2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh.

[GPrime96]

22 minutes ago, uberfu said:

This is rather disappointing.  Moving forward from Railjack and Scarlet Spear -- it looks as if DE is pushing WF more and more towards full on Multi-player ONLY and away from Single Player Co-op.

Yeah SP was dying before and getting worse after Mainline.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

How will new players access lore heavy events after they end?

[(PSN)Ares_Arizen]

With great power comes great responsibility. Don't remove self damage DE. Ruins the fun. Sends wrong message about recklessness. Don't use explosive weapons in Warframe if you don't wanna blow yourself up and can't stop. It's like removing the skill requirement of using a projectile based bow. Rocket launchers go boom and kill things. If your health within the destructive capability of the payload...Bye bye. :) Removing that is dumbing down the game. Being staggered and brought to your knees to be slaughtered by your enemy removes the onus. You messed up when you took the wrong shot.

 

Keep it real with self damage. Great power great responsibility.

[Roland_Snow]

After spending a little while (I was surprised when I checked to see the time and realized it had been over an hour) reading the larger comments in the forum, I thought I’d take my first go at doing a large scale response in a forum post. As with most other people so far, I’ll try to keep my comments in a section layout corresponding to the original post.

Prologue

Not much to say here, I’ve never really disagreed with your design policies for Warframe. Probably a 10/10 agreement for me.

1) Railjack Onboarding Changes

Nice to see a bonus beyond the full refunds (though probably not for Argon since we generally don’t get that refunded) after having finished my railjack within the first few days of Rising Tide. Will be nice to have more people to play with, even if personally I prefer to solo Empyrean content so far. 10/10 here.

2) Railjack Bug Fixes

Is there a link to the full list of proposed fixes or will we just have to wait for the patch notes in a few days? Not really an issue, just curious. 9/10 simply because I’d like to see the whole list. But if it wasn’t included, it was probably long enough to warrant its own post.

3) Armor/Health/Shield

S curves are definitely an improvement from the exponential growth they had before. Our space ninja builds can only get so powerful so its to see that mass produced gear (at least lore wise) also has its limits. I was kinda hoping to see more damage proc reworks after heat’s, so it was nice to see everything looked for the upcoming mainline.

I agree with a few other posts I saw around the forum, its great to see enemies archetypes have a limited number of solutions and damage procs to all feel unique, but it still feels kinda weird that slash (which has always felt like bleed damage) to not actually bleed enemy units any more. Not sure it can be helped if slash is to stand apart from toxin, but I’m sure it’ll be fine.

About a 9/10 for me here.

4) Infested Damage

I don’t see the damage increase being too large so not much a problem with this section. As a melee main its gonna feel weird to disengage with melee enemies and go ranged, but I can adapt. 8/10 here.

5) AI Aimbots

Never had any problems with this before but nice to see it addressed. 10/10.

6) Shield Gating

Initially I was all for this change, but as I read varying perspectives on the topic, my own started to shift. For friend shield gating, I agree it’ll feel nice to have fewer 1-shots in the game as those always break immersion into flow of combat. However, it also lowers the importance of having larger amounts of shields. Unless Warframe shields receive a recharge adjustment so that larger shield totals recharge faster otherwise small amounts of shield would be best so you could have the most uptime for health protection. No problems with the foe shield gating, I love the new mechanics that make shield units feel less like enemies with extra health that’s blue. 7/10 here.

7) Self Damage Changes

I never cared for it that much, and only really enjoyed one mission because I caught myself thinking tactically about where I was placing my kuva bramma explosions. That may have been more because of I rarely use explosive weapons as I favor bows (kuva bramma is a nice combination of the two) than the possibility of self-damage because I was running a tank Ember with a bow I hadn’t really modded yet since I was still leveling it for the first time.

Self-interrupt is another great innovation and I agree with changes that benefit 40-odd Warframes and a few (no idea how many) explosive weapons over one Warframe interaction, but as I read further into the forum I started to see other implications for self-damage. One, resetting your Warframe when you get bugged an /unstuck or other methods don’t work. Two, real and consistent consequences for explosions. Shooting off an explosive while still in its radius should have more of an impact. 9/10.

