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[Railjack Guide] Everything Railjack Guide


Zepharia
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WORK IN PROGRESS

If you just want see the build, multiple are posted later but I do suggest reading to understand why I chose those things. most images will be hidden behind spoilers.

Introduction(my experience and opinion on railjack)

My ign is Zepharia, I'm a MR25 player with almost 100% completion on everything railjack including all avionics except Battle Stations, 100+ anomaly runs(lots of spare shards :/), dozens of weapons and parts made and tested, and just some weird situation where I actually like railjack when most people don’t seem to.

I have been getting a lot of questions about railjack lately from many people. It is quite difficult to explain something as detailed as railjack in simple terms. Don’t think of railjack as just “a big archwing”, instead you can think of it as relearning how to mod a warframe with a different environment and controls. Railjacks have things that can be compared to mods, endo, abilities, guns, and the ship itself can be used as a melee weapon ;P. You are mr 0 and learning how to play again, overcome it like you have likely done in the main game already.

 

General Priorities

#1: Settings

  • I recommend sorting avionics by name because it will group the avionics with different houses next to each other to prevent confusion and allow you to compare them.

  • Railjack keybinds and settings are located below lunaro and frame fighter in the normal controls window.
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  • The Tactical Menu is a menu that you will bring up quite often during your missions to use tactical abilities and navigate your ship. By default this is set to L and I would recommend changing it to an unused key that is more comfortable or closer. This is personal preference and won't affect gameplay too much.

  • You can set Maneuver to a separate hotkey to allow for easier drifting while piloting. If you do this, you also need to remove shift from Boost/Maneuver and put on just Boost so your keys are separate. Maneuver is sort of like a quick dash of the ship in the direction you press and can be used before of after pressing the Boost key to drift. I recommend setting it to a mouse button if you can and leaving boost on shift.
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    Default 
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    Edited

#2 Resources and avionics

  • If you don’t own a railjack yet,  don't farm normal warframe missions or mine for the resources. I suggest finding a friend you can tag along with on any railjack mission and you will get plenty of resources and other things that can be used to prepare your ship quickly.

  • Everything requires resources and now that rush drones don’t exist, you likely won’t be able to quickly repair parts so it is best to start gathering resources and gear as you learn.

  • Only repair fires, avoid repairing hull ruptures and shock traps unless you need the intrinsics or instant 1k hp heal to the ship, you can save on the 4 common railjack resources by doing this which may help out early on. (fire = DoT + no hp regen, shock = reduced max shield, rupture = reduced max hp)

  • Avionics are a key component to making a strong railjack and can be a bottleneck early on especially if you have just been leeching veil missions for strong gear.

  • I suggest doing missions on a variety of planets if you can, as each planet can drop different types of avionics

#3 Understand which railjack missions to do and how they work

  • Veil missions require that the host has at least 1 intrinsic at level 7, beyond that they can take anyone with them as long as they own an archwing.

  • Resources drop in roughly the same quantities no matter what missions you are doing. Speed matters most in terms of resources.

  • Railjack missions are all labeled as skirmish for some reason but they are indeed different and people farm them for different reasons.
    Earth (Kosma Enemies):
    -Posit Cluster(lvl 1-3, 30 Fighters, 2 Crewships): Farm resources including titanium by running fast missions for the 750-1000 end mission rewards or if you have a resource booster, spend some time looting during the mission for big hauls of resources.

    -Korms Belt(lvl 20-25, 60 Fighters, 4 Crewships, 1 Objective): Farm earth specific avionics such as Zetki Bulkhead and Battle Stations because of the higher change of finding elite kosma fighters. Has a chance to spawn a galleon.

    Saturn (Gyre Enemies):
    -Kaasio's Rest(lvl 30-33, 90 Fighters, 6 Crewships, 1 Objective): Has a 100% chance to have a galleon, which can drop Pennant/Quellor(5% chance each) and also has high chance of spawning elite gyre enemies dropping saturn specific avionics. Notably good intrinsics aswell with much easier enemies than veil.

