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[DE]Rebecca

2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh.

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It's really obvious DE doesn't play their own game, and/or are just being cruel.

Take Arcane Guardian, at the new-max of Rank 5, it's a net loss in chances of it being activated. Sure it lasts 10s longer but that's literally pointless and not what matters.

DE, you guys don't understand, like you really don't understand the slog to get some of these arcanes. From even getting the right gear for Eidolon hunts, a competent team, and beating the RNG after all that. Like you really don't get it, and now you're gonna nerf the stuff we worked hard over(especially getting 10 matching Arcanes if we went for Rank 3!!), make us get more so we're not as nerfed, and even after all that we're still at a net-loss of the actual stats we actually care about. This is the kinda S#&$ that makes people quit, when you tell them "That thing you farmed forever for is now trash." You really don't understand the punch to the gut you're winding up for here. 

Edited by Gravemind93

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hace 15 minutos, KIREEK dijo:

Will acceltra self damage be removed aswell?

Yea it will be, ALL self-dmg 😄

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Again, love most of the changes and don't want to be overly negative, but wanted to comment further on Arcanes.
With the Arcane rework I see what you're trying to do, but feel like you're missing the underlying motivations for the lack of diversity in usage.

e.g. the most common Arcanes are surely:
Arcane Grace
Arcane Guardian
Arcane Energize
Arcane Aegis (for shields... so probably still not that common overall!)
Arcane Avenger
Arcane Rage
Arcane Fury
Arcane Strike
Arcane Velocity
And possibly a couple of others.

Why? All of them are direct buffs to one of:
- Survivability
- Energy regen
- Damage output
Anything that doesn't touch them is just fluff unless it has a specific usage. Arcane Tanker is useful only as an "armor on demand" for Rhino to buff his iron skin, for example. Arcane consequence is useful as a speed boost to cloaked Ivara with dodge rolling. And all the Arcanes to avoid a proc - the only ones I can see use for are the Toxic resist for shield frames, Nullifier to protect energy reserves, maybe Slash and Radiation.


I do think your changes - preventing double stacking - will increase variety a bit. But mostly you're going to see people still using Arcanes from the pool above, except now two of them instead of one. E.g instead of Arcane Grace x2, or Guardian x2, now it would be Guardian and Grace.

You're not going to see anyone saying "oh, I can't take x2 Arcane Grace, I guess i'll take Arcane Bodyguard and heal my companion now!". No, they'll just take Guardian, or Avenger, or Energize, and be done with it. The Arcanes that sit in the pile now will still sit in the pile after the patch.

I think the answer there is you need a second, third, fourth pair of eyes to glance over Arcane stats and realise how useless some of the Arcanes are, and then rework them, drop them, or otherwise do something to make them worth using.


For example:
- There's no real push to use the proc resist Arcanes for anything other than maybe Toxin (shield frame), Magnetic (energy), Slash (just... hurts), or Radiation (Radiation Lich is not good!). For others e.g. cold, heat, gas, etc - why would you take that over any other Arcane? I can't see a reason, the procs are not worth worrying about or wasting an Arcane slot vs direct survival or damage.
- Arcane Survival - why take something to slow bleedout over something that would directly help prevent death in the first place?
- Arcane Temperance - too specific usage
- Arcane Eruption - randomly specific and not particularly useful?
etc

I feel like the only answer would be to give additional Arcane slots, and make them all specific in usage.
e.g we get 4 slots:
x1 Survival slot - guardian, grace, aegis, barrier, stealth
x1 Resistance slot - 1x any of the proc resistance Arcanes
x1 Utility slot - parkour, bleedout, revival, companion heal, eruption
x1 Damage slot - any of the +damage, +fire rate, +crit or otherwise damage output Arcanes

I think that would make for some tougher choices, and better balance, and encourage using lesser known Arcanes e.g. for utility and resistance. However it's probably also the kind of change that would be completely fine had it been there from the beginning, but would get massive complaints and hatred if implement now. And it would nerf building for a specific role - e.g. you couldn't stack two survival mods for a tank frame. Maybe then add a feature whereby you could swap one additional slot - e.g. take an extra Survival, replacing Resistance - but at reduced effect, or some other cost?

So... I don't know. But I don't think the current changes will achieve the diversity that's wanted.

 

Edited by CoreWolf
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Not much to say other than this is looking like one of the best updates since Liches dropped. So many issues (many left unaddressed for years) that are finally getting looked at. I have my criticisms of specific changes but nothing worth saying until these get released into the game. As for the haters.... Ignore them. Nothing wrong with breaking up the meta from time to time to keep things fresh.

