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2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh.


[DE]Rebecca
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This was the best Devstream/Workshop for a really really long time.

I almost lost hope and stopped playing when the Railjack Update hit the servers and i hope you (DE) know why.

 

Why it took you so long do improve/fix such incremental things, it seems like those changes were made pretty quick sooo, WHY it took so long?

This update could bring the joy back to the game, atleast for me... instead of delivering more and more broken, badly designed new content.

 

I hope this wont be the last revision of base game mechanics in the near future.

You could also improve the enemy AI alot, this is one system which really lacks in Warframe, especially the allied AI.

Also the Lich grind (Murmurs) is still too much, but you already mentioned in the devstream that further changes will be coming soon.

 

Thank you for listening to the players again, it seemed you ignored the calls of your core players long enough 😉

 

ps. Arcane energize only provides energy to nearby players and not yourself anymore?

And Railjack for solo players (ai crew), any date?

 

 

Edited by RAZORLIGHT
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i get you dont want people to double stack arcanes.... but you litteraly just made my life harder.... as i just spent time trading players in the last few weeks to get sum double arcanes... that not only do i need to sell one of them now before these changes.... but you also nerfed the builds i have made with double arcanes.... not only that.... now all the arcanes i own will be outdated and worth less because your adding 2 more ranks to them.... 

i dont like the fact that your making rank 5 arcanes just to get rid of double arcanes.... why not buff the arcanes and leave them rank 3? would litteraly help people in my situation that dont have the time to grind eidolons , and have to trade players to get these things that basicaly make or break sum builds.... prime example is mesa with double velocity arcanes.
not only are you nerfing that specific interaction you are also making people have to trade for even harder to get arcanes... 
why not just make prime arcanes.... double the power of regular arcanes but can only equip one of each type (and also not the same non prime variants)....
this would make it so there would be a new better thing to grind for without devaluing the current setups of players.....

legit the only thing i have a problem with is arcanes outa all these changes. please discuss this further before implementing

 

also you have already given us (the players) double stacking..... taking it away litterally is nerfing everything.... players will not like this.

Edited by BlazinGod
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this is without a doubt THE update Ive been waiting for years!

very very excited!
however! theres still quite a few things that are not addressed

right now people are worried about changes to arcanes mainly say arcane energize
energy economy is still bit strange in warframe and getting energy is one of the top priorities when it comes to gameplay
after all if you dont have energy youre having less fun

thats why these "nerfs" to arcane energize seem bit scary
so why is it that arcane energize is so overshadowing the popularity of other arcanes? simple really

EnergyOrb these orbs are only 25 worth of energy

it used to make sense in warframe 2014 but seriously nowadays that is a very tiny amount of energy with our current energy pools going up to 450-850 with primed flow
so I think the values should be boosted drastically lets say 75 energy on pickup by default? and with that maybe also buff or re-think energy system entirely (I know its alot! Im not expecting miracles! just putting the thought out there)

and that leads to another orb pickup that should also get an update
HealOrb health orbs are also only worth of 25 health per pickup that is TINY and barely helps at all I think these also should be buffed to atleast 100-150 health per pickup


also!
I know this is way bigger fish to hunt but I wonder is there any chance to take a deeper look at the modding system?
one of the biggest problems still existing in warframe is "mandatory mods" that just doesnt leave you with alot of customizing options

this is throughout problem from warframes to weapons to companions

one of the biggest grievances I always have when modding warframes is "I wish I could use these mods that increase my parkour,sprint and mobility but I cant fit them because strenght,survivability,energy economy and range is more important"
ever given thought to making mobility its own moddable section? I mean its not like it would make warframes op just more mobile and fun really
also what about that augment slot?

also our shooting mechanics and combat mobility have stayed mostly the same since the very beginning
I wish maybe in the future DE would take a look at possibly new dodging/rolling mechanics (like shooting and reloading while dodging)
reload trick similar to gears of war series? I think it would fit right in! risk reward system possible fast reloads for fast fingers but penalty for screwing it up

lastly!
True Universal Vacuum
we all have wet dreams about that miraculous hoover that would just simply work without taking any mod space, regardless whether you have a companion or not

now with all that said
Im super happy to hear all these changes are FINALLY happening after years of waiting around
I cant wait to see the new update cheers!