    Veil (Exo Enemies):
    -Nsu Grid(lvl 32-35, 60 Fighters, 4 Crewships, 2 Objectives): My personal favorite intrinsic farm as with a built ship and proper knowledge, it can be done solo with little worry about failing the mission.

    -Gian Point(lvl 35-37, 90 Fighters, 6 Crewships): The only veil mission with no additional objectives and can be completed relatively quickly for the end mission rewards. Come here if you want vidar engines/reactors or just veil avionics.

-Flexa(lvl 36-39, 90 Fighters, 6 Crewships, 2 Objectives): 100% chance to have a galleon, which can drop Pennant/Quellor(5% chance each)

  • Sentient anomalies spawn every 3 hours or so and appear in the veil with a blinking red light. I recommend checking semlar.com to find when the next anomaly will appear. These can be run for anomaly shards to trade into Little Duck, or for Shedu parts. Make sure to bring Paracesis along if you haven’t already*.

 

Building Order

 

Repairing your first railjack parts

  • Your first railjack parts are a big deal try and only craft mkIII items from the veil if you can

  • A cheaper “Sigma” version of certain ship parts may be available from your dojo to craft

  • From the drydock, purchase Tycho Seeker mkIII missiles if you can as they will be a huge help and won’t be changed.

  • List of parts to craft in order of importance

Vidar Reactor(#1 priority):avionics capacity is king here and vidar has 90-100 which is a massive bump up from sigma but if you are desperate another reactor with 75+ could be used or even the sigma reactor which is cheaper to craft.

Lavan Carcinnox: This gun has a good sized heat pool and great ease of use for both the pilot and gunners. Can be used until the endgame. Chances are that until your ship is much more geared, your gunners won’t be able to do much with side turrets so focus on 1 for now.

Vidar Engine: Vidar is the best here because of its top speed, but even the sigma engines will be extremely noticeable from the default engine.

Second Turret: This can be up to personal preference, I would make a more potent zetki weapon for pilot to use with munitions vortex or choose a different weapon you are interested in. Check the weapons section below to learn the differences between the weapons.

Zetki Shiled w/ damage perk(Last priority): For a railjack, shields are quite useless currently and don't block much at all past earth. The best shield atm seems to be the zetki shields simply because of the 25% damage while shields are depleted perk and run it with a high recharge delay so you get the buff as often as you can.

Spoiler

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What are Houses

 

The different houses (Zetki, Lavan, and Vidar) seem to be something many people don't understand well. Each house essentially has a specialty in what gear they make and that in turn causes each house to focus more on a stat than the other two or be a more balanced type.

Each house can be recognized by the markings on the icon or near the name. Zetki has 4 dash marks on the top that look like shingles on a roof, Vidar has the spiky triangles on the top, and Lavan has a smooth 4 dots on each side.
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                     Zetki                                             Vidar                                            Lavan

Zetki: Focuses on more battle oriented and raw output devices. 

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  • Reactor: Maximum flux capacity with perks focusing on repairing fires and hull ruptures.
  • Engines: Balanced
  • Shields: Maximum recharge rates with more offensive damage bonuses
  • Weapons: Highest damage output with high heat accretion. Fire rate bonuses on everything except Photor.
  • Avionics: Highest capacity for Bulkhead, Hyperstrike, Predator, Section Density, Hull Weave, certain elemental resists, and some other similar avionics.


Lavan: Focuses on speed and tactical devices.

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  • Reactor: Balanced with perks focusing on increasing shields using flux
  • Engines: Maximum boost multiplier
  • Shields: Maximum shield capacity
  • Weapons: Highest status chance with low critical values and heat accretion. Fire rate bonuses  on everything except Photor.
  • Avionics: Highest capacity for Ion Burn, Conic Nozzle, and some other similar avionics.

Vidar: Focuses on elemental effects and has some of best capacities.

