DE to lower Railjack investment? Why? Nobody playing it?

[3rdpig]

1. Required way too many resources and time grinding.
2. Building the drydock was a PITA.
3. It was buggier than an abandoned trailer park in Florida.
4. The only way to play solo is to hide your super battleship and fly out in your archwing, take over crewships, destroy fighters, fly back to railjack and end mission. Wash, rinse, repeat. Boring!
5. Building a railjack and letting Pugs into it was and is a mistake.
6. A super battleship, incredibly advanced yet it has no built in fire supression system? Instead the engineer has to rush around with a hand held fire extinguisher? Bwahahahahahahaha! How about "NO!".

I could go on, but that's more than enough for me to abandon it just a week or two after building my super battleship out of tissue paper, scotch tape and super glue.
 

[OniDax]

Trials weren't popular. What made them think another teamwork-dependent mode would be popular? Maybe they shouldn't have designed Railjack the way they did. Maybe if it was more Battlefront (straightforward, immersive, multi-objective-based space combat mode) and less Bridge Commander/whatever other crew simulator Railjack is based on, then more people would play it.

On 2020-03-02 at 7:28 AM, White_Matter said:

Not sure if bringing in more players will liven it up. Especially in the long run. Like most of the games content, it burns out really fast because there is no sustainability. It is a niche game mod that comes to an end once you get a few MK3 stuff and upgrade your RJ. There is literally no incentive to play after that.

The only way RJ will be viable is if it somehow is intergrated in to the core gameplay. Other wise given it's limited content and detachment from the main game, it will join the graveyard of good concepts executed poorly. Which is pretty sad because I initially loved RJ.

Bringing in more players will liven it up, because, yes, it burns out really fast. Why? Because it's not fun. If people are only playing for the Mk3 stuff and unlocking Veil Proxima and quitting afterwards, then it's obviously not fun enough to motivate them to keep playing. And that's certainly the case for me. Empyrean, imo, is boring. It's not fun space combat gameplay. It doesn't matter how easy or hard it is to get resources. The mode itself is still boring, imo. Until DE provides some (imo) proper space combat gameplay (i.e. Battlefront 2 with its diverse ship classes and hero ships), space gameplay in Warframe will continue to be something that is played for a short while before being abandoned.

Edited March 3, 2020 by TheGildedOni

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

"Rj is end game guys it's for the vets it's challenging different and requires skill and time"

 

* 3-4 updates later *

"err we saw only veterans really had rj and we want it to be accessible to the average player. Sorry lol"

No I'm not upset at them doing this because it's des agenda release said grind. Nerf grind for those who haven't done it. Invalidate the time of those who invested in rj early. 

(I'm happy more people are accessible to rj but for those who you told we needed to grind it out and such all were getting is some of the resources back and some rush drones.?)

At this point most people who play rj have a pretty decent setup so if we already have most of our nice parts it holds no use. Yeah I'm glad they are refunding the resources but they knew it shouldn't have been this expensive to begin with. 

They set thesemselves up for failure but it's de can't expect too much 

[SenorClipClop]

On 2020-03-01 at 2:13 PM, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

I mean why was it taylored just towards veterans?

I'm guessing you missed the hundreds of people making threads/videos/etc every day for over a year, all screeching "we need content for veterans" with increasing vitriol.

It baffles me how players ask for something from the devs, then get all miffed and call it a weird move when the devs give the players what they ask for.

[(XBOX)Ancient Mutt]

It's not just the Railjack completion statistics that are the issue though. My husband pointed out the statistics in the Xbox Achievements... 

https://www.trueachievements.com/game/Warframe/achievements

It's worth a look because it kinda shows where the game bleeds its player base. Also, we noticed that a heck of a lot of players at the game's release are now nowhere to be seen.

Basically, Warframe's had its 15 minutes of fame and now it's falling into the mediocrity amongst most 'indie' games. It's a shame but I think they're flogging a dead horse.

[KCToxic]

They definitely realized they can't create a gamemode aimed towards veterans and then create a community operation aimed towards the whole community playing that gamemode and expect it to work out. Too few hosted games for the number of people wanting to get into it for the event. 

[Kaotyke]

18 minutes ago, KCToxic said:

They definitely realized they can't create a gamemode aimed towards veterans and then create a community operation aimed towards the whole community playing that gamemode and expect it to work out. Too few hosted games for the number of people wanting to get into it for the event. 