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4 seconds delay upon totally depleting shields before recharge process occur, what the fu_ck are you smoking DE...

I won't even comment on the arcane things, just to mention one, Aegis got totally butchered because the flat amount per second would benefit every frame, now it will only be worthy on frames with high shields or modded for shields...You changed arcane guardian into giving flat 600 armor because originally it was 20% boost that didn't do jack S#&$ to low armored and only improved high armored frames, and now u turn Aegis into the same thing u changed with Guardian when arcanes were added to eidolon drop tables.. the hell ?

Oh and speaking of Guardian : current rank 3 gives 20% chance on dmged to get 600 armor for 20 secs, and the new Rank 5 gonna give a 15% chance for 30 secs ? Who the hell cares of those extra secs when you NERF the % at which that arcane gonna trigger.

What is it, trolling or what ? I have a better idea since it can't double stack :

Rank 5 guardian will give 30% chance to add 900 armor, and it's already a toned down version cus until now with 2 you can have 1200 when both trigger.

GG remove self dmg so we go back to the days of recklessly spamming tonkor with impunity because that stagger really gonna be a drawback to counter the removal of self dmg, lmfao don't make me laugh.

Keep pleasing the crybabies and the n00bs so we can revert back to a bramma, ogris, tonkor mindless spam which areas bad as simulor mirage was...with the only exception that now it'll be bramma mirage...you admitted ages ago that some things were stupid in terms of gameplay and game performances and you jump back straight into those very same mistakes.

Well done DE well done...you never cease to amaze me with the most stupid decisions when it comes to ingame mechanics

Edited by arm4geddon-117
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Great stuff, but one thing.

If y'all didn't want to "restart the arcane grind", then you could have just increased currently ranked arcanes to match the % progress of your changes, rounded up.

Rank 0 = Rank 0

Rank 1 = Rank 2

Rank 2 = Rank 4

Rank 3 = Rank 5

 

If someone has multiple of the same Arcane ranked up, then just let them sell the extras.

Edited by xZeromusx
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Oh, great. I come back to Warframe after several months, I see that they are finally making some decent QoL changes that the playerbase have been clamoring for for years... and then they immediately turn around and nerf the only useful Arcanes, which will immediately make all the QoL changes moot by making ability usage much clunkier, completely wrecking a ton of builds reliant on Energize and Grace, and making a lot of invested time, effort, and money go down the drain. Classic DE, thanks for reminding me why I left on the first place.

I guess I will stick around for while longer to see if the Arcane nerfs are going to be as bad as they look, and if they are, then I suppose it's going to be uninstall-o-clock, and then go around on forums to warn everyone about not to waste their precious time on this slow-motion trainwreck ran by completely detached developers.

Edited by Egathentale
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1 hour ago, (NSW)Kayaba said:

I personally enjoyed both railjack and liches some in my eyes they aren’t a failure, do they need work absolutely, but I also realize that the reason I probably enjoyed them is that I’ve only been playing for little under a year thus I wouldn’t be nearly as burnt out as someone who been playing since launch 

Played on day 1 and got burned out by the grind to even MAKE it. so yeah, Rip.

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20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Arcane Ultimatum
On Rank 5: On Finisher:
100% chance for +1200 Armor for 8s

8s is a huge nerf on Arcane Ultimatum compared to the way it is now (+600 armor for 20s). This arcane is incredibly useful with Ash. You guys could up it's armor on a lesser value (maybe 1000?) and upgrade it's duration, 8s is way too low, even more considering that another finisher takes ~2s to be done again.

