2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh.

[spicyframe420]

On 2020-02-29 at 12:07 PM, Cyro_the_Dragon said:

I agree a lot with this. Guardian is borderline necessary to have any real survivability with squish frames in high level content. As eventually you will be hit by something and multiple times when it happens. I don't use energize at all or even use efficiency mods for 90% of my builds and have no issues with energy while doing high level content. Energize was simply too good of a thing to last forever and wouldn't be as painful if it was addressed sooner. But sorry to all of you that got hit by the nerf bat, gets us all in the end.

It's not even that, beside just giving the survivability it offer breather for a new players, since it's easy to farm and "perfect" place filler in arcane slot. The few of the "main" meta things aren't even necessary in the first place, energize, grace - both have alternative mechanics to do the same things but with few extra steps.

As i see it or return the extra 5%, actually buff it from 20% to 35%, or add extra 100 or 200 armor for a rank5 guardian arcane.

Guardian arcane  "nerf" is just an example of too quick of a judgment, frankly the case with other arcanes which did not received "real" nerf. I won't be surprised that this happened because of the "usage" %, like with catchmoon, well yeah it is this good without being game breaking but unlike catchmoon people use it for the sake of filling up slot. 

 

Another thing, Chroma rework ? It is a god awful frame with single usable ability for a single purpose aka profittaker farm, all good and dandy but his 1, 4 do nothing despite looking cool, 2 and 3 are basically the same thing. With self damage gone the self mutilation to achieve that sweet sweet walking serration meta gone, there's quite no use for him, dead frame, and given you are working on improving old stuff which is great, there's some other things what needed rework for a very long time. 

[Mayonaiser]

Do we have a date or something close to it of when is this update is dropping?

[EvanGallaway]

The forum editor just saved a quarter of my post... so I'll be brief. *sighs*

I love these changes. Really. I wanted to comment on all of them, but first, 34 pages later, I invite all my fellow Tenno to relax. This is another "Old Blood" situation where everybody was panicking about melee weapons and we all see how it turned out: more viable weapons, melee being a lot more fun, and a shift in the meta. This patch will probably give another big shake to the meta, which is good in my opinion. I come from League of Legends, where the meta is subject every now and then to absolutely crazy turns, not always funny, but that help keeping the game fresh. Even if I don't like some changes sometimes. 

I understand your fears, I really do. But at the moment we just have a lot of data, which is good, but it's essentially numbers and pieces of information without the necessary context we need to assess our opinions. We don't know how it plays out, so please, let's just wait and let the devs do their job. Let's play the update thoroughly. And when we have to give our feedback, let's think. I felt their invitation to moderation in these last two streams. Let's be civil, and cooperative. 

About the changes to Arcanes, Shotguns, stats, Chroma... all we can do is wait. We based our builds and power on broken math and crazy stats, things they are now trying to fix for good. There is a bigger picture here, starting with enemy balance, and the skyrocketing enemy stats are the reason why we had to rely on certain statuses, certain builds and frames. Now that they are balacing enemies, what would happen if we ran through a map with our current level of power? Anything under level 200 would just become a two-minute slaughterhouse. Looking at this bigger picture, now we have unique armor with no weaknesses (for now), damage reduction shields, rebalanced enemies. Arcanes have been modified accordingly. Of course there must be Feedback, and of course we must explain, when the update drops and we have tested it for a while, what seems wrong and what we don't like. 

This update is a start, I think, so that Warframe can be a better game. They said it themselves.

As for me, I'm loving almost every bit of it. I'm perplexed and curious about Shotguns and Arcanes, interested in the new implementation of Status, and I'm loving the rebalance of enemies, Tenno armor and shields. Thank you so much for the removal of self-damage and mod sharing with Sentinels! I can finally build my Sentinels with something more than peashooters XD 
I hope the Railjack changes bring more people in this mode, and of course, I look forward to expansions for it! Also, loving Lich changes. Streamlining the grind a bit, very nice! 

Thank you for keeping us updated, looking forward to the mainline! 

[thurmack]

16 minutes ago, Kylo. said:

And where do you have that information from?

"Arcane Energize
On Rank 5: On Energy Pickup
60% chance to replenish Energy to nearby Allies
Added duration and Cooldown added (cannot re-trigger while active)."

I'm not saying it's conclusive, just that it is likely causing some players to worry.

[HolySeraphin]

Just now, Mayonaiser said:

Do we have a date or something close to it of when is this update is dropping?

Early March. They want it before Scarlet Spear which is also early March.

[thurmack]

17 minutes ago, ValinorAtani said:

Come one, do you really like the Zipline? 😜

I believe he may just be saying he likes that other AW got blink. The changes made Itzal less mandatory.

