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Arcane Guardian Should get an armor boost to compensate not having 2 equipt.


Joezone619
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I don't do arcanes atm, but I've never understood why people run things other than Guardian. It was always stealth OP. Now you can run it alongside a Grace, which was always the best way to use Grace, so that you heal while you tank. I genuinely don't understand why Trinity with 1215 armor was something no one seemed to have discovered. 

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1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

At max rank it’s 15% for 600 armor. That’s a lower value than a single R3 guardian.

But also buffed to 30s. So compared to a single current R3, you'll take slightly more damage initially but have potentially even less difficulty maintaining it, because the window to proc again is a bigger % boost than the chance is a % loss. (Which is to say, still always on.)

Edited by CopperBezel
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2 hours ago, DraekoSilver said:

i feel sorry for the people who only have one AG.

Without a second to fuse together, its going to be some trash tier S#&$ right there.

Yeah, and that's what I'm worried about, myself. I get a significant nerf on my Guardian and my Grace, then be told "It's OK. Just buy another 11 of each and you can... Still have less power, but sort-of break even." Honestly, screw Rank 5. Just rejigger Arcane values and leave them at their current ranks.

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2 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

But also buffed to 30s. So compared to a single current R3, you'll take slightly more damage initially but have potentially even less difficulty maintaining it, because the window to proc again is a bigger % boost than the chance is a % loss. (Which is to say, still always on.)

Oh wow 30 seconds, because it totally can’t be procced multiple times, resetting the counter. You know, because that’s how people already use it.

increasing the duration does literally nothing to justify the decrease in guardians armor buff.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
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I didn't mean to imply it did, just pointing out that if we're talking about the 15% instead of 20%, it's only fair to mention the 30s instead of 20s. These are pretty meaningless changes. The only change that matters is that you can only have one and it costs as much as two did.

Edit: Sorry for any confusion.

Edited by CopperBezel
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2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Oh wow 30 seconds, because it totally can’t be procced multiple times, resetting the counter. You know, because that’s how people already use it.

^^ 30 Secs vs. proccing the Armor buff during a large part of the Mission.

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2 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

I didn't mean to imply it did, just pointing out that if we're talking about the 15% instead of 20%, it's only fair to mention the 30s instead of 20s. These are pretty meaningless changes. The only change that matters is that you can only have one and it costs as much as two did.

Edit: Sorry for any confusion.

We’re getting a worse buff for a longer duration, for twice the required investment.

how is this supposed to convince me to equip things like arcane warmth? Because all it’s convincing me of is that steel fiber is going to be more mandatory that it was before.

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Eh, it's the same buff for twice the required investment. And I don't know how anyone's going to be convinced to equip Arcane Warmth, but there's like, Avenger or something.

I don't think this was the best way to go about nerfing arcanes, but I'm also not sure how many good options there were.

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9 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Yeah, and that's what I'm worried about, myself. I get a significant nerf on my Guardian and my Grace, then be told "It's OK. Just buy another 11 of each and you can... Still have less power, but sort-of break even." Honestly, screw Rank 5. Just rejigger Arcane values and leave them at their current ranks.

The devs have got to find another way to increase play sales after they removed repair drones.

It FEELS like this is the reason anyway. Either that or they have nothing to make the new RJ missions worthwhile, so nerf arcanes and then tells us to go and grind for them again.

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14 hours ago, IEtherI said:

I see no problem with only being able to run 1 type of arcane. Honestly guardian is just fine with the new change. I run guardian/energize and under vitality and adaptation i survive just fine.

Its fine if you already have two level 3s.

If you only use one, its going to be 7% proc chance for 300 armor for 15 secs at level 3. You will need 11 more AG to get back to the point you had before the update.

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3 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Why should there be any compensation for a justified nerf?

Because the nerf isn’t justified. What does nerfing guardian do for us? I’m not going to start using the useless arcanes because of the nerf. But that’s why DE is nerfing it, so clearly their intention has already failed before the nerf has even been implemented.

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15 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Just rejigger Arcane values and leave them at their current ranks.

I can support this, and I don't even bother farming Arcanes myself (for the obvious reason of it being a boring slog).

I would also assume that the current values they've shown are not 100% final so there is still time to change things and one of the values being worse at 5 than current 3 is likely a huge error...at least I hope it is.

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10 hours ago, kevoisvevo said:

people will just switch to arcane barrier for the 2nd slot due to shield gate lololololol

Possible. Or go with Grace + Guardian. It's what I've been doing since the start. Grace was always too expensive for me to try and get a duplicate, plus you get more EHP out of a combination of health, armour and healing than just extreme values of one of them. What concerns me, however, is that BECAUSE I don't have a whole second Grace to dissolve and merge with another one to reach Rank 5, that'll be a massive amount of expense I need to pay just to break even. I mean they SAY Arcanes at Rank 5 will be ~1.5 times more powerful than a single arcane, but that's relative to post-nerf values. It feels like I'm going to need to spend more money just to get back to roughly where I was with a single Guardian and a single Grace.

 

10 hours ago, Aldain said:

I can support this, and I don't even bother farming Arcanes myself (for the obvious reason of it being a boring slog). I would also assume that the current values they've shown are not 100% final so there is still time to change things and one of the values being worse at 5 than current 3 is likely a huge error...at least I hope it is.

It's pretty clear that DE want to nerf some of the overperforming Arcanes, and honestly... They should. Even if that means losing my AFK-immortal Inaros, I'm honestly fine with this. It is a video game. If they're going to go down this route, however, just buff our existing Rank 3 Arcanes and don't make us farm/buy additional ones JUST to get back to roughly where we were before the changes. This honestly feels tone-deaf on the level of Rush Repair Drones.

Edited by Steel_Rook
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12 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Because the nerf isn’t justified. What does nerfing guardian do for us? I’m not going to start using the useless arcanes because of the nerf. But that’s why DE is nerfing it, so clearly their intention has already failed before the nerf has even been implemented.

Then this is just like how you can't force a kid to brush their teeth or get enough sleep, I guess.  It improves their health and well-being and leads to longer and happier lives with fewer future medical issues, but if they're too spiteful and stubborn they just plain won't.

This entire mentality that all balance changes need to be "fair" is incredibly damaging.  It ignores all of the context of changes and acts as if it's impossible for mistakes to happen.  Energize was a mistake.  Guardian was a mistake.  These should never have been introduced in the first place, but they were.  Now they're trying to fix that mistake, but players act as though Nerfing is only acceptable if it's accompanied by an equivalent or stronger buff for absolutely no adequately supported reason.  Warframe has one of the most self-destructive communities I've ever interacted with.

Not to mention if balance changes should be "fair," then it's intensely hypocritical to not demand all explosive weapons be heavily nerfed with the removal of their greatest drawback.

Edited by Vox_Preliator
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Inaros main here who runs Grace+Guardian

While the Grace nerf is not as bad,Guardian is basically hit hard,having to grind or buy 11 more unranked guardians to get back to where we are now is a hard no no.

I will have to buy some more guardians to get to rank 5 when the update drops...as for Grace,i may consider leaving it as it is or just switch over to a Rank 5 Arcane Victory if i find that cooldown annoying...obv have to test first before making that decision. I am a guy that always goes for the head as much as i can anyway...

Edited by DarthIronclad
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