2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh.

[(PSN)KinslayersDawn]

I am totally on board with most of these things (or at least think they will all probably balance out into overall gameplay improvement).

 

I have one request though: PLEASE, PLEASE!  If we have our arcanes fully ranked (currently rank 3), please fully rank them up in line with the update (to rank 5). Otherwise we are effectively looking at a downgrade on every single one of our arcanes, and extra farming etc. for something that was already fully ranked.

 

Thank you!

[Kierlak]

10 hours ago, ud4yk said:

And WORK ON CONCLAVE WHICH WE WANT!

No one that wants resources wasted on conclave should be listened to regarding anything. They are clearly delusional.

[master_of_destiny]

3 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Can we stop carictarizing people who want self damage because of how chroma works insultingly? As of right now chroma needs the help because to be blunt? My opinion is he needs a full rework not 'oh we had hsi formula set wrong even though he's been like this for years.'

As for people growling about self damage being added: Do you think you're going to win the argument by going 'everyone who wanted self damage remvoed are super lame babby? What do you genuinely literally honestly think will happen? People bow down screaming YES YOU ARE RIGHT I AM A SCUMBG! TEACH ME YOUR WAYS O MIGHTY RIGHT ONE OF RIGHTY RIGHTNESS!

 

This kills me.  Everyone is so worried about the dragon...but the problem is why the dragon is so vital to minimize the painful bits of the grind.

 

Chroma's ability to do huge amounts of damage to a single target is pretty much built only for eidolons.  The people who are complaining most vehemently are worried about Chroma being useless, and aren't articulating that this is because he functionally has one primary usage case which allows him to shine.  To make this simple, there's not a lot of content designed to make use of what Chroma delivers, what he delivers is not suddenly broken.

You can make the argument that self damage is a skill check.  The Bramma, Lenz, Acceltra, and Ogris are all pretty good but require skill not to kill yourself.  The problem is skill and luck are needed.  There's nothing like charging up an attack and having a flame blade rush you and eat the explosive at point blank because they have no long animation to indicate their teleport.  It almost seems like the flame blade series of enemies is free of the animations which our frames are locked into, but instead of fixing that inconsistency we're addressing self damage in a way beyond the current band-aide mods.

I guess in short it isn't the death of Chroma.  It is making it much more difficult to pull huge single target damage values, but the only content at this time which uses this is either the Orb Mothers (functionally dead because the rewards are one and done) or the Eidolons (still around because of trash drop rates).

 

If I were to suggest bigger issues, my list of the five frames which are dead is as follows:

Vauban - Still CC only, with stats which make him very tough to be survivable without very specific tactics.

Zephyr - 2 exists only to make 4 not mediocre, the cast time for turbulence makes it a pain, the lack of armor means current stats are underwhelming given power 1 is only mobility.  I say this despite maining her.

Grendel - The grind to get him sucks, and after all of it you're stuck with a frame whose power economy makes an interesting move set unusable.

Hydroid - For being the pirate in a space ninja game my kit has largely been superseded by others, so there's no reason to play me.

Harrow - What the heck am I?  My powers seem to be support based, but only if I do the killing.  Am I supposed to be a solo frame, because the grind to get my parts is 100% teamwork required.

 

Chroma, personally, ranks in around 10.  The Eidolon and Orb Mothers do enough damage through AoE and mobs that you won't have to self inflict it, and base stats make him viable enough everywhere else to be an acceptable, if not ideal, choice.  Not being able to self activate bonuses doesn't change that, it makes them impossible to prime and therefore require more instant micro-management.  In short, less fun and reliable.

 

Side note, who thinks that the Scarlet Spear event is going to be a race to kill the final Orb Mother as a sentient?  Squad link will be exclusively with Orb Vallis teams, and the grineer veil missions in railjack will be a complete W, X, Y, and rerun Z multiple times (with sentient incursions against the grineer) to unlock the fight with the final orb.  This is going to be the case so DE can stabilize the link with instanced Fortuna groups, so if there is an influx of players we don't have another event centered around entirely unstable grouping.  Little Duck is the quest giver because there'll be some new token toroid, and you're going to primarily be rewarded with sentient killing tech and the arcanes as farmable resources through accumulation of the new toroids.  I swear, if this is what we've waited more than a year to get it'll be the rotten cherry atop the Lich-Railjack-Arcane waste matter sunday.  

