Now the self damage is removed...

[dota_Icarus]

i herewith claim the kuva bramma to be the new strongest primary weapon, with damage (almost) as high as a sniper and aoe of ignis&catchmoon... 

I don`t like nerfs to weapons too, but please nerf the kuva bramma with the same patch. Don`t want to experience the catchmoon drama once more

[Littlelosttank]

I'd rather keep self damage to keep the damage out put, as a fan of explosive weapons actually able to harm higher level stuff effectively. I'm perfectly fine with needing more then 2 brain cells to use such weapons effectively. Its not hard to learn how to maneuver to avoid blasting your self. Talking as someone where shooters are not his strongest gaming zone. 

[TheGrimCorsair]

Just now, Littlelosttank said:

I'd rather keep self damage to keep the damage out put, as a fan of explosive weapons actually able to harm higher level stuff effectively. I'm perfectly fine with needing more then 2 brain cells to use such weapons effectively. Its not hard to learn how to maneuver to avoid blasting your self. Talking as someone where shooters are not his strongest gaming zone. 

While I'm gonna miss the blow yourself aspect of it, depending how accuracy the accuracy changes and enemy damage changes workout, the self-stun may very well be just as deadly.

[Littlelosttank]

17 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

While I'm gonna miss the blow yourself aspect of it, depending how accuracy the accuracy changes and enemy damage changes workout, the self-stun may very well be just as deadly.

As long as the effectiveness against high level enemy's is not nerfed.... suppose I'll be fine with it then. 

[TheGrimCorsair]

11 minutes ago, Littlelosttank said:

As long as the effectiveness against high level enemy's is not nerfed.... suppose I'll be fine with it then. 

I mean, they did say the explosions will have their damage reduce over their blast radius but most launchers are picking up some 20% more damage in exchange and a small bit more blast radius.

In conjunction with the changes to armor scaling it sounds like, if anything, launcher should be quite a bit better than they are, and the top tier stuff they're already pretty gonzo powerful.

[Divinehero]

wait what's this about no self damage?

[Umbra_2001]

1 minute ago, Divinehero said:

wait what's this about no self damage?

It Is being removed

[Divinehero]

when?

[brasteir]

2 hours ago, dota_Icarus said:

i herewith claim the kuva bramma to be the new strongest primary weapon, with damage (almost) as high as a sniper and aoe of ignis&catchmoon... 

I don`t like nerfs to weapons too, but please nerf the kuva bramma with the same patch. Don`t want to experience the catchmoon drama once more

it just needs a draw time similar to lenz, for the amount of power it puts out it's way too quick

[TheLexiConArtist]

Gonna just plant this seed everywhere I can find it relevant in the hopes DE sees it and recovers their collective testi common sense.

3 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

DO NOT REMOVE SELF DAMAGE. It CAN and SHOULD exist.

Remember the Tonkor.

 

INCREASED REWARD comes with balancing DRAWBACKS. Personal risk is a legitimate and even enjoyable drawback if you care to master it.

Please. Don't let the whiners make you cave and steal away niche fun from the players who actually liked it and didn't mind putting themselves on their back from time to time because it was their own fault, and they accepted that.

Alternatives exist. Nobody is forced to use self-damage weaponry. Not all weaponry has to work in every situation. 

 

Let us wield a REAL risk if we choose to do so. If you're going to address the self-damage, do it by changing the formula, not the mechanics.

[dota_Icarus]

3小时前 , Littlelosttank 说:

I'd rather keep self damage to keep the damage out put, as a fan of explosive weapons actually able to harm higher level stuff effectively. I'm perfectly fine with needing more then 2 brain cells to use such weapons effectively. Its not hard to learn how to maneuver to avoid blasting your self. Talking as someone where shooters are not his strongest gaming zone. 

 

3小时前 , TheGrimCorsair 说:

While I'm gonna miss the blow yourself aspect of it, depending how accuracy the accuracy changes and enemy damage changes workout, the self-stun may very well be just as deadly.

Totally agree with you guys, I also think it is a draw back explosive weapon should back.

But I think we are the minority this time. And the biggest argument for the other side could be the kavat, sentinel, teammate (whatever) blocking you and kill you. And I honestly dunno how should I counter this argument, pls help guys

[DrivaMain]

Sorry minority, DE only follows the majority now. This is what the people wants. You have to suck it up and move on. Besides I can see self stagger be a death wish in high level because it gives enemies a time frame to hit you.

[dota_Icarus]

1分钟前 , DrivaMain 说:

Sorry minority, DE only follows the majority now. This is what the people wants. You have to suck it up and move on. Besides I can see self stagger be a death wish in high level because it gives enemies a time frame to hit you.

We have to move on ofc. The question is, do you think kuva bramma should be nerfed within the same patch though? And if yes, how? 

[DrivaMain]

11 minutes ago, dota_Icarus said:

The question is, do you think kuva bramma should be nerfed within the same patch though? And if yes, how? 

DE already intend to nerf it by adding a fall off damage to the blast radius where the center deals full damage and the damage diminishes by range from the explosion center. This apply to all self damage weaponn too.

[dota_Icarus]

and you would rather take the aoe, and potentially another dmg nerf in exchange for the self damage removal? just curios

[DrivaMain]

2 minutes ago, dota_Icarus said:

and you would rather take the aoe, and potentially another dmg nerf in exchange for the self damage removal? just curios

I don’t think they will nerf the bramma because it’s already got a nerf in a form of fall off in the blast radius. But if they do, I am fine with it.

[CopperBezel]

The Bramma and Lenz were the only weapons where the self-damage mechanics made any sense. I've been playing with the Bramma, and I kinda love it in its present form. But self-damage is a horribly inconsistent mechanic that otherwise only created headaches and for the most part made a few mediocre weapons punishing to use, so this is honestly still an okay trade.