I don't think anyone likes zipline 🙂

[PhilfyRatBagz]

Hi DE,

First, don't look at my post history and think I'm some newbie! I'm a Day 1 xbox player with 4yrs 4.6k mission hrs before I quit due to the "at that time" stupid RnG and time gating that was present back then. I came back in Dec2019 on a new account on PC to find that the same BS RnG and time gating is now 5x worse in the new content than before. I'll save the rest of this part for it's own post elsewhere as feedback.

The above sounds salty I know, but it's mostly disappointment!

----------

As for the mainline, I have a couple of points of interest.

I built a Railjack, so thanks for the refund, but I only built it in fear of being locked out of future content. It is just like archwing, a horrible game mode that I don't want to spend 100's and 100's of hrs grinding the same crap missions. Both as a new player are a mountain so high with under-powered weapons, clunky controls and no one to play with. Certainly NO FUN!

Self damage: I think it's ok to please those who want this, but I think you should change a few certain mods that players can use to keep self damage on certain weapons with an improvement in damage. "Risk/Reward" I know you like band-aid fixes cough cough Chroma 🙂

Arcane Changes:

7 hours ago, AthariP said:

Most changes are good, I even got excited that you're listening to feedback once, but arcane changes ruin everything.

• Removing doublestacking? Okay, fine, but only if 1.5x buff is actually true, and it isn't.
• Less survivability from Arcane Guardian? You kind of acknowledge damage output of enemies being ridiculous at high levels by giving every new/reworked frame damage reduction, now armor buffs too. Let's hope something is done to damage output scaling too. However, currently it's pure nerf for squishy frames which are already avoided in high level missions.
• Less energy from Arcane Energize? In most cases it's offset by not spending hours upon hours building energy restores. As Saryn or Volt, I don't care about energy. I'm free to use energy restores at any point. However, it kills all channeling frames if you want to take them to high level missions.
  • Oberon? Removed from game. Disabling ability, spamming restores, recasting ability and jumping around trying to rebuff everybody means your teammates will die.
  • Ember? Removed from game. Disabling ability makes you lose all damage reduction, which means you will die.
  • Ivara? Painfull as hell. You have to regularly stop, cast invisibility arrow, spam restores, then recast ability. If you don't have energy for arrow, you die.
  • Titania, Excalibur etc. You have to stop and sit in one spot doing nothing in between casts of channeled abilities. If enemies find you, you die.
• Rank 5 arcanes? Good in theory, but it completely relies on acquisition. Getting R3 legendary arcanes requires 200 tridolons, which is crazy time investment already. Now players need more than twice that. Even if you're one of the very few doing 5x3, it's still 100 hours of gameplay — twice the time you spend on an average AAA game to play from start to finish just to fill an arcane slot. Could we get more information on how we're supposed to obtain arcanes now? People who spent plat on max rank arcanes will be angry too, as prices are as likely to drop as to skyrocket now that every veteran able to farm arcanes would level their own arcanes before selling anything. We need more information, it's crucial.
• Buffing less used arcanes? I'm convinced once more that DE devs don't play their game. Nobody uses arcanes with damage resistances not because they're weak, but because they're absolutely useless. Anti-magnetic is useful for eidolons, anti-toxin maaaybe for minmaxed squishy ESO builds. Nobody even uses anti-radiation arcanes in arbis because it's much easier to revive 5 times than to swap arcane once. No matter how much you multiply zero, it remains zero.

I appreciate a lot of changes, but removing Oberon, Ember, Ivara, Chroma from the game is unacceptable.

On this new account I started, I knew all about arcanes as I was a raid master and owned them all 10x over, but I also know that only a few of them are worth owning and the rest are fodder. The thing is, you call the ones worth owning as today's meta and not address the issue of 75% of them are just useless or once in a blue moon use.

 

I'm ok with removing double stacking!

I'm ok with the idea of rank 5

But I am TOTALLY against the nerfing via changes to how they proc (shield or health damage only from just damage) adding cooldowns, can't proc while in cooldown and MOST OF ALL any changes to the effects/statts of all current rank 3(max) arcanes.

I paid Platt for all my current (so called meta) arcanes, so please don't nerf my purchase!

 

[THE_ZEEK]

On 2020-02-28 at 5:21 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Railjack Onboarding changes:  
The Rising Tide Quest gives you your very own Railjack, but the barrier to entry is - conclusively with months of stats - too high. We are releasing a revised series of Blueprints (BP) in the Quest that sees costs reduced between 66% - 75% for Railjack parts, and building time reduced to 6 hours each.
There are 3 situations players may find themselves in:
1) Haven’t started Rising Tide. Anyone just beginning will have fully new reduced BP costs.
2) Has started Rising Tide. Anyone with any progress at all gets 1x Rush Repair Drone, and will transition to new costs on the next Stage. Any old costs will be refunded.
3) Rising Tide Complete. Anyone with a complete quest gets 2x Rush Repair Drone. All cost differences will be refunded. 