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

So far I really am looking forward to the changes, however I see one thing missing...a fix to the Sephfan zaws not being able to properly use Nikana skins.

[Douhglaus]

All of these changes and updates are really nice but, can there be a graphics rework for lower end pc's? I havent been able to enjoy Eidelon or Vallis that much as my pc cant handle it. I know there is a minimum spec requirement but, could you consider?

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

The Arcane rework is complete nonsense.  The only reason DE has concocted such a ludicrous scenario of requiring 20 Arcanes to obtain Max Rank is to fullfill the "numbers" game for the corporate office, by having the player-base grind yet again and thus allowing them to keep their jobs.  Here's a better scenario, create better content that you can actually play without crashing your game-play, and watch the "numbers" exceed your corporate expectations!  It is a travesty of intelligence to think that DE could pawn off this Arcane Rework as some sort of positive and beneficial act of omnipotence on their part!  DE could have just as easily just modified the existing Arcane values to mimic the desired outcome of not allowing 2 of the same Arcanes per build. After 2000 plus Eidelon hunts to obtain my collection of Rank 3 Arcanes, I was happy that my hard work was finished. I have NO problems with cool downs of Arcanes nor the new limitation, if it makes the game more equitable! All of your desired results can be achieved without requiring yet another grind to a game that is becoming more tedious with each update.

Don't even get me started on your absurd notion of having no self damage! The ONLY reason why the Bramma isn't abused is the fact you can kill yourself! The Bramma is an obnoxious tool of destruction and mayhem that should not have been introduced in the first place to a game that is bloated with weapons of mass destruction already! In the future, maybe design weapons with less mechanics to elicit epileptic seizures and bleeding from ones ears!

Chroma will have to adapt to the new mechanics of the game, but I have no doubt he will still be viable in Eidelon Hunts or Profit Taker missions, despite the setback.  I have enjoyed the New Sentient Ship environment and do look forward to the upcoming Sentient content, assuming I can actually complete a new mission with minimal bugs!

Now go do the right thing DE!

[xZaraki_KenPachix]

Boring boring boring neeed new update !!

[Rurik-Vaeringjar]

On 2020-02-28 at 11:21 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Damage from Warframe Abilities will ignore the enemy Shield Gate (i.e if an instance of Damage from an ability is greater than the Shield value, it will go into health as well). 

I'd like to propose that void damage also bypass shield gating. Currently void damage doesn't.. well.. do anything particularly special and it's kind of frustrating. It doesn't have that otherworldly feel to the way the damage type works. While on that topic, I do wonder why void damage respects Limbo's Rift at all as I always got the impression that it should interact in the same way the damage from warframe powers work. Also, currently the Tenno always counts as being "in normal space" regardless of whether or not they're standing in an active Cataclysm effect. The Tenno, for example, is incapable of harming or otherwise affecting anything that is "in the rift" and it comes off feeling very strange at best. I always had the impression that the Tenno should be stronger within the Rift (standing in a Cataclysm bubble, since Banish won't target a Tenno), given.. spoilers.

Going beyond all that for a moment, I do wish that void damage's status effect would be reworked at some point to fall more in line with how the void is actually portrayed within the game. Given the void's effect on the minds of those who interact with it for too long, an idea that immediately comes to mind are madness procs, functioning as a kind of sanity damage effect where each madness proc causes the enemy (specifically biological enemies) to act increasingly more erratic until it enough madness accrues for the enemy to just kills itself. I'm sure there is a more interesting way to have void status affect sentients as well. I personally, given what lore I've run into, imagine it having some kind of corrupting influence on the sentient. For example, a percentage of the sentient's health could become corrupted for each proc (perhaps 50% of current uncorrupted health per proc), with corrupted health no longer benefiting from sentient immunities. 