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  • Reactor: Maximum avionics capacity with double immunity after repair and archwing speed on exit perks
  • Engines: Maximum top speed and boost while shield depleted/lower enemies armor perks
  • Shields: Balanced
  • Weapons: Lower base damage and heat accretion with high crit values. Damage bonuses on everything.
  • Avionics: Highest capacity for heat sink and phasic weave only. Makes up for this by sometimes providing lower capacity versions with minimal loss in effectiveness.

 

Navigating the Ship (work in progress)

Quick run through of what each part of the ship does and when it should be used.

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  1.  Pilot's Seat:
    Spoiler

     

  2. Navigation Panel:
    Spoiler

     

  3. Forward Artillery:
    Spoiler

     

  4. Side Turrets:
    Spoiler

     

  5. Exits:
    Spoiler

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    There are 4 exits throughout the ship identifiable with the double projection screens over a circle platform. Interacting with this lets you leave the ship into archwing mode.

  6. Slingshot:
    Spoiler

     

  7. Forge:
    Spoiler

     

     

 

Weapons

 

  • Apoc [Zetki] (slow fire rate automatic, highest damage, slow projectiles, crit dependent, high heat)
    Spoiler

    28996db4a1.png

    The Apoc is a weapon loved by some and hated by others. The slow projectile speed of the weapon makes it near unusable by players with higher ping and in order to lead your shots takes a lot of experience with the weapon as the in-game lead indicator is often inaccurate. This weapon is extreemly strong while using the predator and section density avionics as most of it's damage is in crit allowing it to kill even the highest level fighters in 2-4 hits (if you can land them).

  • Carcinnox [Zetki/Lavan] (high fire rate automatic, high output, fast projectiles, quite accurate, medium heat)
    Spoiler

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    The Carcinnox is my weapon of choice because of it's versatility. It's damage output is second only to a well built Apoc while being much easier to use by both pilot and gunners. This weapon absolutely destroys healing bubbles even after you stop shooting, and charges munitions vortex faster than any other weapon. It's heat is also quite manageable especially while using the Lavan Carcinnox which I recommend to newer ships.

  • Photor [Zetki] ("the lazer light", pinpoint accuracy, small hitbox, moderate damage, high heat)
    Spoiler

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    The Photor

  • Cryophon [Vidar] (semi auto, fulmin style projectiles, low range, high burst damage, high heat/cool delay)
    Spoiler

    18f9ca1356.png

    The Cryophon is the "one shot one kill" type weapon but lacks in range which can often require extra maneuvering for the ship to be in range. This weapons is good against single fighters but struggles in many situations as it doesn't have punch through and is near useless for popping healing bubbles and charging Munitions Vortex.

 

  • Pulsar [Zetki/Vidar] (burst fire, low damage, high accuracy/range)
    Spoiler

    e4122dbb30.png

    PH

 

Avionics

 

Avionics by rating WIP(ratings all based on personal preference and should be taken as a guideline not absolute)

Spoiler

Mouse over the pictures to read a description of the avionic. I will list every type of avionic but only the houses I deem worth equipping if there are multiple.

S(must haves)

Munitions Vortex, Zetki Hyperstrike, Particle Ram

A+

A

B+

B

C+

C

D(don't use)

Avionics are probably the most crucial part to any railjack and it's important to learn how to upgrade them efficiently early on.

Upgrading:

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Upgrades can only be done through the 2 upgrade buttons near the center of the avionics window. Clicking the avionics themselves will only allow you to swap that avionic out for a different one.
Upgrading the grid allows for a permanent increase to any avionic inserted into that slot which can surpasses the capacity of the avionic itself.
The grid upgrades do not consume capacity so if you are struggling with capacity focus on your grid.
Each grid slot costs 200, 600, and 1800 Dirac to upgrade ranks 1-3 respectively and these upgrades will last forever.
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Dirac is a resource that functions very similarly to endo in the normal game but is much easier to obtain. Early on you might be a little low on dirac so I would suggest upgrading grids behind important avionics and the avionics themselves in a way that upgrades them only a few times over many more avionics because of how the price increases exponentially.
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This screenshot of my Munitions Voretex has many ui elements on it.

