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Let us break down Arcanes.


(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan
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With the coming arcane changes, being able to break down arcanes into their Rank 0 components would be very helpful since as far as I know you can't currently slot a ranked arcane into another ranked arcane to rank it up.

Also, I swear to christ if you nerf Arcane Energize it will be the absolute last straw in the "No Fun Allowed" mentality that I can take.  We have had so many nerfs this year already, we do not need this.  Buff the others, sure.  Buff them so much that it makes me want to take off Arcane Energize. But if you nerf it to make crappier arcanes viable you're going to bleed even more players than you already are.  Warframe powers and movement are the only thing that separate this game from being a generic third person shooter that no one would care about.  Screwing over end game energy economy is absolutely the wrong move.

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You can break down Arcane  into rank 0 components it literally tells you in the dev workshop post. Also we already have so many ways to regenerate energy so that even if they straight up remove Arcane Energize that would have little to no impact on your energy economy.

 

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14 minutes ago, Neinorange said:

You can break down Arcane  into rank 0 components it literally tells you in the dev workshop post. Also we already have so many ways to regenerate energy so that even if they straight up remove Arcane Energize that would have little to no impact on your energy economy.

 

Except that Arcane Energize is the only way for warframes with energy drain abilities to regen energy at sustainable rates, with the only exception being Hunter Adrenaline/Rage, and that only works on frame that have the health and DR to take health damage and still survive. Add to that the new shield gating (which reduces how often you can even proc those mods) and Arcane Energize becomes the only thing keeping those frames useful.

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vor 11 Minuten schrieb -AxHx-Vile:

Says everyone that doesn't own an Arcane Energize. It would absolutely impact your energy economy.

Will it impact energy econmy? yes slightly. Are there still way more effects than you would ever need to regenerate energy? yes

 

vor 11 Minuten schrieb -AoN-CanoLathra-:

Except that Arcane Energize is the only way for warframes with energy drain abilities to regen energy at sustainable rates, with the only exception being Hunter Adrenaline/Rage, and that only works on frame that have the health and DR to take health damage and still survive. Add to that the new shield gating (which reduces how often you can even proc those mods) and Arcane Energize becomes the only thing keeping those frames useful.

Name a frame then that needs energize to be "useful".

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If they remove Arcane Energize entirely it would result in a reduction in build diversity (though it may increase diversity in arcane use):

  • Zenurik increases in relative value.
  • Energy efficiency increases in relative value.
  • A large energy pool (flow or primed flow) decreases in relative value.

The end result would be all my caster frames having almost exactly the same build.

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1 minute ago, Neinorange said:

Will it impact energy econmy? yes slightly. Are there still way more effects than you would ever need to regenerate energy? yes

 

Name a frame then that needs energize to be "useful".

Ember, in her current form. Ivara, unless using 20 energy pads/mission sounds like fun to you. Nehza, if used as a caster/dd instead of a tank.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb -AoN-CanoLathra-:

Ember, in her current form. Ivara, unless using 20 energy pads/mission sounds like fun to you. Nehza, if used as a caster/dd instead of a tank.

Ember has no problems w energy as long as you actually manage your 2 well. You dont need to spam pads w ivara as long as you have some duration/ efficiency on your build. I mean the same goes w any other frame really as long as you slap on a streamline you won't have issues w energy and quite a few frames don't even need any efficiency to work perfectly fine.

 

vor 17 Minuten schrieb schilds:

If they remove Arcane Energize entirely it would result in a reduction in build diversity (though it may increase diversity in arcane use):

  • Zenurik increases in relative value.
  • Energy efficiency increases in relative value.
  • A large energy pool (flow or primed flow) decreases in relative value.

The end result would be all my caster frames having almost exactly the same build.

Imo would result in you having to put in more thought/ effort  into a build for a specific frame by having to take you energy pool and ways to regenerate said energy into account. As a result of that increasing build diversity not decreasing it.

Having a large energy pool would actually be more beneficial for frames w continuous energy drain since it increases the time you can spend with an energy draining ability active now that you might not be able too rely purely on one Arcane to keep your energy up.

