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RNG is whack


Pudding88
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I've done about 20 relic runs about 6 of them are radiant. I have never NEVER gotten a gold drop??????? Is rng that whack or game just hates me? I don't understand how, everyone around me got gold drops but I have never gotten 1 since comming back to the game about a month ago.

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You simply don't understand RNG. It is random after all and running something X times is no guarantee of anything. Your last roll has no affect on your next one.

Are you running radiant groups or radiant solo? If solo, you're doing it wrong for maximizing your chances.

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32 minutes ago, Mommy said:

ive run groups of radiant relics for banshee prime systems, 4rad relics per person and nobody got it. 13/16 drops were bronze which really got me salted to a new level.

Bit silly for me to be posting this at 3:00~ am-ish, but i need some fuming after one head-ache occurred for me over a certain birthday present last year apparently was never activated at all when i decided to use it today...

This is kind of why i will keep saying it over and over, Fissure system needs a redesign.

  • The relic sharing system currently promotes the idea of running in full groups, everyone using the same relic and on the same refinement level to maximize odds, which means you have 4 people, all using 1 relic each or basically 4 relics at once just to roll what is effective 4 dice and hope it lands on one particular number, So everyone can point at that die to get that item from the rewards corner. For frocks sake, just remove the relic sharing, no one cares about what everyone else brings and they always get 3 rolls with either no dupe can be rolled or only up to 2 can be the same while the 3rd must always be something else. Creates a way to allow more rolls to occur, without reliance on `baggage` for odds.

 

  • Void trace gain rate needs to be boosted a whole lot so people can just earn them just by naturally farming stuff, If others are present, make everyone get bonus traces, not this pick yer item to get a 5 flat bonus, which is even worst then the 6-30 void trace gain per rotation, since its not like it gets multipied by modifiers for all i know and unless you roll the silver/gold parts often or forma often or the specific part people are chasing, its never fun civ to farm traces while relying on the current pick bonus. Not to mention it takes between 4 rounds (of 4 25s or similar combination) at the best odds and the worst taking a whooping 17 rounds just to get 100 traces for a single relic radiant, Because tier 2 and tier 3 refinement ALSO needs to go and means little vs just either not rolling for bronze parts or putting in 100 traces for the maximum odds for a silver or gold part.

 

  • Plus lets not even forget about the rate of acquring relics vs the rate of opening them. Thing needs to be more integrated into normal gameplay since its part of the annoying b.s. known as island content where you cannot really chase after much else, besides common resources (maybe argon crystals if you luck on void map, fissure missions), but it honestly needs to be updated to feel more like a riven challenge system. Something you could easily do in regular gameplay, just by equipping them and doing other stuff like resource farming, affinity grinding, killing bosses and etc. etc.

If D.E. actually updated the system, especially with that first idea i suggested, the burnout could be drastically reduced so people could get less frustrated over rolling junk items, when they could easily do the grind by getting a dozen or so relics and just enjoy a nice round of fissure survival, listening to smooth music and just do it solo so they have less worry. Namely since people would not be spliting up and causing enemies to be spread out and make the reactants all over the map and unless someone marks them, then you wont know about reactants on different rooms, Which stacks more annoyance on top of people who just leave after single relic openings, regardless of the outcome and it happens so often, it just burns one-self out further on just wanting a rare part but they keep looping a annoying cycle, no matter how much prep work they do in advance to get the prime part supposedly easy.

....Course but all honestly, i would also want them to update the endless fissure bonus to some proper effects and include a rare drop booster that raises the odds of getting the rarer parts of the relic for each rotation you go on for a endless fissure until the odds are something like 40~50% to get the rare part from your relics, after a dozen or so rounds into the fissure...but thats just me wanting REAL scaling rewards put into warframe`s gameplay loop.

Edited by Avienas
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RNG is inherently wack, yes, but relics are designed as group content to maximize your chances. You should be forming a team of 4 people all using the same relics to greatly increase your chances of getting the drop you want. 

Token systems are infinitely better, but DE has only barely started scratching the surface of using those.

Edited by (PS4)Ozymandias-13-
typo
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Sometimes the game just hates you. I ran nearly 30 relics for Tigris Prime parts recently and only got 1. I then ran some relics with one of my clan mates for the BP itself (only he had those relics). All were radiant and it took 9 rounds of Interception before it finally dropped. We also had the inevitable 4 rads giving 3 formas during that run.

My clan mate is convinced I'm cursed when it comes to drops in this game 😂

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On 2020-02-29 at 3:03 PM, Pudding88 said:

I've done about 20 relic runs about 6 of them are radiant. I have never NEVER gotten a gold drop??????? Is rng that whack or game just hates me? I don't understand how, everyone around me got gold drops but I have never gotten 1 since comming back to the game about a month ago.

That's not uncommon...
In fact in 6 radiant relics being opened only has a 46.8559% chance of getting a rare...so basically slightly less common than flipping a coin and landing the side you want.  That makes it pretty damn easy to never get a gold drop yourself.

