2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh.

[Nasair]

I did raids. I did Eidolons. I even formed groups for both at some point for efficiency and the grind. Now you're basically telling me after how many years that Arcanes shouldn't be a good reward for my time?
I'm very disappointed to say the least.

[SordidDreams]

9 hours ago, baoyouming said:

The change you are suggesting will force lich's to lvl up

No, it won't. It will only cause your lich to gain anger and possibly spawn in mission nodes it doesn't own. It's not going to magically complete its mission nodes that you didn't go to, and I have no idea why you'd think it would.

9 hours ago, baoyouming said:

they shouldn't be forced to not have it just because you want to do it a very specific way

Again, I agree. That is, again, why I didn't suggest it.

Edited March 1, 2020 by SordidDreams

[taiiat]

47 minutes ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

They fixed the broken combined elemental calculation that all of the community aware of it KNEW was broken and unintended.  Obviously getting multipliers in the hundreds off of a multiplier that reads on screen as "600-1,300%" is not intended.  That's not a nerf, that's a bug fix.  As for the damage bonus, they didn't nerf it.  They corrected the UI display which was displaying +100% over what was being applied. 

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about as an EHP nerf

the Damage Multiplier itself was nerfed. if you knew what you were talking about you'd know that it changed from a Final Multiplier to a Base Damage Bonus out of the blue in addition to fixing Elementals getting the Bonus applied multiple times.
it was not getting 100x+ Damage, Combined Elementals hit a point of ~37x Damage from being applied multiple times.

ofcourse you don't know what i'm talking about, because you don't know anything about the situation and that's why you chose to harass me about it.
Chroma went from having ~31,000 max Armor to having ~6100 max Armor. completely unannounced.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

37x?  First, 37x is still plainly ridiculous.  Second, 37x was at a measly ~220% power strength.

As far as armor, he could have a lot more than ~31k at one point....

Edited March 1, 2020 by Vitalis_Inamorta

[Nerohype]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb AthariP:

Most changes are good, I even got excited that you're listening to feedback once, but arcane changes ruin everything.

• Removing doublestacking? Okay, fine, but only if 1.5x buff is actually true, and it isn't.
• Less survivability from Arcane Guardian? You kind of acknowledge damage output of enemies being ridiculous at high levels by giving every new/reworked frame damage reduction, now armor buffs too. Let's hope something is done to damage output scaling too. However, currently it's pure nerf for squishy frames which are already avoided in high level missions.
• Less energy from Arcane Energize? In most cases it's offset by not spending hours upon hours building energy restores. As Saryn or Volt, I don't care about energy. I'm free to use energy restores at any point. However, it kills all channeling frames if you want to take them to high level missions.
  • Oberon? Removed from game. Disabling ability, spamming restores, recasting ability and jumping around trying to rebuff everybody means your teammates will die.
  • Ember? Removed from game. Disabling ability makes you lose all damage reduction, which means you will die.
  • Ivara? Painfull as hell. You have to regularly stop, cast invisibility arrow, spam restores, then recast ability. If you don't have energy for arrow, you die.
  • Titania, Excalibur etc. You have to stop and sit in one spot doing nothing in between casts of channeled abilities. If enemies find you, you die.
• Rank 5 arcanes? Good in theory, but it completely relies on acquisition. Getting R3 legendary arcanes requires 200 tridolons, which is crazy time investment already. Now players need more than twice that. Even if you're one of the very few doing 5x3, it's still 100 hours of gameplay — twice the time you spend on an average AAA game to play from start to finish just to fill an arcane slot. Could we get more information on how we're supposed to obtain arcanes now? People who spent plat on max rank arcanes will be angry too, as prices are as likely to drop as to skyrocket now that every veteran able to farm arcanes would level their own arcanes before selling anything. We need more information, it's crucial.
• Buffing less used arcanes? I'm convinced once more that DE devs don't play their game. Nobody uses arcanes with damage resistances not because they're weak, but because they're absolutely useless. Anti-magnetic is useful for eidolons, anti-toxin maaaybe for minmaxed squishy ESO builds. Nobody even uses anti-radiation arcanes in arbis because it's much easier to revive 5 times than to swap arcane once. No matter how much you multiply zero, it remains zero.

