100% Status Shotguns: buff or nerf?

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

55 minutes ago, nslay said:

You can already do that... and you should already be doing that in our current system. If you're not, you're doing it wrong. For example, in the current system, if you mod a 30% status shotgun for Gas, you add the 90 Toxin mod (for multiple reasons including the one you're talking about!). Do you go for crit? Probably not (2 mod slots are free from just this) since most status shotguns have bad base crit chance. What about Corrosive? You use Primed Charged Shell to tilt the proc priorities toward Corrosive (if you don't, you didn't do it right). You also need to use these kinds of tricks to overcome the native IPS. Native IPS in the weapons has a 4x likelihood proc priority over the elements you mod... So you would honestly want to fit (new or old system) the Primed Charged Shell into, say, Strun Wraith (an Impact shotgun!) for this reason.

By the way, in the new system, you still want to stack status for stackable status effects (Slash, Heat, Gas, Toxin, Corrosive).

The point is that if a complementary status doesn't benefit your build (for example if you want corrosive but don't need heat/cold/blast) there's no longer going to be such a hard requirement for that other 60/60 mod because you don't *need* status at 100. The new shotgun savvy replaces the old shotgun savvy and a 60/60 mod in a single slot as far as status is concerned.

This means you can use that extra slot you freed up to build into your DPS, or you can double down on status by combining in something like Motus Prep and taking your status further over the top.

And yeah you do. And you may also want status for the non-stackable status effect's stacking bonus.

Which is literally the point here. There's a lot of other mechanics that are all coming into play here and slapping it with a comment like "It's a nerf" is really meaningless when the new systems could end up making it anywhere from a total dumpstering to a new level of god tier.

We really just need to take things as they come and test it when it launches.

[nslay]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

The point is that if a complementary status doesn't benefit your build (for example if you want corrosive but don't need heat/cold/blast) there's no longer going to be such a hard requirement for that other 60/60 mod because you don't *need* status at 100. The new shotgun savvy replaces the old shotgun savvy and a 60/60 mod in a single slot as far as status is concerned.

On the contrary you actually still need to stack status for stackable effects... Higher status means more pellets proc those stackable status effects. That you can't reach 100 doesn't mean that you don't need to or shouldn't stack it.

You didn't need to effectively nerf shotguns to buff Shotgun Savvy and achieve the same result. Whether DE changes how status works or not, a 90% Shotgun Savvy frees up a single slot.

9 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

This means you can use that extra slot you freed up to build into your DPS, or you can double down on status by combining in something like Motus Prep and taking your status further over the top.

And this has nothing to do with the new system. All DE has to do is buff Shotgun Savvy and you have the same build diversity. Same effect, no? You can double down just the same with Motup Setup and 90% Shotgun Savvy.

11 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

And yeah you do. And you may also want status for the non-stackable status effect's stacking bonus.

Which is literally the point here. There's a lot of other mechanics that are all coming into play here and slapping it with a comment like "It's a nerf" is really meaningless when the new systems could end up making it anywhere from a total dumpstering to a new level of god tier.

We really just need to take things as they come and test it when it launches.

For the non-stackable effects, even in the current system, you didn't need 100% status. The per-shot interpretation meant that 1 or more pellets proc status with the probability given by the arsenal. One pellet is more than enough for, say, Viral.

There is no question that this is a nerf to almost all shotguns. You can't make most shotguns proc all pellets in the new system when you could make most of them proc all pellets in the current... That's a nerf.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

10 minutes ago, nslay said:

On the contrary you actually still need to stack status for stackable effects... Higher status means more pellets proc those stackable status effects. That you can't reach 100 doesn't mean that you don't need to or shouldn't stack it.

You didn't need to effectively nerf shotguns to buff Shotgun Savvy and achieve the same result. Whether DE changes how status works or not, a 90% Shotgun Savvy frees up a single slot.

And this has nothing to do with the new system. All DE has to do is buff Shotgun Savvy and you have the same build diversity. Same effect, no? You can double down just the same with Motup Setup and 90% Shotgun Savvy.

For the non-stackable effects, even in the current system, you didn't need 100% status. The per-shot interpretation meant that 1 or more pellets proc status with the probability given by the arsenal. One pellet is more than enough for, say, Viral.

There is no question that this is a nerf to almost all shotguns. You can't make most shotguns proc all pellets in the new system when you could make most of them proc all pellets in the current... That's a nerf.