You know what this made me realize? All those people asking for "Content for Veterans" finnaly got something that would gate them from the rest of the playerbase and what did DE notice? Its not a significant number of people. At least, not enough for them keep the Railjack building costs and move forward in future content.

The people who ask for content "For Veterans" will now have a solid brick thrown in their faces saying "You are not a prority. Now sit down and we might consider something for you in the future".

[KCToxic]

14 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

You know what this made me realize? All those people asking for "Content for Veterans" finnaly got something that would gate them from the rest of the playerbase and what did DE notice? Its not a significant number of people. At least, not enough for them keep the Railjack building costs and move forward in future content.

The people who ask for content "For Veterans" will now have a solid brick thrown in their faces saying "You are not a prority. Now sit down and we might consider something for you in the future".

Yeah it's not really enough people to sustain Railjack enough for it to be worth putting any more effort into when just locked into the veteran players. 

Personally I don't mind it opening up because I don't really feel it's good "veteran content" anyway. In its current state it's a variety-less mode where every mission from Earth to the Veil plays exactly the same with the only difference being the addition of higher numbers to beat and a handful of mostly identical side objectives. 

[Chicken-Biryani]

3 hours ago, KCToxic said:

Yeah it's not really enough people to sustain Railjack enough for it to be worth putting any more effort into when just locked into the veteran players. 

Truth be told most people just don't wanna pilot a space slug. The classic side of the game has a unique charm that railjack can never give me. Also, the day they said that "looking for drops and resources all over the huge railjack maps was engaging and worthwhile etc etc" was the day I decided that I will never play it even if it was the only type of mission left in the game. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by --C--Nehra

[marelooke]

7 hours ago, 3rdpig said:

1. Required way too many resources and time grinding.
2. Building the drydock was a PITA.
3. It was buggier than an abandoned trailer park in Florida.
4. The only way to play solo is to hide your super battleship and fly out in your archwing, take over crewships, destroy fighters, fly back to railjack and end mission. Wash, rinse, repeat. Boring!
5. Building a railjack and letting Pugs into it was and is a mistake.
6. A super battleship, incredibly advanced yet it has no built in fire supression system? Instead the engineer has to rush around with a hand held fire extinguisher? Bwahahahahahahaha! How about "NO!".

I could go on, but that's more than enough for me to abandon it just a week or two after building my super battleship out of tissue paper, scotch tape and super glue.
 

Is #4 fixed now? Because as long as that's not fixed I'm just going to ignore RailJack.

As for #5, well, having to coordinate anything with PUGs tends to not exactly be fun, it generally leads to frustration sooner or later and the usual vitriol that tends to go with it.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

7 hours ago, 3rdpig said:

built in fire supression system?

You know, why would it need one. Fire needs oxygen, do Warframes need oxygen to breathe?  do they have lungs? The Warframe stamina bar is clearly gone so therefore RJ clearly needs no oxygen.. so why is there fire again? 

[Kaotyke]

15 minutes ago, marelooke said:

Is #4 fixed now? Because as long as that's not fixed I'm just going to ignore RailJack.

As for #5, well, having to coordinate anything with PUGs tends to not exactly be fun, it generally leads to frustration sooner or later and the usual vitriol that tends to go with it.

It's the same as trying a Warframe without mods. Get at least a Bulkhead in the ship and you can do Earth missions so you can start farming the Avionics.

Hell, if you are in a clan with research done you can just farm the 1st Earth mission for resourcesto get the strongest Clan Armaments and Components before even leaving Earth.

People who keep saying they must enter Crewships must not be well informed, because hitting the engines with the Artillery now can OHK even Veil Crewships.

"Coordinate"? Unless you are dealing with people who have no idea on what to do, all missions in PUGs play exactly like normal missions: people are silent and doing what needs to be done to complete the mission, be it piloting, Manning the turrets, using the Forge or going to objectives.

[VanFanel1980mx]

I don't play it because I like to play Solo but the later missions are nearly impossible without a crew, being a pilot has everyone judging your every move even if they don't say it, boarding is annoying because even the Amesha can be melted in a second, being a gunner is a mess because leading your shots sometimes doesn't seem to be enough, the only way you can even remotely do something is babysitting the ship from the inside but randos won't trust you enough and continuously abandon their posts to do the repairs instead of letting you do it, only because you took a full extra second to fix that other hull breach.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

I do not think the costs to build a railjack for the average player is that bad. If ypu have the index unlocked a average player can make millions of credits off it.

I do think repair costs and enemy scaling needs further nerfs.  And the rng of getting key components for ones ship are really bad. Things like zekti hyperstrike need better drop rates.