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About warframe/tenno Armor:

There are some warframes with very low armor like 15-65 (under100) out there .My own opinion: they need to be buffed like vauban to have more damage reduction.In the current game version ,their armor are just too low.(Most of these warframes are created when this game is in early days.) Not to mention not every warframe have damage reduction skills.Warframe with higher armor is simply much more useful in some high lvl missions.(yes,especially the kuva lich missions)

I will very appreciate if u consider this.
 

Self Damage Changes:

I am not sure whether removing the self damage totally is a good thing to this game.It can be a bad idea.Because: In current game version,not every self-damage weapon can equip cautious shot mod.

It somehow balance the game.For example,look what stats u gave to the bramma.If this weapon don't even hurt u,I am very sure the riven disposition of this weapon will be nerfed to the bottom line because too many players will use it.And the riven must be super expensive,just like rubico.


Status changes:

This should be done like 2 years before,but it is still a good change if u do it now.Just make sure the status effect like impact really have its use.Morever, status bassed shotgun seems to be weaker than before,that is also a very important thing many players will pay close attention to.

 

Arcane changes:

It seems dispute goes to the nerffed arcanes like guardian or energize.Two of the same Arcane can not be equipped simultaneously is not the key problem and it is acceptable to me.But, add cooldown to specific arcanes can be a dumb idea. There are two reasons: 1. Since i can't equip 2 same arcanes at the same time.I can only have one chance to trigger it.which means it is already be nerfed once.Cooldown will weaken it even more.2.It is simply not fair. If you want to add cd to the arcanes, you can(but you won't) add cd to all of them.The reason you don't want to do this is because you think the arcanes like energize is more usefull and powefull ,right? And if u add cd to the arcane Nullifier, will make it totally useless.Actually these arcanes you want to add cd in is not imba in current version.They are powerfull and expensive but for a good reason.Many arcanes are just too weak and almost useless like trickry or tempo.Players have no good reason to use them.

Edited by yuzhuQ
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As someone who prefers status over crit, these changes are making me so happy and excited! Some of the most excited I've been. I'm not even going to pre-emptively worry about shotguns. I'm sure we'll be able to get them to 100% status chance per pellet with some finangling and I am so happy that all those useless pure status mods got buffed! 90% extra neutral status will make so many pure proc builds possible!

 

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9 minutes ago, Merrcenary said:

> mirage

> bramma

>shoot your arrows in 360 degrees around you and even at your feet. anyway you cannot die from this unlike enemies

ahh nice meta is coming. thanks de, I think it's time to chill in rainbow 6 for a few months

What blows my mind is that some of these changes are things  they had already realized were mistakes before and either removed from the game or kept them away from the game. All for very good reasons. Like explosive weapons having self damage to balance their dps (tonkor mirage days), or impact double procs knocking down or ragdolling enemies will make impact weapons absolute trash for many situations where it'll prevent you from following up shots on the enemies (as the feedback fiasco of damage 2.0 should have made them realize). 

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Many players like me have spent the time maxing out two arcanes in order to double stack so if we could disconfigure already built ones into the smaller ones it would make me feel that I didn't waste my time maxing out a second 

For example arcane nullifies I have two maxed for eidolon hunts but with these changes it  would be useless until I get one of them maxed which will be difficult since I'll need so many rank 0 arcanes 

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3 minutes ago, (NSW)blackninja2305 said:

Many players like me have spent the time maxing out two arcanes in order to double stack so if we could disconfigure already built ones into the smaller ones it would make me feel that I didn't waste my time maxing out a second 

For example arcane nullifies I have two maxed for eidolon hunts but with these changes it  would be useless until I get one of them maxed which will be difficult since I'll need so many rank 0 arcanes 

I believe their plan is to break up ranked up Arcanes into an equivalent number of rank 0s.

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20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh

I love this update because...

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We have spread this progression across a greater range of AI now We are decoupling enemy accuracy from level to reduce the overall ‘Aimbot’ like behaviours you face at higher levels

I asked for this on here.