...So your complaint is that they didn't just buff already arguably broken weapons, and instead paired that buff with a different kind of nerf to balance it out? Are you frickin' kidding me?

For non-stackable effects you could previously only proc them once. You can now use multiple pellets to apply the same condition multiple times and get additional effects like additional staggers out of Blast. That's a huge buff. Shotgun Savvy as you said is a huge buff. 

With the new systems in place you don't *NEED* them all to proc 100% of the time like you previously did. The effects where that actually benefited them (Corrosive and Heat) don't matter nearly as much anymore because armour's being tailed off, and the effects that are going to be more useful on a shotgun like the new Blast are going to do a much better job even with the effectively halved status chance.

A system where every indication is that status procs are going to be *more* effective is hardly a nerf...

 

Yes status chance is decreasing. That doesn't mean the usefulness of those shotguns is decreasing, because the status chance decrease does not exist in a vacuum.

Edited March 3, 2020 by (NSW)Sniperfox47

[844448]

If i'm not mistaken, status chance listed is counted after the multishot pellets so 100% is the total after multishot means your kohm has (100/12) = 8.33% to proc per pellet, not 100% for all 12 pellets

[0_The_F00l]

3 minutes ago, 844448 said:

If i'm not mistaken, status chance listed is counted after the multishot pellets so 100% is the total after multishot means your kohm has (100/12) = 8.33% to proc per pellet, not 100% for all 12 pellets

You sir have no idea about what is being discussed. 

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

6 minutes ago, 844448 said:

If i'm not mistaken, status chance listed is counted after the multishot pellets so 100% is the total after multishot means your kohm has (100/12) = 8.33% to proc per pellet, not 100% for all 12 pellets

Multishot from mods and built in multishot currently gets treated different.

If the multishot you have comes from mods then what you said is right (it's not a straight division, its a messed up formula that includes a root, but straight division is close-ish enough).

If the multishot comes from the weapon though such as the example of the Kohm mentioned by you above, what you said is only true until you hit 100% status. Then (because of the buggy formula mentioned above) status magically jumps to 100% per pellet.

This is why you so frequently see shotgun builds stressing that you need to get to 100% status before multishot mods.

The new system will give them a *much* higher status progression prior to 100% total weapon status, but it won't have that sudden massive jump at 100%. 

[nslay]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

...So your complaint is that they didn't just buff already arguably broken weapons, and instead paired that buff with a different kind of nerf to balance it out? Are you frickin' kidding me?

For non-stackable effects you could previously only proc them once. You can now use multiple pellets to apply the same condition multiple times and get additional effects like additional staggers out of Blast. That's a huge buff. Shotgun Savvy as you said is a huge buff. 

With the new systems in place you don't *NEED* them all to proc 100% of the time like you previously did. The effects where that actually benefited them (Corrosive and Heat) don't matter nearly as much anymore because armour's being tailed off, and the effects that are going to be more useful on a shotgun like the new Blast are going to do a much better job even with the effectively halved status chance.

A system where every indication is that status procs are going to be *more* effective is hardly a nerf...

 

Yes status chance is decreasing. That doesn't mean the usefulness of those shotguns is decreasing, because the status chance decrease does not exist in a vacuum.

Oh, I'm not complaining... I have my own ideas of how to work around this and I have some strange non-100% hybrid builds that work even in this system!

But I also don't think that this is necessarily currently broken. I do think it's currently horribly inconsistent with how crit per pellet works (and especially horrible for players... you need to know this and then you need a calculator!). To put this into perspective, compare shotguns with multiple low damage pellets to high fire rate rifles. The shotgun gets multiple status procs across pellets, but you pay for it in low damage-per-pellet and often QoL issues with the weapon (ammo economy, slow reload mechanics, slow fire rate to name a few examples). A high fire rate rifle can have the same effect as a 100% status shotgun, albeit, at the cost of ammo economy.

But I do call it like it is: This is without question a nerf to almost all shotguns in the game... from Drakgoon (23%, 4 60/60s, Motup Setup) to Strun Wraith (40%, 3 60/60s).

And with respect to a pellet applying multiple statuses, you'll have to correct me... isn't this the new overstatus (above 100%)? But overstatus will not be achievable on shotguns with high pellet counts (most shotguns). Exergis is the only shotgun I can think of that can reach 100%+ status in the new system (because it only has 3 pellets and therefore a higher per-pellet status... now triple that and mods will make that 100%). Sure, Astila and Arca Plasmor too (1 pellet)... if there are no exceptions made and if you could call these proper shotguns!

