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Rework Concepts for Nyx


(PSN)CrysJaL
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I posted something similar a few weeks ago on Fandom and I thought I'd dump it here. Not that I anticipate any changes being made now...

Passive

This should remain the same. I think everyone more or less agrees on this or just wants it improved slightly because apparently its a bit buggy.

1: Psychic bolts

Alot of people don't like Psychic bolts but I was amused to see someone else below had the same idea I had which was making it a first ability. Psychic bolts is a solid first ability even if its not worth much as a secondary one. However, considering armour shred is already a thing via Ash's Seeking Shuriken I believe the armour/shield stripping should be removed. instead now this ability is going to debuff enemies with "mental vulnerability". 

Mental Vulnerability causes enemies affected by Nyx's abilities to be affected for greater duration and strength. I think you could also justify other effects here like maybe resetting status effects on enemies but I wouldn't worry about that personally. Psychic bolts as a damaging ability with the basic Mental Vulnerability debuff is an ability people will use if only for the debuff and radiation procs. 

I'd also like for the number of bolts to be affected by power strength and for each bolt to only target enemies not affected by vulnerability, with excess bolts exploding for minor radiation damage after a period of not finding enemies. It would feel like a powerful enemy affecting ability then, even if it is not a strongly damaging one as by spamming it a bit you could guarantee full coverage of the effect.

2: Mind Control

I propose that Mind Control is moved to be the second ability and now becomes a defensive one as much as an offensive one.

Now, multiple enemies, up to three at a time can be controlled but each must be controlled independently. For balancing purposes the Augment now has a reduced damage buff for each enemy controlled.

The defensive portion of this ability is akin to Trinity's link and Nekros's shield of Shadows. Each enemy under control will take damage received in place of Nyx up to a 90% reduction. You could work this multiple ways, either each enemy counts as a flat 30% reduction or each cuts daamge dealt by 50% for a total of 87.5% at three targets controlled. Either way this becomes a strong defensive ability for Nyx and probably her strongest damaging ability.

3: I want to give Nyx a new third ability. I had a few ideas like a slow, marking an enemy to be attacked by allies, a psychic scream or putting them to sleep. There are plenty of ideas out there already though aren't there? 😉 so I'll leave it blank here.

4: Let's get rid of Assimilate. Admittedly its a powerful ability but ultimately with the augment its just an invulnerability button which doesn't really fit the idea. Instead I'd like the ultimate to now be a slightly buffed version of Chaos, with either longer duration or range or both to compensate the energy cost and new position. It is really her bread and butter cc ability already and stands well as an ultimate ability already. I think it's more than justified to make this proposal.

 

*

 

So there you have it. This proposal is obviously unfinished but I'm not especially bothered by that. The proposal grants Nyx some tank effects on par with Trinity or Nekros and increased damage potential. Psychic bolts is fixed to be a debuffing tool with some impressive damage potential with the right numbers. Chaos becoming the ultimate makes sense to me and removing Assimilate waas common sense.  

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1. Psychic bolts already debuff enemies by armor stripping, which in this damage meta, basically means nothing is going to be alive long enough to benefit from additional debuffing that's exclusive to nyx, especially when most of her abilities don't do consistent enough damage. Chaos being friendly fire, Absorb being entirely situational depending on your augment or how far the enemies are from your bubble, and the bolts themselves. For the non-generalized enemies, you're basically useless anyway so it wouldn't matter. 

2. The only real problems with mind control are that the AI is awful and the augment for the extra damage isn't built into the ability. 

3. I don't know why you're asking for ideas on your own feedback/concept thread.

4. You might as well just give her irradiating disarm, because that's basically what chaos is, a lower tiered RD. Removing Assimilate removes an entire build and playstyle and just gives her even less in terms of viability or just in general gameplay. 

Edited by TheGuyver
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Considering armour is getting reworked, arguing that the armour shred must stay because of the meta is a bit pointless. If it did stay it would just be Shurken with a different damage type and without needing the augment which is dull and why I think it would have to be removed. Reworks are just as much about matching to a warframe's identity as much as making them stronger. Ash's 1, but radiation damage, isn't exactly original or innovative is it? Making it a functional ability and tacking something on it that provided some degree of synergy was the goal which I believe I achieved.

I don't know what you want me to say to that comment on Mind Control, I agree? That's why I added to it? I moved the ability to the second slot and added to it to make it a defensive ability as much as it was offensive before. I suppose one could argue that the augment should be changed aswell. So you only had 3 controllable targets and the defensive effects are provided by the augment. Then it would be more about the defensive effects gained rather than the offensive ones and the poor AI wouldn't really matter.