There is a lot of good stuff in warframe that is shallow and needs a second, third, or even fourth look to make it fun and entice veteran players to take part. Here's to many more updates like this with every mainline from now on.

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8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

In addition to being able to achieve two Status Effects on a single shot, we are also adding new meaning if you get a duplicate Status Effect on an enemy. For example, AOE knockdown would occur on a second Impact Status on an enemy already inflicted with one! Stay tuned for the full breakdown of each Status’ enhanced effect in the Patch Notes! 

Knockdown is nice and all, but on average that's actually a drawback. I would suggest either adding a general damage multiplier to knocked down enemies, or revising the double impact proc effect to a longer "open to finisher". That would allow for some interesting attack combos.

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The only thing missing here is a rework of the Stug, thank you.

I have a friend with motion sickness problems and I can't tell you how much they will appreciate the larger FOV.

The only question I have is does the self damage also apply to things like glaive explosions?

Edited by Braneman

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I don't know what's been going on with you lately, DE. 

But I really like it.

You guys seem to be really listening again and keeping in touch with the player base again. I can safely say that all these changes are positive even though others seem unsure about the arcane changes I feel they are actually pretty reasonable and I look forward to playing around with all the changes.

This makes me really excited to see what you guys over at DE have in store for us. I'm also super pumped for all the new and improved graphics related stuff coming.

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8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Tribute: You can now select which Tribute to cast, by cycling through the different buffs like Ivara’s arrows, or Vauban’s Minelayer.

So Grendel's Nourish ability might get a similar update?

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Most changes seem good, but arcanes

Severly nerfiing **some** good arcanes, yet not doing anything to make trash arcanes useful? and even adding more useless arcanes that counter some effect that never happens (outside of special sortie maybe) ? make more arcanes useful, most of them are so bad or just too inferior (for only 2 slots you equip best ones and never use 'meh' ones, isn't it obvious?)

Grace still being OP for Inaros but now even worse on everyone else, while nerfing arcanes that helped squish frames to stay alive... plz   And no, Shieldgating is not going to save some Banshee for long where Inaros can literally AFK and regen all HP with Grace (on top of his other 4 innate ways to heal if you actually can press buttons)

 

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41 minutes ago, (NSW)Gunz said:

You realize that knockdown has always been the impact proc, right?

No, it is not. A brief stagger is the impact proc. Blast is what has an AOE knockdown proc.

(and frankly impact is already often annoying even as a brief stagger because it can interrupt or cancel some other CC states or animations)

Edited by OvisCaedo

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RIP shotguns

At least by the looks of it.

 

But the change that really hurts in my case is the massive nerf to the arcanes, specifically guardian. It will cost a fortune to get those up to 5 just to get back the same power i have right now. And i haven't even been double stacking anything. I seriously hope there will be another way to get those things other than grinding the mess that is eidolons once this is released.

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Big buff to all frames that have a lot of shields.  Partial shield deplete = 1 sec recharge, full deplete = 4 seconds no matter how much shield hmmm.  shield also gets 25% damage reduction.  Harrow and Hildryn are the 2 most prominent frames I can think of that will benefit greatly from this. More Hildryn than anything, slash doesn't bypass shields anymore which makes her a way better tank.  As Harrow mostly uses overshields, the recharge changes don't really help him, but the 25% damage reduction will help a lot.  Wait does anybody know how long it takes for a Hildryn to fully regen their shield from 0? With a max shield build with no shield regeneration mods?

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  • Decreased the chances of Kuva Lich controlled sectors forcing an Exterminate situation to allow for more gamemode chances. 

So you're gonna remove the fastest, most streamlined possible mission for Lich farming.

Cause it wasn't slow and tedious enough I guess. Can't wait for more slow and aggravating Defense, Interception, and Survival.

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4 hours ago, Helch0rn said:

Steve looked really tired during the stream

don't overwork yourself

Hopefully he's getting enough sleep and taking care of himself, would suck for him to get sick or worse.

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8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Arcane Energize
On Rank 5: On Energy Pickup
60% chance to replenish Energy to nearby Allies
Added duration and Cooldown added (cannot re-trigger while active).

Why the Energise hate?

Arcane Energise was sought after, because it allowed you to drop efficiency completely in favor of other stats such as strength and range. It was the definition of a power fantasy esque item that opened up build diversity. I don’t understand why this is getting a nerf, when what it is now is exactly what you were looking to introduce by changing up at arcanes.

Drop the “duration” - this means Energise is restoring energy over time, so unless this somehow works in channeled abilities you’re murdering builds like perma-Hysteria Valkyr (which was never a popular nor a broken option, as you had to keep up kills for eberguse to feed energy). You’re killing build ideas.