Atm the system is ok.  But needs more polish.

Edited March 4, 2020 by (PS4)Kakurine2

[Fran_Bow_Dagenhart]

Yeeeaaaaah. Whatever incentive to be added need to come fast. Matching Scarlet Spear is gonna be harder than matching conclave with these numbers.

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

On PS4 , Some Assembly Required. Trophie .. Assemble a railjack     0.4%...Ultra Rare..

[Aldain]

6 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

People who keep saying they must enter Crewships must not be well informed, because hitting the engines with the Artillery now can OHK even Veil Crewships.

Though it is worth mentioning that wasn't initially the case and that even being able to fire the front cannon is behind tier 5 gunnery, which while not super deep into the tree, still means that for new players getting to crewships was the only way to deal with them, the archwing launcher being a safe boarding method is also behind tier 4 so until that point is reached Crewship destruction is pretty hit or miss.

My other general concern with Railjack is that intrinsics were needed to unlock basic functions of the ship, rather than enhance the power of those functions, intrinsics weren't a skill tree like focus schools where they could be used for gradual growth but rather a mandatory grind for the ship to be even remotely fun.

I mean almost every function of a Railjack (down to the ability to BOOST) is locked behind them, this winds up giving a poor initial impression of a slow moving paper thin Railjack to new players, even with durability mods without piloting 3 bare minimum there is no realistic way to avoid anything starting out.

That's just my take on it though, intrinsics blocking major functions rather than enhancing those functions once unlocked was no end of fustration for me and others when I played, especially when you had a ship with nobody else who could use the Archwing Slingshot or Artillery.

[marelooke]

12 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

It's the same as trying a Warframe without mods. Get at least a Bulkhead in the ship and you can do Earth missions so you can start farming the Avionics.

Hell, if you are in a clan with research done you can just farm the 1st Earth mission for resourcesto get the strongest Clan Armaments and Components before even leaving Earth.

People who keep saying they must enter Crewships must not be well informed, because hitting the engines with the Artillery now can OHK even Veil Crewships.

"Coordinate"? Unless you are dealing with people who have no idea on what to do, all missions in PUGs play exactly like normal missions: people are silent and doing what needs to be done to complete the mission, be it piloting, Manning the turrets, using the Forge or going to objectives.

How are you supposed to get any of those without doing the mode? I tried it solo initially and once I stopped babysitting the wet towel I was flying it just went kaboom.

Did any of that get sorted out or do you still have to hide your ship for it not to get blasted out of the sky?

Everything and anything you can with upgrades is entirely irrelevant to people starting out.

And yes, when its the first time in a mode nobody knows what to do, shouldn't be a surprise. Most modes are extremely self-explanatory, this one isn't and feels more akin to Eidolons or Trials, at least initially.

[(XBOX)GmanM1]

Maybe people just want to play as a "Space Ninja" and not a "Space Refrigerator"?

[Sharkgoblin]

On 2020-03-01 at 11:30 PM, Bacl said:

Getting close to panic mode hey?

Pretty sure the Arcane nerf that are coming will not act like oil on fire

  lets wait and see if the arcane changes are actually nerfs.

Spoiler

we are screwed aren't we

 

[Kaotyke]

37 minutes ago, marelooke said:

How are you supposed to get any of those without doing the mode? I tried it solo initially and once I stopped babysitting the wet towel I was flying it just went kaboom.

How are you supposed to get any Mods when you start Warframe without playing? How are you supposed to build any weapons without playing?

One thing you can do is trade for Avionics, I got quiet a few of them that can help you if you want them. But I will want your Ammo Drums for them.

39 minutes ago, marelooke said:

Did any of that get sorted out or do you still have to hide your ship for it not to get blasted out of the sky?

When I read this... when I read this thing, I have to wonder if those who spit those words really think those who say "Yes, we can solo after getting good Avionics, even the hardest Veil" are blowing smoke out of their asses.

Yes, because of many hiccups in my internet lately and making people discconect, I have been doing this thing Solo and while it is a longer mission because I have to manage the whole ship alone, it is doable.

I will give you a tip: Dont mind repairing everything except fires and Catasthrophic Failures.

41 minutes ago, marelooke said:

Everything and anything you can with upgrades is entirely irrelevant to people starting out.

You speak as if I wasnt there at that point too. But I did exactly what I told you when i was there: farm the first mission. A Bulkhead and a Hull Weave made a big difference, while the ship is not powerfull as your Archwing when you begin, it is so because you have been upgrading the Archwing for longer. Get a Modless Archwing and Archguns and see if it does better than the ship. Spoiler alert: it does worse.

