2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh.

[Circle_of_Psi]

On 2020-03-01 at 4:46 AM, master_of_destiny said:

DE, I keep reading through this, and it's utterly mind boggling about all the things you've decided to do here and how little it seems you've really thought through it.  Let me be real here, the entire thing you're doing with arcanes demonstrates that you don't get how your own game works.  This is damage 3.0 from years ago all over again, because you seem to have learned nothing.

 

Let's say that I choose to run with a build, and cannot use any of the meta arcanes.  No energize, guardian, or anything else.  Should I choose any of the arcanes which give me a status immunity?  The answer is no.  It would be absolutely stupid.  Why?  Rolling Guard.  I get invulnerability, and after rolling I get all status ailments cured.  This means that I can cure a toxic, gas, and slow status condition all at once while getting a very brief window where there's no incoming damage.  No two arcanes can provide that now, which is why all of the current batch arcanes are avoided.

 

Let's look at the guardian arcane.  Current effect is 600 armor for 20 seconds, with a 20% trigger chance.  New version loses 5% trigger chance, lasts 10 extra seconds, but will require more than twice the investment.  It also could stack only with Ultimatum, at twice the value but only an 8 second duration for the huge investment.  I can see not allowing a double stack for 1200 armor at 20 seconds because that makes a lot of frames capable of eating the crappy scaling damage, even if they happen to be Vauban.

 

What about Energize?  Current highest rank is a 40% chance to grant 100 extra energy to allies within 10 meters.  You want to increase its chances, but apply a cooldown with no statistics provided despite rolling this out in "early March."  Yeah, that sounds like you guys have done enough testing to warrant this slight increase in triggering to cost more than twice as many arcanes to be ground at 5% drop rates.

 

Let me be clear, if you release this crap it's going to cause another exodus.  Old Blood introduced Liches, and it was transparent RNG that was not fun.  Railjack launched as a broken and buggy mess.  Two months in to 2020 and you want the first mainline to be the functional death of arcanes and a new painful grind to just get them up to the effective power they had for the last several years.  Are you really that stupid to believe that we will accept this kind of transparent increase to grind without any fun being added?

 

Let me remind you of the last time you tried this crap.  Slash was the king of damage, so you wanted to nerf it into the floor, have impact cause enemies to fall over, and puncture to work similarly to how heat procs work now without any slow-down to enemy damage output.  The community at large told you this was a stupid idea, and it took something like 30+ pages of feedback in a few days to make you see why this was such a stupid idea.  That was damage 3.0, and it took more than two years for you to walk that back and focus on the still developing melee rework.  

Welcome back.  This is stupid.  We see you wanting to extend content without making more.  We see you trying to justify this as a package, while transparently telling us that your game is becoming more and more pay to win.  

Go through with these changes and I'm done.  I'd like to tell you otherwise, but if you want to tell me to go to Hell I'll suggest you do the same.  For the time you expect me to grind I can work a real job, buy a new computer, buy dozens of games new, and have hundreds of dollars left over to fly to your office and deliver you a bunch of red, blue, and green frosted cupcakes. 

For those who don't remember, that's what happened when Mass Effect 3 ended with a choose one of three options cinematic, when the explicit promise of Bioware was choices matter and that the series would not do exactly that.  If arcanes are changed as advertised there's no reason left to play Warframe.  This will be the third update in a row entirely focused on the monetization, with nothing included that isn't tainted by it.  Everything else can be debated, but the arcane tinkering is just transparent pay to win crap being kicked under the door at the 11th hour with an otherwise potential laden update.  Yes, there's things to be concerned with regarding the shotguns and self damage.  I can offer the benefit of doubt with them.  I can't offer any positivity when DE is requiring a low percentage drop, on a timed mission, which often bugs out, to suddenly require more than twice as many rewards to just be as good as we already have.

 

It's your move DE.  Can you understand that simply carving out the arcane update, and waiting to update it until everyone has adjusted to the new meta, is the most sane choice?  Will you decide that 30+ pages of player feedback raising all kinds of issues is not worth listening to?  Will you demonstrate that the minor bump in players was a freak accident, because you're still not willing to give us what we transparently desire?  Will you understand that your steam player count is at pre-PoE levels, entirely because of the gigantic string of bad decisions and effectively dead on arrival releases due to your hubris?

