"You'll have to stop at some point" says DE

[SordidDreams]

41 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

The problem is here OP is only pointing out things that can be avoided if you're careful enough.

The problem is annoyances that can be avoided by being careful have no place in an entertainment product. The point of an entertainment product is to deliver entertainment, and having to avoid annoyances ain't it.

41 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Don't bring explosive weapons onto parts of ships that have glass windows.

You don't need explosive weapons to blow them up, any stray shot will do it. Enemies can blow them up too, and you have no way to control where the AI shoots. As can explosive barrels, which can also be set off by enemies. That's to say nothing of up to three trigger-happy teammates.

41 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Look for blue lasers so you can destroy cameras.

It's much easier to just roll through the lasers, but that requires you to know they're going to activate. Which you only do if you're the one activating them, there's no way to predict whether or not a teammate on the other side of the room is about to trip a camera or not. Also, even with reduced effects intensity there's sometimes so much sh*t on the screen that I can't even see the enemies, let alone a faint blue line in a blue corridor in a blue spaceship.

41 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Orokin devices expose weaknesses, and they're in the middle of a room or hallway so they're not good cover.

I'm not sure what you mean by "expose weaknesses", but yes, they tend to be in the middle of hallways, i.e. precisely in the path you're likely to take. They exist for no reason other than to be annoying. Again, I don't think any part of an entertainment product should be designed to be annoying.

41 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Friendship doors are a good indicator to one zippy team member to slow the fu** down and remind them there's a team and that they can't just blow through a mission even faster.

No, they're not. That zippy teammate is going to zoom ahead again immediately once the door is open, so it doesn't do anything for the slowpokes, all it does is annoy the speedrunner. Who is going to try even harder to run quickly now because they feel they need to make up the time the door wasted.

41 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Capture missions could be all of a minute if the maps didn't stop you from time to time.

Yes, they could be, and they'd be a hell of a lot more fun.

41 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

And on higher levels it's a decent chance to catch your breath, reload, and regenerate health and energy.

If you need to do that, you can just do it at any time on your own. You don't need a door to remind you. You're making the door sound like good ol' Clippy offering 'useful' advice.

41 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Would you defend them taking out the magnetic Grineer doors and making this game even easier? 

Magnetic doors don't stop you. This thread is about things that stop you and interrupt the pace of the game. They are also constantly on and visible from a distance, so it's entirely up to you whether you choose to go through them or not, they don't activate a microsecond before you enter them.

Edited February 28, 2020 by SordidDreams

[(XBOX)Red Dough Boy]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

When you've played the same mission type thousands of times, sometimes doing something outside of the objective isn't what you want to accomplish, so you run by.

"Minor inconvenience" is what all these things are. It's not the end of the world to have to use friendship doors. Neither is hacking a console to re-open doors. However, these inconveniences break the flow of gameplay and don't serve any positive purpose being in the game. I don't agree with removing most traps like some people might want. Traps are good to keep awareness up and are easily disabled/destroyed, but some of these things just have no place in the game anymore.

Their only place is basically as you say, to keep awareness up. Speedruns would be even faster with nothing stopping your progress. Considering enemies are also a minor inconvenience during some missions the map is the only thing actually slowing you down. OP didn't even mention the Grineer door hazard which I find even worse since it steals your energy. Before they change these things I'd rather see a change to Parasitic eximus being able to steal energy by simply existing near you. If they have to attack then that would be better, or if they drop a lot of energy when they die with the current system. 

[Voltage]

Just now, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Their only place is basically as you say, to keep awareness up. Speedruns would be even faster with nothing stopping your progress. Considering enemies are also a minor inconvenience during some missions the map is the only thing actually slowing you down. OP didn't even mention the Grineer door hazard which I find even worse since it steals your energy. Before they change these things I'd rather see a change to Parasitic eximus being able to steal energy by simply existing near you. If they have to attack then that would be better, or if they drop a lot of energy when they die with the current system. 

They don't accomplish what you just said. They are just annoying. Plain and simple. @SordidDreams just explained that for me.

[Aldain]

2 hours ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

Door frame stuck

This is the one thing I fully agree with, especially doors that don't look like they have anything to stand on in the first place, I can understand landing on a big Grineer doorframe, but many of the Corpus doors don't look like they could be stood on.

Everything else I can tolerate, but this nonsense of landing on (thin) door frames is something I hope they get rid of at some point.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

The door frame thing does bug me. There's no visible geometry. It's a holdover nuisance from pre-TSD. Not as annoying now as it was then, considering the linearity of old parkour frontflip. You can avoid it... but sometimes my frame displaces mid-jump to land on it. What is this, Smash Ultimate?