And don’t make the cool down obnoxious, like 30 seconds or something like that. Go any longer than about 10 seconds, and it stops being a tool for fixing energy consumption and more of... a thing.  A bad meme, like Arcane Warmth, Ice, and all of the new arcanes you’re looking to push with Scarlet spear.

Reconsider this, please.

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Okay, before everyone goes crazy over status chance on shotguns. Remember that they're also reducing armor scalling by a large margin, which makes a huge difference past lvl100 (where 100% status chance shotguns make a difference)

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Quote

Kuva Lich Murmurs / Fixes
Requiem Murmurs from failing a Kuva Lich Parazon stab will now again be shared with the entire squad!

Are you actually insane? It's nice to know that I no longer have any choice whatsoever about how I fight MY LICH other than just solo play. Fighting a Lich at Lv5 is not fun, I'm sorry it's just not. I used to be able to play in groups, play smart, and guarantee I finish every Lich at Lv4. Nope, not any more. I guess I was just playing the game wrong. Now I either have to fight them up to Lv5, or just play solo all the time. Okay, cool, got it. That was the problem Liches had: not that they take way too many murmurs to discover, not that the discovery system itself is clunky, not certain Lich weapon combos resulting in frustrating fights (Tonkor/Nukor), not that runes start off a rare commodity and become a meaningless trinket, not the grindy nightmare of actually getting the Lich you want, not the RNG swamp of getting them to spawn at all, and definitely not the polluted pool of mastery-fodder weapons there to just waste time. No, the problem was that people were playing the game in a smart way and in groups. The nerve of them. Better put a stop to that.

I've been around for a long time, I've watched you for a long time. I have no faith, none whatsoever, that you are properly addressing any real issues in the game with these fixes. Nor that you will implement them correctly while also working on mainline content. You have never pulled that off in the past. Not once. These "fixes" will release in a buggy state, and then you'll be dumping Scarlet Spear on top of them before they can be addressed.

Here's some free advice:

  1. Slow the heck down
    • Over the years your team has made it amply clear that they cannot handle working on new content while maintaining old content. You either need to give them more time to do their jobs. Stop releasing buggy messes.
  2. Prioritize satisfying and functional content over new content
    • New content is great for the very small percentage of veterans in this game, but that's not most of your player base. I'd bet it's not even 10%. People can wait as long as you set the expectations correctly. What people can't do is enjoy buggy, poorly designed, messes that you've neglected for years. Think of it this way: your house has a failing foundation, but you're trying to build a second story onto it before fixing the base. You are setting yourselves up for failure. Why are you doing this.
  3. Play your game
    • It is painfully obvious that you don't play your own game at all. Maybe hire someone to do actual QA testing before you release things? Maybe have someone that plays the actual game regularly to be involved in your development meetings? You could literally hire just 2 people and not pay them that much. Do you even understand what an non-fun, painful, slog it is to farm arcanes? Have any of you fought a Lich from inception to execution? Have you ever even once started a new account and tried to catch up to the end game just to know what that feels like? Am I just talking to a brick wall?(yes)
  4. Stop pretending you're in Beta
    • You are perfectly comfortable taking everyone's money. The game is not in beta, it's a live service. Just stop. Stop making excuses.

I know that the real goal here is to create artificial grind walls that push the very limits of the patience of saints to encourage the spending of real money on Platinum. I know that. But could you at least pretend to actually care about the quality of the game just a little?

I don't know why I bothered. Even on the tiny 1% chance that Rebecca might read this, it will never get passed along.

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I'm a bit worried about the arcane changes, but everything else in this sounds FANTASTIC.

Self damage gone! Kuva liches sharing murmor progression! These are about the two best things I've heard in a long time!!!! Overall even if I end up not liking the arcane changes, overall, this sounds just amazinggggg.

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3 minutes ago, Lysserd said:

Are you actually insane? It's nice to know that I no longer have any choice whatsoever about how I fight MY LICH other than just solo play. Fighting a Lich at Lv5 is not fun, I'm sorry it's just not. I used to be able to play in groups, play smart, and guarantee I finish every Lich at Lv4. Nope, not any more. I guess I was just playing the game wrong. Now I either have to fight them up to Lv5, or just play solo all the time. Okay, cool, got it. That was the problem Liches had: not that they take way too many murmurs to discover, not that the discovery system itself is clunky, not certain Lich weapon combos resulting in frustrating fights (Tonkor/Nukor), not that runes start off a rare commodity and become a meaningless trinket, not the grindy nightmare of actually getting the Lich you want, not the RNG swamp of getting them to spawn at all, and definitely not the polluted pool of mastery-fodder weapons there to just waste time. No, the problem was that people were playing the game in a smart way and in groups. The nerve of them. Better put a stop to that.

