2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh.

[iLightning13]

Sounds excellent. Love the changes, even the 'nerfs'.

Only thing I'd mention (as this is the only arcane i'm really familiar with) is that having 8s for Arcane Ultimatum feels a bit too low, especially for something that takes around 1-2 seconds to actually activate? Maybe consider aligning it with Tanker (lower armour gain but more consistent, like how Guardian is even more consistent than both but with a lower value), or between 8 and 24?

Edited February 29, 2020 by iLightning13

[perfectStranger]

16 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Damage-Type Changes:

• Slash Status now does not bypass Shields and instead deals damage over time to Shields. Slash Status still bypasses Armor. 
• Toxin Damage used to apply to Armor with a 25% bonus. Now it is neutral. For role distinction, Toxin bypasses Shields (but not Armor) where as Slash Status bypasses Armor but not Shields. 

These are very good changes, just a couple of things with Slash damage being Slash procs so broken OP to be nearly required regardless of the mission type: does it ever makes any sense that a shield could get slash proc'd and bleed as consequence? No right?

So can we make shields, and robotics for instance, immune to slash procs because it would actually make sense?

Or at least can theses gets high damage resistances to slash damage and makes these resistance affecting both damage, double dipping the damage of eventual slash procs like faction damage mods do, and both affecting status chances reducing them?

These in the hope that all damage types and will get interesting again because right now besides corrosive, slash (and in limited cases gas and fire) all the others are considered trash.

 

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by perfectStranger

[(NSW)Kayaba]

1 hour ago, Suska said:

you're being silly saying it's only in game to benefit one frame i've already explained this

It really only does benefit one frame, chroma and maybe revenant but I don’t own him, not even Inaros can face tank the Bramma. that also doesn’t change the fact that a lot of map are close quarters where you don’t have room to move out of the way, and allies can body block shots meaning a teammate could run in front of you as you let the shot go and then your dead, why should I get punished for my teammate walking in front of me. 

[Suska]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Kayaba said:

It really only does benefit one frame, chroma and maybe revenant but I don’t own him, not even Inaros can face tank the Bramma. that also doesn’t change the fact that a lot of map are close quarters where you don’t have room to move out of the way, and allies can body block shots meaning a teammate could run in front of you as you let the shot go and then your dead, why should I get punished for my teammate walking in front of me. 

get gud, im like legolas with my bramma and it is ALL THAT

[(NSW)Kayaba]

2 minutes ago, Suska said:

get gud, im like legolas with my bramma and it is ALL THAT

Getting good doesn’t stop a teammate walking in front of you and then you get yeeted in the sun because of it.

[Teliko_Freedman]

Since we're adding Stagger instead of Self Damage, Can we remove Corinth's Airburst Safety Distance? I want more Explosions, not Duds.

[VithLiahain]

Contrary to the people who disapprove of some of these changes, I say that everything is amazing and welcome, bring it all on and don't change anything!

[Suska]

 

3 minutes ago, (NSW)Kayaba said:

Getting good doesn’t stop a teammate walking in front of you and then you get yeeted in the sun because of it.

yeah cuz that's always been a problem for legolas while he's skateboarding down stairs and the world is splodin aroun him... teammates... just because you can't doesn't mean no one can, DE had a choice to make, it's not pretty how ppl are adapting by eating revives, but that's just another sort of gameplay, moderating aggro by how many revives are left, because already most bramma users don't wait for a revive, this way is something else though, back to practically never needing to be revived I guess, but the main point here is there is no way on earth bramma is gonna stay strong without self-damage, it's too overpowered.

[Warfoki]

I'm happy with the overwhelming majority of these changes. Armor scaling change, excav scaling, shield gating.... very good ideas that have been needed for years now, I'm really happy that they are coming now. I'm even willing to give the status changes on shotguns the benefit of the doubt.

However, please reconsider the Arcane changes. Adding 2 extra levels is fine, making this compensate for double stacking is also fine, adding cooldowns and making them not stack is NOT fine! Especially if the "duration" will mean for Arcane Energize to work like a buffed Zenurik dash, because in that case it won't work with channeled abilities, which will be an enormous nerf to every frame that relies on them. I'm a Titania main, without Arcane energize there is no way for me to stay in razorwing form, none. The normal 25 energy orbs suck and not enough drops from them. My builds will be complete garbage if Energize is nerfed like that. There's a reason why everyone wanted Energize: the energy economy without them sucks for channeled abilities.