I appreciate a lot of changes, but removing Oberon, Ember, Ivara, Chroma from the game is unacceptable.

THIS sums it all up !!

[AEP8FlyBoy]

... 

Edited March 1, 2020 by AEP8FlyBoy

[GruntBlender]

3 hours ago, AthariP said:

Most changes are good, I even got excited that you're listening to feedback once, but arcane changes ruin everything.

• Removing doublestacking? Okay, fine, but only if 1.5x buff is actually true, and it isn't.
• Less survivability from Arcane Guardian? You kind of acknowledge damage output of enemies being ridiculous at high levels by giving every new/reworked frame damage reduction, now armor buffs too. Let's hope something is done to damage output scaling too. However, currently it's pure nerf for squishy frames which are already avoided in high level missions.
• Less energy from Arcane Energize? In most cases it's offset by not spending hours upon hours building energy restores. As Saryn or Volt, I don't care about energy. I'm free to use energy restores at any point. However, it kills all channeling frames if you want to take them to high level missions.
  • Oberon? Removed from game. Disabling ability, spamming restores, recasting ability and jumping around trying to rebuff everybody means your teammates will die.
  • Ember? Removed from game. Disabling ability makes you lose all damage reduction, which means you will die.
  • Ivara? Painfull as hell. You have to regularly stop, cast invisibility arrow, spam restores, then recast ability. If you don't have energy for arrow, you die.
  • Titania, Excalibur etc. You have to stop and sit in one spot doing nothing in between casts of channeled abilities. If enemies find you, you die.
• Rank 5 arcanes? Good in theory, but it completely relies on acquisition. Getting R3 legendary arcanes requires 200 tridolons, which is crazy time investment already. Now players need more than twice that. Even if you're one of the very few doing 5x3, it's still 100 hours of gameplay — twice the time you spend on an average AAA game to play from start to finish just to fill an arcane slot. Could we get more information on how we're supposed to obtain arcanes now? People who spent plat on max rank arcanes will be angry too, as prices are as likely to drop as to skyrocket now that every veteran able to farm arcanes would level their own arcanes before selling anything. We need more information, it's crucial.
• Buffing less used arcanes? I'm convinced once more that DE devs don't play their game. Nobody uses arcanes with damage resistances not because they're weak, but because they're absolutely useless. Anti-magnetic is useful for eidolons, anti-toxin maaaybe for minmaxed squishy ESO builds. Nobody even uses anti-radiation arcanes in arbis because it's much easier to revive 5 times than to swap arcane once. No matter how much you multiply zero, it remains zero.

I appreciate a lot of changes, but removing Oberon, Ember, Ivara, Chroma from the game is unacceptable.

Dude, no. From what I understand, an R3 arcane will still be just as viable. This only affects you if you always use two of the same arcanes. if you use two different arcanes, the change is that now you can boost each one by 50% extra. More than that even, Grace goes from 6/4/6 (6% chance of 24% heal) to 9/6/9 (9% chance of 54% heal). Average health healed per shot goes from 1.44% to 4.86%, including a 50% per second boost.

And regarding aquisition, an R3 arcane is 10 R0's, or 200 runs. Ok, but you're using 2 R3's which is 20 R0's or 400 runs. An R5 arcane is 21 R0's or 420 (blaze it) runs. That's a 5% increase.

[El_Tone_420]

Regarding the changes to arcane ranking from 3 to 5;

Are we to assume that we can upgrade our current ones from 3 to 5?

i.e. currently you can't upgrade a rank 2 to 3 etc once upgrading has been done. 

This will be grossly unfair to all players that have spent time and or money acquiring their current arcanes if not!

I certainly hope that some provision will be made for players that have spent much time and effort?

 

[shadyadie]

On 2020-02-29 at 2:41 AM, (XB1)Maxy88 said:

Seems a bit pointless when this already exists, or am I missing something?