My comment as to an alternative 3 isn't asking for other people to put forward their ideas. I made that comment for an entirely different reason I won't disclose but which a few people will know. Considering I stated a few basic ideas in that paragraph aswell... I just couldn't be bothered this time, this was a quick thing to write up for me.

Assimilate isn't a playstyle. It's an invulnerability button that lets you kill low level enemies after a while and has very little to do with mind control as a theme. It might work on a different warframe themed around being a tank at least, but it doesn't work with Nyx's theme. it also limits agility and mobility, something DE have already said they don't like. I cannot see it surviving a serious rework. It's a cheap ability that doesn't hold muster so many years on when compared to more modern warframes and I believe an unacknowledged reason Nyx is considered boring. Near permanent invulnerability in any game is a surefire way to eliminate excitement.

Chaos is more of a radial radiation proc than Irradiating disarm but I agree with the general statement. Having said that it is very powerful already and while not fool proof does provide a great deal of cc. I suppose you could include a multitude of different random effects instead. So maybe some enemies get put to sleep, some are feared, others go berserk and attack each other, others start dealing self damage to themselves etc. That'd certainly fit the description "chaos" at least, but I'm not super attracted to adding elements of rng to abilities like that. A radial mind affecting ability seems the logical choice for a mind controlling/manipulating warframe though. I just don't see DE making a massive change to it when it is fairly functional in its current form. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)CrysJaL said:

Considering armour is getting reworked, arguing that the armour shred must stay because of the meta is a bit pointless. If it did stay it would just be Shurken with a different damage type and without needing the augment which is dull and why I think it would have to be removed. Reworks are just as much about matching to a warframe's identity as much as making them stronger. Ash's 1, but radiation damage, isn't exactly original or innovative is it? Making it a functional ability and tacking something on it that provided some degree of synergy was the goal which I believe I achieved.

To assume that changes to the damage system wouldn't follow changes to the armor system is silly. We already deal too much damage and DE has been talking about changing the damage system. So no, it's not pointless because our power creep is ridiculous. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)CrysJaL said:

 

My comment as to an alternative 3 isn't asking for other people to put forward their ideas. I made that comment for an entirely different reason I won't disclose but which a few people will know. Considering I stated a few basic ideas in that paragraph aswell... I just couldn't be bothered this time, this was a quick thing to write up for me.

 

Then why did you reply with four paragraphs in less than an hour?

1 hour ago, (PS4)CrysJaL said:

 

Assimilate isn't a playstyle. It's an invulnerability button that lets you kill low level enemies after a while and has very little to do with mind control as a theme. It might work on a different warframe themed around being a tank at least, but it doesn't work with Nyx's theme. it also limits agility and mobility, something DE have already said they don't like. I cannot see it surviving a serious rework. It's a cheap ability that doesn't hold muster so many years on when compared to more modern warframes and I believe an unacknowledged reason Nyx is considered boring. Near permanent invulnerability in any game is a surefire way to eliminate excitement.

 

Assimilate is 100% a playstyle or people wouldn't purposely build around it. By removing it, you're removing options and in a game like this you don't want to do that. 

 

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11 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

To assume that changes to the damage system wouldn't follow changes to the armor system is silly. We already deal too much damage and DE has been talking about changing the damage system. So no, it's not pointless because our power creep is ridiculous. 

Then why did you reply with four paragraphs in less than an hour?

Assimilate is 100% a playstyle or people wouldn't purposely build around it. By removing it, you're removing options and in a game like this you don't want to do that. 

 

The argument about armour is secondary to the primary reason for removing the armour stripping. I removed it because it would be functionally identical to Ash's 1... with an augment at that. I mean, unless you want all our warframes to have the same abilities then a change must be made. I think the game would get pretty boring though.

I replied with four paragraphs because I wanted to explain what i had to say and I had the time to do so. Responding to what you have to say is slightly different to thinking up a new interesting and original concept for something. I had an idea I posted on FANDOM but it was very similar to Night form Equinox's 2 so I didn't put it in. Also, five, there were five paragraphs. You can tell because of the gaps between the words and stuff. You can count, yes?

Assimilate is built for because it's an invincibility button. It's patently an overpowered system barely held in check by the mobility restriction on the augment. It's not fun, nor is it engaging or exciting to use which for a videogame is a major criticism. The fact it is something built for isn't an argument to begin with though. By your argument any warframe with any ridiculous overpowered ability would be acceptable because people would build for it and they would do so because that ability was very strong. Ember's World on Fire comes to mind here. Why remove it? after all people build for it right? It was really good at what it did. That must mean that it's something that must stay at all costs by the exact same rationalisation. Invincibility, autotargetting turrets, any free gameplay process is something to be removed. There has to be some level of engagement otherwise what is even the point.