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

On 2020-03-04 at 7:28 AM, Kaotyke said:

You know what this made me realize? All those people asking for "Content for Veterans" finnaly got something that would gate them from the rest of the playerbase and what did DE notice? Its not a significant number of people. At least, not enough for them keep the Railjack building costs and move forward in future content.

The people who ask for content "For Veterans" will now have a solid brick thrown in their faces saying "You are not a prority. Now sit down and we might consider something for you in the future".

You do a pretty good job of almost reflecting my personal sentiments.  I like the consideration at the end.

Personally, and I can’t speak for DE as I’ve little idea what they think aside from the cleaned up public speaking, but the latest devstream gives me the impression that they know they tried catering to... ugh, “Veterans” (nice name), and they rarely satisfied. And they’ve been trying for years.  What thoughtful game doesn’t strive to reward those who’ve played it?

And then they were like “You know what, we’re constrained on everything; budget, people-power, time. Though we’re under constant pressure from above to make money, let’s focus on the core game (which is risky because there’s a lot less ability to focus on fantastical “Whoah! Content!” to get new players on board. You can bet any hype-generating cinematics from any, well, anything are from a marketing perspective, amazing though they can be), fixing weirdnesses like 100% status shotguns and seeing what people think of removing self-damage explosions. While we’re addressing parts that aren’t new end-game content, let’s dial back the requirements of Railjack since it had a pretty sharp dropoff. The vets that liked it or want to see its potential inspire us to see whether those among the masses would too, so we’re flinging the gates open (metaphorically speaking), and hoping we can get more good ideas to make it better in the process”. Bear in mind that’s personally what I think they seem to be saying. For the most part it’s hardly fact if it’s not downright speculation.

Veterans will always be considered, as far as I’m concerned, and eventually I’ll be one of them, so that’s nice. Most games, whether it’s single player or an MMO, want to make the end of the journey worthwhile, and I wonder if anyone else has noticed that early stuff in other online games tends to be left behind, both by players and game developers. Unless (for example) a Cataclysm happens.

As one of the masses though, I’m glad that DE’s trying to make the journey to the end of Warframe enjoyable, too, cause as of this writing I’ve only half paid off my Railjack, and I really wanna fly it.

Edited March 5, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones
Formatting and clarity

[marelooke]

On 2020-03-04 at 3:52 PM, Kaotyke said:

How are you supposed to get any Mods when you start Warframe without playing? How are you supposed to build any weapons without playing?

One thing you can do is trade for Avionics, I got quiet a few of them that can help you if you want them. But I will want your Ammo Drums for them.

When I read this... when I read this thing, I have to wonder if those who spit those words really think those who say "Yes, we can solo after getting good Avionics, even the hardest Veil" are blowing smoke out of their asses.

Yes, because of many hiccups in my internet lately and making people discconect, I have been doing this thing Solo and while it is a longer mission because I have to manage the whole ship alone, it is doable.

I will give you a tip: Dont mind repairing everything except fires and Catasthrophic Failures.

You speak as if I wasnt there at that point too. But I did exactly what I told you when i was there: farm the first mission. A Bulkhead and a Hull Weave made a big difference, while the ship is not powerfull as your Archwing when you begin, it is so because you have been upgrading the Archwing for longer. Get a Modless Archwing and Archguns and see if it does better than the ship. Spoiler alert: it does worse.

 

Apologies, based on your response it was not clear to me that you managed those things solo. There's been a veritable deluge of people giving "advice" on how to "solo" without having done so themselves so you'll have to forgive my scepticism.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, ChaosSabre said:

They want people to actually participate in the next event.

Hey we made this event require railjack. Oh S#&$ most of our players didn't even finish building theirs 3 months in.

Still nobody's gonna play rj cause it's a bland gamemode and nobody wants to grind that much for such. I guarantee the event is gonna be a poop storm if your rj isn't leveled and farmed 

[Ploidz]

I built a rail jack right after the missions were available, but I did one mission solo by doing the trick where you park the rail jack a long way out so the enemies wouldn't attack it. After that I just didn't see the point, doing it solo is boring because the Rail Jack is the thing I dislike, it's just not for me. I play the game to relax and slice and shoot enemies. I rarely ever do group stuff (exp on that one defense mission to level up frames or weapons).

Edited March 6, 2020 by Ploidz