If you don't get it yet, Destiny is eating your lunch.  Metro is now on Steam.  Monster Hunter World is beating you silly.  Rocket League is beating you and they functionally announced that development was dead on Linux and will be a trickle on Steam.  I'd ask you take all of that into consideration, because once the free players dry up your whales won't have anyone to buy from.  The better part of a decade in and you don't even have a trading hub within your game.  Consider me bewildered that instead of fixing all of the broken things you're spending resources on making more grind in the game.

Can't agree more, I've stopped playing WF and moved to Destiny 2 for this EXACT reason, I've never tired Monster Hunter, but might do, just in spite. With the Value Index also becoming a thing and Half Life Alyx, alone with the games you suggested, Yeah, WF is losing and they still can't understand that concept. 

[TheArQu]

And now remake Cautious Shot to Uncautious shot: +100% damage but you take self-damage

So lil *@##$es can have their safe explosives and real men can rule 😎

[iNew_Vexx]

Kuva lich system(Murmur): To much grinding for one weapon, even for warframe.  We have many examples of grinding for many others weapons that players have to invest some time, but not that much grinding, like acceltra, akarius, opticor vandal, etc. 

This, maybe, would justify if kuva weapons are extremely powerfull, and only a few are, like kuva brahmma, nukor and kohm.

 

Self-damage: The fun part of playing with self-damage weapons is the fear part. You need to be careful with your aiming and this is great because skillfull players get better results. Is always good reward skill over press buttom.

I hope this stagger effect come with something else, like a blind or disorient effect, or maybe you need to pick up your weapon on the ground.

 

[Karden]

Thanks DE for all the fixes! the FOV increase is a fix i've been waiting for a long time, thanks again for that. I just don't like the fact that your removing self damage, for me it made Arbitration more challenging and exciting (but I think the vast majority of player don't like self damage, so i'm ok with that). Keep up the good work!

Edited March 2, 2020 by Karden

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-02-29 at 7:39 PM, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

I really do feel like her 3 doesn't get the love it deserves. I mean, it's a decent mobility tool. Not just for open maps but also for missions like Mobile Defense or Sabotage where a good part of the mission is to actually get to the objective.

My personal preference is having her range at default to have some decent reach with her 3. But I know this clashes with the DR from her 1. (it also usually means forgoing the use of Narrow Minded to increase duration)

 

If you read my ideas for nova I address the range issue with her 1st ability. This proves DE don`t play their game, common (warframe) sense say if I can go though it why can`t anything else go though it.

[DomiXD76]

I am glad that you guys are always working on making Warframe better. I have but one question: what will happen to Hildryn's passive? Now that all frames are getting a Hildryn-like "shield passive", will helicoptermom get a diffrient passive? If yes, i have a suggestion. 

35%-50% shield damage reduction, and/or 35%-50% shield recharge amount/speed. This could make her compete with the more tanky warframes, and my aim here is to make an Inaros based around shields, giving her shield increased "shield armor", giving her a bigger reason to be used. 

[xPolga]

RIP Grace RIP Energize

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 hour ago, Khaeji said:

Kuva lich system(Murmur): To much grinding for one weapon, even for warframe.

Simple way to fix that is to just allow way more Murmur to be granted per-mob, or I don't know, don't make it the system it is today. If the Demo showed us anything, Kuva Liches was suppose to be this Lich that hunts you for days, not farmed by stabbing his "buddies" and then getting the correct roll.

[(PSN)Et_Zetera]

All these changes are pretty amazing! Thanks DE for working these into your busy schedules 😄

[ChiefNotAClue]

was curious is there a way to change how to cycle through the multi abilities 2 of Vaughban. I find it very frustrating that the cast and change buttons are the same. I have died so many times because of this one flaw in Vaughban. I know others will say that he is such a bad frame but in my honest opinion is my fav frame. so this would be greatly helpful not just for him but for other frames that have multi abilities with in there abilities.

 

[SaintSigmaX]

I like most of the changes that are talked about in this review, but I'm extremely concerned about the arcane changes as a veteran who has invested heavily in arcanes.

First of all if you are going to add a cool down to arcanes like grace and energize we need to know exactly what how you plan to make them work and how long they are.

Second, arcanes are supposed to be the final tier of upgrades but so many of them are very lackluster and not even worth using yet you are nerfing the "most common/powerful" arcanes while not really giving us alternatives that are worth slotting in. in reality you're just going to see players continue to use the same arcanes as they did before, except they will just be worse.

