Oh boy. I cant wait for the arcane changes.

[SordidDreams]

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

In say energize's case you only need a level that makes it beneficial to your build. Maxing it will have no purpose if you cannot make use of the energy that it provides before it has a time to trigger again.

You make it sound as if making use of energy is hard in WF. It is not.

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So currently we have Arcane Grace that is a nerf across the board. Not that it was really useful on more than a handful of frames i.e those that could reach a couple of thousand HP and good mitigation for high ehp. And then we have an armor nerf to guardian if the workshop value is correct and isnt supposed to say 900 instead.

You have that the wrong way around. Most arcanes are either completely worthless or only useful for very specific min-maxed meme builds. For a lot of players who can't be a*sed farming the Eidolons and can't afford to kit out every frame with its own set of arcanes, Guardian + Grace is a great choice that's useful on almost all frames in the game (except Hildryn). Which I suspect is precisely why DE is nerfing them. As we've seen with Catchmoon, they don't care if something makes the game more fun, they only care about usage numbers. If something is used too much (i.e. is too fun), it gets nerfed.

[Oreades]

32 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

How is increasing max lvls from 3 to 5 with increased effects a Nerf?

I think the main concern at least from where I see it is specifically with Arcane Guardian. 

Currently at lvl 3 it has a 20% chance to proc 600 extra armor for 20 seconds, if you stacked two and if they both procced I think you ended up with 1200 armor. 

However the current proposition (hopefully a typo) goes as follows, at lvl 5 it will proc at a 15% chance to proc 600 Armor for 30 seconds..... that doesn't seem anywhere near an upgrade seeing as you have less of a chance for it to proc for the same ammount of armor as a single AG and the only positive change being you get it for an extra 10 seconds.

Side by side you have to admit it is sorta painful 

AGr3 20% chance to proc 600 Armor for 20 Seconds (stacked to 1200 Armor with 2 sets)
AGr5 15% chacne to proc 600 Armor for 30 Seconds (does not stack)

And if your R5 is going down by 15% then the future R3 will inevitably be taking a hit to something below 15% so the curve can work it's way up to 15% all for the same (600 single) or less (1200 stacking) Armor. 

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Oreades

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

14 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

How is increasing max lvls from 3 to 5 with increased effects a Nerf?

Arcane Energize por example at lvl 3 has 40% chance to restore additional 100 energy to you and your teammates, with the changes its going up to 60% 150 Energy at rank 5. Where is the nerf?

The issue becomes I already have max arcanes..when the update drops I won't. I'll need another 11 to max. It would be the same as you having a max prime mod and then after a update you have another 11 ranks to max through either buggy RNG eidolons rewards every other hour or buggy railjack squad link. And that's straight up bullS#&$.

Edited March 3, 2020 by (XB1)YoungGunn82

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, SordidDreams said:

You make it sound as if making use of energy is hard in WF. It is not.

You have that the wrong way around. Most arcanes are either completely worthless or only useful for very specific min-maxed meme builds. For a lot of players who can't be a*sed farming the Eidolons and can't afford to kit out every frame with its own set of arcanes, Guardian + Grace is a great choice that's useful on almost all frames in the game (except Hildryn). Which I suspect is precisely why DE is nerfing them. As we've seen with Catchmoon, they don't care if something makes the game more fun, they only care about usage numbers. If something is used too much (i.e. is too fun), it gets nerfed.

It is. Even when I'm playing my most spammy game I'm constantly at max and overcapping very often with a non-max rank energize, even on Ember when she is at her most power hungry levels. We have so many build options that renders the current energize near pointless. This change may hurt the most spammy and efficiency negative Saryn's out there and thank the gods for that.

Grace a great choice on any frame? I wouldnt waste the slot on that unless the frame has a serious health pool to begin with. It is a measly 40/sec on a 1k hp frame, which needs to trigger aswell. It is great on Inaros since he gets around 300/sec in a high health build.

[Oreades]

20 minutes ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

The issue becomes I already have max arcanes..when the update drops I won't. I'll need another 11 to max. It would be the same as you having a max prime mod and then after a update you have another 11 ranks to max through either biggy RNG eidolons or buggy railjack squad link. And that's bullS#&$.

.I think it really depends on how accessible DE ends up making Arcanes in the future.

Because on the one hand yeah they are essentially nerfing the benefit curve across the board.
But on the other hand we will be able to get comparable (in most cases) benefits to two sets with one set which means we can equip two unique sets. 

