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(XB1)ECCHO SIERRA

Oh boy. I cant wait for the arcane changes.

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5 hours ago, Darklord_Tou said:

ya DE makes stupid decisions sometimes... and by sometimes i mean all the time.

Seems that way 

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Yeah Arcane Guardian
On Rank 5: On Damaged:
15% chance for +600 Armor for 30s

 that's not a 50% increase on any but duration it's a 50% nerf on proc for the exact buff so basically de needs to buff it to 30% chance for +900 armor for 30 seconds because de almost every old prime has absolutely zero survivability with armor under the base 300 needed to build for survivability 

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On 2020-02-29 at 4:52 AM, WhiteMarker said:

The amount of salt in these threads is awesome.

Overused stuff gets changed? Are you guys really surprised that happened?
Everyone angry about it is just someone without any experience. Maybe, instead of just doing what some Youtuber told you, you should start to think for yourself. Then you won't be surprised anymore.

What if DE re-released Excalibur Prime to the public, effectively nullifying your reward for assisting the game financially during its early stages, and someone told you this? 

Players spent a lot of time and energy grinding the same content to get their arcanes to where they wanted them. suddenly requiring them to do what is almost 100% of that legwork again for in some instances markedly less value than they had to begin with will never be something people will just be happy about. 
 

Might just dissolve my arcanes and sell them at inflated prices when they ship because I sure don't want to stack more of them and still be less efficient. 

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2 minutes ago, TENNO_NOT_FOUND said:

What if DE re-released Excalibur Prime to the public and someone told you this? 

Oh I'm sure you want to explain what you are talking about 😉

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3 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

You sure got a lot of pride riding on doing Eidolons. I personally don't enjoy it, how it's done, or that it makes ever night an obligatory Eidolon fight, where Chromas and Volts get cheesy. Must be a super duper big brain to shoot through Volt's shield. o_O. Real impressed there hotshot.

Shoot through Volt -> Where you listened that xit? Oh yeah, comes from that 0 hydro capture exp you have, KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK. Learn to build, than you won't need that.

Big brain? It require more than doing the rest of Warframe content, yes.

Chroma -> Not Necessary. Volt -> Not necessary. To do Eidolons all you need are 1 person with Unairu and Other 1-3 with Madurai and some practice, and a DPS with properly builded Weapon with forms of buffs.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tell me how amasing and difficult it is to do (Defense, Survive, Excavation, etc) over and over again, because almost everything in Warframe is just this same things reused.

Sorty -> Same missions with enemies higher lvl + modifiers (Restritions and Radic procs for example).

Arbitration -> Same missions with enemies higher lvl + modifiers (Drones + No self revive).

Fissure -> Same missions + modifiers (Corrupted enemies).

Eso -> Just a big extermination mission.

Liches -> Same missions with enemies higher lvl + modifiers (Thralls + Lich sometimes).

Some future content here -> Same missions with enemies higher lvl + modifiers

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Almost everything in terms of how you can acomplish success in a mission in Warframe is braindead easy and simple, you don't need partners, nor a team, nor other buffs, simple and easy, a 0 Coop game actually, dunno why people say Warframe is a Coop game, and you hardly need to put effort to learn about. The only thing you have to know is "can I survive and kill enemies there". There is only one, only one PvE content that you need to put a little more effort in learn about, and it is eidolons. And most people don't know how to do them decent, I'm not even talking about 5x3 or 6x3 here. If that's not lazy, what is.

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40 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Oh I'm sure you want to explain what you are talking about 😉

This is more for other people, since I doubt you and I will ever come to an understanding, but:


People who maxed some of the arcanes touched in the patch spent a substantial amount of time and energy stacking those items for the buffs they provided, only to have them nerfed arbitrarily because not enough people used a significant portion of the other arcanes, rather than for a balancing issue. There's a hundred ways the devs could have attacked this, from keeping the current highly used arcanes at rank 3 max, but unchanged to making the arcanes that nobody uses more attractive to use (i.e. a flat chance to resist *any* status proc instead of a 100% chance to resist one of them) 

All I'm saying is, maybe don't be a jerk/presumptuous to people getting annoyed after being told they need to do a significant amount of grind again because the devs want people to use their less effective content.