Third, if arcanes scale the same way they do now people who already own a double stack of max arcanes will not even be able to get a new R5 right away, we'll have to earn/buy an additional one just so they can have less benefit at max rank.

Those are the major ones, but also non-freshable buffs are a pain in the buff, nerfs to existing proc chances like in the case of guardian are also awful, they should be BUFFED to 1.5x their current chance not nerfed, and again cooldowns we really need to know what these CD's are going to be.

At the end of the day I would have been really happy if you had just given us the equivalent of a double stack and called it a day. Acanes are supposed to be powerful and they require a lof of investment, so they should be worth using. also 1.5 efficacy does seem a little low considering we will likely have to invest *even more* into the arcanes we already own, you couldn't have given us 1.75-1.8?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Everyone who has R3 arcanes need to be retroactively Rank 5 when this update drops! It'll be a huge mistake if you don't. Your forums will burn and you will receive tons of negative backlash. Choice is yours.  Hope you guys make the right one.

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by (XB1)YoungGunn82

[(PSN)Vexx757]

 

[Almagnus1]

4 hours ago, Svenarx said:

It LL be hard to make ESO missions with an arcane energize nerfed..  (No gear in this mode). In game players will say :

"Dps !!! Use your 4 on Saryn"

"Wait, take your time..  I'm waiting the cooldown from arcane energize, Just 10 sec..."

5sec after...

"Sorry, ennemies kill us"

Thumbs Up (or down) for DE

Use Naramon with a good build and it's not a problem.

[Gehirnspaghetti]

Am 28.2.2020 um 17:21 schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

Arcane Nullifier

On Rank 5:
+102% chance to resist a Magnetic Damage effect

There's multiple examples of this but I'll pick Arcane Nullifier to illustrate it.

On equiping two of these, this only needed to proc once before to give the full effect of the arcane.

Equipping two Arcane Nullifiers (each fully ranked, with a proc probability of 80%) gave you a 96% probability to resist the status effect (reverse probability of [probability of Arcane A not proccing * probability of arcane B not proccing] = 1-[0.2*0.2] = 0.96).
Not only is does 102% of resisting something seem like someone didn't double-check the numbers (I don't want to point fingers here, y'all are evidently hard at work with an update which has a Dev-workshop of half a forum page, but it really looks like that's what's happened), but even giving us 100% resistance is a massive Buff as 96% still has you planning what you will do if the proc does hit you, while 100% has you just ignoring part of the enemys attack entirely without thinking about it.

I just want to prevent unintentional buffs here since we all know the one thing tenno hate more than nerfs of their favourite loadouts is when the reason stated is "we intended it that way in the first place".

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Gehirnspaghetti
EDIT: It works additively atm, which means a R3 and a R0 Arcane Nullifier are in fact enough to reach 100% chance of negation. 102% is still kinda weird though.

[Ham_Grenabe]

6 minutes ago, Gehirnspaghetti said:

There's multiple examples of this but I'll pick Arcane Nullifier to illustrate it.

On equiping two of these, this only needed to proc once before to give the full effect of the arcane.

Equipping two Arcane Nullifiers (each fully ranked, with a proc probability of 80%) gave you a 96% probability to resist the status effect (reverse probability of [probability of Arcane A not proccing * probability of arcane B not proccing] = 1-[0.2*0.2] = 0.96).
Not only is does 102% of resisting something seem like someone didn't double-check the numbers (I don't want to point fingers here, y'all are evidently hard at work with an update which has a Dev-workshop of half a forum page, but it really looks like that's what's happened), but even giving us 100% resistance is a massive Buff as 96% still has you planning what you will do if the proc does hit you, while 100% has you just ignoring part of the enemys attack entirely without thinking about it.

I just want to prevent unintentional buffs here since we all know the one thing tenno hate more than nerfs of their favourite loadouts is when the reason stated is "we intended it that way in the first place".

If I remember rightly, since it's a passive buff, the behavior was additive (and the wiki suggests the same). One R3 and one R0 nullifier and you were simply immune to the proc (I know I was during eidolon hunts).