😎 Excavator Health/Shield Scaling Changes

Same with everyone else on the forum, great to see this implemented. 10/10.

9) Titania Changes/Vauban Tweak

Never really played Titania when she came out. She was fun at first but I still sucked at Warframe builds so I couldn’t get her to work properly. Vauban armor increase is always nice. 10/10.

10) Reward Changes: Nodes

Bloat removed and higher reward output with no real downsides. 10/10.

11) Select UI Changes

All good here. 10/10.

12) 100x Restore Blueprints

Never touched pizzas until about 3 months ago and still don’t really use them so I don’t really know how much of an impact this is. Always nice to have more options thought so 10/10.

13) Sentinel Mods: Shared Usage

One of the things that made me never really like sentinels was not being able to share mods. Probably still won’t really use them but a nice change nonetheless. 10/10.

14) Arcane Changes

I agree with these changes on the whole, and what discrepancies there are in the previewed table are probably just typos. Its also nice to see proc resistance for all damage types and having arcanes fall in line with everything else so that you can only have one of a type equipped at once. My one problem with this section is the addition of cooldowns being added to arcanes. One of the main design philosophies for this mainline is bringing about consistency between more systems within Warframe, yet cooldowns are exceedingly rare in the game. The first ones that come to mind are the Empyrean crafting forge, which does not affect combat since you have 4 benches to work off of, and archwing blinking. Almost no other aspect of the game has cooldowns in it. If cooldowns were added to arcanes, it may depower the meta arcanes thereby increasing diversity of usage, but it would also add more inconsistency within Warframe, not decrease it. 6/10 here.

15) Greater than 100% Status having meaning

I started as a status builder in Warframe and was thrilled to see both Condition Overload and Healing Return when they were released. Crit has always seemed stronger to me so it’ll be nice to get greater utility from status to compensate for lower overall damage. Increased status effects seem really fun to work with and I can’t wait to see the full layout for they interact. It may be a sidegrade or nerf, but shotguns were broken before and it’ll be nice to see them be more consistent with other weapon classes in-game (and have multiple status procs actually matter).

My one problem with this is that endgame content releases have been increasingly status immune. Sure, we can status all the normal and Eximus enemies, but anything with a name or Sentient still doesn’t care. I get you want them to be harder to kill but being immune to half our arsenal and forcing us to go crit (other half of arsenal) against them isn’t very satisfying. If you still want something akin to that, at least make them status resistant for either proc chance or effect. 7/10.

16) Status Mod Buffs

Not sure if they’ll be used unless made into Exilus slots, but its nice to get some love for mods that weren’t even worth consideration before. 10/10.

17) Grenade Markers

Nice to have more varied warning. Guess our Warframes’ neuroptics all got a software patch. 10/10.

18) Kuva Lich Murmur/Fixes

I may farm lichs in solo play, but still nice to have for those who go in squads. A lot of people complain about lichs requiring too many murmurs, but if you discover them in order a lich can be downed in only about 2 hours. My biggest problem with lichs is how low their Rage meter gets after they laugh at (previously kill) you. I guess it’s a great way for them to work out their anger, but most of the system feels like we don’t even interact with them while we farm their rage back up. Lich Rage only going down one tier (two at the most) would feel a whole lot better than killing time waiting for your nemesis to finally take notice again that you are raiding their territory. A step in the right direction but still not enough, 7/10.

19) Deferred Rendering Preview

My computer probably won’t be able to run with that enabled, but its great for those who can. 10/10.

20) Preview HDR rendering

Same as last section, not really anything to add. 10/10.

21)

High FOV feels too weird for me so I stick to default. 90 FOV Gauss looks hilarious and I’m glad that’s possible now. 10/10.

Conclusion

Overall, this mainline is great for course correcting some of the most dated or inconsistent aspects of the game, but it misses it’s stride in a few areas. The areas of greatest contention right now will probably be addressed in the following hotfixes and overall I’d probably rate my agreement with this mainline at around 93%.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Roland_Snow
Changed my mind after taking more time to reconsider.

