2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

35 minutes ago, eboomer said:

You're being WAY too harsh.  This is roughly a 25% nerf.  I doubt that will suddenly make energize useless or anything.  And there are a lot of other ways to recharge your energy (energizing dash, hunter adrenaline, arcane brave).  I think more realistically it will mean somewhat less reliance on just arcane energize.

And they're saying the shield gate gives brief invulnerability.  So I think Hildryn will have stronger shield gating, and therefor will still have similar reason to be used.

On Chroma, he will be not as straight forward to use to kill bosses.  Which is not good in my opinion, but that doesn't mean he's "dead" (outside of organized Eidolon hunts at least, for which this actually really does do him in).  I suspect that keeping his Vex Armor running and passively allowing enemy damage to buff him will still work similarly, since they are emphasizing it's a BRIEF period of invincibility.

Chill out.  We'll have to wait to see how all this shakes out in actual game play.

It's not the amount that's the problem, it's the cooldown. In fact, if it is long enough, Ivara will also be dead from this. And all of the other things you listed do nothing for frames like Ember, Ivara, Oberon, and anyone else that still has a drain over time and therefore has to rely on Arcane Energize to keep working. In fact, with the reduced amount, this might reduce Oberon to Eidolons/Plague Star/Operative Defence and nothing else, since Wisp will be a better healer who doesn't have to pay energy over time.

And unless they greatly improve Hildryn's passive, the changes to the arcanes will make her a lot worse at high levels, especially since they seemed to be implying a longer delay for fully depleted shields. EDIT: I re-read the shield changes. Hildryn is now guaranteed DoA with this update, as her invulnerability is way shorter than the delay for full shield depletion (unless they change her passive). Thus, not a single build for her, arcanes or not, will be able to save her if the runs out of shields.

As far as Chroma is concerned, the problem is that he was almost exclusively being used for Profit Taker and Eidolons. Now he will be down to just Profit Taker, which isn't much for him to do. Everything else in the game doesn't need his damage numbers, so the greater utility of other frames pushes him out of general content.

Now, if they rework a few systems (get rid of exponential energy drain across the board, buff Oberon's heal numbers, roll Chroma's 2&3 together and give a new ability, etc.), then maybe this won't be so bad. But they didn't talk about any of that. They didn't say anything about the frames that are dependent on the current arcane stats. They barely mentioned Chroma, and even then essentially said they weren't doing anything about it.

So unless they come out with another iteration (and especially if they come out with the 'cooldown' values on these arcanes), I am going to use what they have given us to draw conclusions. Which leads to what I said: a few frames will be borderline or completely unplayable at anything higher than low level.

Edited February 28, 2020 by -AoN-CanoLathra-

[mauvecow]

I know this is probably going to get lost in the discussion here, but I do want to share some concerns I have. context: Am MR28 and spend a lot of time tinkering with builds.

The status changes feel like good changes, but feel like they're missing the forest for the trees here: Status is not useful in most newer content. Do you want to fight Kuva Liches? That's great, but they are immune to status. Sentients, which are going to become more commonplace? Same problem. And so on.

If status immunity is not addressed, no amount of status changes will improve the viability status weapons for a large slice of the newer content that is being added.

This is also an indirect problem with Titania: Dex Pixia is a status weapon, and as consequence, it is remarkably weak on any (non damage gated) status immune target. I was genuinely hoping to hear about some Diwata buffs with the Titania updates but, alas. At the very least: range mods currently do not function on Diwata, and adding only 1 combo counter per hit may as well be nothing.

And, yeah, as people are noting: Arcane Energize is some of the only energy production that functions on frames that primarily use channeled abilities, such as Oberon or Titania. If it now occurs over a duration that is basically removing it from the game for those frames.

Edited February 28, 2020 by mauvecow

[Ex4ngunat3]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Upon Review, stats show truly the only people that saw Rising Tide to completion were our veterans, which was originally our intent to design content for veteran players.
However, to sustain the cost of future development and events like Scarlet Spear, accessibility is key and we have to adjust the barriers to entry for Railjack.