  1. The number to the right of the name shows how many times the avionic itself has been upgraded(you can also see this while trading avionics so take note of that).
  2. The number 6 on the right shows how much avionics capacity it will use while slotted increasing by 1 for each upgrade on the avionic itself.
  3. The dots below the icon represent the avionics upgrades(solid diamonds), and the grid upgrades(dashed diamonds).

 

Builds

 

  1. Minimum avionics to run veil decently
    Spoiler

    This build is very minimal using extremely common avionics except for maybe Munitions Vortex and Void Cloak. These avionics as is only take up 33 capacity when maxed so you can very easily put in any higher versions you have found or fill empty slots with other avionics you want. This build will fit with the very basic sigma series reactor but should be upgraded as soon as possible.
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  2. Mid level build for the majority of players who want to host
    Spoiler

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  3. Endgame min maxing
    Spoiler

    The build for the min-maxers with high roll vidar reactors and all the rare avionics. Focusing on maximum damage output while still being near indestructible, any content becomes trivial and can even be solo'd easily. I may swap out Void Cloak for Battle Stations when I get it for the bonus 75% turret damage buff, but both aren't necessary, and should be swapped to fit the situation.bc69cee87b.png

  4. Intrinsic farming
    Spoiler

    The key component in intrinsic farming is to spend as much time fighting enemies as possible, so I focus on the tactical avionics for my ship to drastically reduce the time spent maintaining the ship. This also gets much easier with Engineering rank 10 which allows you to remotely repair things on your ship.
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Intrinsic Farming (work in progress)

Archwing

Archwing is a nice optional play style for railjack, especially if other main roles of the mission have already been taken. Currently though, archwing is very unbalanced to the point where enemies do so much damage that Amesha's damage immunity is basically required and Cyngas is by far the best weapon because of how low damage archguns are until a sufficient amount of status is proc'd on the enemy.

Amesha: Focus on strength, efficiency, and duration/range are also useful.

Spoiler

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Cyngas: Status and multishot should be as high as possible with fire rate and slash to promote the particle status' exponential stacking effect.

Spoiler


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A riven is highly recommended with multishot > status chance > damage to push status even further. I think you could replace this with Sabot Rounds or another 60/60 elemental mod.
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Basic --> Advanced Tips
 

Work in Progress

  • Railjack Minimap

    Spoiler

    Press 'M' before going on a turret or piloting to bring up a map of the ship to see where people are and more easily see enemies on the ship and hull ruptures.
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  • Tactical menu details

    Spoiler

    aee518b3d5.png
    The bar on the top represents your flux, remember that icon means flux because it is used in a few spots.
    In the middle is your tactical avionics and you can activate them by clicking the icon, it will show the remaining duration and cool-down near the icon after it has been used.
     

  • Organizing your loot

    Spoiler

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    Most people don't have the resources to craft every good item they get and with the sheer amount of loot there is, you need to sort it somehow. If I find a weapon or part I wish to craft later or just bookmark for later I will partially repair the item using the extremely common resources and the you can visibly see the repair meter while scrolling through the list.

  • Healing bubbles

    Spoiler

    Healing bubbles that appear in the veil can be quite an issue for players who haven't seen them before or don't handle them well.
    Healing bubbles work in a very similar way to nullifier bubbles. High fire rate is the best way to shrink them as damage doesn't make them shrink any faster.
    Once the bubble has shrunken to a very small size, it will explode in a bright light and is gone, if it isn't completely destroyed they can begin growing again after a short time.
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    A healing bubble as it is shot from a crewship. It cannot be shot during this time but I recommend tracking it to watch for the next stage shown below.
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    The moment the projectile explodes and the healing bubble spawns. It will instantly begin growing unless it is hit by a player. This is the best time to break a bubble as it will almost instantly destroy it.

     

  • Advanced piloting tricks
    Spoiler

    If you have setup your Boost and Maneuver hotkeys as I showed earlier in the guide, you may have noticed that there are different ways to combine the two keys to get different drift movement.