At the risk of sounding overdramatic, if energize gets axed like that, that will overshadow all the positive notes for me, since it'll make two out of the three favorite builds complete trash. That might just do what the bugged liches and railjack couldn't do combined and actually make me leave. Please, do NOT nerf utility stuff like arcanes, that people put either hundreds of hours or thousands of plat to accumulate. I can understand nerfing weapons, but Arcanes aren't like that, they simply enable a wider range of builds. Don't take that away by nerfing the most commonly used ones to the ground.

[Xepthrichros]

Me after reading the notes and watching the stream, and likening the current Meta and stale gameplay as Count Dooku:

 

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Xepthrichros

[(NSW)Kayaba]

3 minutes ago, Suska said:

 

yeah cuz that's always been a problem for legolas while he's skateboarding down stairs and the world is splodin aroun him... teammates... just because you can't doesn't mean no one can, DE had a choice to make, it's not pretty how ppl are adapting by eating revives, but that's just another sort of gameplay, moderating aggro by how many revives are left, because already most bramma users don't wait for a revive, this way is something else though, back to practically never needing to be revived I guess, but the main point here is there is no way on earth bramma is gonna stay strong without self-damage, it's too overpowered.

Will it get nerfed eventually, probably but right now it and all the other explosive weapon are getting buffed by 20%

[Suska]

lol with a dropoff? that aint a buff

[Circle_of_Psi]

17 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Kuva Lich Murmurs / Fixes
Requiem Murmurs from failing a Kuva Lich Parazon stab will now again be shared with the entire squad! 

The rest of the fixes are bare to nothing, all these changes are bitter-sweet and quite frankly should've been here on Day 1. But let's address something that is STILL NOT HERE.

This doesn't FIX Murmur Farming, it still takes far too long to have the Gauge Meter filled, the fact we need to endlessly stab random Grinner dudes one by one, to get Murmur. THIS needs to be Increased by 50% at the MOST. Force failing a Kuva Lich only makes the mission's harder and makes the farming LONGER. All this is doing is adding more Grind to the game. Cuz players will fail on porous to farm for the Murmur.

Kuva Lich system is still nothing but a glorified Weapon grind. FIX IT.

[(NSW)Kayaba]

3 minutes ago, Suska said:

lol with a dropoff? that aint a buff

They also got a range increase and 50% fall off isn’t that bad, meaning at the absolute edge you’d deal half damage but half damage on some weapons is more than enough to kill most enemies assuming your not doing some insane lvl 300+ survival but even then with armor changes enemies at that level will be easier to kill , plus the Bramma has that mini explosion to finish them off 

[GateCrasherSupernova]

Booooooo on the arcanes

[(NSW)Kayaba]

6 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

The rest of the fixes are bare to nothing, all these changes are bitter-sweet and quite frankly should've been here on Day 1. But let's address something that is STILL NOT HERE.

This doesn't FIX Murmur Farming, it still takes far too long to have the Gauge Meter filled, the fact we need to endlessly stab random Grinner dudes one by one, to get Murmur. THIS needs to be Increased by 50% at the MOST. Force failing a Kuva Lich only makes the mission's harder and makes the farming LONGER. All this is doing is adding more Grind to the game. Cuz players will fail on porous to farm for the Murmur.

Kuva Lich system is still nothing but a glorified Weapon grind. FIX IT.

I rarely have to go to the third murmur, I usually have guessed it by then but I will admit it’s rng dependent

[Xepthrichros]

17 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Self Damage Changes:
We are getting rid of Self Damage and replacing it with something else: instead of Self Damage, it’s now ‘Stagger’. This change completely removes the chance of killing yourself, and instead now creates scenarios where you will interrupt yourself - or ‘Stagger’ - to varying degrees if you aren’t careful. 
The degrees of Self-Interrupt start with a small stumble all the way to full knockdown depending on how close you are to the center of explosion. Any Mods referring to Self Damage will be converted to acknowledge Stagger.

With this Self-Interrupt system, we have added dozens of new recovery animations that harness a ninja-like recovery experience. 

In light of these changes and how they affect Chroma, I can think of 2 ways that he can perhaps maintain similar gameplay.

1) perhaps one temporary update for him is to let him gain armor and damage bonus from allies who receive damage within affinity radius. This can work while maybe another rework is considered

2) perhaps let him gain vex armor bonuses from self-interruptions / self-staggers, and then this can again be a placeholder while further reworks/buffs/changes are considered.

 

Moving on from Chroma. For the the recovery from Self-interrupt / Self-stagger mechanic, can this also be applied to whenever we receive staggers or knockdowns FROM ENEMIES? It would feel pretty ninja-like if we can also recover when we are knocked over from an enemy Eximus fire blast, or powerfist or moa ground slam, etc.