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Doesnt exactly fix her problems or her inconsistencies for example ai still being garbo and well honestly what can you actually do to make assimilate stronger? Add more range? Make the ability deal damage itself? Make enemies affected take more damage? This is very niche although i like the idea of moving psychic bolts to the 1 and mind control to 2 there just doesnt seem to be a reason actually do that but it is an interesting change.

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17 hours ago, weeaboopotato said:

Doesnt exactly fix her problems or her inconsistencies for example ai still being garbo and well honestly what can you actually do to make assimilate stronger? Add more range? Make the ability deal damage itself? Make enemies affected take more damage? This is very niche although i like the idea of moving psychic bolts to the 1 and mind control to 2 there just doesnt seem to be a reason actually do that but it is an interesting change.

It was mainly to reflect the tier of the abilities. Mind Control, especially in the altered form I suggested was certainly not first ability tier while Psychic bolts either in its current form or as I suggest is really more in line with a first ability in my opinion. 

That's exactly my issue with assimilate, it's overpowered and doesn't fit the theme. Another alternative form of mind control/manipulation in the kit makes much more sense than keeping it.

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On 2020-02-28 at 6:54 AM, (PS4)CrysJaL said:

I posted something similar a few weeks ago on Fandom and I thought I'd dump it here. Not that I anticipate any changes being made now...

Passive

This should remain the same. I think everyone more or less agrees on this or just wants it improved slightly because apparently its a bit buggy.

1: Psychic bolts

Alot of people don't like Psychic bolts but I was amused to see someone else below had the same idea I had which was making it a first ability. Psychic bolts is a solid first ability even if its not worth much as a secondary one. However, considering armour shred is already a thing via Ash's Seeking Shuriken I believe the armour/shield stripping should be removed. instead now this ability is going to debuff enemies with "mental vulnerability". 

Mental Vulnerability causes enemies affected by Nyx's abilities to be affected for greater duration and strength. I think you could also justify other effects here like maybe resetting status effects on enemies but I wouldn't worry about that personally. Psychic bolts as a damaging ability with the basic Mental Vulnerability debuff is an ability people will use if only for the debuff and radiation procs. 

I'd also like for the number of bolts to be affected by power strength and for each bolt to only target enemies not affected by vulnerability, with excess bolts exploding for minor radiation damage after a period of not finding enemies. It would feel like a powerful enemy affecting ability then, even if it is not a strongly damaging one as by spamming it a bit you could guarantee full coverage of the effect.

2: Mind Control

I propose that Mind Control is moved to be the second ability and now becomes a defensive one as much as an offensive one.

Now, multiple enemies, up to three at a time can be controlled but each must be controlled independently. For balancing purposes the Augment now has a reduced damage buff for each enemy controlled.

The defensive portion of this ability is akin to Trinity's link and Nekros's shield of Shadows. Each enemy under control will take damage received in place of Nyx up to a 90% reduction. You could work this multiple ways, either each enemy counts as a flat 30% reduction or each cuts daamge dealt by 50% for a total of 87.5% at three targets controlled. Either way this becomes a strong defensive ability for Nyx and probably her strongest damaging ability.

3: I want to give Nyx a new third ability. I had a few ideas like a slow, marking an enemy to be attacked by allies, a psychic scream or putting them to sleep. There are plenty of ideas out there already though aren't there? 😉 so I'll leave it blank here.

4: Let's get rid of Assimilate. Admittedly its a powerful ability but ultimately with the augment its just an invulnerability button which doesn't really fit the idea. Instead I'd like the ultimate to now be a slightly buffed version of Chaos, with either longer duration or range or both to compensate the energy cost and new position. It is really her bread and butter cc ability already and stands well as an ultimate ability already. I think it's more than justified to make this proposal.

 

*

 

So there you have it. This proposal is obviously unfinished but I'm not especially bothered by that. The proposal grants Nyx some tank effects on par with Trinity or Nekros and increased damage potential. Psychic bolts is fixed to be a debuffing tool with some impressive damage potential with the right numbers. Chaos becoming the ultimate makes sense to me and removing Assimilate waas common sense.  

I made a post today just like this scroll up through the forums sorted by time posted, or reddit i posted it there to except without a passive on reddit.

I like your idea, but in my opinion she needs a full fledged rework of her current 1st, 2nd, and slightly her 4th

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