If Arcanes do become more accessible then there is no real issue because getting another 11 shouldn't be terribly difficult however if they are overly stingy with it this could definitely blow up in DEs face. That said I also suspect the bulk of players who would be the most vocal about the change already have 2 sets so the most they would have to farm is a single arcane. Hopefully DE isn't counting on that to keep the Arcanes unnecessarily rare. 

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Oreades

[Skaleek]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

measly 40/sec

I remember the days when we considered rejuvenation strong health regen you know.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Skaleek

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

I mean if scarlet spear works like plague star where you can pick each reward and they plan to add in all arcane then not really exploiting players beside the new players that buy b4 informing themselves by ya know reading forums, asking vet player that watch all dev streams or watching youtube WF partners.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Skaleek said:

I remember the days when we considered rejuvenation strong health regen you know.

We just have so many ways to heal that wasting a frame arcane on it seems so pointless. I dont even use Regenerative Molt on Saryn because the gain is simply too low for the cost of slotting it and I can heal myself either with my melee or operator arcane much faster. And that is with Reg Molt being a guaranteed heal even and not a 6% chance proc.

[Skaleek]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

We just have so many ways to heal that wasting a frame arcane on it seems so pointless. I dont even use Regenerative Molt on Saryn because the gain is simply too low for the cost of slotting it and I can heal myself either with my melee or operator arcane much faster. And that is with Reg Molt being a guaranteed heal even and not a 6% chance proc.

I mean no one's even mentioned what this is going to do for magus repair. I'm also curious if weapon arcanes are going to be changed? Doubt many people have 20 (21) of those.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Skaleek

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

I mean no one's even mentioned what this is going to do for magus repair. I'm also curious if weapon arcanes are going to be changed? Doubt many people have 20 (21) of those.

Imagine if they just straight up buff repair. 50% increase would mean it heals 30% per second at rank 5. That is just silly since 2x repair currently is overkill. Not to mention you'd be able to combo elevate and repair, so your have a setup that instant heals low HP frames in 75% of the cases while also healing them for a guaranteed 30% hp as a backup, and it works good on high HP frames aswell since a 30% tick is enough to keep them going for a good while.

Or a 30% guaranteed health reg along with lockdown that will also be even better.

I'm hoping DE have thought this through.

[SordidDreams]

23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

We have so many build options that renders the current energize near pointless.

If that were true, it wouldn't be one of the two most valuable and desirable arcanes in the game. Along with, you guessed it, Grace.

23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Grace a great choice on any frame? I wouldnt waste the slot on that unless the frame has a serious health pool to begin with. It is a measly 40/sec on a 1k hp frame, which needs to trigger aswell. It is great on Inaros since he gets around 300/sec in a high health build.

Raw health numbers are meaningless, a trap for newbies to fall into before they learn the game. It's all about what damage reduction you can stack. A lot of frames can stack two 90% damage reductions (frame ability + Adaptation). If you're only taking 1% of incoming damage, 40 health/s is more than enough to keep you topped up nicely even into very high levels.

Edited March 3, 2020 by SordidDreams

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

22 minutes ago, Oreades said:

If Arcanes do become more accessible then there is no real issue because getting another 11 shouldn't be terribly difficult however if they are overly stingy with it this could definitely blow up in DEs face. That said I also suspect the bulk of players who would be the most vocal about the change already have 2 sets so the most they would have to farm is a single arcane. Hopefully DE isn't counting on that to keep the Arcanes unnecessarily rare. 

Remember, I'm sure they don't want to make eidolons irrelevant either. So the grind will probably be comparable if not ALOT worse. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by (XB1)YoungGunn82

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

If that were true, it wouldn't be one of the two most valuable and desirable arcanes in the game. Along with, you guessed it, Grace.

Raw health numbers are meaningless, a trap for newbies to fall into before they learn the game. It's all about what damage reduction you can stack. A lot of frames can get stack two 90% damage reductions (frame ability + Adaptation). If you're only taking 1% of incoming damage, 40 health/s is more than enough to keep you topped up nicely even into very high levels.

Because people only see big numbers and dont actually put an actual relation to it how it works in the game.

No, raw health numbers arent meaningless if you want to come down to how much it actually heals for. 40/sec is still 40/sec no matter how much ehp you have. The value is simply too low for a dedicated arcane slot on low hp frames when we have so many other ways to heal that cost us less itemization slots. If you take so little damage that grace can keep your low hp frame alive you may aswell just use a magus arcane each X seconds instead, or just melee down the enemy with either a nikana+daikyu or healing return. Because if you are in content where 40/sec is enough, you wont be at any risk in melee.