[VanFanel1980mx]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Dee Dubbalyoo said:

Are they glass though? I mean, put some mods on your Boltor and a simple metal bolt gets some high tech coating that can instantly corrode armour, cause an explosion and simultaneously remain intact to nail that poor grineer to the wall. The windows could be reinforced plasti-steel for all the good it would do against some of the weapons in my arsenal. 

Speaking of which, is it just me or decompression doesn't hurt the enemies?

[VanFanel1980mx]

To the people who actually get the point of the discussion, I left out the most obvious things because that doesn't break the pacing but actually makes it, what do I mean? well, obvious architecture and simple doors for example, if anything there are parts of the level architecture that actually hurt the pacing and those are all the tiny collisions that DE has never bothered to eliminate, I presume their game engine needs even more spaguetti code to set proper colliders on their levels instead of letting it add them by geometry, in this case there are small bumps, slopes, tubes, etc., I guess it is best to illustrate it so I will be adding some pictures later.

[AnatharsWrath]

as annoying as some of these can be the only thing i personally take issue with is
-not being able to jump over a ledge cause my head keeps hitting a rounded edge sticking out ever so slightly

-frames grabbing ledges and vaulting over them despite being easily jump able but cause i was holding forward it decided to climb it breaking my momentum.

-getting caught on the edges of consoles and such causing you to run in place until you move at an angle that will allow you to escape.

[VanFanel1980mx]

1 minute ago, AnatharsWrath said:

as annoying as some of these can be the only thing i personally take issue with is
-not being able to jump over a ledge cause my head keeps hitting a rounded edge sticking out ever so slightly

-frames grabbing ledges and vaulting over them despite being easily jump able but cause i was holding forward it decided to climb it breaking my momentum.

-getting caught on the edges of consoles and such causing you to run in place until you move at an angle that will allow you to escape.

Yes, most of these are there because the levels lack some proper colliders, interestingly enough DE has put some huge ones in certain places like Grineer Galleon Defense where you can no longer get on top of the level where a lot of players who needed to go AFK for a moment used to go, although it is probably the whole ceiling collider in this case.

[SordidDreams]

On 2020-02-28 at 1:48 AM, VanFanel1980mx said:

Yes, most of these are there because the levels lack some proper colliders, interestingly enough DE has put some huge ones in certain places like Grineer Galleon Defense where you can no longer get on top of the level where a lot of players who needed to go AFK for a moment used to go, although it is probably the whole ceiling collider in this case.

Don't even get me started, DE's logic in the placement of collision meshes is sometimes downright bizarre. Any normal person would make the openings of pipes and air vents funnel-shaped to make them easier to get into, DE put a lip on them to make it extra annoying. I get wanting to have that there visually, but why the f*ck it has collision is beyond me. Same with the lintels above doors and various other small decorative prostrusions and greebles on surfaces that serve no purpose other than to get stuck on. And yet there's a number of places throughout the game where you can simply walk out of bounds and get respawned, no wall to stop you there, visible or invisible.

Or consider the back room in Fortuna.The Biz, who stands between a table and a large crate, has collision and blocks you from being able to walk around the table from that side. Meanwhile Eudico, who stands in a completely unobstructive spot, has no collision. I'd love to know the reasoning behind that particular design decision.

Though to their credit, they have recently removed the collision mesh from those annoying hanging cables in one of the starting tiles of the Earth tileset. It only took them the better part of a decade, but they did get rid of that, so.... thumbs up for that.

Edited March 1, 2020 by SordidDreams

[XRosenkreuz]

The audacity of these people having security systems. How dare they try to slow us down in killing them all?

[VanFanel1980mx]

24 minutes ago, XRosenkreuz said:

The audacity of these people having security systems. How dare they try to slow us down in killing them all?

I am talking about the obstacle from a gameplay perspective, not the lore.

[Thundervision]

Meh, I didn't even have much problems (aside death) when you could get stuck in the Corpus barriers flipping back and forth until you get killed by it. The only and the most retardest machanic DE have ever come up with were the Broken Lights. Either it was burning one's eyes with flashbang style, or doing this:

 

 

 

Quote

Wellcome to the WF forums, where any no-brainer suggestion for improving the game is treated as heresy of the highest order by a legion of white knights and relentlessly mocked with the most obnoxiously trollish 'logic' imaginable. And of course the mods do precisely nothing about this toxicity.

And apparently someone does not even notice the log that is in their own eye 🙄

[XRosenkreuz]

28 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

I am talking about the obstacle from a gameplay perspective, not the lore.

I understand that, but saying 'obstacles exist for a reason, get over it,' felt too on-the-nose.

[VanFanel1980mx]

10 minutes ago, XRosenkreuz said:

I understand that, but saying 'obstacles exist for a reason, get over it,' felt too on-the-nose.