Now here's why it's a nerf... if only a fraction of your pellets proc status, that means reduced armor stripping, reduced Slash damage, reduced Gas/Toxin gas damage, reduced Heat damage. So let's take Tigris Prime for example... Currently I could theoretically proc almost all the pellets as Slash (because Slash has a 4x proc priority multiplier over the modded elements). That is to say, nearly 100% of my shot will inflict Slash. Tigris Prime will have 13% pellet status chance in the new system. If I use 4 60/60s, new shotgun savvy, and Motus Setup, Tigris Prime will manage ~56% status chance. So only half of my shot will proc Slash! And it's an awkward shotgun to use to begin with!

It's not a nerf for non-stackable effects though. Just stackable effects!

[0_The_F00l]

5 minutes ago, nslay said:

. So let's take Tigris Prime for example... Currently I could theoretically proc almost all the pellets as Slash (because Slash has a 4x proc priority multiplier over the modded elements). That is to say, nearly 100% of my shot will inflict Slash.

I am again calling you out on this assumption that all your pellets will proc slash, it will be 50% that proc slash per shot theoretically unless you add slash mods or forego a dual status mod for savvy, you would still not be near 100%.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

32 minutes ago, nslay said:

Oh, I'm not complaining... I have my own ideas of how to work around this and I have some strange non-100% hybrid builds that work even in this system!

Okay.

Quote

But I also don't think that this is necessarily currently broken. I do think it's currently horribly inconsistent with how crit per pellet works (and especially horrible for players... you need to know this and then you need a calculator!). To put this into perspective, compare shotguns with multiple low damage pellets to high fire rate rifles. The shotgun gets multiple status procs across pellets, but you pay for it in low damage-per-pellet and often QoL issues with the weapon (ammo economy, slow reload mechanics, slow fire rate to name a few examples). A high fire rate rifle can have the same effect as a 100% status shotgun, albeit, at the cost of ammo economy.

You're joking right?

Soma prime: 12 damage. 15 rounds per second. 180 damage per second. With crit that's 180*1.9 is 342 DPS.

Tigris Prime: 195 damage per pellet. 8 pellets per round. 2 rounds per second. 3120 damage per second. With crit that's 3120*1.2=3744 DPS.

Yes... Shotguns have a slower reload time... Yes once you factor that in their DPS is closer...

 

That's because shotguns and assault rifles are for very different things. Shotguns are for hitting crowds and doing high burst damage. Assault rifles are designed for sustained DPS.

 

Yes they're going to be worse for rapidly peppering a target to strip their armour. That won't matter nearly as much when armor is more reasonable.

 

Quote

But I do call it like I see it: This is without question a nerf to almost all shotguns in the game... from Drakgoon (23%, 4 60/60s, Motup Setup) to Strun Wraith (40%, 3 60/60s).

Again, I have no idea how you can see that when there are so many systems interacting the the vast majority of them are major buffs, with only one of them being possibly a "Nerf".

Quote

And with respect to a pellet applying multiple statuses, you'll have to correct me... isn't this the new overstatus (above 100%)? But overstatus will not be achievable on shotguns with high pellet counts (most shotguns). Exergis is the only shotgun I can think of that can reach 100%+ status in the new system (because it only has 3 pellets and therefore a higher per-pellet status... now triple that and mods will make that 100%). Sure, Astila and Arca Plasmor too (1 pellet)... if there are no exceptions made and if you could call these proper shotguns!

It's not about each pellet applying multiple statuses. If they get hit with multishot or a second pellet the effect can proc a second time and give the secondary effect.  Secondary procs of the nonstacking statuses don't need to be off the same projectile.

 

And yeah, you're right that with any of the weapons on the new system you're going to be getting at most about half the procs you were before, the point is that there are so many ways to take advantage of the other new systems to make your procs more valuable than they were before.

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Now here's why it's a nerf... if only a fraction of your pellets proc status, that means reduced armor stripping, reduced Slash damage, reduced Gas/Toxin gas damage, reduced Heat damage. So let's take Tigris Prime for example... Currently I could theoretically proc almost all the pellets as Slash (because Slash has a 4x proc priority multiplier over the modded elements). That is to say, nearly 100% of my shot will inflict Slash. Tigris Prime will have 13% pellet status chance in the new system. If I use 4 60/60s, new shotgun savvy, and Motus Setup, Tigris Prime will manage ~56% status chance. So only half of my shot will proc Slash! And it's an awkward shotgun to use to begin with!