I've been around for a long time, I've watched you for a long time. I have no faith, none whatsoever, that you are properly addressing any real issues in the game with these fixes. Nor that you will implement them correctly while also working on mainline content. You have never pulled that off in the past. Not once. These "fixes" will release in a buggy state, and then you'll be dumping Scarlet Spear on top of them before they can be addressed.

Here's some free advice:

  1. Slow the heck down
    • Over the years your team has made it amply clear that they cannot handle working on new content while maintaining old content. You either need to give them more time to do their jobs. Stop releasing buggy messes.
  2. Prioritize satisfying and functional content over new content
    • New content is great for the very small percentage of veterans in this game, but that's not most of your player base. I'd bet it's not even 10%. People can wait as long as you set the expectations correctly. What people can't do is enjoy buggy, poorly designed, messes that you've neglected for years. Think of it this way: your house has a failing foundation, but you're trying to build a second story onto it before fixing the base. You are setting yourselves up for failure. Why are you doing this.
  3. Play your game
    • It is painfully obvious that you don't play your own game at all. Maybe hire someone to do actual QA testing before you release things? Maybe have someone that plays the actual game regularly to be involved in your development meetings? You could literally hire just 2 people and not pay them that much. Do you even understand what an non-fun, painful, slog it is to farm arcanes? Have any of you fought a Lich from inception to execution? Have you ever even once started a new account and tried to catch up to the end game just to know what that feels like? Am I just talking to a brick wall?(yes)
  4. Stop pretending you're in Beta
    • You are perfectly comfortable taking everyone's money. The game is not in beta, it's a live service. Just stop. Stop making excuses.

I know that the real goal here is to create artificial grind walls that push the very limits of the patience of saints to encourage the spending of real money on Platinum. I know that. But could you at least pretend to actually care about the quality of the game just a little?

I don't know why I bothered. Even on the tiny 1% chance that Rebecca might read this, it will never get passed along.

Honestly i haven't made single damn Lich since they were introduced... and still kidna regret buying Lich hunter pack at launch knowing i won't use it in the end, this system had potential to be a glimpse of a challenge but the potential was wasted for grind, which is rewarded, with more grind in form  of mandatory 5 formas to get full mastery of weapons, something i hated on Paracecis and hoped to never see again, yet no see it on Kuva weapons and absolutely don't want to touch them, especially considering most of them are  weaker than their regular counterparts just to accommodate for questionable "powercreep" potential of random bonuses we get

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@[DE]Rebecca Adding cool downs to arcane is an excuse to shaft efficient arcanes because they’re more popular instead of bringing up the weaker arcanes in line. Even if you absolutely must add a cooldown, make it 3 seconds maximum because warframe is fast paced, you can die any minute waiting for “arcanes to cool down” for survivability. Please Don’t punish your players after all that cumbersome, yes, cumbersome grind of eidolons to get them. frames like valkyr and atlas CAN still die with Guardian and grace equipped. Can’t claim energize as broken either because less than half/half of the community even has access to it with the abhorrent drop rate. Saying arcanes needed to nerfed is crybaby drivel by players who don’t have them or some other pettiness. Please RECONSIDER.Loved all the other changes so far though. ❤️

Edited by (PS4)Dredgen_Vor
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11 minutes ago, Lysserd said:

Are you actually insane? It's nice to know that I no longer have any choice whatsoever about how I fight MY LICH other than just solo play. Fighting a Lich at Lv5 is not fun, 

Uh.. this change makes it even easier to fight your lich at lower level, because you get the benefit from other player's murmors. Gaining the murmor from other players vanquishing their lich does not level yours up in any way, it just gives you more information so that you can make guesses faster without levelling your lich, you can easily down your lich 3 times and never use your parazon on it to make it retreat, if you go in a group, and have all 3 mods known before you ever make an attempt... so, this makes doing it your way easier, rather than harder.

I personally have no issues fighting them at Lv5 but yeah... the change does nothing to make it harder to keep your lich level down in any way shape or form.

I hated the lich system until they allowed us to choose our Liches weapon more easily and to fuse valiance, but now, I really, really like it, though I do wish it was tied in to other game modes, and that lich anger was built up regardless of planet (so you could do more lich hunting with friends and still be efficient).

Edited by Sylonus

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22 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Arcane Guardian
On Rank 5: On Damaged:
15% chance for +600 Armor for 30s

Currently Arcane Guardian On Rank 3: 20% chance for +600 Armor for 20s.