Now, I fully admit that I'm only basing this on my current understand of what effect the void seems to have on things in the warframe universe. It is largely an incomplete understanding of the void, if only due to the mysterious nature of how it is portrayed within universe. As such, I fully admit that the proposed changes may run entirely counter to how the void actually works in universe.

 

[Graavarg]

A few observations on 40 pages of comments:

DE is quite clear about wanting to broaden the usage of the huge diversity already available in the game. Several of the upcoming mainline changes (and other recently implemented changes) are thus about increasing "diversity", not about "buffing" and/or "nerfing". Buffs/nerfs are (in this case) just the tools used to achieve the goal (of a more diverse use of stuff). A lot of comments misses the mark (totally) by only focusing on proposed buffs and nerfs without even touching on the underlying situation/problem of "non-diversity". Of course, anyone can comment the way they like, and expressing your feelings is (probably) also important. I also have no idea of knowing how DE handles the comment "flood". But generally (IRL) speaking, if you want your comments to have any impact you should adress the designated problem. Which in this case is "lack of diversity".

The new rank 5 arcanes have (generally) 150% "arcane power" compared to the current rank 3. Thus the ability to equip 2 x R5 arcanes is an overall arcane buff, since 2 x 150% = 300% (currently we can equip 2 x  R3 = 200%). That we won't be able to double up on a single arcane power has a 25% nerfing effect on that single power, but removing the "doubling effect" is logically another thing altogether. If we are discussing the "power of arcanes" (overall), the real question is whether 150% of this + 150% of that together will be more (or less) powerful  than the current 200% of only this. In my humble opinion that is not only the interesting question, it is a very interesting possibility soon opening up.

Quite a number of comments underline the main two current uses of arcanes (and doubling them): increasing already strong abilities (god-building) and creating a generic warframe build for a certain "way" of playing all warframes (adding armor/health/energy etc. to warframes that have "weak" inherent values). In both cases the end effect is a decrease in diversity, players having access to all or most warframes will still mostly only use their god-builds, while players wanting to turn all warframes into the same one do so in order to be able to play mostly the same way (regardless of warframe). Though some claim that DE "don't listen to players" I get the distinct impression that DE would happily and thankfully listen to intelligent and functional player suggestions that actually would aim to increase diversity and decrease the reliance on a few warframes, arcanes, weapons and/or playstyles. And there are some suggestions along these lines, but the majority directly or indirectly says they want to keep the game at the current "low diversity" level (or even decrease the diversity further). Such suggestions seems to me to logically be "part of disease", not "part of the cure".

Edited March 3, 2020 by Graavarg

[Cryingsin21]

DE Give me a valid explanation as to why titania cannot have a companion when she's in her 4? I love using titania but I would never ever use her in any farming area or end game mission cuz I can't use my smeeta's charm or my other companions buffs. The sentinel I might understand but the animal base companion can just continue wandering and attack like what they usually do normally 

[AXCrusnik]

On 2020-02-29 at 5:49 AM, GhostLacuna said:

 

- Added the ability to Distill assembled Arcanes back into multiple unranked ones.

Good work. Only 2 years late this time DE. Took you ~4 to add teammate energy bars into the UI so Trin can properly do part of her job.

1 hour ago, Cryingsin21 said:

DE Give me a valid explanation as to why titania cannot have a companion when she's in her 4? I love using titania but I would never ever use her in any farming area or end game mission cuz I can't use my smeeta's charm or my other companions buffs. The sentinel I might understand but the animal base companion can just continue wandering and attack like what they usually do normally 

Not a dev so this is just speculation... but my guess is it's because they don't have a system for bringing companions into Archwing, and much like the teammate energy bars back in the day, and ability to "distill" assembled arcanes... it's not a priority to them.

On 2020-02-28 at 8:21 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

The Status Chance Mods we released many years ago have not been considered worthwhile - there are simply better options within the Status Mod builds

Lets be real here... There were simply better options literally everywhere. Pretty much any mod is better than wasting a slot on FIFTEEEN percent status chance alone (seriously... this is ~half the value of an unranked dual stat mod. This isn't even close to a choice).