[Svenarx]

AI Aimbots
Up until now in Warframe, the higher the enemy level, the better their accuracy. High-level enemies would be pinned at the best Accuracy they are capable of - not quite 100%, but getting pretty close! Things like your movement and Mods would reduce accuracy, but the potential for bad ‘Aimbot’ moments was too high. We have spread this progression across a greater range of AI now We are decoupling enemy accuracy from level to reduce the overall ‘Aimbot’ like behaviours you face at higher levels.

 

How this AI Aimbots will affect Octavia Mallet ?

With Energy Nerf (the cooldown and duration), it ll no more able to play Naramon with some warframe and build (like Khora or saryn) !?

[Oblivire]

I understand why the arcane change has to happen, but I use Arcane Energize primarily to let me use Exalted weapons forever, especially Titania's Razorwing.  It makes playing her a lot more fun-  Otherwise I'd play Gara all the time just because she's usually better.  It sounds like it's becoming an energy recharge overtime, which is fine, but will it still affect you when you use Exalted weapons?

[Grave.Knight]

I just want to point out that Arcane Trickster will be a better source for invisibility than Smoke Screen. So unless Smoke Screen is going to get a buff, Arcane Trickster will make Smoke Screen obsolete.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Grave.Knight

[(PSN)codiwu]

Introducing a new secondary mod that adds self damage could be a nice way to appease both sides of the self damage argument. Chroma players could equip it on their hikous and it works out since you don't really need that many mods for that build to begin with.

[(PSN)Hayden_Prime]

noticed no notice on railjack weapons getting fusion yet which we know ur doing, thank you Steve <3. but also need to know if that will be applied to the engines, shields and reactors. those have different buffs and id really like to max all of them.

[MaximumLeech]

I really can't express enough how thankful I am that DE is finally addressing some of the long-standing issues with their game. Sure, not everyone will agree on all the changes, but these are definitely steps in the right direction and will yield a much more enjoyable gameplay experience. Thanks for listening to our requests for quality of life updates instead of shoving out new content!

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Are these arcanes still gonna work with exalted abilities?

 

[Lancars]

Gonna see more deaths at the combo ancient harpoon spam and infested melee.

[Galadh]

8 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

DON'T remove self damage, it's the only drawback for shooting explosives at point blank. Yes, I know that there's a stagger, however it comes with a recover button and if the stagger is considered a "stagger" or "status" there are frames/mods to negate that.

DO nerf the Bramma, it has the highest single target AND AOE damage in the game above any other weapon. It's stupid how powerful it is.

As the wide sage said.

Aye!

(PS4)Ares_Arizen

With great power comes great responsibility. Don't remove self damage DE. Ruins the fun. Sends wrong message about recklessness. Don't use explosive weapons in Warframe if you don't wanna blow yourself up and can't stop. It's like removing the skill requirement of using a projectile based bow. Rocket launchers go boom and kill things. If your health within the destructive capability of the payload...Bye bye. 🙂 Removing that is dumbing down the game. Being staggered and brought to your knees to be slaughtered by your enemy removes the onus. You messed up when you took the wrong shot.

 

Keep it real with self damage. Great power great responsibility.

 

Yes, Tenno should cautious while being deadly when they're skilled. When they mess up, they should be messed up too - lack of skill, lack of bonus damage.

Just like... when you'd have a homing arrows with bows - use the freaking Bramma, fire and forget. You'd burn through everything just like that. And there would be no challenge anymore. No challenge - NO REASON TO PLAY anymore... You just burn through everything and you get burnt out and bored... and through with the game. Chapter closed - player quits.

Plat source quits.

Shot in your own knee, if you ask me.

Or at least make it worse consequence, not "just being staggered and thrown back". Doesn't work like that IRL. What is it - WF or a shooter game?

Edited March 2, 2020 by Galadh

[Galadh]

And guys,

one more thought on that Bramma thing:

 

If someone told me I would say something like that, I would show them the door or better yet, call a doctor and sent them away to a mental institution... but I am gonna say it, for the first time in my 3,5 year long playtime:

 

This weapon is WAAAAY too OVERPOWERED.

The only thing this baby needs is a mod, that switches the build profiles from the weapon's build sheets - like... you hit Grineer - change to corrosive+puncture on the fly. Wait - they're corpus? switch to viral build - and oh, it hits an Inester in crossfire mission - no problem, it auto-switches to slash build.

