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I Was Right About Wasted Mod Slot (Self-Damage)


kwlingo
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Self-Damage was a flaw in weapon design and so we ended up with flawed mods to counter self-damage. It was a waste of mod slot.

With the new design of self-stagger, I think DE can excel in this concept and exaggerate the use of self propelling weapons. For example, I would be okay to have weapons propel me the same distance and effect as my Bramma flies enemies into the air.

  • Imagine falling and shooting the Bramma arrow down then triggering Alt explosion to propel yourself up into the air a few meters, saving my ability buffs instead of recasting them all.
  • When shooting a group of enemies right in front of yourself, you can damage the enemies while escaping a few meters away from the enemies. Giving some room to lock onto enemies again.
  • This could also be used as a way to speed travel. Sticky bomb explode right behind you giving you a quick speed boost on top of bullet jumping.
Edited by kwlingo
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1 hour ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

How does Cautious shot have anything to do with anatomy?

I was asking the same thing....

Wasted....waisted is on the body, I think if there was a way to waisted something.

A belt mayhaps?

Wait .... Are you saying that Warframes need Championship belts....cuz I been saying that for YEARS. If so....you got my vote

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2 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

Self damage was fine, the cautious shot mod was a crutch for inept players to cling to so they could stagger about with weapons that they apparently couldn't handle well or accept that self detonation might happen sometimes.

Yes because in every game ppl blow themselfes up all the time. Hell real life soldiers blow themselfes up all the time with Rpgs am i right?

Anyways in warframe self damage has no place with teleporting enemies and faulty hit boxes and blowing yourself shouldn't be a common thing. 

Edited by JackHargreav
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31 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Hell real life soldiers blow themselfes up all the time with Rpgs am i right?

I really hope this is sarcasm.  Rpg rockets have an arming distance so unless they're using something to directly detonate the warhead (similar to stabbing a Lith-Ion battery with a steak knife) then chances are something else blew the soldier up.

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38 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Yes because in every game ppl blow themselfes up all the time. Hell real life soldiers blow themselfes up all the time with Rpgs am i right?

Anyways in warframe self damage has no place with teleporting enemis and faulty hit boxes and blowing yourself shouldn't be a common thing. 

Because self damage for heavy explosive weapons is totally not a standard design/balance practice in games, and we totally didn't have a big balance problem the last time we had an explosive that didn't deal self damage /s

The only mistake DE did with self damage (apart from now apparently removing it whole sale for however long this lasts) was not making sure the damage scaled properly to make all explosive weapons consistently powerful nukes. With the gramma we saw a very strong example of how an self damage weapon can be justified if it has the right pay off for being used correctly, likewise with the Lenz which was a very well balanced explosive weapon as well, if you couldn't handle self damage weapons that was on you not them, but them having trade offs is fully reasonable and justified. Now we're heading a direction that will only complicate matters as the gap between weapon types grows ever larger and non-aoe weapons become all the more irrelevant. 

And all this after we just saw how much work it takes to undo massive power gaps once cemented with melee 2.99999

Edited by Cubewano
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16 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

I really hope this is sarcasm.  Rpg rockets have an arming distance so unless they're using something to directly detonate the warhead (similar to stabbing a Lith-Ion battery with a steak knife) then chances are something else blew the soldier up.

Too bad DE didn't implement that.

Which is weird because this is a game with weapons that have highly advanced technology supposedly.

Well anyways, what does it matter now?

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15 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Because self damage for heavy explosive weapons is totally not a standard design/balance practice in games, and we totally didn't have a big balance problem the last time we had an explosive that didn't deal self damage /s

The only mistake DE did with self damage (apart from now apparently removing it whole sale for however long this lasts) was not making sure the damage scaled properly to make all explosive weapons consistently powerful nukes. With the gramma we saw a very strong example of how an self damage weapon can be justified if it has the right pay off for being used correctly, likewise with the Lenz which was a very well balanced explosive weapon as well, if you couldn't handle self damage weapons that was on you not them, but them having trade offs is fully reasonable and justified. Now we're heading a direction that will only complicate matters as the gap between weapon types grows ever larger and non-aoe weapons become all the more irrelevant. 

And all this after we just saw how much work it takes to undo massive power gaps once cemented with melee 2.99999

I kinda see your point but unfortunatelly in warframe you can easily shoot an invisible wall or (because of the Horde shooter aspect) an enemy would always be there behind you, running or teleporting into the crossair and kamikaze it self and you. In Orb Vallis Overtakers can shoot the projectiles of your weapon, blowing you up of course.

Regardless of how powerfull an explosive is in warframe they should all have similar safety mechanics to the Lenz because all of the reasons above.

Because again there were several situations where you couldn't predict if you're going to kill yourself.

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3 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I kinda see your point but unfortunatelly in warframe you can easily shoot an invisible wall or (because of the Horde shooter aspect) an enemy would always be there behind you, running or teleporting into the crossair and kamikaze it self and you. In Orb Vallis Overtakers can shoot the projectiles of your weapon, blowing you up of course.

Regardless of how powerfull an explosive is in warframe they should all have similar safety mechanics to the Lenz because all of the reasons above.