Edited March 3, 2020 by AXCrusnik

[DebrisFlow]

The prospect of having to farm other 11 arcanes for each type in order to counter the nerfs, after having spent years farming the first 10, is simply disheartening.

Edited March 3, 2020 by DebrisFlow

[staranow]

2 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

This kills me.  Everyone is so worried about the dragon...but the problem is why the dragon is so vital to minimize the painful bits of the grind.

 

Chroma's ability to do huge amounts of damage to a single target is pretty much built only for eidolons.  The people who are complaining most vehemently are worried about Chroma being useless, and aren't articulating that this is because he functionally has one primary usage case which allows him to shine.  To make this simple, there's not a lot of content designed to make use of what Chroma delivers, what he delivers is not suddenly broken.

You can make the argument that self damage is a skill check.  The Bramma, Lenz, Acceltra, and Ogris are all pretty good but require skill not to kill yourself.  The problem is skill and luck are needed.  There's nothing like charging up an attack and having a flame blade rush you and eat the explosive at point blank because they have no long animation to indicate their teleport.  It almost seems like the flame blade series of enemies is free of the animations which our frames are locked into, but instead of fixing that inconsistency we're addressing self damage in a way beyond the current band-aide mods.

I guess in short it isn't the death of Chroma.  It is making it much more difficult to pull huge single target damage values, but the only content at this time which uses this is either the Orb Mothers (functionally dead because the rewards are one and done) or the Eidolons (still around because of trash drop rates).

 

If I were to suggest bigger issues, my list of the five frames which are dead is as follows:

Vauban - Still CC only, with stats which make him very tough to be survivable without very specific tactics.

Zephyr - 2 exists only to make 4 not mediocre, the cast time for turbulence makes it a pain, the lack of armor means current stats are underwhelming given power 1 is only mobility.  I say this despite maining her.

Grendel - The grind to get him sucks, and after all of it you're stuck with a frame whose power economy makes an interesting move set unusable.

Hydroid - For being the pirate in a space ninja game my kit has largely been superseded by others, so there's no reason to play me.

Harrow - What the heck am I?  My powers seem to be support based, but only if I do the killing.  Am I supposed to be a solo frame, because the grind to get my parts is 100% teamwork required.

 

Chroma, personally, ranks in around 10.  The Eidolon and Orb Mothers do enough damage through AoE and mobs that you won't have to self inflict it, and base stats make him viable enough everywhere else to be an acceptable, if not ideal, choice.  Not being able to self activate bonuses doesn't change that, it makes them impossible to prime and therefore require more instant micro-management.  In short, less fun and reliable.

 

Side note, who thinks that the Scarlet Spear event is going to be a race to kill the final Orb Mother as a sentient?  Squad link will be exclusively with Orb Vallis teams, and the grineer veil missions in railjack will be a complete W, X, Y, and rerun Z multiple times (with sentient incursions against the grineer) to unlock the fight with the final orb.  This is going to be the case so DE can stabilize the link with instanced Fortuna groups, so if there is an influx of players we don't have another event centered around entirely unstable grouping.  Little Duck is the quest giver because there'll be some new token toroid, and you're going to primarily be rewarded with sentient killing tech and the arcanes as farmable resources through accumulation of the new toroids.  I swear, if this is what we've waited more than a year to get it'll be the rotten cherry atop the Lich-Railjack-Arcane waste matter sunday.  

You forgot two other frames that really need a rework. Chroma and Nyx.

Nyx is in a real bad spot and Chroma has needed a rework for a while now. Removing self damage just makes it more obvious that he needs a rework.

Agree with your other points though.

[SKLW]

Баг форума. Не написать нормально, постоянно переносит в начало строки.

Edited March 3, 2020 by SKLW
Баг, при написании со смартфона, постоянно автоматически переносит курсор в начало строки

[SKLW]

Уберите миграцию хоста!