Why:
Upon Review, stats show truly the only people that saw Rising Tide to completion were our veterans, which was originally our intent to design content for veteran players.
However, to sustain the cost of future development and events like Scarlet Spear, accessibility is key and we have to adjust the barriers to entry for Railjack. For those who were early adopters, 2x Rush Repair Drones will be given out. Anyone with the Rising Tide Quest active will receive 1x Rush Repair Drone. For those unfamiliar with Rush Repair Drones: these items can only be acquired via rare drop in the Veil Proxima, as they allow you to instantly complete a given Armament or Component.

 

Playing this solo is not doable, which i think is the main reason for people not playing this, with all the problems before, with slow progression and glass tank for your railjack makes this a fairly boring gameplay. if you would just allow solo play and when not on board invulnarablity for your railjack, this would become a much more interseting gameplay, as it would replace/ add to the current archwing missions. I like these much better as they are much more of a dog fight for archwing.

 

On 2020-02-28 at 5:21 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Reward Cleanup: Base Missions.

great idea!, the only problem here is that planets and some nodes are still linked to MR progression.

As an active MR0 player (as my MR28 toon is boring AF), it would be really nice to see some changes here.

Content access on both planets, nodes, quests, not linked to MR, but linked to Node progression  & warframe unloccks. so if you unlock more than 10%, 15, 25, 50%etc  of the nodes, you will get access to following content. this feels much more dynamic to me than having to level up another Char.

The limitations that the MR 0 brings, actually makes me think and use different builds than on my max tier char.

Why limit yourself to only beeing able to play one particular way.. The option of going through content in any which way you like is much better than a lineair progression thet MR bring with it.

continuing on the MR0 playthrough.. it would be great if you could just set the progression to MR0 from the start.. this will exlude, any MR rankup *and thus exclude MR weapons/ rivens/ trading, but will allow access to the full content.

Edited March 1, 2020 by THE_ZEEK

[Grav_Starstrider]

Hey DE, this Devstream and workshop is, to quote the top comment on Youtube, ">literally the most important, game-changing dev stream I've ever seen"

Loving the fixing and balancing of broken AF math, love making Shields viable instead of laughable, love the second-look you guys are doing on Enemies in order to make them balanced. These are all things I've personally been looking forward to in the game, especially enemies being reworked, because I thought enemy balance was exactly what needed adjustment for the game to be in a healthy spot.

While you're shaking things up, I have a suggestion - Make "Damage" Slots on all of the weapon types (and rework Multishot, ideally). I made another post about it, pasted below. tl;dr, we never omit the damage mod on Primary, Secondary, and Melee weapons. It's a dead slot. We're also running into a *major* forma issue where we need every darn slot polarized in order to fit the build we want on weapons, with the introduction of the exilus slot. And half the time, the exilus slot needs to be re-forma'd too. If adding Exilus was a squeeze for forma purchases, I'd encourage you to dial it back by making the damage slot behave like Aura or Stance slots, where they bestow capacity rather than eat it. You can juggle the numbers around so they aren't giving 20 capacity, but I think that something always being used is really..... not rewarding or giving a player a sense of choice. It's worse than the Corrosive Projection 4-stack by a long shot.

Also, please give Chroma's 1 Ivara's Quiver treatment, cycle-elements, with a new passive (like Elemental Damage Reduction or Proc Duration on Self reduction).

 

[Teitaka]

Two places you could ADD the "Hold to confirm" mechanic that people would be thankful for are:

1) Kuva Larvlings.

2) Consigning pets (Puppy/Kitty blender)

The fomor people would probably be extemely thankful for.

[Kylo.]

1 hour ago, ValinorAtani said:

Come one, do you really like the Zipline? 😜

I don't play Itzal, I don't care

[Kylo.]

58 minutes ago, thurmack said:

"Arcane Energize
On Rank 5: On Energy Pickup
60% chance to replenish Energy to nearby Allies
Added duration and Cooldown added (cannot re-trigger while active)."

I'm not saying it's conclusive, just that it is likely causing some players to worry.

 

Yes that is DE's fault, they write stuff like this and never explain further, we will have to wait.

[warmastercain]

Arcane Guardian
On Rank 5: On Damaged:
15% chance for +600 Armor for 30s
this should be a 30% chance for +900 armor for 30 seconds de please dont give us a lower chance for the same armor buff for a 50% longer duration everything needs to be 50% better ok thanks

Edited March 1, 2020 by warmastercain

[(PSN)Glitschig]

Sounds like a lot of players are tired of being led like a bull with a nose ring.

This whole repeated practice Needs to stop. 