 

All those arcanes are so unused even DE forgot they existed

[Xnidior]

just because DE Megan dont know how to play with Chroma, it doesnt mean you can ruin one of the most iconic warframes such as chroma totally removing self damage....

[xlop404]

Long story short, Arcanes are getting the Itzal treatment .... we all know how that turned out.

[reinforcers]

most pleasurable news I ever heard .... balancing here and there, I wish it came out fast 😄

I do have one thought though, with the arcane changes people would have a lot of unused upper rank arcane, so I wish the arcane upgrade system also change so feeder not just rank 0 but also upper rank. like to get Rank 2 from 2 you need basically another Rank 1 right but in a form of rank 0, why not using another rank 1 for feeder to. or at least give player ability to break upper rank back to rank 0. 

[Jarlini]

So the Command Intrinsic is going to stay as a sad placeholder for a few more months to keep solo players hoping. My toaster PC is going to die loading other players' fashion frames before its going to get released.

[Turbo_Trotldyt_R-Zone_64]

If WF adopted business plan of GW, would WF be a lot better place? I wouldn't mind paying for quality content.

[GruntBlender]

28 minutes ago, reinforcers said:

most pleasurable news I ever heard .... balancing here and there, I wish it came out fast 😄

I do have one thought though, with the arcane changes people would have a lot of unused upper rank arcane, so I wish the arcane upgrade system also change so feeder not just rank 0 but also upper rank. like to get Rank 2 from 2 you need basically another Rank 1 right but in a form of rank 0, why not using another rank 1 for feeder to. or at least give player ability to break upper rank back to rank 0. 

You'll be able to break down ranked arcanes into their R0 components.

[Fluiid]

Well i hope you wont nerf chroma with this new self damage. I hope that at least concealed explosive still work for chroma self damage.

Shield depletion change is very nice for more protection. Ty for that.

And i hope arcane grace and energize cooldown wont be much since its hard to max them and i hope they still be worth it.

Ty 

[GruntBlender]

1 hour ago, El_Tone_420 said:

currently you can't upgrade a rank 2 to 3 etc once upgrading has been done.

What do you mean? Of course you can upgrade an R2 to R3.

[3XOUT]

Good job guys (tentative).

I have surely been one of the biggest critics for a while now. But that’s, funnily enough, because I care about the game. As my main time waster it directly affects me when you seem to disconnect from the community, make huge (intentional or not) “mistakes” and the game underperforming in general for whatever reason. And when I support you with not only my time, but my money - then I expect none of those being wasted. The goodwill you have built up also makes you being upheld to a higher standard. Free to play or not.

All that being said, it seems I should have waited to post a comment until I’ve seen what you were actually going to do.

Although I still feel there is food for thought in general in my comment, this is absolutely a huge step in the right direction. I applaud you!

 

We of course have to test everything and some things might be off etc. But even then, I can’t fault anything you talked about.

BUT crucially in regards to the status changes. If you are not very careful and make sure that 100 % SC with pellet based weapons still means every pellet will proc 1 status - then you will absolutely kill those weapons. That would probably not be the best way to implement this, as you must know.

If not the case, then it’s great.

Just as crucial in regards to Arcanes. Be veeeeery careful. Personally I can live with being able to get my current (crazy expensive) Rank 3 Arcanes to a higher level, as long as they more or less keep their current state. Could even live with a MINOR nerf to the current R3. Detectable but very, very minor. But rendering guardian, energize or grace way less usable in general or useless in the case of guardian (it would seem) would be a major MAJOR mistake tho. Nerfing them in general makes no sense at all. They are the most expensive items in game, in every way (time and money). They are fine as is (independently). An items a lot of veterans don’t even have access to at max rank. A TRUE endgame item in a game with no endgame. (Do something about that btw)

New levels added - fine

Not stacking - fine, I guess, bc of the above

Nerfing then, a long with potentially killing pellet based weapons, that will render all the good things you want to implement useless to most current none-“8/10”-knowing what they are talking about and could actually help you improve the game overall-players

I hope this gets tested thoroughly with players involved. And not just yay sayers/casual players. But players actually heavily invested in Arcanes and how the game works.