    W --> Boost --> Maneuver:

    This will provide a smoother forward motion with controls staying relatively still and not requiring much correction.

    Maneuver --> W --> Boost:

    This will launch you very quickly forwards initially, but if held, your reticle will need to be kept downwards to correct a strong turn up. Turning sensitivity is a little higher than the previous combination.

    Maneuver --> A/D --> Boost:

    A very fast sideways lunge useful for dodging homing projectiles that can be shaken off with maneuver. This will also allow you to turn the ship substantially faster but is quite difficult to control. You can also hold the opposite direction you initially started this maneuver and if done correctly your ship can be slowed to a near stop while still boosting for the bonus dmg/heat reduction from gunnery, be warned the launch afterwards is almost guaranteed to be strong doing this.

    A/D --> Boost --> Maneuver:

    A useful sideways maneuver for circling something in a wide radius. Can be used to go around objectives to find the radiators or to spin around a crewship to line up for a forward artillery shot.

    S --> Maneuver --> Boost --> W:

    My most used drift because of it's ability to return you to almost the same position you started in while giving the benefits of the gunnery dmg/heat reduction. Pairs very well with munitions vortex as you can use this maneuver right after launching it and deal that 50% bonus turret damage to the munitions charge allowing it to destroy enemies after 1-3 seconds of charging.

  • Solo strategies

    Spoiler

     

  • Crewship take down strategies

    Spoiler

     

Edited by Zepharia
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  • 2 weeks later...

Solid guide. I've been thinking of putting together one myself.
I like Railjack, and I have a few thoughts I'd like to share.

Void Cloak sounds good, but it doesn't prevent Ramsleds from getting fired and from homing in and hitting your RJ.
It also slows your ship to make avoiding Ramsleds even harder. I would avoid using it if you have access to better stuff.

Void Hole is a really good ability avionic, and is in my opinion the best ability avionic. It deals cold damage and procs cold
with almost 100% chance. It's essentially a RJ Vauban Vortex with slower suck in. However it's rare and only drops in Veil.
So I would advice using Tether instead if you don't have Void Hole. Tether is a bit harder to use since the projectile can be shot. But it has stronger
tethering than Void Hole does, It can even control Ramsleds where Void Hole will only slow them down.

Seeker Volley is really good for early earth missions, It will basically kill all the fighters you need to kill in 1 or 2 shots.
Although beware of asteroid fields or crewships soaking up missiles.

As for RJ weapons:
Apoc is an inferior Carcinnox in every way.
Pulsar would be decent if not for the fact that it's status will send fighters on a wild shaking ride, making hitting them harder than it needs to.
Cryophon is a pretty good weapon on a fast ship that can keep up with fighters and if you have the relevant avionics (Zetki Hyperstrike and Section Density) which allows it to one hit fighters on a crit in early veil.
Photor is surprisingly good. It bypasses the Veil Ramsled shields easily and deals relevant damage.

There is only one choice for Ordinance weapons and it's the Tycho Seeker.
Tycho Seeker solves so many problems for you, just bear in mind it takes a little time to lock on, which you can see on the crossairs.
It takes out Outriders in 1 hit.
It deshields shield crewships in 1 or 2 hits.
It kills all fighters in 1hit (Elite fighters fill shoot flares unless crowdcontrolled, Helloooo Void Hole)
It kills ramsleds in 1 hit if it doesn't hit the shield.
Contrast that to Milati, which functions as a dumbfire rocket shotgun, which has no use case
and the Galvarc, which fires 3 homing fire beams at the nearest enemies in front of you, but the range is also pitifully short.
And so is the firing duration.

A quick word about Archwings.
If you're in veil, and you don't use Amesha, then don't leave the RJ. You're just gonna die miserably and alone.
Archwing weapons are worse than Mk3 RJ weapons, and maybe slightly behind or equal to Mk2 weapons.
If you do have Amesha, then it's worth jumping outside in AW even if you have a terrible weapon. Amesha 3 slow is really good for making aiming easier for the railjack.
Archwing melee weapons are bugged so only Veritux and it's variants will actually home in on enemies.