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

When any shields are active, an incoming hit that depletes your last bit of Shields will not continue into your Health pool, and also triggers a brief time where your Health is protected

And this

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are getting rid of Self Damage and replacing it with something else: instead of Self Damage, it’s now ‘Stagger

I didn't ask for this exactly, but it sounds like a huge improvement.

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are removing this condition and now your Mods can be simultaneously equipped. 

I asked for this.

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

As of our coming PC mainline update, both Health and Shields will scale following the same formula as Mobile Defense Terminals. Shield Regeneration of Excavators will be a percent of health vs. flat value to deal with scaling shields

I did ask for this. Lich excavations will be playable again! (Currently all Grineer in lich missions can hit-scan one shot the excavator with perfect aim.

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

It is worth noting we are fixing a UI inconsistency that is ‘Display Only’. Right now the Arsenal shows Status Chance affected by Multishot, which makes reading the new >100% value confusing. For example, the Arsenal might say 120% but really the Status Chance is 80%. We don’t have Multishot affect any Critical Stats (Chance or Multiplier), so we are fixing this display inconsistency. Multishot now has its own Stat

I asked for this exactly, multiple times. Overall status % doesn't matter, it should all be number of projectiles + chance per projectile. Love it.

21 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Arcane Changes

I didn't ask for this, but I have complained about the current meta and the toxic Eidolon farm. Having only 2 arcanes matter and them only dropping from the 3rd Eidolon made it all about max triple-caps in a night and generally resulted in abuse for any learner slowing them down. Breaking that meta and adding other ways to get arcanes is brilliant.

Thanks DE, this feels like you've gone through my forum history and responded to my most popular posts! (I know you didn't).

I can't wait to see these changes on X1 and maybe get some weapons going that use something other than Corrosive or Viral+Slash.

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16 hours ago, Melanholic7 said:

AND

nice lie,cause now rank 3 arcane has

20% 600 

 so....its even weaker. cool stuff,DE. Yeah,like 1.5. But no. And i didnt checked other arcanes. Want to trick players,right? Act like you are buffing them but instead nerf some?hehmeh

"Adjusting the power of Arcanes at Rank 5 to generally behave as if you had 1.5 equipped"

"GENERALLY behave"

"Generally". As in, not every single arcane will behave as such.

There is no trick here.

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36 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

What blows my mind is that some of these changes are things  they had already realized were mistakes before and either removed from the game or kept them away from the game. All for very good reasons. Like explosive weapons having self damage to balance their dps (tonkor mirage days), or impact double procs knocking down or ragdolling enemies will make impact weapons absolute trash for many situations where it'll prevent you from following up shots on the enemies (as the feedback fiasco of damage 2.0 should have made them realize). 

It's not even that hard to fix: just make sure that an instance of self-damage cannot deal more than an arbitrary percentage of your WFs maximum health to you. Let's say, twenty percent. That means that, in theory, you have five (or six, shield counting) chances to mess up in a row before self-damage kills you. It would also have the hilarious side-effect of giving Hildryn a niche as the frame least effected by self-damage and allowing her to go nuts with AOE weaponry.

Edited by Egathentale
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Wow great work Dev team. 

I have not been this excited to play warframe for the last 2 years. 

The changes to self damage alone will allow me to use weapons i have enjoyed using but ultimately only kept on a shelf due to self damage. 

Very glad for the shotgun status changes but dont forget to add the pellet counts to the UI or you have people not understanding these changes at all. 

more then 100% status provide new options to make high status weapons which will be interesting to test. 

for those of you crying about the arcane changes: 

- Added the ability to Distill assembled Arcanes back into multiple unranked ones. 
- Adding Arcanes as rewards for Operation: Scarlet Spear

did you miss the above changes again?

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7 hours ago, Vharu said:

hahha nice....

My Saryn is 45% efficiency - and I can spam abilities fine without any arcane energize. 