There is still a lot that needs to be addressed and more will surely come. But now I’m closer to where I was earlier in confidence that we can work it out across the board (and table).

Looking forward to getting my hands on the changes.

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by XXELENT
Arcanes, ofc.

[xinobae]

Dang. really wished they'd put out like a generic deluxe skin that could be equipped on all frames. The Nova skin is amazing, dammit. Shame I don't really play Nova.

[(PSN)Gorbihn]

On ‎2020‎-‎02‎-‎28 at 8:21 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Infested Damage:
We did not want to overlook the Infested in our review. Infested are close-range enemies that telegraph most attacks - and now if one of those attacks hits you, it simply does more damage. Stay agile, stay moving, and the mission is as good as won!

If you're going to go this, please decrease the spawn rates for Disruptor and Venomous ancients. Healers are fine, but I would find these Ancients more bearable if they had spawn rates similar to the Caustic Ancients. It's annoying to kill one toxic eximus just to instantly die because three more are already there behind a wall or something.

[Lone_Dude]

Make toxic changes, receive toxic responses. You don't double-dip on nerfs and force the entierty of the playerbase to farm a whole additional stack of arcanes unless you're looking for trouble and negativity. Should I drop the game for 3 to 4 months again, since it seems that it usually takes you that amount of time to "go back" on the grind? It happened to Liches and Railjack. Might happen work with arcanes if enough people flee to other games after you pull that one off.

I welcome the idea of Arcane changes. Getting rid of double-stacking for the sake of diversity sounds amazing. I use some weird builds from time to time and rely on pretty much every piece of equipment available while using some of my loadouts, so being able to use more arcanes is a great change. Meta arcanes getting reasonable nerfs and off-meta ones getting reasonable buffs - even better, even more diversity, more new builds and experiences.

However, what I see currently doesn't bring me any joy whatsoever. Not only did you straight up nerf some arcanes without buffing other arcanes in the same category to allow players to retain the current level of their functionality, but you also followed it up with a second dip by requiring a whole new set of arcanes to be farmed. It wouldn't be as bad if nerfs at least made sense, for example, Arcane Energize nerf seems reasonable because it is currently an extremely strong arcane for caster frames. But why would you nerf something like Arcane Guardian(proc chance, armor amount) or Arcane Ultimatum(duration)? You're not nerfing enemy damage, you're not boosting our armor, since it is now neutral and has neither weaknesses nor resistances.

Why the #*!% do we all have to grind for a new set of arcanes to slap on top of the ones we have already. Not everyone is double-stacking and you know that. If you're making arcanes easier to acquire, wouldn't it make more sense to just leave the stack sizes as is and let double-stacking players sell their arcanes? You wouldn't lose anything from that, right? The whole thing feels like another attempt at forcing players to stay in the game through grinding. And it won't help your numbers after the whole Liches and Railjack situation. Saying that it'll be okay because the new event rewards arcanes doesn't score any points with me and instead makes the whole deal look even worse.

It could be so great, you could tweak the numbers properly, completely revamp certain arcanes and create different ways of experiencing the game through them, but instead we got the usual paper-tested mediocre nerf-sandwich with a "malicious intent" sauce on top.

[El_Tone_420]

1 hour ago, GruntBlender said:

What do you mean? Of course you can upgrade an R2 to R3.

Sorry, you're correct, I have misunderstood the system mechanics 🙂

[Kylo.]

5 hours ago, thurmack said:

I believe the issues isn't the cooldown but, rather, that arcane energize currently still provides an energy boost through channeled abilities, when most other forms of energy restoration do not work. It's one of the few ways a player can, for example, maintain Dance Macabre or whatever Mesa's 4 is called.

I'm not necessarily arguing that this change is unfair, just letting you know that there's a bit more to it. If that option is no longer possible, a lot of builds may be hard hit.

And where do you have that information from?

[Kylo.]

2 hours ago, xlop404 said:

Long story short, Arcanes are getting the Itzal treatment .... we all know how that turned out.

Turned out great if you ask me.

[ValinorAtani]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Kylo.:

Turned out great if you ask me.

Come one, do you really like the Zipline? 😜