Or you know... Drop two of the 60/60 mods, and replace them with some extra slash damage and multishot and get back to basically the same place you were before with literally no other changes... And that's off the top of my head... Oh no you've dropped down. To what? Like 45% status chance? But your slash procs are as much as 2.5x as strong depending what you can add in/what your previous build was? You've replaced literally all the lost damage by replacing two mods. Welcome to building shotguns like you build sniper rifles. 👍

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It's not a nerf for non-stackable effects though. Just stackable effects!

I still question if it's even a net nerf for stackable effects to be honest considering how much more like sniper rifles shotguns will now behave for status.

Edited March 3, 2020 by (NSW)Sniperfox47

[nslay]

1 minute ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I am again calling you out on this assumption that all your pellets will proc slash, it will be 50% that proc slash per shot theoretically unless you add slash mods or forego a dual status mod for savvy, you would still not be near 100%.

OK, whatever it is now (because it doesn't mater) ... 50% ... It becomes half that in the new system with every single status mod equipped. Don't like that? Let's pretend the buffed Shotgun Savvy and Motus Setup make this any better alone (they don't interfere with proc priorities right?). With just Motus Setup and Shotgun Savvy, Tigris Prime's new 13% pellet status becomes ~38%. So I went from Live being ... 50% of all pellets being Slash procs ... to new 0.38*0.8 ~ 30% of all pellets being slash procs (the 0.8 is from the fact that 80% of Tigris Prime's damage is Slash).

I mean you can slot Hunter Munitions and try to scrape a couple more pellets? I mean the base crit chance is 10%... For Tigris Prime the new system is bad.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

2 minutes ago, nslay said:

OK, whatever it is now (because it doesn't mater) ... 50% ... It becomes half that in the new system with every single status mod equipped. Don't like that? Let's pretend the buffed Shotgun Savvy and Motus Setup make this any better alone (they don't interfere with proc priorities right?). With just Motus Setup and Shotgun Savvy, Tigris Prime's new 13% pellet status becomes ~38%. So I went from Live being ... 50% of all pellets being Slash procs ... to new 0.38*0.8 ~ 30% of all pellets being slash procs (the 0.8 is from the fact that 80% of Tigris Prime's damage is Slash).

I mean you can slot Hunter Munitions and try to scrape a couple more pellets? I mean the base crit chance is 10%... For Tigris Prime the new system is bad.

Or just stack further slash damage and multishot instead and have 38% of slash pellets that do enough extra damage to balance out... Since you have literally 4 extra slots to spend on it...

Edited March 3, 2020 by (NSW)Sniperfox47

[nslay]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Or just stack further slash damage and multishot instead and have 38% of slash pellets that do enough extra damage to balance out... Since you have literally 4 extra slots to spend on it...

I could use one of those slots to make that magazine larger! Freaking Tigris Prime has a magazine of size 2.

I just got the thing recently too! I won't be able to play with the 100% status builds and experience it for myself.

[0_The_F00l]

38 minutes ago, nslay said:

I could use one of those slots to make that magazine larger! Freaking Tigris Prime has a magazine of size 2.

I just got the thing recently too! I won't be able to play with the 100% status builds and experience it for myself.

It's really not that great unless you put some vicious spread and punch through to cover more enemies, or compensate the reload speed.

Whatever you aim at will very likely be dead, but you will be shooting few things at a time. 

[nslay]

3 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

It's really not that great unless you put some vicious spread and punch through to cover more enemies, or compensate the reload speed.

Whatever you aim at will very likely be dead, but you will be shooting few things at a time. 

And that's still worse than what you can do now considering you could also fit Vicious Spread and also proc Slash on around double the pellets in the current system. You're certainly not putting crit or crit damage on the thing.

The new system is not really great for Tigris Prime. It's a nerf for that shotgun.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

2 hours ago, nslay said:

And that's still worse than what you can do now considering you could also fit Vicious Spread and also proc Slash on around double the pellets in the current system. You're certainly not putting crit or crit damage on the thing.

The new system is not really great for Tigris Prime. It's a nerf for that shotgun.