I still don't know why they have 102%, but we already had access to 100%.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[Gehirnspaghetti]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Ham_Grenabe:

If I remember rightly, since it's a passive buff, the behavior was additive (and the wiki suggests the same). One R3 and one R0 nullifier and you were simply immune to the proc (I know I was during eidolon hunts). I still don't know why they have 102%, but we already had access to 100%. 

I thought to distincly remember myself getting mag procced in eidolon hunts even with 2 of these equipped but i might be wrong. I'll jump into game and try to check it

[Ham_Grenabe]

Just now, Gehirnspaghetti said:

I thought to distincly remember myself getting mag procced in eidolon hunts even with 2 of these equipped but i might be wrong. I'll jump into game and try to check it

I have always just ignored the mag proc in Eidolons once I've equipped it, but perhaps I've just always been lucky, too. 

[xXMadneXDXx]

Le 28/02/2020 à 11:21, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

Arcane Guardian
On Rank 5: On Damaged:
15% chance for +600 Armor for 30s

Why just 600, You know survivability is key for weak rotten potato warframes like banshee or loki to pick some randomly. The difference within 600 armor and 1200 (double stacked) in damage reduction ways is really noticeable.

For comparison:

+600 armor means = 600/600+300=0.66 damage reduction. Taking a third of incoming damage

+1200 armor means= 1200/1200+300=0.80 damage reduction. Taking a fifth of incoming damage

HUGE DIFFERENCE, if you need to nerf it at least put a number right in the middle.

Proposal: 

+900 armor means = 900/900+300=0.75 damage reduction. Taking a fourth of incoming damage.

 

Or just leave it at 1200 like it would double stack because... to be honest it isnt broken in any way shape of form it is just flat survivability.

[Zilotz]

9 minutes ago, Gehirnspaghetti said:

I just want to prevent unintentional buffs here since we all know the one thing tenno hate more than nerfs of their favourite loadouts is when the reason stated is "we intended it that way in the first place".

Hahaha!

So true!

Especially when after some YEARS they tell 'It was not intended'...

Like someone will believe that for years game is working wrong and they care only when they want to do massive changes.

Also from my experience they have own priorities that do not look logical for a player like me:
 

Spoiler

 

0) Any way that can benefit a player a lot(killing enemies much faster/permanent invis and on).

1) Smaller bugs that are benefiting nobody(like some flickers/headless frames/colors)

2) Heavy gambreaking bugs that happen and were reported by partners.

3) Heavy gamebreaking bugs reported repeatedly ion forums.

4) Matchmaking bugs

5) Heavy bugs(like unkillable enemies) if reported many times

6) Common bugs

7) Bugs that benefit enemy

8.) Non-bug things like nerfs, more nerfs, riven nerfs, melee nerfs, gun nerfs, frame nerfs and on.

9) Minimal buffs/reworks

10) Real reworks/releasing more weapons and frames.

11) Crazy things in reworks like Focus rework/Melee rework/Upcoming changes which for sure include big nerfs to players.You earned this power and now we take it away, enjoy your stay!

 

The second hate reason would be 'It's a buff!' while it is a complete nerf.

[Gehirnspaghetti]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb Ham_Grenabe:

I have always just ignored the mag proc in Eidolons once I've equipped it, but perhaps I've just always been lucky, too. 

Well 120 selfdamage shots from my Prisma Angstrum (modded with frostbite, jolt, sure shot and barrel diffusion) later I'm now confident that it does work additively and i mesremembered (The Status isn't quite 100% and it's about 50/50 between magnetic and blast but 0.96^120≈0,007). Thank you for correcting me, I'll annotate the original post.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Gehirnspaghetti

[(NSW)Slyn_Vulpes]

Le 28/02/2020 à 17:21, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

"stats show truly the only people that saw Rising Tide to completion were our veterans"

Challenge accepted. Know that all I miss are 10 neurodes and 1,774,947 credits, that I've built on my own my dry docks...

And I've been a Tenno only for a few month.

[(XBOX)SiwawerPower]

DE make arcane like aura mods at level 5 so the effect will be shared to entire team.

[1MasterChief]

when we expect updated to drop ?

[Svenarx]

il y a 6 minutes, (XB1)VintarDragon16 a dit :

DE make arcane like aura mods at level 5 so the effect will be shared to entire team.

Arcane energize and pulse are already share on a small area.... But it ll be nerfed. Maybe they want to increase the pulse area, but the cooldown and duration give a bitter taste.... This cooldown will give the game less dynamic, less fun...