People should be allowed to play with what they earned without getting suddenly set back by almost the full workload by a shift in design philosophy, and they have every right to be angry if they do. Whether that be arcanes or skins/content. 

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On 2020-02-29 at 4:43 AM, JackHargreav said:

I doubt you have to level up the arcanes that you already maxed out.

Your optimism saddens me because i am cynical at this point....

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On 2020-02-29 at 4:43 AM, JackHargreav said:

I doubt you have to level up the arcanes that you already maxed out.

is there a source for this one way or the other?

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I still fail to see how the change is not a positive thing, I have played many games and if double stacking was considered a issue those dev's would have just patched out double stacking and been done with it. At least DE has created a solution to what they consider a problem.

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33 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

is there a source for this one way or the other?

yeah its was talked about in the stream they stated you would be able to combine two maxed out arcanes into a new rank 5, so they are not just upping the rank 3's 

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On 2020-02-29 at 6:16 AM, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Dont worry guys. DE specifically said Scarlett Spear vendor will have arcanes or something and if you think that grind will be excessive you're paranoid. 

If you don't like eidolons that's not DEs problem, you dont play a mission, you dont get the reward, lots of rewards are restricted to very specific mission types to not make playing different stuff redundant reward wise.

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16 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

If you don't like eidolons that's not DEs problem, you dont play a mission, you dont get the reward, lots of rewards are restricted to very specific mission types to not make playing different stuff redundant reward wise.

Correction: if you dont play a mission in a limited time span because you dont spend every waking day of your life staring at a clock to see when its night time and ensuring  you have no social life or better S#&$ to do, then you dont get the reward.

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36 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

If you don't like eidolons that's not DEs problem, you dont play a mission, you dont get the reward, lots of rewards are restricted to very specific mission types to not make playing different stuff redundant reward wise.

You missed 90% of the point. 

"Hey, remember how you grinded for arcane guardians until you got ten of them? Go grind 11 more so it can be slightly worse than it is now". 

 

THAT is the part that I have a problem with. 

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After the Devstream and the announcement of the Arcane changes i had to read the full post up closer to have a better idea of what was coming in.

As expected there are a lot of nerfing and few buffs but the major point here is the fact they are removing the "Double stacking" of the Arcanes and raising their ranks to rank 5 from rank 3.

 

The rank rising is a tremendous problem and here is why:

I personally ever wanted 2 Arcanes; Grace and Aegis and i invested the time grinding and the time on the market chat in order to get them. Not only i worked hard to get both my Arcanes Graces and single Aegis (all rank3) but i repeated the process to get them for my wife as well, i do not know and i m not willing to count the amount of time, resources and the energy spent negotiating with other players in order to get these items to max level. .

Raising the rank form 3 to 5 will deny most of the work i already invested in those items since i will have to essentially redo it once again. I spend all that time and resources in order to get finished and complete products in the end. That is just me and i went for the select few high ends ones that i wanted, others got far more work invested in their collection so the effects of the ranking up will be even more frustrating to them, even worse if platinum was bought then used to purchase these.

All Rank 3 arcanes currently in the game should be raised to rank 5 automatically, everything after the patch we go from rank 0 all the way to 5 following the new system but please DE do not deny the work already invested in those items by players.

This is the equivalent of making a change in the name of balance and forcing players to "remax" all their primed mods because after a change in a patch they all got retrograded to level 5 without compensation for all the credits and endo invested prior to the change. Is that fair in any ways? 

 

Nerfing arcane is annoying but for the sake of balance fine, removing double stacking is very annoying but once again there a solution to this by making the new rank 5 Arcanes somewhat like a stacking a pair but moving the goal post further after we already completed the grind for top ranked Arcanes that is just wrong and it does feel like a slap in the face.

Be fair DE, dont "unbake the cake"

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It won't. They are raising the maximum level but also the maximum they provide and for most of them, the power given by a level 3 arcane will be roughly the same.
So, what it mean is you will just keep what you had now but if you want, you will be able to further upgrade your arcane to level 5 and get more power.

Unless you were running 2 time the same arcane, it's a straight upgrade.
You should see it more like the introduction of a primed variant of an existing rank 5 mod (to 10 ranks), but happening for all arcanes and for free.