Because again there were several situations where you couldn't predict if you're going to kill yourself.

I've honestly never had either of those things be an issue so I can't relate, maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm just more spatially aware than I give myself credit, but I really only ever die to self damage from my own foolishness and not making sure I'm firing at a safe distances or for some frames keeping up the right protective abilities. There aren't that many melee enemy units in the game and those that exist are so noticeable for the most part and easy to maneuver around given how great a mobility system this game has, and with invisible walls I'm not sure how much a thing that even is, but also is it that difficult to not fire super close to near objects? Like even if invisible walls exist, they definitely aren't massive, and you'd have to be aiming fairly close to a clear physical object. 

The only safety Mechanic I do sort of agree is warranted under present self damage rules would have been friendlies not setting them off since that's a little less easy to control, and also just not something you should have to be hyper cautious of. 

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4 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

I've honestly never had either of those things be an issue so I can't relate, maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm just more spatially aware than I give myself credit, but I really only ever die to self damage from my own foolishness and not making sure I'm firing at a safe distances or for some frames keeping up the right protective abilities. There aren't that many melee enemy units in the game and those that exist are so noticeable for the most part and easy to maneuver around given how great a mobility system this game has, and with invisible walls I'm not sure how much a thing that even is, but also is it that difficult to not fire super close to near objects? Like even if invisible walls exist, they definitely aren't massive, and you'd have to be aiming fairly close to a clear physical object. 

The only safety Mechanic I do sort of agree is warranted under present self damage rules would have been friendlies not setting them off since that's a little less easy to control, and also just not something you should have to be hyper cautious of. 

To me it happened too often.

But this whole thing could have been solved so easily. By either having a trigger range or just by giving us a range indicator. Actually I even made a post about the latter.

Just seeing where the projectile lands and what range the explosion has would have been grand in my opinion.

Or if we really want self damage then make it deal... damage. Instead of insta killing us. Like a 70% damage to health or whatever.

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1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

Yes because in every game ppl blow themselfes up all the time. Hell real life soldiers blow themselfes up all the time with Rpgs am i right?

Anyways in warframe self damage has no place with teleporting enemis and faulty hit boxes and blowing yourself shouldn't be a common thing. 

Agreed if people want self damage and realism then did they know that sometimes guns can jam up and sometimes bullets are made wrong and can blow up on the user. lol Maybe thats why I was dying from mission when no enemies were around.

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1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

Yes because in every game ppl blow themselfes up all the time. Hell real life soldiers blow themselfes up all the time with Rpgs am i right?

Anyways in warframe self damage has no place with teleporting enemis and faulty hit boxes and blowing yourself shouldn't be a common thing. 

If (i know this is a long stretch here) you are half way decent it doesn't happen "all the time".

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27 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

To me it happened too often.

But this whole thing could have been solved so easily. By either having a trigger range or just by giving us a range indicator. Actually I even made a post about the latter.

Just seeing where the projectile lands and what range the explosion has would have been grand in my opinion.

Or if we really want self damage then make it deal... damage. Instead of insta killing us. Like a 70% damage to health or whatever.

All ample solutions that I'd back, a distance indicator in particular could definitely be quite peachy, also some damage buffs because some self damage weapons definitely didn't scale up to their risks. That people were pretty quick to change their tune about self damage on bramma once they realized how much of a punch it packed was a solid showing of how effective proper stat balancing can be for self damage

Edited by Cubewano
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5 minutes ago, AzureTerra said:

If (i know this is a long stretch here) you are half way decent it doesn't happen "all the time".

Of course. It didn't happen all the time but when it happened, it happened suddenly out of nowhere. In my case at least.

Edited by JackHargreav
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38 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

I've honestly never had either of those things be an issue so I can't relate, maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm just more spatially aware than I give myself credit, but I really only ever die to self damage from my own foolishness and not making sure I'm firing at a safe distances or for some frames keeping up the right protective abilities.

I highly doubt this because even when your allies or your Kavat jump in front of you, it can trigger the self damage kill.

A simple solution is to have a toggle option in options menu, turning on self-damage for the really good players and off for everyone else who don't care for it.

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1 minute ago, kwlingo said:

I highly doubt this because even when your allies or your Kavat jump in front of you, it can trigger the self damage kill.

A simple solution is to have a toggle option in options menu, turning on self-damage for the really good players and off for everyone else who don't care for it.

Good for you but it's the truth, team mates are probably the closest to a not fully deserved self inflicted death for me and even that is like rare, and again is one area I would probably agree is fair grounds to invalidate self damage on.

And that solution doesn't really do anything, at all. The problem is how this change affects overall game balance, not personal difficulty values, this is a co-op game balance doesn't happen in individualized bubbles. 

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20 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

 

And that solution doesn't really do anything, at all. The problem is how this change affects overall game balance, not personal difficulty values, this is a co-op game balance doesn't happen in individualized bubbles. 

Actually most content in Warframe is non co-op, we have either nukers doing all the kills or speed frames killing all enemies while everyone chases behind hoping to find stragglers from everyday mission and sorties. The only time I see co-op is when players organize long survivals, speed runs on boss fights like Profit taker/ Eidolons.

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