"ok, guys, all that stuff you put so much time and money into grinding at for hours upon countless hours is being changed...for the worse....again!   But wait...it's not so bad, ALL YOU GOTTA DO is come back and, instead of having a choice to play the content you want to, just play the exact content we want you to to make it appear our new content is awesome and being well received because....well...that's the only place you can get the drops you will need to get back to 90% of what you had before...IF we don't make the drop rates horrible as usual and IF you are willing to accept that something you invested 100 hours into and we're ready to try something new has to be done all over again.  You don't want to go our 'suggested' route?  That's ok.  You can go right back to the plains and farm those old eidolons another 200 times and further support the data of the very thing we were hoping to get away from.  Your call."

You can remove arcane guardian and Grace and energize out of the game all together and I still will never use arcane "candy bar increases your love for chocolate by 1% once every 250 seconds if your dog barks at the screen at the right time".  STOP dumbing down the game and STOP taking away the good stuff.  Make the bad stuff better or, heaven forbid, create new good stuff.  

Stop trying to make us buy yellow used Kia's by taking away all the black BMWs. 

 

[lukinu_u]

Le 28/02/2020 à 17:21, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

It is worth noting we are fixing a UI inconsistency that is ‘Display Only’. Right now the Arsenal shows Status Chance affected by Multishot, which makes reading the new >100% value confusing. For example, the Arsenal might say 120% but really the Status Chance is 80%. We don’t have Multishot affect any Critical Stats (Chance or Multiplier), so we are fixing this display inconsistency. Multishot now has its own Stat. 

Can this change also be made to damage itself and add a "pellet number" stat ?
Right know we have no way to know the pellet number of a weapon and damage they each deal without checking the wiki and doing the math ourselves.

Also, adding a "modded base damage" value to make proc calculations easier would be really helpful. It's not always easy to figure what is base damage or added types when weapons have innate elements or when using negative IPS rivens.

 

[Tayef]

will status affect bosses like lich and node bosses? i dont think status affects them now

if bosses dont get affected i prefer to stay on crit builds

[(PSN)Glitschig]

If this rolls out as stated, then the narrative has already been written-

"You're already dead, DE.  You know it.  I know it. My 15 friends who are betting on it know it."

Edited March 1, 2020 by (PS4)Glitschig

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

On 2020-02-28 at 12:40 PM, p_silveira said:

So, for high-shield enemies, Slash is gonna be useless? This only creates a new meta of toxin/gas.

That’s kind of the point. Once you have high enough damage stats corrosive is the only status that matters. Shields can just be overpowered. 

After the change we’ll have to mod specifically for shield or armour. 

[captainHalide]

DE : "We aren't sure why we have like 4 arcanes that are meta and 30-ish ones that just get completely ignored"

also DE : "We're releasing an arcane called Survival that just does the same thing as undying will except it has a 40% chance of not doing it."

 

I like the changes to the resistance mods.  Nerfing some of the survival mods seems like a good idea, though I'm not sure why the health regen related ones have cooldowns but the shield regen ones do not.  Looking forward to the update!

Edited March 1, 2020 by megalomaniacalHalide

[GruntBlender]

1 hour ago, THE_ZEEK said:

when not on board invulnarablity for your railjack,

Not necessarily invulnerability, but to stop enemies paying attention to it. That could be easier to do as well, have the enemies only target players, so the empty railjack gets ignored.

[Grav_Starstrider]

Just now, megalomaniacalHalide said:

I like the changes to the resistance mods, though.  Nerfing some of the survival mods seems like a good idea, though I'm not sure why the health regen related ones have cooldowns but the shield regen ones do not.  Looking forward to the update though!

Probably because shields already have cooldowns, and don't have armor scaling.

[Contra_]

Removing the ability to equip two of the same arcane just for the sake of "variety"? Please, you're killing me. Guess trying to get two arcane energize was just a massive waste of time and platinum. Hey, for future reference, if you're going to implement something like this don't just tack it on later, have it there when you release the content. 

Super annoying.

[Graavarg]

17 hours ago, (PS4)demishock said:

Shield Gating: Friend and Foe: When you say "headshots or shots to weakspots," do those weakspots include the ones that are highlighted by Banshee's Sonar and the like?

This is an excellent question. Since it would make both Banshee and Helios more meaningful, I'll change it into a plea:

Please make it so that the weakspots highlighted by Banshee's Sonar and Helios' Detect Vulnerability act like the built-in weakspots with regard to the shield-gating mechanics. Pretty please!

[SosseBargeld585]

please don't nerf energize, it's so hard to get

[Zhantzher]

On 2020-02-28 at 1:21 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

100x Restore Blueprints (Scaling Costs).

Please extend that for Ciphers as well!

 

On 2020-02-28 at 1:21 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Sharing Sentinel Mods:

Also, please take a look at the stasis system for companions. It's still very cumbersome to swap them across multiple loadouts.