 

Actually, no - make it even more "fun" - let this mod be an exilus mod - "We wouldn't like to take up your lovely weapon's mod slot away from you, right Tenno?"

 

...

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Galadh
Typo

[Zilotz]

A long arcane changes feedback below, hiding in spoiler:
 

Spoiler

 

Arcane Acceleration
On Rank 5: On Critical Hit:
30% chance for 90% Fire Rate to Primary Weapons for 9s. 

Good

Arcane Aegis: 
On Rank 5: On Shield Damaged:
3% chance for +30% Shield Recharge for 12s.

No, it should be like

Arcane Aegis: 
On Rank 5: On Shield Damaged:
10% chance for +120 Shield Recharge for 40s.

Because what you proposed would make it not even worth time to put in slot.

Main thing of Arcane Aegis is FORCED shield regeneration for a good amount of time no matter what.

Arcane Agility
On Rank 5: on Damaged:
60% chance for +60% Parkour Velocity for 18s.

Good

Arcane Arachne 
On Rank 5: On Wall Latch:
150% Damage for 30s.
Cooldown added (cannot re-trigger while active).

Almost good, no cooldown needed, re-trigger should just refresh duration.

Arcane Avenger
On Rank 5: On Damaged:
21% chance for 45% Critical Chance for 12s

Good

Arcane Awakening
On Rank 5: On Reload:
60% chance for 150% Damage to Pistols for 24s
Good

Arcane Barrier
On Rank 5: On Shield Damaged:
6% chance to instantly restore all Shields.

Should be around 8-10%, it's rank 5 that takes double amount of arcanes.

Arcane Blade Charger
On Rank 5: On Primary Weapon Kill
30% chance for 300% Melee Damage for 12s

No opinion as this one is simply not for me(mechanics of triggering it is not in my habit)

Arcane Bodyguard 
On Rank 5: On 6 Melee Kills within 30s
Heal Companion for a greater amount. 

Weaker and unreliable version of Pack Leader, is it even needed?

Arcane Consequence
On Rank 5: On Headshot:
100% Chance for 60% Parkour Velocity for 18s. 

Good

Arcane Defense [UNRELEASED]:
On Rank 5: 
102% chance to resist a Puncture Damage effect

Not sure if it is needed

Arcane Deflection
On Rank 5: 
102% chance to resist a Slash Damage effect

Good

Arcane Detoxifier [UNRELEASED]:
On Rank 5: 
102% chance to resist a Toxin Damage effect

Good

Arcane Energize
On Rank 5: On Energy Pickup
60% chance to replenish Energy to nearby Allies
Added duration and Cooldown added (cannot re-trigger while active).

No, it should be

Arcane Energize
On Rank 5: On Energy Pickup
80% chance to replenish Energy to self and nearby Allies
No cooldown and no duration, as it is right now.

Why? Because main feature of it is to give energy to self, Allies energy is just a bonus and often we need tons of energy as fast as possible for surviving while energy draining skills are active.

Arcane Eruption
On Rank 5: On Energy Pickup
100% chance to Knockdown nearby enemies. 

Okay. Never used it as for me it gives nothing.

Arcane Fury
On Rank 5: On Critical Hit:
60% chance for +180% Melee Damage to Melee Weapons for 18s

Good

Arcane Grace
On Rank 5: On Health Damaged:
9% chance for +6% Health Regeneration/s for 9s
Cooldown added (cannot re-trigger while active).

No, it should be

Arcane Grace
On Rank 5: On Health Damaged:
10% chance for +8% Health Regeneration/s for 9s
With no cooldown, re-trigger should just refresh duration.

Why did people double-stack it? Because one was not enough already. And cooldown will make it horribly unreliable.

Arcane Guardian
On Rank 5: On Damaged:
15% chance for +600 Armor for 30s

No, it should be

Arcane Guardian
On Rank 5: On Damaged:
40% chance for +1200 Armor for 30s

No need to nerf survivability, we need it to keep playing (you did nerf armor values but enemy firepower currently is enough(past some level) to one-shot every frame(except Hildryn, she will die on second shot because of shield gating).