Some of them are just badly done, others are a consequence of poor game optimization, nobody is askign for straight hallways like some others seem to claim, the most annoying ones kind of affect co-op more than solo and don't seem to solve the problem DE wants to solve either.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

10 hours ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

I too would like to just fly through a tube without thinking about traversing the map. Also if the enemy would stop moving about so much and would sit still so I could shoot them that'd be nice. 

As it is stopping progress and locking Warframes in a room makes sense from the standpoint of the opposition, as well as having to choose what weapons to bring along on a ship. Think about being a corpus commander when a Warframe is let loose on your ship to butcher your men, it only makes sense to lock as many bulkheads as possible. Be glad exterminate missions don't turn into survival since they could just as easily vent atmosphere to kill your unprepared Warframe while the enemy has environment suits. 

I'd like to know who the maniac is that put breakable glass windows on a space ship. Some sci fi stuff I've seen has transparent steel or other such strong materials that doesn't shatter easily, and is also layered to prevent shattering. 

I was thinking the same thing, but I also was thinking that it's supposed to be breakable as a trap: why would the glass break during daily operations? It's to trap us intentionally if we infiltrate the ship? Lol

[Methanoid]

to be fair corpus lasers dont do squat, walking into them will stop you yes but you can just roll right through them without issue.

[Yamazuki]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

 OP didn't even mention the Grineer door hazard which I find even worse since it steals your energy. 

They can be destroyed while running at them, even some melee stances can hit them without even having to jump. This is before taking into account that energy is generally irrelevant for missions that are rushed.

[VanFanel1980mx]

2 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

They can be destroyed while running at them, even some melee stances can hit them without even having to jump. This is before taking into account that energy is generally irrelevant for missions that are rushed.

I have to say magnetic grineer doors are one of the good ones, they don't stop you just like that and even when you are breezing through the level you can be quite aware of them, no interference from another player will screw you up on those, the only penalty is the magnetic proc, the door won't slam on your nose or knock you down, in short, that one doesn't disrupt the pace of the game.

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, XRosenkreuz said:

I understand that, but saying 'obstacles exist for a reason, get over it,' felt too on-the-nose.

Yes, but in a video game that reason should be because they're fun to overcome. Which is only true when overcoming them is based on skill, and the problem with a lot of these is that they trip you up not as a result of your own actions but as a result of someone else's or the AI's (i.e. effectively at random).

1 hour ago, Thundervision said:

And apparently someone does not even notice the log that is in their own eye 🙄

You know what the bard said, the devil can cite scripture for his own purpose. Thanks for providing an example of what I was talking about, though I think we had plenty already.

Edited February 28, 2020 by SordidDreams

[(XBOX)Red Dough Boy]

13 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

I was thinking the same thing, but I also was thinking that it's supposed to be breakable as a trap: why would the glass break during daily operations? It's to trap us intentionally if we infiltrate the ship? Lol

Since most of their crews can't kill us then venting atmosphere in one room that locks automatically and throwing us into space would seem a very good solution to a raiding Warframe squad. 

[(XBOX)Red Dough Boy]

12 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

They can be destroyed while running at them, even some melee stances can hit them without even having to jump. This is before taking into account that energy is generally irrelevant for missions that are rushed.

Unlike the others they can actually do something to affect the overall mission rather than slowing you down for a few seconds. Paying attention to doors in Grineer missions helps alleviate this, the other delays he listed only exist to delay rather than steal something you need like energy. 

[VanFanel1980mx]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Unlike the others they can actually do something to affect the overall mission rather than slowing you down for a few seconds. Paying attention to doors in Grineer missions helps alleviate this, the other delays he listed only exist to delay rather than steal something you need like energy. 

Precisely, I mean, having obstacles is one thing but it would be like having Parkour 1.0 where you are supposed to go around seamlessly, right now the horrible colliders and outdated obstacles are more annoying than anything and truly break the pace, people seem to mistake pacing with speed when trying to defend the current level design.

[Morthal]

On 2020-02-27 at 1:07 PM, elmetnuter said:

Isn't that fun that that the levels are not empty corridors with no doors in between? Let's remove ramps, devices and architectures in middle of square rooms too and let's have all of this in straight path, no left or right corners.

Acrobatics exist. 
Sadly, every object model in the game for some odd reason, has a ledge or lip on it which slows movement. Path of Exile had this problem with Cyclone for years, where you'd get stuck on a grain of sand. 
DE is obviously aware since they opened up Jupiter's gas city tiles, allowing full use of acrobatics. I appreciate your sarcasm but you're out of your element, elmetnuter.

[GPrime96]

16 hours ago, Thundervision said:

Meh, I didn't even have much problems (aside death) when you could get stuck in the Corpus barriers flipping back and forth until you get killed by it. The only and the most retardest machanic DE have ever come up with were the Broken Lights. Either it was burning one's eyes with flashbang style, or doing this:

 

I'm so glad that Bug dosen't happen anymore