I also want to talk about Intrinsics. The order you level intrinsics matter depending on if you're a solo player or a group player.
My perspective is from a solo player. I recommend getting Gunnery 1 first to help with aiming. Then Engineering 1 to make repairing faster.
If you are good at leading your shots without a marker then you can take Engineering 1 first and go straight to Piloting.
Invest into Piloting 1>2>3 so you can boost and dash with your RJ. This is to make getting around faster, which you will need since you have terrible Sigma Engines.
Level Gunnery to 4 so you can Slingshot directly into a Crewship.
Level Tactical 4 so you can teleport back to the RJ after having slingshottet into a Crewship.
Level Gunnery 5, so you can avoid having to Slingshot into Crewships to begin with and just kill them in one hit if you target the sides of their engines.
Level Engineering 5 so you can forge Dome Charges for missions where you have to kill 6 Crewships or give you breathing room for missing a few times.
the rest of the intrinsic tree doesn't really matter so think of it as optional.
Piloting 7 makes you boost longer,
Gunnery 7 makes you shoot longer
Tactical 7 doesn't do anything for you since you probably haven't gotten the avionics to take advantage of the bonuses yet.
Engineering 7 makes you forge faster and more.
All Intrinsic 8 makes your archwing better, and that actually also applies to Archwing outside of the Railjack mission type.
I recommend getting Tactical 8 for more blinks and Piloting 8 for more speed.
Finally laugh at the rest of the avionics, because only Engineering 10 is worth having for remote repairs.
Is 2000 damage on ramming really good in veil? No. Zetki Mark 3 Cryophon crits for 9k with avionics and that doesn't 1 hit elite fighters in late veil
Are you gonna grind 700 something intrinsics for that? (Yes because you need that mastery)
Tactical 10 allows you to teleport to someone who didn't bring a stealth frame to a boarding mission and got downed.
Then you can show up and they can ressurect in your face, wasting your time teleporting back to the RJ.
And the "autoaim" snap targeting thing lasts for 0.5 seconds. Good for reorienting the ship, but it's minor quality of life stuff.

One last thing. The Railjack can actually suffer Cold status too. It won't stun your ship, but it will freeze over a door so it can't open.

Woah that was a lot. Anyways that was my piggy bank worth of Railjack information.

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Bookmarking for future use. You have a different perspective on some things than what I have found elsewhere, but contrasting points of view are always good.

On that note, I read this article that suggested Lavan engines over Vidar because while they do have the lowest base speed increase, they have the highest boost increase. Given the size of these maps we often lumber around slowly at a given point and then Boost to the next. In that regard, it's possibly better to have Lavan engines especially if you pair with a max Ion Burn for base speed increase. On the other hand, having a high base speed just makes the whole thing feel better. The article does seem to agree with you on the Zekti shield though. :)

Overall, good work. I hope this guide continues to see further iteration.

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29 minutes ago, Sazero said:

As for RJ weapons:
Apoc is an inferior Carcinnox in every way.
Pulsar would be decent if not for the fact that it's status will send fighters on a wild shaking ride, making hitting them harder than it needs to.
Cryophon is a pretty good weapon on a fast ship that can keep up with fighters and if you have the relevant avionics (Zetki Hyperstrike and Section Density) which allows it to one hit fighters on a crit in early veil.
Photor is surprisingly good. It bypasses the Veil Ramsled shields easily and deals relevant damage.

I am thinking about RJ weapons and would like to know where I can find the source for your analysis that "Apoc is an inferior Carcinnox in every way.".

Also maybe there is a difference on which position a gun is placed. If you are the pilot you can move your whole ship to assist you aiming, you can prepare yourself better to engage distant target. As a gunner you might want something that is better at close ranges  that can fire fast and is more forgiving. With this reasoning you could say. For gunners Carcinox for the Pilot...

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For solo strategies:

In case there is mission, get the ship 5km, slinghshot there, do all the mission.

