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So they fixing the armor scaling but our damage remains the same?


ForsakenCrusader
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Don't get me wrong im all for a more balanced gameplay and thank got they start fixing it but if they going to fix the enemy armor scaling problem they really need to reduce our damage too, WF is a rwally easy game and just imagine how much easier it will be after next mainline we will be mowing through enemies at much higher lvl than now way easier, this is going to be a joke :/

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Yeah. It seems a little weird for our damage to not be reduced a bit considering that the players don't really stop instant killing enemies until around level 110-120 with maxed out mods and good weapons.

I was planning on making a new account to test out the new curve with no forma or mods to speak of and see if it felt better. Maybe this is just an early stage of difficulty reworks for them to first bring the enemies in line and then scale the players down a bit.

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Give it some time to see how the new enemy's armor/shield gating data accumulate  and fares against player unstoppable firepower. Just a thought on how you can't balance damage against untested armor/shield gating.

Or are you suggesting the other way around of nerffing Players to oblivion then use that as a starting point to balance enemy durability?

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6 minutes ago, LoveNot said:

Give it some time to see how the new enemy's armor/shield gating data accumulate  and fares against player unstoppable firepower. Just a thought on how you can't balance damage against untested armor/shield gating.

Or are you suggesting the other way around of nerffing Players to oblivion then use that as a starting point to balance enemy durability?

What do u mean by testing? we will litterally be one shotting enemies at much higher lvl now than before since armor scaling is being reduced while our damage remains the same shield gating inst going to change that, also shield gating only applies to corpus for the most part. 

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20 minutes ago, ForsakenCrusader said:

Don't get me wrong im all for a more balanced gameplay and thank got they start fixing it but if they going to fix the enemy armor scaling problem they really need to reduce our damage too, WF is a rwally easy game and just imagine how much easier it will be after next mainline we will be mowing through enemies at much higher lvl than now way easier, this is going to be a joke 😕

Don't worry, you'll still be one shot by lvl 90+ Grineer carrying Kraken or Marelok, even sooner if you're using a Warframe with under 300 base armor.

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Just now, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

They also said that regular health will be buffed, & since enemy final armor = health*armor multiplier, it could mean that enemies will still be pretty beefy

I really doubt that cuz what  makes enemies hard to kill is the armor not the health.

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Just now, ForsakenCrusader said:

I really doubt that cuz what  makes enemies hard to kill is the armor not the health.

They still have a lot of armour. Bombards will still have some 94% damage reduction. The extra 10 levels adds just 2% damage reduction. What makes them so beefy is the fact that both scale at the same time. If you don't believe me, consider that Veil enemies have the same amount of armour as regular enemies.

But, honestly, I predicted something like this would happen. Warframe's damage problem has been stuck in a catch 22 for as long as the problem has existed. Something had to be done, but there was always going to be a problem when they did it. Believe me when I say that it is better to bite the bullet and start making changes than leaving it to sabotage more content drops.

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Just now, ForsakenCrusader said:

They also reducing the aimbot the enemies have so they making things even easier lol.

Sure, but 10-20 grineer spamming gunfire from every corner of the map with hitscan weapons. Not making it that much easier, plus Bombard snipers have heatseekers. Game isn't easy by any means after a certain point, you need specific Warframes, builds and comps to make it...unless you abuse Nidus, Revenant or Ivara. 
I think what we really need to address is the lack of mission difficulty options in the menu, when selecting a mission. I want to start off with lvl 200 enemies, not have to play an hour to get there.

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Can you not equate enemy levels with challenge for crying out loud? There is no skill involved regardless of how long it takes to kill an enemy. If you had said that enemies need to live much longer in order for DE to implement actual enemy tactics that have an effect on combat, I'd have agreed. But as it is right now, the only difference in enemy levels that changes the game is enemy damage, which they said they'll barely touch, and only at high levels a little.

This means once the once shots become real players are forced to flip flop around like maniacs to keep that DR and accuracy debuff going, while at the same time whaling away at enemies for 10 seconds. That isn't challenge either, it actually reduces opportunities for challenging gameplay to occur.

Yes, enemies need to life longer. No, them living longer alone does not make the game more challenging. It makes it less challenging I'd even say.