Not enough veterans to sustain the game. That is the most important issue you face. 

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Year after year we completely change things

May keep veterans interested, but drives away new players, solo players.

Maybe dial back on the veteran emphasis and dial up on the solo player experience.

Good Luck

 

[Borg1611]

2 minutes ago, WeaselBoy said:

Her passive is still 3 seconds of invuln vs the fraction of a second all other frames are getting.

It does not need to be changed. It is still vastly superior.

I'm guessing they mentioned that in the stream since the notes aren't very specific and just say "a brief time?" 

[Chrysura]

What's gonna happen to our rank 3 Arcanes though? Are they going to automatically be turned into rank 5? Or are they going to stay at rank 3 and we will just have to get more rank 0 arcanes so we can upgrade them manually? Right now you need 10 rank 0 arcanes to reach rank 3... is it gonna take 20 rank 0 arcanes to reach rank 5? 

Also is it going to say somewhere how long the cooldown is? While in mission or in the arcane description?

[Qamelion]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

Arcane Strike
On Rank 5: On Hit:
15% chance for +60% Attack Speed to Melee Weapons for 18s

I love you, DE! 😍

[Shade_Final]

1 minute ago, LordChronos said:

RIP chroma. Dead for sure now. 100%

You know enemies can still shoot you, right?

You don't even need to worry about them killing you, shield gating will ensure you get your armor buff.

Really, this only harms his usage for Eidolon hunts, it doesn't even kill him for it... If anything, this more-so kills Mirage when it comes to Eidolon hunts, seeing as you can no longer self proc something like Shock to get her light buff.

[Kylo.]

Just now, Vigil- said:

What's gonna happen to our rank 3 Arcanes though? Are they going to automatically be turned into rank 5? Or are they going to stay at rank 3 and we will just have to get more rank 0 arcanes so we can upgrade them manually? Right now you need 10 rank 0 arcanes to reach rank 3... is it gonna take 20 rank 0 arcanes to reach rank 5? 

 

Yes

You need 5 + 6 for 3->5

[--END--Rikutatis]

"As a result of this overall systemic change, Weapons with Stagger will be getting approximately a 20% buff in Damage, with any weapons with AOE receiving a 50% Radial Damage Falloff from central impact."

Everyone that was crying about killing themselves a couple times per mission because they couldn't be a little more careful where they aim can enjoy their halved damage now. I guess no brain cells (or sense of failure) is allowed in Warframe.

50% damage falloff on the AoE component is really harsh, considering many of them weren't even that amazing to begin with. I guess we'll see which AoE weapons will be converted to stagger weapons now... I'm thinking of stuff like ignis wraith, kuva nukor, amprex, etc... as long as ALL AoE weapons are nerfed like this, then it should be more fair. 

[Cephalon_Baphoma]

3 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

If you're going to respond to my post, you could at least say something relevant

alright, Hidryn wont be looked at because her passive is fine, she gets 3 seconds instead of a fraction of a second, giving her time to regen shields.

[(XBOX)Catch Lightning]

So when is stealth getting fixed?

Also when is Mirage going to stop being bugged in Grendel Missions?

[Kylo.]

Just now, --END--Rikutatis said:

"As a result of this overall systemic change, Weapons with Stagger will be getting approximately a 20% buff in Damage, with any weapons with AOE receiving a 50% Radial Damage Falloff from central impact."

Everyone that was crying about killing themselves a couple times per mission because they couldn't be a little more careful where they aim can enjoy their halved damage now. I guess no brain cells (or sense of failure) is allowed in Warframe.

50% damage falloff on the AoE component is really harsh, considering many of them weren't even that amazing to begin with. I guess we'll see which AoE weapons will be converted to stagger weapons now... I'm thinking of stuff like ignis wraith, kuva nukor, amprex, etc... as long as ALL AoE weapons are nerfed like this, then it should be more fair. 