Arcane Healing
On Rank 5:
+102% chance to resist a Radiation Damage effect

Good

Arcane Ice
On Rank 5:
+102% chance to resist a Heat Damage effect

Good

Arcane Liquid [UNRELEASED]
On Rank 5:
+102% chance to resist a Gas Damage effect

Good

Arcane Momentum
On Rank 5: On Critical Hit:
60% chance for +150% Reload Speed to Sniper Rifles for 12s

Good

Arcane Nullifier
On Rank 5:
+102% chance to resist a Magnetic Damage effect

Good

Arcane Phantasm
On Rank 5: On Parry:
45% Chance for +60% Speed for 18s

Good

Arcane Pistoleer
On Rank 5: On Pistol Headshot Kill:
60% Chance for 102% Ammo Efficiency for 12s
Cooldown added (cannot re-trigger while active).

Just remove cooldown and it will be good

Arcane Precision
On Rank 5: On Headshot:
100% Chance for 300% Secondary Weapon Damage for 18s
Cooldown added (cannot re-trigger while active).

No need for cooldown, already it's not easy to land well headshots.

Arcane Primary Charger
On Rank 5: On Melee Kill:
30% chance for +300% Primary Weapon Damage for 12s

No opinion, not my cup of tea

Arcane Protection [UNRELEASED]
On Rank 5:
+102% chance to resist a Corrosive Damage effect

Good

Arcane Pulse - Increased stats and added cool down
On Rank 5: On Health Pickup:
30% chance to Heal nearby allies

Should be

Arcane Pulse
On Rank 5: On Health Pickup:
40% chance to Heal self and nearby allies

No cooldown needed as this arcane fits well only ONE frame in the game.

Arcane Rage
On Rank 5: On Headshot:
15% chance for a +180% Damage to Primary Weapons for 24s

Good

Arcane Resistance
On Rank 5:
+102% chance to resist a Toxin Damage effect

Good but same as Detoxifier

Arcane Shield [UNRELEASED]
On Rank 5:
+102% chance to resist an Impact Damage effect

Good

Arcane Strike
On Rank 5: On Hit:
15% chance for +60% Attack Speed to Melee Weapons for 18s

Should be

Arcane Strike
On Rank 5: On Hit:
20% chance for +80% Attack Speed to Melee Weapons for 18s
Because amount of arcanes spent for rank 5 is huge.

Arcane Survival [UNRELEASED]
On Rank 5: On Predeath:
60% chance for -150% Bleedout Rate for 60s

Not so much useful because it is unreliable.

Arcane Tanker 
On Rank 5: On Archgun Equipped:
+1800 Armor for 24s
Cooldown added (cannot re-trigger while active).

Good

Arcane Temperance [UNRELEASED]
On Rank 5:
-90% Damage Taken During Revive

Great, but only if we have extra arcane slot for it.

Arcane Tempo
On Rank 5: On Critical Hit:
15% chance for +90% Fire Rate to Shotguns for 12s

Good

Arcane Trickery
On Rank 5: On Finisher:
15% chance to become invisible for 30s

I would give it 50% chance from how complicated finishers became with melee rework and how weak they are without Covert Lethality(which is fully dead by the way).

Arcane Ultimatum
On Rank 5: On Finisher:
100% chance for +1200 Armor for 8s

Good

Arcane Velocity
On Rank 5: On Critical Hit:
90% chance for +120% Fire Rate to Pistols for 9s
Good

Arcane Victory
On Rank 5: On Headshot Kill:
75% chance for 3% Health Regeneration/s for 9s

Good

Arcane Warmth
On Rank 5:
+102% chance to resist a Cold Damage Effect.

Good

 

 

[Galbekan]

On 2020-02-28 at 8:18 PM, Helch0rn said:

Steve looked really tired during the stream

don't overwork yourself

Scott too, seemed like he was dozing off. Might just be the beer though hahahah.

[chaotea]

On 2020-02-28 at 4:21 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

When any shields are active, an incoming hit that depletes your last bit of Shields will not continue into your Health pool, and also triggers a brief time where your Health is protected.

It would be cool if this HP protection was effected by Sheild Pool size. More Sheild = more protection, to give even more reason to mod for sheilds.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Ya know, since you merged two of Vauban's abilities, why not just merge Titania's spellbind and lantern since they do almost the same thing and make another ability like healing with this would be nice

[Darth_BOR]

On 2020-02-28 at 9:21 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

After at the max of 90:
 

At last!