 

 

 

[(PSN)Vegetuh_]

Will we have our R3 arcanes reset to stacks of r0 since the updated arcanes will be able to reach r5 and that we can only be able to equip one time of arcane at a time? It would be a waste of all the extra r3s we have if they don’t let us reset our arcane ranks :(

[Circle_of_Psi]

24 minutes ago, Warfoki said:

I'm happy with the overwhelming majority of these changes. Armor scaling change, excav scaling, shield gating.... very good ideas that have been needed for years now, I'm really happy that they are coming now. I'm even willing to give the status changes on shotguns the benefit of the doubt.

However, please reconsider the Arcane changes. Adding 2 extra levels is fine, making this compensate for double stacking is also fine, adding cooldowns and making them not stack is NOT fine! Especially if the "duration" will mean for Arcane Energize to work like a buffed Zenurik dash, because in that case it won't work with channeled abilities, which will be an enormous nerf to every frame that relies on them. I'm a Titania main, without Arcane energize there is no way for me to stay in razorwing form, none. The normal 25 energy orbs suck and not enough drops from them. My builds will be complete garbage if Energize is nerfed like that. There's a reason why everyone wanted Energize: the energy economy without them sucks for channeled abilities.

At the risk of sounding overdramatic, if energize gets axed like that, that will overshadow all the positive notes for me, since it'll make two out of the three favorite builds complete trash. That might just do what the bugged liches and railjack couldn't do combined and actually make me leave. Please, do NOT nerf utility stuff like arcanes, that people put either hundreds of hours or thousands of plat to accumulate. I can understand nerfing weapons, but Arcanes aren't like that, they simply enable a wider range of builds. Don't take that away by nerfing the most commonly used ones to the ground.

I have to agree with this, they are pretty much nerfing Arcanes in this rate. I only use two Arcanes, the one that gives you Armor on hit. (Extra HP bacily). But the fact that the other Arcanes are tied to 0.1% drop change of RNG. there is no use or need to farm for the others, cuz the prices on the market are as bad as the Riven Mifa.

Unnerf the drop chance, then we'll talk.

[Circle_of_Psi]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Vegetuh_ said:

Will we have our R3 arcanes reset to stacks of r0 since the updated arcanes will be able to reach r5 and that we can only be able to equip one time of arcane at a time? It would be a waste of all the extra r3s we have if they don’t let us reset our arcane ranks 😞

I'll assume they will, but this IS a Nerf. So don't have high hopes.

[(NSW)Kayaba]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Vegetuh_ said:

Will we have our R3 arcanes reset to stacks of r0 since the updated arcanes will be able to reach r5 and that we can only be able to equip one time of arcane at a time? It would be a waste of all the extra r3s we have if they don’t let us reset our arcane ranks 😞

They won’t be reset but you will be able to combine two r3 and an r0 to get an r5 you can also infuse them back r0’s

Edited February 29, 2020 by (NSW)Kayaba

[Suska]

11 minutes ago, (NSW)Kayaba said:

They also got a range increase and 50% fall off isn’t that bad, meaning at the absolute edge you’d deal half damage but half damage on some weapons is more than enough to kill most enemies assuming your not doing some insane lvl 300+ survival but even then with armor changes enemies at that level will be easier to kill , plus the Bramma has that mini explosion to finish them off 

if it really is a buff and there's no self damage attached the origin system is about to understand a severe carpet bombing

Edited February 29, 2020 by Suska
blehg

[Circle_of_Psi]

7 minutes ago, (NSW)Kayaba said:

I rarely have to go to the third murmur, I usually have guessed it by then but I will admit it’s rng dependent

Yeah, you can bypass it, but it's too RNG dependent and I'll be honest, I farmed about 3 Kuva Liches (Two of my own) and one, by helping a pal with his Kuva and the grind is SLOW. The whole guessing game needs to be outright removed as well. If you HAVE the mods, you can kill it. There is no need to add a layer of RNG to guess a ORDER of mods. We don't put mods in order for anything else, so why start.

The "more changes" they are thinking about, need to be here on Mainline Day 1, not "when we feel like it or oh look shiny content to distract you"

[(NSW)Kayaba]

1 minute ago, Suska said:

if it really is a buff and there's no self damage attached the origin system is about to understand a severe carpet bombing

I don’t see anything wrong with that, just imagine going to the plains and raining hell fire Upon the grineer

[Suska]

are you doing that on purpose?