Arcane Guardian was one of my favorite to double up so I'm hoping that the stats were a typo. If not a lot of my squishier frames are in trouble with no foreseeable solution for survival in endurance content. Overall I like the changes. I've been waiting for what seems like to see armor scaling dialed back, and Self Damage to be removed. The fact that DE found a way to make self damage an interesting mechanic instead of a death sentence had me excited for the next mainline.  I just hope that "Adjusting the power of Arcanes at Rank 5 to generally behave as if you had 1.5 equipped" isn't alluding to that standard being applied arbitrarily to force the use of different arcanes and more grinding. I sincerely hope that standard will be applied generally to all arcades to soften the blow of not being able to double up.

Edited by Dark_Logiq88
Addition

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Il y a 5 heures, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

Self Damage Changes:
We are getting rid of Self Damage and replacing it with something else: instead of Self Damage, it’s now ‘Stagger’. This change completely removes the chance of killing yourself, and instead now creates scenarios where you will interrupt yourself - or ‘Stagger’ - to varying degrees if you aren’t careful. 
The degrees of Self-Interrupt start with a small stumble all the way to full knockdown depending on how close you are to the center of explosion. Any Mods referring to Self Damage will be converted to acknowledge Stagger.

About Operator amps : Will i be always staggered if i use the Shraksun Scaffold after the changes ? Because the projectile explode too close from the Operator even when firing forward(it explodes after traveling 15 meters), resulting as always doing self damage. Can you make it explode from further away, so i don't get staggered each time i use my scaffold in combat after the changes please ?

Other than that, good changes overall, it was about time to get these, but there are still some things not in this Dev Workshop that i would like to talk about :

- Friendship doors : They have to go away or have a countdown before it opens when only one player is in front of the door pushing the button while there is multiple players during the mission because it stops from doing multiple tasks in a single mission like exploring the map, killing a boss or rescuing a hostage while doing a Kuva Siphon for example.

-  Status procs on Kuva Liches : Some of the status procs are very powerful if they are enabled against Kuva Liches as they are working currently and i understand that they are disabled at the moment but that means status weapons are useless against them. Would it be possible to make Kuva Liche resistant to status procs so they don't get the full debuff from procs like Viral so their maximum life can be reduced by 20%(for example) instead of the basic 50% ?

- Sortie rewards : It can happen that you get reward that you don't want and the next day you get the same reward making people, myself included a little disappointed. What if we could reroll a Sortie reward one time per Sortie(for free) to get a different reward and choose between the two if the reward we got in the first place was not what we were looking for ? So people who get the same reward for days can finally get something else ?

- Arcane slots on the Operator(not amps) : With only two slots available, choices for Arcanes are very limited, while you are looking into them for possible rebalance can we get one or two more slots to get more Arcane usage possibilities ? I would be curious to know the top arcanes used by the playerbase at the moment and the changes possible to the ranks of the most used Arcanes if the Operator could wear more than two Arcanes.

- Railjack Controls (On consoles) : I have discovered a while ago that i can't rebind the Ability Menu button(which is currently set as R1), when i try to rebind it a message show up saying that i can't do that, why is this a thing? Could you let me free control over my bindings please ?

- (On consoles) There are still some Npcs where we can't choose manually how much items we want to trade like Onkko for the sentient cores or The Syndicates in the relays for the medallions, we have to spam R1 on PS4 to increase one by one the number of items we want to trade, can this be changed please ?

- There are some parts of Warframe or Operator skins that can't be recolored; a easy example would be the Operator without body suit equipped that show some clothes (which are not bad at all by the way) that would stay black no matter what color i pick. Can you please change that for fashion's sake?

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27 minutes ago, Monolake said:

Most changes seem good, but arcanes

Severly nerfiing **some** good arcanes, yet not doing anything to make trash arcanes useful? and even adding more useless arcanes that counter some effect that never happens (outside of special sortie maybe) ? make more arcanes useful, most of them are so bad or just too inferior (for only 2 slots you equip best ones and never use 'meh' ones, isn't it obvious?)

Grace still being OP for Inaros but now even worse on everyone else, while nerfing arcanes that helped squish frames to stay alive... plz   And no, Shieldgating is not going to save some Banshee for long where Inaros can literally AFK and regen all HP with Grace (on top of his other 4 innate ways to heal if you actually can press buttons)

 

Honestly, Grace is probably nerfed even on Inaros, since it can no longer re-trigger while active now, though it'll still be good and usable, Guardian got nerfed pretty hard too... overall seems like a pretty sad day for arcanes, though yeah, I like everything else.

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