In fact to get a 90% chance of seeing a gold reward drop from a relic you need to go through 22 radiant relics.
If you want a 99% chance of seeing a gold reward you need to go through 44 radiant relics.
In a full rad share this means between 6 and 11 runs and you should expect to see a gold item drop from someone in the squad.  It is still no guarantee that it'll drop..but its the expected chance of it dropping.

To figure out your expected chances of getting the rare item from a relic just use this formula:
1 - <chance of not getting a rare> ^ <how many relics>
For example with a radiant relic that has a 10% chance of getting the rare item its:
1 - 0.9 ^ <how many relics>
If you plug in 22 you get 90% chance of seeing a rare item, if you plug in 44 you get a 99% chance of seeing a rare item.

It is still no means a guarantee that you'll see a rare item in the run.  After all each and every reward chance is completely independent of each other and has absolutely no effect on the other rolls.  Its entirely possible to open 100 radiant relics and never hit that 10% chance of seeing the rare item.  The chance of that happening is very small...but still entirely possible.

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58 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

RNG is inherently wack, yes, but relics are designed as group content to maximize your chances. You should be forming a team of 4 people all using the same relics to greatly increase your chances of getting the drop you want.

Try to read my post above yours, the team of 4 does not work with its sharing system cause it relies on everyone using the same relic because relic sharing exists, not that relic sharing boosts the rate but forces people for that better rate. Its quite literally a system that demands that 4 people all carry large stocks of X relic to gurantee odds, but to expect everyone to carry multiple copies of the same relic that a single person did not divy out personally, on top of refining them all to be radiant, it quite literally makes it more tedious then it should be to just get a single specific part.

Not to mention, if people just want to stock up on forma and ducats, they have to quite literally be doing what the void key system is if they decided to solo farm it instead, So it sheets on players who run groups of 2-3 or even just want to solo farm. Because that stupid what-if bit exists and will constantly make people want to run full on public groups, not because it makes trace gain or part hunting easier, but because everyone is conditioned into using that system, despite being forced to reset almost every single round due to the fact fissures have to be stuck on a rng-sus system with no benefits to doing different tiers at all except more annoying enemies to deal with.

...So yeah, RNG is whack, but the system around fissures itself is whack with RNG-sus on the missions, RNG-sus to stock the relics, RNG-sus on the traces, RNG-sus on the crew you want when farming stuff or chasing specific parts, RNG-sus on the enemy corruptions & reactant drops and RNG-sus to get what you want, for a grand total of 6 Freaking RNG-sus systems, compared to how void key was just 2 RNG-sus in general. No random missions, No need to care about what your team-mates are like(especially those who split up and spread out reactants), etc. etc., Just pure and simple focus to chase what you want and you could bleed yer key as long as you want for a mission and get likely more then a single part off of just one single key.

58 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

Token systems are infinitely better, but DE has only barely started scratching the surface of using those.

Having D.E. put a token system into fissures would probably be a bit too extreme considering how utterly broken it could be used, if it was not kept to some kind of burn 5 radiant relics to get X part of your choice from the relic, kind of b.s. exchange rate. Since i think no one would enjoy another tedious currency where it could also be abused by stock-piling tokens by spamming junk relics of a specific tier and then use them to YEET the part you want from a relic you cant seem to get much stock of.

Kind of why how i see plenty of systems on warframe, the system overall should get a simplification of its design and YEET`ing of frustrating elements, before D.E. just straight up breaks another part of warframe by putting in something that becomes utterly latched on so much, that we get more repeats of the condition overload & blood rush `nerfs` and the now recent `chroma nerf` that some people are cry-babying about, because they cant stand still long enough to take damage to build vex armor stacks, when they rather just get the buff instantaneously. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

Token systems are infinitely better, but DE has only barely started scratching the surface of using those.

The biggest reason I don't see the token system coming from DE is that they don't want players to be able to stockpile a bunch of tokens and then just grab the new primes that come out without ever having to touch those prime relics.
DE has been fighting against player stockpiling for a long time, I don't think they'll give an easy method to do it.

Unless you want to have a bunch of different tokens of "Oh I have 20 Axi A2 tokens, 10 Axi V9 tokens...." and so on.

The other possibility is just a constant increasing of token prices to get items...and wouldn't it be great to have a new prime frame comes out with a single part that costs 500 tokens?  And the one after that is closer to 700?  Just because DE doesn't want a never-ending player stockpile allowing them to mostly ignore gameplay.

5 hours ago, Avienas said:
  • The relic sharing system currently promotes the idea of running in full groups, everyone using the same relic and on the same refinement level to maximize odds, which means you have 4 people, all using 1 relic each or basically 4 relics at once just to roll what is effective 4 dice and hope it lands on one particular number, So everyone can point at that die to get that item from the rewards corner. For frocks sake, just remove the relic sharing, no one cares about what everyone else brings and they always get 3 rolls with either no dupe can be rolled or only up to 2 can be the same while the 3rd must always be something else. Creates a way to allow more rolls to occur, without reliance on `baggage` for odds.