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I am of the opinion that they should :

remove serration like mods (and make damage scale with Levelling) and severely reduce mods that provide base damage increase. 

Make multishot do reduced damage per pellet/ take ammo from max ammo pool. 

Have elemental damage replace base damage instead of stack on top of it as a multiplier. 

 

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27 minutes ago, ForsakenCrusader said:

I really doubt that cuz what  makes enemies hard to kill is the armor not the health.

Which is why they will increase enemy health

I told you that the formula to calculate enemy armor is a multiplication of their health, so increasing health will incrementally increase armor

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33 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

They also said that regular health will be buffed, & since enemy final armor = health*armor multiplier, it could mean that enemies will still be pretty beefy

Only way that would work is having Railjack Grineer’s level of Base Health.

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Just now, GPrime96 said:

Only way that would work is having Railjack Grineer’s level of Base Health.

Well they already buffed critical chance mods way more than we anticipated, & now status mods will get a x3 buff

Health being increased by 5 or even 10 wouldn't surprise me

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I would rather they start increasing enemy damage and creating more powerful boss-like units, rather than toning our damage down to compensate for the changes to enemy defenses.

Invulnerable bullet sponges are not fun.

Aimbot oneshots are not fun.

Powerful, telegraphed attacks that require awareness, reaction time, and mechanical skill to avoid dying to? Enemies that are tough, but with good aim and knowledge of their defenses, you can take them out handily? That's fun. Give me Monster Hunter, DE.

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1 hour ago, Ikusi_Prime said:

 

Powerful, telegraphed attacks that require awareness, reaction time, and mechanical skill to avoid dying to? Enemies that are tough, but with good aim and knowledge of their defenses, you can take them out handily? That's fun. Give me Monster Hunter, DE.

 

This.

We already have several enemy attacks that can be avoided but more is needed. Adding grenade indicators is great but enemies need more ways to stop the player and expose them to danger.

 

Nobody likes get 1 shot but if you run into some corpus death beam that the enemies set up then it's not really anyone's fault but yours. Make certain enemy types actually threatening instead of just adding more enemies that are immune to abilities or damage (comba/scrambus/prosectuor)

 

Index enemies are a perfect example of the Ai using extra deployables to try to kill the player. Teleport pads/mines/vortex grenades/energy barriers. Why aren't these things in normal missions? Every single Index enemy has a special trick that the player can avoid if they play smart and move quickly.

Edited by zakaryx
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15 minutes ago, zakaryx said:

Index enemies are a perfect example of the Ai using extra deployables to try to kill the player. Teleport pads/mines/vortex grenades/energy barriers. Why aren't these things in normal missions? Every single Index enemy has a special trick that the player can avoid if they play smart and move quickly.

Closest Corpus to these are the Orb Vallis ones as Elite Units. Although they scale up the damage and lvl so fast (lvl 130+ in 15 Mins of full Alerts), it lowers Frame’s Selection. 

Edited by GPrime96
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Yes if damage is reduced this already provides harder game play. But most Warframe players want harder content but not the ability to die. So this concept makes sense but players are not about it. lol Can never be fixed because of God abilities that counter the mechanics of balancing.

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Let's see how it goes.

If everyone is one-shotting level 100 grineer with unforma'd weapons and no corrosive projection than something is wrong.

Will be able to test easily since I might have lich territories with level 100 grineer.

Edited by Redfeather75
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Maybe it'll work out to where most of the time Serration, Split Chamber, etc isn't always necessary on every gun all the time. This way we could add stuff like bigger magazines and reload speed to make the guns feel better to use and still have similar performance against the enemies.

Just because you can overkill something 100x, doesn't mean you have to. Of course, this is just speculation. It might work out differently in the end.

I'm just speaking for general play, not extremely high-end.

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4 hours ago, Ikusi_Prime said:

Powerful, telegraphed attacks that require awareness, reaction time, and mechanical skill to avoid dying to? Enemies that are tough, but with good aim and knowledge of their defenses, you can take them out handily? That's fun. Give me Monster Hunter, DE.

That isn't fun.. That is boring and predictable and yet people still struggle with it for the same reason they get killed many times.. Lack of situational awareness.

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