Technically it's just 40% less damage because it's 50% of 120% (100% + 20%).

Also, nice white background on your text there.

[Cephalon_Umbra]

Not happy about that Arcane Energize mega NERF

[Gailus]

1 minute ago, Cephalon_Baphoma said:

alright, Hidryn wont be looked at because her passive is fine, she gets 3 seconds instead of a fraction of a second, giving her time to regen shields.

Well, her passive also makes her overshields negate the usual bypassing from toxin, gas, and slash procs. That on its own is what makes Hildryn a viable frame despite relying solely on shields to survive.

[baoyouming]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This change completely removes the chance of killing yourself

If you want to remove self-damage from weapons that's fine, but then can you give us some tool or gear item specifically for self-damage? There are two situations I can personally think of in which self-damage is highly useful. First, selfish Chroma DPS builds. Being able to rely on yourself rather than enemies to get your Vex Armor buff up and maxed has been a staple of Chroma play for a long time, especially in Eidolon hunting, and in any situation where it takes too long for enemies to damage you or you don't want to risk them doing so much damage that you die (just for a chance at that buff). Second, and this applies to far more players than the Chroma situation, is self-killing to revive. There are times in missions where neither /unstuck nor operator fixes a bug, BUT killing yourself and reviving does. Without this option we're left with sitting there unintentionally leeching until the mission ends or just aborting and losing all our progress through no fault of our own. And if you still don't want a self-damage option then can you implement a self-kill command at least?

59 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Liches gain no anger and cannot spawn in missions they don't own. In other words, accompanying someone else to their lich mission that your own lich doesn't also own stalls your lich progress. Disincentivizing playing with friends like this in a co-op game seems... unwise.

I sincerely hope they don't change this. Not aggroing your own lich is one of the main reasons I switched from solo to group murmur farming. Even with a full squad, having to deal with max lvl enemies and lichs in every mission because you kept aggroing and lvling up your lich (since the only way not to level them is to ignore them until the mission finishes) gets real annoying real fast. Because of this feature, I've never had to max lvl a lich before killing it when I didn't want to. Now I realize some people prefer to aggro and attempt their lich as many times as possible, but I think both options should still be available as options, rather than forcing everyone to have to aggro and deal with their lich constantly. As for the players who want to constantly aggro their lich and group farm murmurs? They can do what I've already seen done in the groups I've been in: host, declare in recruit chat which planets you're doing/want to do murmurs on, or just ask the host if they can select their missions for the group. It would be nice if the murmur farm wasn't so long though. That would be a change I'd welcome.

 

Apart from these issues I look forward to most of the changes mentioned in the post, especially 100x restore blueprints. No more simultaneously crafting medium and large restores just to deal with the time it takes to craft as many as I want to have.

[SacredSpirit1337]

But will Titania float with her new changes? I hope she floats with her new changes. 
 

Really excited for this though!

[WeaselBoy]

2 minutes ago, Borg1611 said:

I'm guessing they mentioned that in the stream since the notes aren't very specific and just say "a brief time?" 

Yes, they were not specific. They just said brief and really emphasized brief. 

Scott: "We put a very small. Very small window of invulnerability" Exact words. He then reiterated "It's very small though". 

[Crimson_Ruby_313]

Will the currently existing arcanes be in operation rewards with little duck? Or new arcanes? 

[Oreades]

Everything looks pretty heccin solid, my only concern was existing rank 3 arcanes but from the sound of things on stream those can be used to combine into a R5 so there shouldn't be a problem. 

 

[fr4gb4ll]

while a lot of those changes are appreciated, i'm not so sure about the change of some arcane... e.g. arcane guardian now give you a 20% chance of +600 armor for 20 sec (and ofc the extra revive)  at rank rank 3 - the 'new' one will give you a 15% chance of +600 armor for 30 sec (+etc) at rank 5...

so, not only is this a trading of 5% for 10 more seconds, it also is only at rank 5 instead of rank 3. or, will the existing arcanes we have be 'upgraded' from the now-max-rank to the then-max-rank? if not, this sounds like a terrible debuff of them for a long time until we get more arcanes to compensate this. preventing two of the same arcanes at the same time will only make this worse an effect (though i like the idea of having more arcanes in total).

i haven't double checked every arcane on this, but i think that others are also affected negatively by this change.