I'm sorry but I have to heavily disagree with this point..because this means that I can't share a vaulted relic with some friends anymore as they simply wouldn't have a chance to select the reward from the relic that I'm bringing. (and yes I have more than enough vaulted radiant relics that my friends will eventually get the rare item from said relic)

That would be a major blow against the system.
Further relics were made to encourage group play...and you want to remove that just because?  Why?  What do you have against group play?

Edited by Tsukinoki
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33 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Unless you want to have a bunch of different tokens of "Oh I have 20 Axi A2 tokens, 10 Axi V9 tokens...." and so on

This is exactly how I was imagine it working.

Relics would still be associated with the specific parts, but not drop those parts directly. Instead they would drop Token quantities associated with the current Common, Uncommon, or Rare drop chances so lucky players can still benefit, but unlucky players aren't driven to gouge their eyes out.

Example:

Meso N9 Relic.

4 players bring the same relic. 2 scenarios.

  1. Each one unlocked the common slot, worth 1 token (for example) so they all are rewarded with the total of 4 Meso N9 Tokens which might be enough for a common Meso N9 Part.
  2. 2 players unlocked the common slot (worth 1 each), one got the uncommon (worth 5), and one got the rare one (worth 10), so they all are rewarded 17 Meso N9 Tokens.

Players would still have to save up enough tokens from a specific relic in order to collect all of the parts in it, but with a clear end in sight even if DE decides that Nikondi Prime Handle costs 100 Meso N9 Tokens. So it's still going to need some grind (which DE depends on), but much of the RNG harshness is removed so players are rewarded for effort rather than by Lady Luck. This also still rewards players for playing together in a co-op game, and still allows soloing for those people that want to. And having unique tokens keeps players from hoarding tokens to instantly get brand new stuff.

 

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34 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

I'm sorry but I have to heavily disagree with this point..because this means that I can't share a vaulted relic with some friends anymore as they simply wouldn't have a chance to select the reward from the relic that I'm bringing. (and yes I have more than enough vaulted radiant relics that my friends will eventually get the rare item from said relic).

Simply make it so everyone gets a stand alone 3 roll system with boosted odds by doing said relic on a later round of that endless mission. With a bonus to void trace gain that would also scale in gain rate on top of the base void trace gain per round would be more favorable. More void trace gain in general= better civ, More void trace gain for EVERYONE in the group= better civ. This would make a better incentive for FRIENDS to enjoy a fissure run because everyone benefits on bigger void trace gains and the old void key incentive would be revived to run deeper to get an EXTRA scaling bonus on top of the relic refinement, with more and more void traces gained on each round, would mean everyone could up-keep on continuing to refine relics mid-mission to keep the radiant party RAINING on still.

34 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

That would be a major blow against the system.
Further relics were made to encourage group play...and you want to remove that just because?  Why?  What do you have against group play?

They were not made to encourage group play, it was D.E.`s lazy way to not have to pad void tower`s void key map`s reward pool with more prime items or put them in earlier rotations which would result in being easier to always get prime stuff on the old void key system.. Its basically a fine example of presenting what looks like a good idea but once you do a careful review o scrunity on it, you realize how much more of a pain it is, then the old system. Sure, Void was not exactly a easy region cause of the mixed enemies and +200% damage modifier bonus. But the VOID was the end-game back in the void-key era and people learned to optimize builds & party up with people to reap those loots.

Now its pretty much just volts & map nuking yeets or so on and so on to just farm thru parts and give zero fks about everyone else, long as they pick the same relic as you when your after a certain part and oust anyone who does not bring the same relic or instantly disband if not a single person rolls a silver, or a forma or a gold part on the first reward rotation at all. Know what people did on void keys? They would try for another go on the 2nd or 3rd drop pool then just instantly disband in one round. Especially when the item was on a rotation C and people wanted to make that void key actually yield something instead of just giving up on the first opp of the loot table.

So ultimately, Void FISSURE system is another fine example of D.E. releasing a system that should of had alot more to it and should of got improvements on the first few months of its release, but instead was left alone like so many other systems and people likely did not care much at the time, Cause warframe was in such good graces as a simple, small company game project, that was likely expected to not last that long and they got to skirt away with a full on f2p and very social community, when it did not have a whole lot of toxic elements yet (riven mods) not present and it was a fun game to just mess around in since one did not have to concern about too many details just to `be good in existing content.`

I mean, ,since i see you have been around since 2013, how much of a pain in the arse would you say warframe was like in the earlier years, way before we had open world, riven mods and raids were still present and our ACTUAL end game?

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50 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Unless you want to have a bunch of different tokens of "Oh I have 20 Axi A2 tokens, 10 Axi V9 tokens...."

Further relics were made to encourage group play...and you want to remove that just because?  Why?  What do you have against group play?

Sorry for the partial clipping. But hypothetically, and I stress hypothetically, turning relics into tokens, making those tokens give guaranteed rewards once opened, and the reward given based on how many void traces are fed into the token, could work as a replacement.

But only if fissures themselves are changed to be like rivens like this thread suggested, and with heavy changes to relic acquisition methods.

Also in general some individuals hate group play mechanics because they don’t make playing in groups fun, just makes playing solo miserable. It’s a difficult thing to balance.

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