Edited March 3, 2020 by SKLW

[(PSN)WorldSuxx]

Since DE is revisiting some "low tier" rewards, could you also talk about Sortie rewards?
There's been a time, where Sortie rewards, similar to the low level mission rewards, were actually helpful. But the longer I play, the Sortie get less and less attractive... most of the time, the reward (chance) is not even worth the time. It's not hard, it's just time consuming... at least 15 minutes (even with three very fast missions, this is the realistic minimum with loading screens, loadout switch, etc.) for ONE reward. Comparing the bronze or silver rewards to other game modes, this is just not worth it. 

I can think of 2 possible was to go to make it more worth it: 

1.  Let us have the regular rotation rewards within the missions. For example: we have to do 10 min survival or 10 waves defense - let us have two rotation rewards - I mean, it's the Sortie, some what the introduction of end game activities and we don't get any mission rewards? Why? 
2.  Let us choose from the rewards of a team - similar to how the relics work. We are 4 players in a squad, everybody gets an individual reward and we can chose, what we want. This would be great. We can chose Kuva over Endo, or even a sculpture over Endo, because we might even be able to sell it. Plus it would drastically increase the chance for a GOOD reward (at least from an "endgame" perspective). 

What do others think about the Sortie reward? I know many players who don't even bother with Sortie anymore...

[LiquidRay]

On 2020-02-28 at 5:21 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Decreased the chances of Kuva Lich controlled sectors forcing an Exterminate situation to allow for more gamemode chances. 

Oh no, for the love of god... XD

Murmur farming is already long and tedious as it is I really don't need to be forced to go through some tedious missions like Interception and certain Sabotage... Especially considering the amount of people doing this farm solo, removing the converted Exterminate is a feels bad moment.

 

On a separate note. In-mission UI rework when?

 

I'm really excited about everything else and really looking forward to it. Thanks for your effort to keep the game fresh ♥

[Graavarg]

9 hours ago, Gamefreak106 said:

But this alone is not enough to cause an upset - they must also be inherently useful.

...

... Energize and Grace, if acquired, is quite preferred in the builds I've seen.

... identifying and nerfing popular items, albeit in an admittedly mindless fashion.  That said, I highly doubt the decision to nerf those arcanes came out of nowhere.

...

But I play, not really for skill, but for fun and making silly, creative builds.  And I like frames that lend themselves to alternative options (in this case, messing with evasion mods) so I can mod viably for different situations.  I also don't like frames that lock you into mindless meta builds using fire and forget abilities.

...

And despite the fact that I rely on Energize to keep me in fairy form indefinitely, I'm excited to see how these nerfs impact my own meta.  I will certainly need to modify my builds, for sure, and that ought to be fun for me.

Also, I very much agree with you about the precedent that DE set with mindless nerfs.

Sorry for chopping up your post, but you make some good points and I wanted to comment explicitly.

First of all, all arcanes are inherently useful. Each and every one of them, at any rank. This is the logical conclusion stemming from the fact that an arcane adds something that you would otherwise not have. The difference in usefulness between arcanes and when applied to different warframes and builds is entirely another matter.

Yes, Energize and Grace are the most wanted. Even if you account for the drop rates and having to capture a Hydrolyst, this can also easily be deduced from their plat value. There are other META-arcanes, but Energize and Grace rule the pack. If the problem is the lack of diversity in the usage of arcanes (or overall in Warframe, considering the huge amount of stuff) it would be logical (if you want to increase diversity) to reduce the attractiveness of these two the most.

I totally disagree with the notion that "DE mindlessly nerf things". I think that is about as stupid a comment as anyone can make. DE doesn't get everything right all the time, but I am quite sure that a lot of "mind" is put to these matters. And I think you agree with that conclusion (even though you seem to first support the notion of "mindlessly" building and supporting one of the most complicated games on the planet).

Don't sell "silly" short, silly builds and squads are a huge source of fun in the game 🙂. What is amazing (about Warframe as a game) is that many of them actually work (and work well). Also don't sell "creative" short by classifying it as silly, you could just as well call the META-crowd "silly" for missing out on 99% of the game. Analyzing the game and it's components for META purposes is (very) creative, but copying META-builds from Youtube is the anti-thesis of "creative".

