes no sense, either.  You’re basically making it a free health/ammo reserve.  What if there are no shadows (e.g. open areas, well-lit defense missions)?  The clone’s going to die instantly.
 

13 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Blade storm is fine damage wise and functionality playing on controller if I'm attentive enough I can out dps frames like equinox at times 

How much power strength do you use?

I’m in the camp that wants Blade Storm to be easier to use.  I wasn’t around for the pre-rework Blade Storm days, but I can see why it was game-breakingly OP.  However, there has to be a middle ground between that and getting all my kills stolen by my squad.  I’d be fine with a cone of sight instead of line of sight and not having to mark the same target multiple times for full damage if DE doesn’t want to turn it back into an AoE attack.

Edited by (PS4)ZillaJrKaijuKing
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Keep ash the way it is except for his 4th, turn it into an exalted melee with the following changes:

Ash is (invincible/invisible/dmg resistance) with this ability active, when activated, ash jumps towards the targeted enemy, just like before his rework, except he doesn't keep jumping towards another enemy by himself, ash remains in the air, like if he was under rhino's stomp animation (duration affects how long he stays in this state) while he is the air he can target another enemy and repeat the process, since this is an exalted ability he may jump to an infinite number of enemies until he runs out of energy or deactivate his ability

Maybe also switch 2 and 3 as OP mentioned

Anyway, old ash was OP and boring to play while the current ash is kinda balanced but is way to weak compared to what he was so I tried to mix both versions

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1 hour ago, (PS4)ZillaJrKaijuKing said:

Anything that messes with smoke bomb’s on-demand invisibility is an automatic significant downgrade.  Ash can’t afford to stay visible for long.  A more weaponized smoke bomb that can stun/disorient enemies more easily than the current one sounds good, but only as long as it keeps turning Ash invisible automatically.  At best, your idea would just cause players to aim at the ground to get the invisibility effect we have now, making it a more awkward and finicky version of what we already have.

Similarly, the caltrops sound like a more awkward, roundabout way of marking enemies than swiping the cursor over them, which already has its problems.  Also, a tool wheel would interfere with rapid shuriken casting.  It’d need a lot more utility to justify its existence, not that I don’t like the idea of a tool wheel.

The clone idea sounds too complicated and unreliable or at the very least slower than the aforementioned death mark mechanic we have currently.  Replenishing health/ammo from deactivating the clone makes no sense, either.  You’re basically making it a free health/ammo reserve.  What if there are no shadows (e.g. open areas, well-lit defense missions)?  The clone’s going to die instantly.
 

How much power strength do you use?

I’m in the camp that wants Blade Storm to be easier to use.  I wasn’t around for the pre-rework Blade Storm days, but I can see why it was game-breakingly OP.  However, there has to be a middle ground between that and getting all my kills stolen by my squad.  I’d be fine with a cone of sight instead of line of sight and not having to mark the same target multiple times for full damage if DE doesn’t want to turn it back into an AoE attack.

I never used blade storm to really secure kills unless it's the rising storm build and I'm cheesing with fatal tp. Which to this day is still very strong. It does true damage so what I usually do is since I have generally two builds for ash "stupid inaros ash." Or" never see me ash" both take advantage of finishers and the first is two fully stacked arcane ultimatums with umbral ash and seeking shuriken. With this I'm setting pretty at so much armor and if I'm using healing return and or the amalgam daikyu mod i am unkillable and I have seeking shuriken to secure kills for endurance so I can tank damage and kill for sustain. You can sacrifice duration on this build for adaptation to be more tank butttttt since ash dosent have dr in his kit I'd prefer Invis duration to play it safe 

 

Two is arcane trickery same thing with bladestorm but I'm focused on fatal teleport or a heavy attack build while invis so those high stealth pros hit. Rn a heavy attack build or if you're lucky and have a decent riven for a strong melee of choice "I used redeemer prime" it'll get you farther then a fatal teleport build. But Fatal teleport with this build along with dur and power along with rolling guard is safer cause you proc trickery More often.

 

I also had a hybrid smoke screen augment to pseudo support along with seeking shuriken but unless you're just keen on ash like I me play a support frame. It's fun to see people type "yo ur ash is so cool" or " why do you play like this" thigh 

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What I would change about Ash is give his air casts of certain moves a little difference.

Make him feel like a street fighter character.

  • So an air cast of smoke screen allows him to air jump even after a double jump.
  • Air Bladestorm automatically teleports ash to his targets like the old bladestorm.
  • Air shuriken throws a spread of 6 at once.
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1 hour ago, (PS4)ZillaJrKaijuKing said:

Do Fatal Teleport and Blade Storm have any synergy?  As far as I know, Fatal Teleport doesn’t affect Blade Storm finishers.

No and yes in a sense no because it dosent affect bladestorm finishers. That would be beyond broken as bladestorm does true damage. But using blade storm to proc an arcane and using fatal teleport during ur invisiblility(as I mentioned with arcane trickery synergies well) effectively you're invisible for ever since you can pop your two use blade storm to keep trickery up and have alot of fun 

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