[SordidDreams]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

people only see big numbers and dont actually put an actual relation to it how it works in the game

 

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

raw health numbers arent meaningless if you want to come down to how much it actually heals for. 40/sec is still 40/sec no matter how much ehp you have

I... don't think that needs any comment from me, frankly.

[ArcticHelix]

As the heavy weapons guy once said: You all are babies

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

I... don't think that needs any comment from me, frankly.

I dont know, does it? I'm no mindreader so I dont know what you tried to imply.

[DeMonkey]

56 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

How is increasing max lvls from 3 to 5 with increased effects a Nerf?

Because in the current case of stacking them, you'll now have decreased effects. 10 Arcanes (1 slot) gives 50% potential effectiveness. 20 Arcanes (2 slots) gets you 100% effectiveness. After the changes 21 Arcanes (1 slot) will get you 75% effectiveness, supposedly having 1.5x the effect of the current 10.

There are both buffs and nerfs here. Per slot values have increased (for some), but at the cost of decreased effects if using specific Arcanes now and double the grind.

[MPonder]

1 hour ago, Oreades said:

 

 

1 hour ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

 

Point me skill or hard in anything I wrote that I really meant it. Just replying to a guy that came with an excuse of "I have a life" to not know how to do something. "I don't have time for eidolon, because I spend my time on my spy missions" Btw???

 Every 2:30 has one night, meaning 1:40 of day time, and 50m of night time, you don't have to wait 2:30 for a night.

There is no salt about arcanes, yet. If they don't make them so easy on Operation, I don't care.

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by MPonder

[Skaleek]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

Because in the current case of stacking them, you'll now have decreased effects. 10 Arcanes (1 slot) gives 50% potential effectiveness. 20 Arcanes (2 slots) gets you 100% effectiveness. After the changes 21 Arcanes (1 slot) will get you 75% effectiveness, supposedly having 1.5x the effect of the current 10.

There are both buffs and nerfs here. Per slot values have increased (for some), but at the cost of decreased effects if using specific Arcanes now and double the grind.

I'm gonna miss my double avenger adarza harrow nukor build 😞

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Skaleek said:

I'm gonna miss my double avenger adarza harrow nukor build 😞

3k armour Wukong for me.

[KosmicKerman]

Has DE mentioned the stats for R3 arcanes? Are these going to remain untouched or will they be scaled down to 90% as R5 arcanes will be roughly 150% current R3 arcanes? Assuming the stats increase proportionately for each arcane level, a R3 arcane after the mainline update would only have 90% of the stats it has now (150/5=30, 30x3=90). Of course the stats for an R3 could be even lower if DE makes R5s at less than 150%. So, I would not entirely dismiss the idea that this could end up being a net nerf of arcanes people already possess. 

[Tinklzs]

5 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

You need 20 Arcanes today in order to double-stack.

I have 2 R3 Guardians, and Arcane distillation is being added. At worst I'll need just 1 more Arcane after distillation, or none at all if they go with 5+5 for the missing ranks.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

To play devil's advocate here, that's for those who double stack. Those who don't, their grind (which was over for them) is now resumed as if they never did it.  This complaint I see completely valid, and it sucks for those who either don't have the time or cannot participate in this upcoming event for various reasons, now are SOL due to no fault of their own.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2020-03-02 at 3:31 PM, MPonder said:

Those things doesn't exist in good hunts. an OK 5x3 with lots of mistake, you still hardly see those. Only when it is time to kill the last eidolon.

It happens as early as the second one and the regulary occuring lightbeams. Due to how the camera handles and how the game demands us to be close, it often #*!%s up what you can actually see. Both in the sense of what the beam blocks and in the sense that you dont see crucial effect at some camera angles (even when zoomed out the most). Not mention all the obstructions of hills etc. and it being impossible to look at the ground for AoE when you look up to attack the eidolon at the best angle.

They are just horribly designed fights.

[SneakyErvin]

8 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

To play devil's advocate here, that's for those who double stack. Those who don't, their grind (which was over for them) is now resumed as if they never did it.  This complaint I see completely valid, and it sucks for those who either don't have the time or cannot participate in this upcoming event for various reasons, now are SOL due to no fault of their own.

If it stays the same, their work is intact, they can simply decide to improve on what they have because the arcanes got extra levels added to them. If R3 gets worse and you need to grind to R4 or R5 to get the power back, then yeah they have a valid complaint.

If someone used two different arcanes at R3 that stays the same they wont feel a nerf, they can decide to stay there or grind more to gain extra power compared to before.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

Am I the only one who heard DE say arcanes will be available through a token system in Scarlet Spear?

Yes? Just me? Okay then.