[Kylo.]

1 minute ago, Crimson_Ruby_313 said:

Will the currently existing arcanes be in operation rewards with little duck? Or new arcanes? 

yes

[WeaselBoy]

Just now, Crimson_Ruby_313 said:

Will the currently existing arcanes be in operation rewards with little duck? Or new arcanes? 

Currently existing arcanes are being added to the reward pool to soften the R3 to R5 arcane change requirements. 

[GruntBlender]

8 minutes ago, Jeancly said:

this means that every 3 pellets 1 will apply status.As such for a single full shot you will apply 3 status instead of 10

It sound like they never applied more than one status per shot anyway, the way Steve described it. At least not repeating same ones like slash. Also, the Kuva Brakk has ~4.51% per pellet base status chance. With 3x60/60 and the 3x boost that goes up to ~38% chance per pellet. Close to what you said, but eh. Replace one of the 60/60 with the new 90% mod and it's now ~42% chance per pellet. With the status stacking, assuming 3 pellets hit, that's a 42% chance of 1 proc, 30.7% chance of 2 procs, and a 7.4% chance of 3 procs. Not bad. Besides, this is a huge buff to all shotguns that didn't reach 100%, and a sideways change to ones that did.

[Toa_Dohaes]

So far, i liked the stream, liked the news.
Now step-by-step.
Railjack changes - it's good! It's gonna be good if we will get, well, Liches and other promised stuff, cuz grind will never change (thanks for resource return tho. As Nef says - before you can be rich, you must be poor!). I wonder how shield changes gonna affect railjack section of the game, cuz, well, it's gonna be something that will be noticable.
ALL changes to health, shields and armor is... gonna be interesting? At least now we, in theory, should not be stcking to crit+slash builds on every weapon to beat endgame, especially cuz status now can hit above 100% i wonder where it will go with something that can easily hit 100% status chance with 2-3 60/60 mods. Can't wait to test it live (and pair this with crit, cuz such weapons can be found).
Self-damage is gone. If this animation cannot be interrupted by hooks/knockdowns then it's good, if it can - well, that's not cool. Does it speed up with your movement speed tho? Or parkour velocity? I wonder... (also RIP Chroma, we will miss you buddy)
Excavation - good! Now this thing can survive a bit.
Titania and Vauban tweaks - yay!
Reward scaling, UI changes and sharing my mods with sentinel - after all this time, yes! This gonna be good. 
Arcane changes is... exciting. Though i don't have a lot of 'em, this looks interesting, especially the LIttle Duck part of that.

Ah, and little notice! I saw a number on Reb's orbiter. It says that Scarlet Spear ends in 1260 days and some hours (was 11? 15?). Does it mean New War will be 3 years long? If it's so long... do we even have a chance of winning this? Can we, the Tenno, save our Origin system? Multiple endings that will be decided by all of us, but everyone will have his own in the end?
What about that "Light" and "Dark" system we met in all the quests? Does it have any meaning in upcoming events? 

Anyway, really excited to see how it all works out, but shotgun status rework is kinda scary tho. 

Aaand the most important question - 

Спойлер

When is Zephyr Deluxe? She doesn't deserve one? Or just not played enough? Dax-themed  looks will be cool on her, or something that surpass hagoromo+prime parts by tennogen

Спойлер

Also got this little girl after devstream. Enjoy her name, pals and gals! Want her to work on my railjack ASAP 

 

[(PSN)Quantaminum]

As expected, self-damage has been removed and explosive weapons' AoE nerfed to appease randumbs who like shooting carelessly and with no trigger discipline. Effing great.