Again, when it's the difference between "point at it and it's dead in 5 seconds when the slash procs kill it" or "point at it and it's dead now", I don't understand how that's a nerf.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

On 2020-02-29 at 5:53 AM, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

No. Shotguns are staying how they are now, just the UI bug with status chance is being fixed.

 

Shotguns have status chance per pellet, but the UI currently multiplies that by the number of pellets.

 

So a shotgun with 30% status chance and 8 pellets (Tigris Prime) actually has a 3.75% chance of proccing status per pellet. The new system will multiply that by 3 and properly display status chance per pellet. In this case that's 11.25% status chance per pellet.

 

It's worth noting that the current build has a bug that's existed for a long time. If total status chance gets above 100% before multishot (i.e. 12.5% per pellet) it would give every pellet 100% status chance. That's being removed. A gun with 100% status chance total will now have the proper 12.5% chance per pellet.

 

@WhiteMarker they explained it better and in more detail in the devstream.

So all in all, This is a heavy nerf to Tigris prime and any shotgun that was able to reach 100% status chance? Welp #*!%.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

5 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

So all in all, This is a heavy nerf to Tigris prime and any shotgun that was able to reach 100% status chance? Welp #*!%.

Everybody keeps jumping to that conclusion. Don't know how you're getting there. There's going to be a lot of interplay with the other new systems coming out and it may be a net buff.

 

Wait until the content is in your hands, play with the new builds that are possible, and then declare it a "heavy nerf".

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

After the changes, multishot will function the same on every weapon where status is concerned. If you want to know the likelihood of at least one pellet inflicting a status effect, that's something you'll have to math out yourself, because it's not displayed in the UI anymore. The sc displayed is the real sc of each individual pellet, not an average like it is now. Breaking 100sc gives each pellet a corresponding chance to proc additional times, with every additional 100.

Now the one thing that's not entirely clear is whether:

1. the current sc values are being used for the real chance per pellet, and those are being tripled or
2. the current per-pellet sc values are being exposed in the arsenal, and those are being tripled.

Let's use an extreme example. Strun Wraith has 40% sc, or ~4.98% per pellet (according to the wiki). In scenario 1, it will have 112% when tripled. That's a crapload of status for an unmodded weapon and a huge buff to all shotties. But in scenario 2, it will have ~15%. You're going to need 4 dual status and an absolutely bonkers riven to get 100% sc out of a base 15%. Only a few multishot shotguns can achieve that. Strun Wraith, Exergis, Phantasma's alt-fire... Maybe Sobek? Its status isn't great, but its pellet count is low, so the chance per pellet is actually higher than Strun Wraith's.

Steve claims that the changes will ultimately be a buff for shotguns because of the other mechanics being added, particularly overproc (my pet name for additional procs over 100% sc). But if scenario 2 is true, then no shotgun under 15% per-pellet sc and 5/5 dispo can achieve 100%, so they will not benefit from these mechanics. This seems to suggest that they are implementing scenario 1. But that is so incredibly powerful that it's hard to fathom that's their real intention.

Now it's important to note that they discussed another new mechanic in the devstream. Consecutive procs will improve the effects of existing procs. Viral will stack multiplicatively (most of you probably don't remember it working this way four years ago, it was pretty insane with slash), DOTs will increase and refresh, proc effects like impact will ramp up, etc. I believe this is what Steve meant when he said that ultimately shotguns will be more effective. They will be able to amp a lot of status effects at once. Without more details on this mechanic, it's hard to know if that's an accurate prediction.

tl;dr: We need clarification from DE. Some details are fuzzy.

[nslay]

35 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

Now it's important to note that they discussed another new mechanic in the devstream. Consecutive procs will improve the effects of existing procs. Viral will stack multiplicatively (most of you probably don't remember it working this way four years ago, it was pretty insane with slash), DOTs will increase and refresh, proc effects like impact will ramp up, etc. I believe this is what Steve meant when he said that ultimately shotguns will be more effective. They will be able to amp a lot of status effects at once. Without more details on this mechanic, it's hard to know if that's an accurate prediction.

If that's true, then nerfing status shotguns is necessary to maintain balance. Can't be getting, say, 22 guaranteed status procs in one shot if they can amp each other up.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

3 minutes ago, nslay said:

If that's true, then nerfing status shotguns is necessary to maintain balance. Can't be getting, say, 22 guaranteed status procs in one shot if they can amp each other up.