[GPrime96]

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

DE already intend to nerf it by adding a fall off damage to the blast radius where the center deals full damage and the damage diminishes by range from the explosion center. This apply to all self damage weaponn too.

I wonder how that would effect Bramma because, you know, it shoots Bombs after a Bomb.

[CopperBezel]

Two possibilities. One is that the main explosion that dealt self-damage will be a little less devastating thanks to a tapered falloff over a slightly larger range, but the grenades will be unaffected and the weapon will probably feel the same as it does now. The other is that the whole set will get a falloff over a slightly larger radius from each explosion, and there will be less overlap and more of a funky random shape to how the damage lays out in a given shot.

[Rankii]

On 2020-02-28 at 1:40 PM, dota_Icarus said:

i herewith claim the kuva bramma to be the new strongest primary weapon, with damage (almost) as high as a sniper and aoe of ignis&catchmoon... 

I don`t like nerfs to weapons too, but please nerf the kuva bramma with the same patch. Don`t want to experience the catchmoon drama once more

Yeah for all of a couple of weeks. Then it gets nerfed because now it just S#&$s out damage with no drawback.

Good job, you useful idiots, you killed off an entire class of weapons because you couldn't take two seconds to aim.

[Sylonus]

1 hour ago, Rankii said:

Yeah for all of a couple of weeks. Then it gets nerfed because now it just S#&$s out damage with no drawback.

Good job, you useful idiots, you killed off an entire class of weapons because you couldn't take two seconds to aim.

DE wouldn't be making this change if that entire class of weapons wasn't pretty dead as is, they have the stats I'm sure, why do you think this is happening?
This is an attempt to revitalize the weapon class. My guess was the Bramma was the last ditch effort to see "How good can we make self damaging weapons and them still not be used?" I suspect it's the only one that sees much use of all, and it wasn't high enough to convince them not to make the change, it's the only one that I expect to nerfed after the change, all the others, I think will start seeing more play again, but not crazy amounts.

[TheLexiConArtist]

5 minutes ago, Sylonus said:

DE wouldn't be making this change if that entire class of weapons wasn't pretty dead as is, they have the stats I'm sure, why do you think this is happening?
This is an attempt to revitalize the weapon class. My guess was the Bramma was the last ditch effort to see "How good can we make self damaging weapons and them still not be used?" I suspect it's the only one that sees much use of all, and it wasn't high enough to convince them not to make the change, it's the only one that I expect to nerfed after the change, all the others, I think will start seeing more play again, but not crazy amounts.

There's a heavy enough barrier to entry and variance in the Kuva weapons that any of them would make a poor last-ditch decision metric. Besides, you know anything that clusters out is going to be even more challenging. If they wanted an absolute it'd be a super-buffed Ogris-like weapon (with an easier accessibility than the Kuvas).

It's just catering to a vocal minority and their associated bandwagon jumpers. Self-damage is avoidable. You can use a Kulstar in the radius of a Snow Globe without murdering yourself with every shot fired. It just takes.. you know.. mastery.

[Sylonus]

The best way to avoid self damage has historically been, just don't use that weapon type, there are plenty of other weapons that do just as much damage, even in AoE with 0 risk, so there was never a reason to use that type of weapon, until the Bramma, and even that's debatable.

Vocal minority? Where are you drawing these statistics from? Why do you believe that the majority favors self damage? Because I can tell you anecdotally, that couldn't seem to be further from the truth. And somehow I doubt you have any better statistics than I that you're privvy to. And the only ones who do (DE, with their usage statistics) well, we know where they decided to fall.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 minute ago, Sylonus said:

The best way to avoid self damage has historically been, just don't use that weapon type, there are plenty of other weapons that do just as much damage, even in AoE with 0 risk, so there was never a reason to use that type of weapon, until the Bramma, and even that's debatable.

Vocal minority? Where are you drawing these statistics from? Why do you believe that the majority favors self damage? Because I can tell you anecdotally, that couldn't seem to be further from the truth. And somehow I doubt you have any better statistics than I that you're privvy to. And the only ones who do (DE, with their usage statistics) well, we know where they decided to fall.

Let me clarify: The minority that are actively greedy and self-entitled enough that they must have access to that <10% of weaponry options without the risk they dislike - at the cost of an entire gameplay niche - versus the combined majority of those who:

1. Actively dislike self damage but just use alternatives and are content
2. Are completely ambivalent to self-damage and might or might not randomly use them
3. Actually enjoy the thrill and gameplay niche of something that will drop you if you misuse it.

Category 3 is not the majority. Category 1 or 2 might be the absolute majority, definitely are when combined, and absolutely outweigh the greedy complainants when it's those 'remove or make functionally irrelevant' votes against the 'keep it (for all I care)' of all three categories.

 

The best way to avoid it IS to not use the weapons. Nobody's saying you have to 'git gud'. If you don't enjoy it, just use the rest, but you can 'git gud' if you want to and enjoy the process. Why can't that be maintained? It's not even impossible to fix the scaling problems, it just takes a formula for self-damage rather than it being a simple fixed proportion.

[Sylonus]

This is a pretty hilariously gross mischaracterization of the majority of posts I see on here, there's nothing actively greedy or self-entitled about wishing X/Y/Z weapon worked one way (without self damage) at the very least no moreso than the ones desiring they work the other way (with self damage), this forum is largely based on feedback, people are saying their opinion, on how they wish things to be, that's basically the whole point of being here, you're welcome to disagree and state your desires. But stating those who want things to work another way from how you want them to work are any more greedy or self-entitled is, downright laughable