Now please, let us control the camera distance and fix away that damn host migration and client-side loot.

 

[Buddhakingpen]

With the advent of the enemy shield gating changes, I think you guys should probably do something about hydroid at this point. I've always defended him, because he's had hidden tricks that could take advantage of certain game mechanics, which are slowly getting wiped away. The game is becoming more streamlined, and every frame is attaining a new level of power. I mention hydroid because all of his abilities make headshots way harder to accomplish, and his only dps ability is sitting in his pool. I'm not the type to throw around rework suggestions, but maybe find a way for him to either deal more damage, or hold enemies in place better. Because these changes are going to make him borderline unusable. Good for the health of the game, but he's getting powercreeped out of the game, and he wasnt even reworked that long ago. 

[-GrT-kostasp99]

i think since you revise and revisit stuff its time for FORMA CHANGE for less grind and consider this change which is easy and more helpfull for the players

make it possible to put all forma on any weapon or warframe we want and not one by one and the xp needed for the weapon to be full in 30 lvl it will be the same as all the forma you put one by one. for example now you want 400.000xp for a weapon to reach 30 lvl and you put 4 forma at once then the requiered xp will be 400.000x4 forma

and its easy and less in and out of missions just to grind xp 

another change is to give us the choice to put different formas on different slots in the builds  in different configurations  so config a has other polarizations than the config b 

SO TWO CHANGES TO GRIND and TWO QOL CHANGES
1) forma changes  to be able to forma a weapon all at once
2) polarize different slots in configs

[kyori]

Can we have some REAL revision/changes like our most-used gear? I haven't use most of them in more than a year but they still appear in my most-used gear profile.

[Svenarx]

It LL be hard to make ESO missions with an arcane energize nerfed..  (No gear in this mode). In game players will say :

"Dps !!! Use your 4 on Saryn"

"Wait, take your time..  I'm waiting the cooldown from arcane energize, Just 10 sec..."

5sec after...

"Sorry, ennemies kill us"

Thumbs Up (or down) for DE

Edited March 2, 2020 by Svenarx

[WeaselBoy]

9 hours ago, Roland_Snow said:

Initially I was all for this change, but as I read varying perspectives on the topic, my own started to shift. For friend shield gating, I agree it’ll feel nice to have fewer 1-shots in the game as those always break immersion into flow of combat. However, it also lowers the importance of having larger amounts of shields. Unless Warframe shields receive a recharge adjustment so that larger shield totals recharge faster otherwise small amounts of shield would be best so you could have the most uptime for health protection. No problems with the foe shield gating, I love the new mechanics that make shield units feel less like enemies with extra health that’s blue. 7/10 here.

Larger shields do recharge faster by virtue of not being completely depleted from a single shot. The recharge delay for a semi-hurt shield is going to be only 1 second as opposed to 4 seconds with a full depletion. And larger shields regen faster naturally. Combined, the larger shield capacities will be able to protect health significantly better from chip damage. 

The invuln window, as Scott described it, is extremely small. Large enough that a burst weapon like the Hind won't gib you on shots 2 and 3, but small enough that as a player you can't actually do anything with it. So like .2s at best. It isn't like Hildryn's where you can actually build and plan around it.

[(PSN)Midcall]

Am 28.2.2020 um 21:30 schrieb eboomer:

I think some means of still doing self damage would be good for build diversity.  Maybe a corrupted mod that increases damage or splash radius or provides some other valuable benefit, and in exchange deals some self damage?  Or an augment for Chroma, or have one weapon still deal some amount of self damage?

There are also some cases, particularly with Mirage, where you want to inflict a status effect on yourself.  I hope that this is still possible in some way or another, or that you give us a more direct way to be able to control what Mirage buff we get.

I also wonder if this would apply to self damage to our operators from our amps.  I know some people don't like the self damage that some amps deal during Eidolon hunts (you can one shot yourself easily).

i would  like to know this too. ... after 800 hydro caps with chroma i tested mirage last days and she pretty awesome. one umbra forma chroma got, 1-2 mirage will get. im scared to put in work now and in 1-2 weeks it wont function any more.