Kill enemies till crewships spawns, destroy all crewships. Then just obliterate regular enemis with your guns in your railjack.

 

Btw a juicy tip, frontal artillery if lans a hit on the engines of a crewship will produce an instant kill(the engine must be lighted) if its broken will not work. Im testing wich are the limits of this.

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24 minutes ago, FRTE_Ret5o said:

Btw a juicy tip, frontal artillery if lans a hit on the engines of a crewship will produce an instant kill(the engine must be lighted) if its broken will not work. Im testing wich are the limits of this.

This is my go-to method for taking out crewships when I duo with a friend. Shielded crewships need a couple of munitions to get rid of the shield, but that's cheaper than a dome charge. Then shove a dome charge up the engine and "poof!" no more crewship.

Except, occasionally, on Veil it takes two shots. Not sure why but I can land a perfect shot straight up the pipe and there is maybe a 30% chance I'll need another one. I'm using the Sigma Tycho Seeker Mk III, and it's not a healing bubble either. Just.... sometimes they dont seem to take all the damage.

Edited by Sentinel-14
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To answer your question about why I think Apoc is worse than Carcinnox.
They are both automatic machinegun type weapons.
And if you compare the stats on the same type, Apoc comes out worse.
To give a brief overview between them here are the relevant stats for Mark 3 Zetki Apoc and Mark 3 Zetki Carcinnox
Apoc                                   Carcinnox
Critical Chance 30%           Critical Chance 13%
Critical Multipler 2x             Critical Multiplier 2x
Fire Rate 8.33                     Fire Rate 15.00
Heat Accretion 40               Heat Accretion 20
Heat Capacity 1000            Heat Capacity 1000
Status 10%                          Status :26%

Total Damage 395               Total Damage 222
Plasma 276.5                       Plasma 28
Particle 118.5                       Chem 167

Apoc has over double the crit chance of Carcinnox, which is it's only advantage
It fires slightly faster than half the speed of Carcinnox
and it has lower Status Chance. All around sounds pretty equal
Here's the rub, the projectiles are slower than Carcinnox, making it harder to hit fighters
Not only that but heat to damage ratio Carcinnox deals more damage
with Apocs 395 per 40 heat and Carcinnox doing 444 per 40 heat.
Apoc will crit more often, but it will also miss more easily
and you spend more heat per miss than with Carcinnox.

And the final nail in the coffin: Since they are both Zetki in this example both of their random stat modifier is firing speed
Since Carcinnox has higher fire rate it benefits more from the fire rate multiplier modifier than Apoc does.
Chemical damage also functions as radiation procs for RJ (making enemies fight each other).
While Particle functions as Viral except much less potent. (7.5% increased damage per proc)

It's the same situation if they were Lavan. (Lavan types have the same stat modifier as Zetki but lower weapon stats)
It could be argued that Apoc is better in comparison to Carcinnox if they were Vidar (Vidar type stat modifier is damage.)
But Vidar type weapons have lower weapon stats than Zetki, and the reduced heat cost per shot simply translates
to you having to fire more bullets at the same enemy before it dies.

Additionally, increasing the damage a large target would take (say a crewship) is also not worth it.
Crewships all gets one shot from the forward artillery cannon up to late veil in which case it takes two shots.
Even if it was worth it, the Apoc would be a bad weapon to do it with given it's 10% status chance, or alternatively
it would simply be faster to just board the crewship and blow it up from the inside.
Compare that to the chemical proc which, while it won't kill the crewship, will present a second target for fighters to shoot at,
and vice versa more targets for the crewship to shoot at.

Sorry for the long post again.

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33 minutes ago, Sazero said:


Sorry for the long post again.

No. this was exactly what I wanted to see.

I liked the Damage/heat thing, because I was wondering how heat is calculated. I was wondering if the actual bullet costs 40 heat or 1 second of holding the trigger costs 40 heat.

If it is holding trigger time generating heat, the faster the Zetki gun is, the more effective it would be.