Edit : I just overlooked the post before answering, but your final suggestion is actually what will happen, unless rank 5 arcanes are about 1.5x the power of one current rank 3 arcane rather than 2x.
 

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They are putting in the ability to break your arcanes back down to R0 to use them in upgrades again. I think the math is you will need to go out and get a single R0 to take two R3s and make a single R5.

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2 hours ago, TENNO_NOT_FOUND said:

This is more for other people, since I doubt you and I will ever come to an understanding, but:


People who maxed some of the arcanes touched in the patch spent a substantial amount of time and energy stacking those items for the buffs they provided, only to have them nerfed arbitrarily because not enough people used a significant portion of the other arcanes, rather than for a balancing issue. There's a hundred ways the devs could have attacked this, from keeping the current highly used arcanes at rank 3 max, but unchanged to making the arcanes that nobody uses more attractive to use (i.e. a flat chance to resist *any* status proc instead of a 100% chance to resist one of them) 

All I'm saying is, maybe don't be a jerk/presumptuous to people getting annoyed after being told they need to do a significant amount of grind again because the devs want people to use their less effective content.

People should be allowed to play with what they earned without getting suddenly set back by almost the full workload by a shift in design philosophy, and they have every right to be angry if they do. Whether that be arcanes or skins/content. 

This still doesn't explain why you started talking about Excalibur Prime?
DE always said Excalibur Prime is Founder exclusive. DE will never bring him back. So I don't have to fear them re-releasing him.
Arcanes are a completely different story. Right from the start we all knew they might change in the future. Atleast some of us knew. The people that know how to think for themselves knew. 
That's why I'm still amazed by the amount of salt and by the fact that people are surprised this is happening.
All of this has happened before and will happen again.

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What worries me in the change in scale.

For instance: Arcane Aegis changes to:

"Arcane Aegis:  On Rank 5: On Shield Damaged: 3% chance for +30% Shield Recharge for 12s."

From

Arcane Aegis: 
"On Rank 3: On Shield Damaged: 6
% chance for +60 Shield points Recharge per seconds for 20s."

 

The current rank 3 is far superior to the upcoming one and Aegis wasn't really a broken one, actually it made shield tanking almost viable.

The problem is that there was no real benefits of stacking two Aegis but now to get a version that is worse (because the rank 3 cant be superior to the rank 5) i have to grind another set plus and extra rank 0

 

Arcane Guardian is another example of another one that requires two sets to get the benefits of a single rank 3 we currently have.

 

That is why i oppose the upcoming changes to Arcanes but also the anemic excuses they provided can be translated into "because we felt like so".

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3 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

This still doesn't explain why you started talking about Excalibur Prime?
DE always said Excalibur Prime is Founder exclusive. DE will never bring him back. So I don't have to fear them re-releasing him.
Arcanes are a completely different story.

DE also said they want to remove as much needless grind as possible, and yet this is the antithesis to that. 

All you have is their word that they will not. There's nothing legally binding them to either not doing specifically that, or a reskin that is incredibly similar with a minor cosmetic difference.

It's an extreme example, but that is besides the point. The point I'm making is that maybe you shouldn't mock people expecting things that require a heavy investment of time or effort to have relative consistency. 

4 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Right from the start we all knew they might change in the future. Atleast some of us knew. The people that know how to think for themselves knew. 
That's why I'm still amazed by the amount of salt and by the fact that people are surprised this is happening.
All of this has happened before and will happen again.

You can be as amazed as you'd like. Effectively undoing a player's progress for an arbitrary reason will never not make people who chose to make that progress upset. It would be one thing if it was just a frame or weapon change, but the arcanes depend on RNG and repetitive grind and, in some cases, even plat for stacking. 

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12 minutes ago, TENNO_NOT_FOUND said:

It's an extreme example

Oh it's far from that. It's a bad example.
DE never said that Arcanes wouldn't change. DE said hundreds of times that founder stuff is gone and won't come back.
And founders stuff was only ever obtainable with real money. Arcanes are far from that.
So again, it's not an extreme example. It's a S#&$ty one that doesn't work here at all ^^

14 minutes ago, TENNO_NOT_FOUND said:

You can be as amazed as you'd like. Effectively undoing a player's progress for an arbitrary reason will never not make people who chose to make that progress upset. It would be one thing if it was just a frame or weapon change, but the arcanes depend on RNG and repetitive grind and, in some cases, even plat for stacking. 