Well, that's the thing. For the purpose of DOTs, proc amping doesn't change the amount of damage you're doing, at least the amped effects they've described. Reducing the procs dealt per shot is a reduction in DOT damage over what you're currently dealing. In the case of stacking viral, I can understand it. But from what they've described, that's the only case where 100% sc with 40 pellets might be overpowered. In all other known cases, it's a reduction in effectiveness.

That's why I want clarification. From what they've told us, the natural interpretation is that shotguns will be less effective than currently, not "balanced" with the new normal. If status-based automatic weapons proc more status/sec, and handle better, then what's the value of a shotgun? Just raw damage?

Maybe I'm wrong and shotguns will retain their station in the new norm. Hell, maybe a shotgun nerf isn't really that big of a deal. Guess we'll find out soon enough. Worst-case scenario, DE can x6 shotgun status instead of x3.

[RX-3DR]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

That's why I want clarification. From what they've told us, the natural interpretation is that shotguns will be less effective than currently, not "balanced" with the new normal. If status-based automatic weapons proc more status/sec, and handle better, then what's the value of a shotgun? Just raw damage?

Maybe I'm wrong and shotguns will retain their station in the new norm. Hell, maybe a shotgun nerf isn't really that big of a deal. Guess we'll find out soon enough. Worst-case scenario, DE can x6 shotgun status instead of x3.

Have you used a conventional rifle recently? As far as weapon performance goes, even without 100% Status Chance, shotguns are very competitive against their single pellet counterparts. If your comparison with the "normal" is comparing with the outliers way too far ahead, then 90% of weapons are not balanced to begin with. It's an overall buff if you ask me, opening them for significantly more versatility over their already good performance over rifles. If you've built your shotguns to be an all-rounded weapon with things like Reload Speed and Magazine Size, you're getting a straight status chance buff. If you're annoyed having to obsess over 100% status chance, you no longer need to shoehorn your build to revolve around hitting that ridiculous breakpoint. The only thing getting hit, is trying to force Shotguns to keep up with the absolute meta weapons, which doesn't really matter because you can just move on back to those meta weapons.

It's essentially the melee changes, except on a much smaller scale. General performance sees a lot of good increase in base functionality and versatility. Only the extreme meta chasing takes a hit.

Edited March 3, 2020 by RX-3DR

[Ploidz]

Is DE crew explaining further and talking with the community about this? I follow Steve on twitter, but I hardly use it and lately mine has been flooded with Devolver Digital spam (though it's funny stuff). It doesn't seem like Shotguns will be able to easily hit that 100% + to make use of the new status over 100 addition, unless a lot of shotguns will be over the x3 status buff.

I spent so much plat, and resources into Phantasma, I can't do anything but status on it, it has nearly nonexistent crit chance (3%). Waiting on this update to see the info for myself seems like an eternity.

[-Kittens-]

2 hours ago, ShadowExodus said:

So all in all, This is a heavy nerf to Tigris prime and any shotgun that was able to reach 100% status chance? Welp #*!%.

Rebecca didn't pick a Corinth by accident. If she'd picked the TP, the chat would have gone thermonuclear.

[-Kittens-]

14 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Have you used a conventional rifle recently? As far as weapon performance goes, even without 100% Status Chance, shotguns are very competitive against their single pellet counterparts. If your comparison with the "normal" is comparing with the outliers way too far ahead, then 90% of weapons are not balanced to begin with. It's an overall buff if you ask me, opening them for significantly more versatility over their already good performance over rifles. If you've built your shotguns to be an all-rounded weapon with things like Reload Speed and Magazine Size, you're getting a straight status chance buff. If you're annoyed having to obsess over 100% status chance, you no longer need to shoehorn your build to revolve around hitting that ridiculous breakpoint. The only thing getting hit, is trying to force Shotguns to keep up with the absolute meta weapons, which doesn't really matter because you can just move on back to those meta weapons.

It's essentially the melee changes, except on a much smaller scale. General performance sees a lot of good increase in base functionality and versatility. Only the extreme meta chasing takes a hit.

That's a cool story or whatever but the Kuva Brakk and Tigris Prime were built specifically to chase the meta to begin with.

[-Kittens-]

53 minutes ago, nslay said:

If that's true, then nerfing status shotguns is necessary to maintain balance. Can't be getting, say, 22 guaranteed status procs in one shot if they can amp each other up.

Except the Auditor Lich Exergis and Corinth Prime will do exactly that. You can already see where this is heading.