Because of the large health pool and my experience from the past that you cannot kill a crewships with standard weapons(fired it to "0"health and it won t pop), I don t even think about using the standard weapons for a crew ship. Which means I am only looking for a gun that deals with fighters.

And since armor penetration is not a thing in Warframe, the APOC, which sounds slow and heavy hitting, just has some nice animation and sound effects. Maybe with the Corpus or Sentients as enemies it might become more relevant.

 

Interesting thing that happend recently: My Dome gunner didn t hit the Crewship properly and it had some health left, I fired a Missile out of reflex and killed it. I didn t know that this works now. Maybe there is a rule within the mechanics: Crewships can only be killed when they got hit by the Dome Gun at least one time.

You can oneshot Crewship in Veil if you hit one of the engine pod they have at the side .

I also have Maxed Forward Artillery Z installed (if that matters).

 

 

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It is my experience that on the highest veil missions, Crewships regularly survive with 10-20% hp without the Forward Artillery avionic.
And while I have never run that avionic, I could see you being able to one hit Crewships with it. Although theres only 1-3 nodes where
the avionic will actually have an impact.

I will admit that me saying Apoc is a worse Carcinnox makes it sound like it's a bad and terrible weapon when the reality is that Carcinnox has
a minor if not negligible advantage at the moment. But then again, maybe my viewpoint is warped by the gravitational pull of Void Hole 🙂
Buy my book "How I learned to embrace Black Holes and stopped worrying about Railjack weaponry"

Oh and heat cost is based on a per bullet case. Except for Photor where it's tied to fire rate.
And while higher fire rate won't increase the damage per heat ratio, it can be the difference between shooting for 10 seconds on a enemy for a kill
and 5 seconds.

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I would like to put blackout pulse in A+. Why? Because it’s actually a good avionic to blow up those asteroids for easy grabs because the pulse deals damage high enough to destroy them. It’s also a good counter mechanic for those pesky Elite Cutters countermeasures because the pulse disable their abilities allowing Tycho Seeker to land a hit.

I also want to put Fiery Phoenix in the lowest Tier Possible. It deals low damage (tickles Veil enemies), the speed bonus is barely noticeable, and the worst thing about it has an energy drain per second.

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Hmm, I wouldn't say Blackout Pulse is A+ material. Not that it is useless mind you,
It does help deal with Elite Cutters in disabling them, but so does Tether, which can drop on all planets
cost 8 capacity and 50 energy, but CC's 10 enemies at a time, and is persistent, so if you kill some of the tethered enemies
and more fly in range they'll get grabbed. Tethers weak point is that the projectile can be shot so it's more fragile
I would argue that Countermeasures or Munition Vortex would be better, although personally I wouldn't slot them in either.
My verdict on it is: Use only if you have nothing better and you have all your bare essentials avionics already equipped.

I will agree with you on Fiery Phoenix though. Without writing a paper on it, I'll just say, it's very low impact






 

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Formatting request, I use the forum's dark theme, and I don't know what happened to the text of the guide in the OP, but it's black text on a rather dark background.

Sz3KnWQ.png

Can you maybe select all non-colored text of the OP and change text color from black to automatic? That might help us dark themers be able to read it easier.

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5 hours ago, SephirothWS said:

Formatting request, I use the forum's dark theme, and I don't know what happened to the text of the guide in the OP, but it's black text on a rather dark background.

Sz3KnWQ.png

Can you maybe select all non-colored text of the OP and change text color from black to automatic? That might help us dark themers be able to read it easier.

Sorry I didn't even know there was a dark theme but I set it to black because for some reason the automatic color is very grey on these forums and is also difficult to read sadly. I'll see if I can change it up somehow.

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16 hours ago, Zepharia said:

Sorry I didn't even know there was a dark theme

No worries, most people tend to overlook that when a forum theme defaults to blindingly-bright light themes. You can toggle your forum theme in the footer next to the Language menu just above Invision Community's Powered by line in the footer of the forum.

That said, Thank you for the fix, I do appreciate it.

Edited by SephirothWS
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