I have 2X all arcanes and use double sets on many warframes/builds. After mulling the upcoming changes for a few days I am not even sure if they actually are "nerfs", gameplay-wise. It might very well be that the 25% reduction of "double arcane power" is compensated by the addition of another 150% arcane. Most important though is that I am also exited by the prospect of testing & figuring this out. Triggering interest beats any little nerf, hands down.

I very much disagree with the notion of "DE mindlessly nerfing" stuff (as per above). Seems like a totally mindless comment to me. 😉 🙂 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Graavarg

[MadMattPrime]

I have a question with regards to shield gating and I'm not sure whether its been answered.

According to the dev stream warframes shields are going to be getting a 25% damage reduction.

 

1) Will Adaptation work with overshields just like hildryn? Other warframes have poo poo shields so it was bearly noticeable.

2)What about warframes such as Inaros and Nidus and to an extent Grendel who haves 75 shields that might as well be non-existent? These frames rely heavily on heavy and building them for shields would just be for the memes. Will these frames get some sort of buff or something special? 

 

With regards to armor scaling, as an endurance run player, stopping or slowing down armor at level 75 going to make the game way to easy. The sweet spot is level 200.

[SpringRocker]

5 hours ago, Kierlak said:

No one that wants resources wasted on conclave should be listened to regarding anything. They are clearly delusional.

You sure about that?

We are legion.

[Circle_of_Psi]

Will this get addressed? 

[(XBOX)GuyFarting]

Wait, let me get this straight. Shotguns are getting a 35% buff to status and status no goes over 100%. That seems awesome. 

[Tellingohn]

An addition to making shields viable would to add a stat for shield damage mitigation (shield density?) or to give shields 25-50% of the armours damage mitigation.

The flat 25% damage reduction sounds good, untill you run the numbers against how hard high level mobs hit and how much max shield capacity you can get on a frame.

[(PSN)Imtrex521]

On 2020-02-28 at 2:18 PM, Phillip said:

In addition to the other blueprints, can we get a 100x cipher blueprint?

I agree. Would you rather I sit in the foundry 20 minutes a day or play missions or maybe in the Market?

[(XBOX)TheDragonPaws]

I think the arcane changes can be neat, but some people are over reacting to the changes like its the end of the world. I think DE is going to put the changes out for arcanes and then work their way up to a more refined system with player feedback because to be honest the power creep is real. These changes are not the end all be all.

The number one complaint of vets besides feed us more content was that warframe is way too easy. This won't make it too hard, but is a nice change of pace. Like people are now complaining that this is the end of the warframe, but you can still make amazing builds with out relying on double stack arcanes. I personally think the meta gaming really draws the fun out of the game anyway and should be mixed up a bit. Like some veterans gets so salty that X released weapon got nerfed and then on the other hand says warframe too easy. I personally just like to pick a random weapon and see what I can make of it.

The only complaint with arcanes I have is with Arcane Precision personally. Because now their isn't a damage arcane for pistols related to ammo and Titania uses arch-wing pistols so she is unable to get that damage buff. This can be balanced out with the enemy rework for Titania, but I think it was an unintentional nerf  and as of late DE is really trying to make her viable. (Edit: Never mind I misread) The delay on Arcane Energy and Guardian is fine, but I think the community would stop whining if there were more ways to get energy through mods or something. Like sharp shooter gives you energy on headshots, so maybe some skilled based mod that you could put on a warframe or weapon that doesn't rely attacks that can only be done on mob kills. This will make edilon fights and boss fights feel interesting without being feed energy through arcanes, but the mods should be a low enough return that the arcanes aren't useless. As for Guardian, there are many ways to not die with frames, but maybe you could do a skilled based mods as well for that.

The status update seems nice, but I think they should take a look at status immune bosses. I know you don't want players to insta kill them, but status is half of the games damage mechanics and immunity seems a little cheap. Overall, the update will probably complained about up and down the wall and fine tuned into a more natural balance. I think its a great base to make warframe more fun as long as the Devs are still listening diligently. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by (XB1)TheDragonPaws