But nothing is undone at all. Or does DE remove Arcanes completely? No? Then again, nothing is undone. It's just changed. Happened with countless things before. Will happen with countless things in the future.
People need to stop getting attached to things. This way you won't have to rage about minor things. Warframe never needed Arcanes, or rivens (if we are at it).

16 minutes ago, TENNO_NOT_FOUND said:

but the arcanes depend on RNG and repetitive grind and, in some cases, even plat for stacking. 

I will give you RNG and grind. But they don't depend on plat. People wanted to spend plat.

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Just now, WhiteMarker said:

Oh it's far from that. It's a bad example.
DE never said that Arcanes wouldn't change. DE said hundreds of times that founder stuff is gone and won't come back.
And founders stuff was only ever obtainable with real money. Arcanes are far from that.
So again, it's not an extreme example. It's a S#&$ty one that doesn't work here at all ^^

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that, The fact of the matter is you consider it valuable, only have DE's word that it is permanent, and that if anything were to happen to it you'd be rightly upset. If you were one to take stock in DE saying their intention was not to flood you with grind, you might be inclined to think that after you finished one of the grindiest facets of the game as it stood you wouldn't have to do it again for maintenance. 

5 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

But nothing is undone at all. 

Nerfing the power levels of an existing arcane that requires heavy grind effectively undoes a player's time investment. Sure, the arcanes aren't completely removed, but players that considered the current benefit worth the grind that may consider the new rank 3 version unsatisfactory have effectively have their efforts set back. 

10 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

People need to stop getting attached to things. This way you won't have to rage about minor things. Warframe never needed Arcanes, or rivens (if we are at it).

People get attached to things they spend time acquiring, even minor things like rivens. Whether you think Arcanes or Rivens needed to be in the game is irrelevant. Someone worked for it, so if it isn't breaking the game there's no reason to confront them with doing that progression again, no matter how much you want them to start using another one. 

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On 2020-02-29 at 5:21 AM, schilds said:

Current Aegis gives +60 shields/second. New Aegis will be 30% of recharge rate. The base shield recharge rate on a frame with maxed Redirection is about 70 shields/second. So Aegis will get about +20 shields/second when recharging. Hildryn with maxed Redirection will get around 58 shields/second.

However, Aegis has another benefit which is to trigger shield recharge (normally only happens when you stopped getting hit). It's unclear whether the new Aegis will do this.

It wont, the shield recharge rate applies when the shield is recharging but if you keep getting damaged it wont recharge unless you hide.

The flat shield points per seconds however was triggered when the arcane was activated and thus forcing the shield to recharge during the arcane active window.

Something you test if you have the arcane right now: Get the Aegis to proc and keep getting hit for most of the duration of the effect but jump into cover during the last 2 or 3 seconds before the effect expires. If you didnt not reach max shield capacity during the recharge effect you will notice that your shield stop recharging once the Aegis lose its effect even if its not full.

Its a bit tricky to test but after a while in the Simulacrum i managed to explain why i got sudden death on shielded frame when i tough it was recharging, i died because i assumed it was recharging but it stopped when the Arcane stopped as well.

 

I would be pleasantly surprised if the new Aegis with garbage stats (yay upgrade...) was allowing shield to be recharging even under fire.

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On 2020-02-29 at 5:32 AM, schilds said:

If Aegis no longer triggers shield recharge, that's a straight up nerf, otherwise it's the same on Hildryn and nerfed on other frames.

It's a nerf for Hildryn even if it still triggers recharge.  Not being able to proc while the buff is active is going to mean a big drop in uptime.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

Correction: if you dont play a mission in a limited time span because you dont spend every waking day of your life staring at a clock to see when its night time and ensuring  you have no social life or better S#&$ to do, then you dont get the reward.

The usual excuse to -> "I'm too lazy to learn, let me say I have a life."

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4 hours ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

Correction: if you dont play a mission in a limited time span because you dont spend every waking day of your life staring at a clock to see when its night time and ensuring  you have no social life or better S#&$ to do, then you dont get the reward.

I had to edit this post because i realized i was being a $&*^ and miss judged the context of the conversation...

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