Besides the fact that yes they are nerfing it, but we have no idea how hard and im am fairly certain that while the effect compared to having 2 rank 3 Arcane Energizes will definitely be quite a bit weaker it will still remain a very strong option to regenerate energy.

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3 minutes ago, Neinorange said:

Besides the fact that yes they are nerfing it, but we have no idea how hard and im am fairly certain that while the effect compared to having 2 rank 3 Arcane Energizes will definitely be quite a bit weaker it will still remain a very strong option to regenerate energy.

We know the new chance to proc is 60% (which is a nice buff) and that it will have a cooldown. They have not said how long (I am personally estimating 5 seconds), nor how much energy will be given (I am guessing the amount will be the same: 250)

This works great for normal use, as orbs don't drop very often, so a higher proc chance makes each orb more valuable, as long as they are spread out. But, with frames like Nezha and Ember, who get all their orbs within seconds and with a dearth in-between, this mean you will only get one proc where before you might have gotten 2-3. That is a major drop to their sustainability, especially since both of them, when used as casters and not as tanks, tend to be throwing out large amounts of energy in a burst (Nezha will use his spears, throw his ring as many times as he can while the spears are up, and then move to the next group of enemies. Ember does the same with casting her 3 and then her 4, which uses energy per enemy). In fact, any frame that can force energy orb drops will have to be completely rebuilt with the new changes, and some of them may no longer be competitive against other frames.

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We're going to have to wait to see exactly how they work. If you can only absorb one energy orb at a time, and there's a couple of seconds cooldown before you absorb another one, then we'll be making more efficient use of energy orbs than we do now, where you use them all up at once with the excess energy going nowhere.

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1 hour ago, -AxHx-Vile said:

Says everyone that doesn't own an Arcane Energize. It would absolutely impact your energy economy.

I've owned 2 Energize sets for 3 years. It really is hardly necessary with restores, Zenurik, the digging Kubrow with Fetch, Energy Generator, EV Trinity, Octavia's passive, Protea soon, and more I forget. Energize is good for low efficiency builds. You can mod a Warframe without requiring Energize and the luxury it brings can be surpassed with a bit of creativity. It would impact your energy economy for things like solo Saryn in ESO, and maybe some comfort/ease of use, but you will adapt just like the melee changes. You've just become accustomed to using it, just like people accustomed to having Catchmoon in their loadout, Synoid Simulor, and more.

Honestly the change to Energize is a nerf, but it doesn't look too bad. The bigger picture is overall better for the game. If we look at each individual change in this mainline, I am sure you can be negative and disgruntled.

Edited by Voltage
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I owned 2 R3 Arcane Energize. I can say in the live now version is somewhat broken. For reference, I can keep Revenant Danse Macabre up for a whole minute with 45% Efficiency (Danse Macabre has a whopping 38.75 Energy Drain per second with this build). The nerfs are somewhat justified
 

What I am worry about is how far they will take it. Will they banish the arcane to the realm of uselessness or will the nerf is fair and still make the arcane useful (like they did to Condition Overload).

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vor 23 Minuten schrieb -AoN-CanoLathra-:

We know the new chance to proc is 60% (which is a nice buff) and that it will have a cooldown. They have not said how long (I am personally estimating 5 seconds), nor how much energy will be given (I am guessing the amount will be the same: 250)

This works great for normal use, as orbs don't drop very often, so a higher proc chance makes each orb more valuable, as long as they are spread out. But, with frames like Nezha and Ember, who get all their orbs within seconds and with a dearth in-between, this mean you will only get one proc where before you might have gotten 2-3. That is a major drop to their sustainability, especially since both of them, when used as casters and not as tanks, tend to be throwing out large amounts of energy in a burst (Nezha will use his spears, throw his ring as many times as he can while the spears are up, and then move to the next group of enemies. Ember does the same with casting her 3 and then her 4, which uses energy per enemy). In fact, any frame that can force energy orb drops will have to be completely rebuilt with the new changes, and some of them may no longer be competitive against other frames.

Yes certain builds will have to be revisited but i would say that thats a good thing. Either way we will see how this change impacts the game.I mean honestly as long as you still restore energy during things like exalted blade w  energize it should change very little( apart form those specific builds you mentioned) and probably won't impact frames like valkyr at all.

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