Have ya heard of Exodia Brave? Go build a nice Cyath.

Like Energy pizzas, Zenurik, or Trinity's ability, Brave doesn't work on frames with channeled abilities that continuously drain energy.  Oberon might be mostly fine unlike some people think, since his heal doesn't actually passively drain energy all the time, he still gains energy from things like Zenurik AFAIK, since Equinox also does while channeling her third that also only consumes energy while enemies are in range of it.

Could be that those abilities don't get restore over time while they're actively draining energy.  I'm not sure.

3 hours ago, Cyro_the_Dragon said:

I agree a lot with this. Guardian is borderline necessary to have any real survivability with squish frames in high level content. As eventually you will be hit by something and multiple times when it happens. I don't use energize at all or even use efficiency mods for 90% of my builds and have no issues with energy while doing high level content. Energize was simply too good of a thing to last forever and wouldn't be as painful if it was addressed sooner. But sorry to all of you that got hit by the nerf bat, gets us all in the end.

You don't understand the point of Arcane Energize.  I get that some people use it suboptimally on frames like, say, Saryn.  However, the entire point of the arcane for most people who use it is that a lot of other energy gain mechanisms straight up do not work for frames that channel abilities with constant passive energy drains.  Ivara with prowl, Titania with her 4, etc.

Pizzas are already far and away better for any frame without channeled abilities.  Sure, Zenurik is convenient, but pizzas are cheap, fast, and extremely strong.  A lot of people already have a button bound to the gear slot they're in so that they can just spam them on key press.  IF DE actually want to make energy support frames more relevant, or builds more varied, they should be taking aim at pizzas rather than Arcane Energize.

If this "duration" on Arcane Energize means that it will work like Zenurik, or Exodia Brave, Ivara in particular is stone-cold dead for the forseeable future.  Prowl is her only survivability ability and she has zero innate tankiness.  She simply won't be able to operate at all in extended duration missions with enemies north of around level 40, without resorting to some super cheesy crappy tactic like dropping a stealth arrow on the floor, turning off prowl, and spamming pizzas in the arrow radius.

It's already like that for Ivara if you don't have Arcane Energize yet and aren't in a team with specifically Harrow.  It sucks.

The same goes for if the duration and CD are longer than around three to five seconds, even if unlike every other energy-over-time mechanic they generate energy during channels.  Same goes for if the CD is one second, but the duration is, say, twenty-five seconds and the effect doesn't stack.  Ivara is stone cold dead if any of these happens.  I may switch to Wisp or Harrow for most of my play time, but why bother?  We just got Ivara Prime and those frames don't have primes yet.  They'll likely just get nerfed to being painful to play too if they became halfway popular.  I'll just step off the vicious Skinner treadmill for good if warframe is determined to turn into that.

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I just have 2 things I'd like to bring to y'alls attention as far as fixes? The first one would be the cleaning up of Archwing missions and their drop tables. If you're wanting more access to newer players (my wife and I have only played for a year now,) but mods like Dual Rounds and the dual status mods shouldn't be like pulling teeth to get. Yes, I do understand that it tanks the plat economy for those who want to sell those mods to other players, but look at the myriad of drop locations and enemy drops for other multishot and dual status mods in comparison. Making archwing weapons more powerful in the hands of newer players would in turn make them more prone to taking on rail jack missions. 

 

The only other thing I'd like to add is probably beating a dead horse at this point but... Cross save. Is this something on the table? I built 2 PCs for my household because I'd love to get away from playstation but now this is the only game I play on PS4. I get the difference in plat purchases through steam and plat discounts VS purchase discounts, but the ability to make 1 transfer over to PC would mean that we can continue playing with better graphics without sacrificing all the time we've spent so far on this game. 

 

We absolutely love warframe my wife and I and I don't want these things to be seen as an issue that we have that's breaking the game or anything, we just want it seen as a suggestion of sorts. 

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