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New arcane energyze and energy drain ability.


selig_fay
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I don't really understand what it means to energyze duration from arcane. The only possible option may be that arcane energyze will now regenerate energy, which will actually be useless for energy drain abilities. And this is the actual nerf of these frames:

Valkyrie, Wisp, Wukong, Grendel, Ivara, Mesa, Nyx, Oberon, Revenant, Titania, Chroma, Equinox, Excalibur, Ember, Hydroid (At first I thought about whether to add a Hydroid to the list, but it can come out of the puddle, collect orbs of energy, and dive back, which gets an advantage from arcane energyze now.)

At this point, the energy drain abilities are already weaker in terms of energy management than the duration or spam abilities. And the current update can play a cruel joke, for example, with the new Ember. And when you consider that soon Titania Prime, which can't actually abuse anything other than arcane energyze when it's in razorwing, it seems to me that the energy drain system should be redesigned.

 

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I don't even know why energy drain diabales energy regenaration. Ever since EV trinity was a thing , 100% uptime on skills is the rule not exception.

I don't even know why devs insist on that backwards desing that makes paying 100 energy for 5 second of duration better than a chanelling cost of 10 energy/s ( a bit of an exaggeration ). On top of that most chaneled skill aren't even that good because most of than compety with simply using an OP weapon using a riven mod.

 

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We have players complaining about too much ability usage, we have players complaining about not enough energy for abilities etc... DE never going to win on this one.

I've never actually bothered with energy arcanes but do run zenurik in most cases so the change isn't anything new for me personally because zenurik doesn't recharge during channelled abilities, it's just bringing everything into parity.

Having said that it's pretty clear what DE's main intention with the upcoming changes are and that's basically to make us use primary/secondary weapons more... all while ignoring their main shortfall of lower damage output than melee etc...

If you think about it, enemies are being reworked so they're closer to the nyx model and as such we actually need to hit 'hotspots' and I'm betting that in the change a fair few abilities will have a stealth 'nerf' as well due to the way things like shields are going to be acting and not getting as much damage from full body shots.   All of which is aimed at pushing players to use weapons more.  Ironically that isn't what drew me into the game and I'm not a fan of even using the primary/secondary weapons in missions, I prefer melee....

Edited by LSG501
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13 минут назад, LSG501 сказал:
If you think about it, enemies are being reworked so they're closer to the nyx model and as such we actually need to hit 'hotspots' and I'm betting that in the change a fair few abilities will have a stealth 'nerf' as well due to the way things like shields are going to be acting and not getting as much damage from full body shots. All of which is aimed at pushing players to use weapons more. Ironically that isn't what drew me into the game and I'm not a fan of even using the primary/secondary weapons in missions, I prefer melee....

I have nothing against using conventional weapons. The problem is that most frames in Grendel missions are just skins and nothing else, because without energy they can't perform their mechanics, while there are frames that don't worry about energy at all, due to the possibility of returning, tanking, infinite duration of certain abilities or passive abilities. If they want to limit players in terms of energy, let them do it. But they need to do a lot of rework that they will not do, which means it will just be another problem that will never be solved. It's easier for them to start making warframe 2.

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39 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

We have players complaining about too much ability usage, we have players complaining about not enough energy for abilities etc... DE never going to win on this one.

I've never actually bothered with energy arcanes but do run zenurik in most cases so the change isn't anything new for me personally because zenurik doesn't recharge during channelled abilities, it's just bringing everything into parity.

Having said that it's pretty clear what DE's main intention with the upcoming changes are and that's basically to make us use primary/secondary weapons more... all while ignoring their main shortfall of lower damage output than melee etc...

If you think about it, enemies are being reworked so they're closer to the nyx model and as such we actually need to hit 'hotspots' and I'm betting that in the change a fair few abilities will have a stealth 'nerf' as well due to the way things like shields are going to be acting and not getting as much damage from full body shots.   All of which is aimed at pushing players to use weapons more.  Ironically that isn't what drew me into the game and I'm not a fan of even using the primary/secondary weapons in missions, I prefer melee....

They are never going to win this one because the energy system is the same for every warframe while the energy requirement is diferent for each warframe. Therefore people that play inaros dont even know such non sense as ability energy cost are thing while people that play ember would like to get a bit more of juice so they can have fun.

What botthers me is DE half caring about it. They dont cara about it enought to adress the core issues and do a makeover but they half care about ot so they nerf an specifics parts of the system don't adress the spam at all but gut 3-7 frames on the process. 

I did a post of an major energy rework that was quite generous but did not receive a good reception even dough for the most part it was buff.

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21 minutes ago, zhellon said:

I have nothing against using conventional weapons. The problem is that most frames in Grendel missions are just skins and nothing else, because without energy they can't perform their mechanics, while there are frames that don't worry about energy at all, due to the possibility of returning, tanking, infinite duration of certain abilities or passive abilities. If they want to limit players in terms of energy, let them do it. But they need to do a lot of rework that they will not do, which means it will just be another problem that will never be solved. It's easier for them to start making warframe 2.

In all honesty iirc most of grendel mission was done with melee in my case lol...  but we won't go towards grendel mission, I think we can all agree that was a pain and wasn't really enjoyable for most people unless you lucked into or formed a 'meta squad'

 

1 minute ago, keikogi said:

They are never going to win this one because the energy system is the same for every warframe while the energy requirement is diferent for each warframe. Therefore people that play inaros dont even know such non sense as ability energy cost are thing while people that play ember would like to get a bit more of juice so they can have fun.

What botthers me is DE half caring about it. They dont cara about it enought to adress the core issues and do a makeover but they half care about ot so they nerf an specifics parts of the system don't adress the spam at all but gut 3-7 frames on the process. 

I did a post of an major energy rework that was quite generous but did not receive a good reception even dough for the most part it was buff.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure some of the upcoming changes are good for warframe either and ideally I'd like to see some more consistency between warframe abilities (I hate the fact some are scaling while others are not for example).   However I don't think stopping the arcanes from working while channelling is that big of an issue because it does bring consistency even though others won't agree. 

Am I expecting DE to get everything right with these changes...no, in all honesty I'm not sure they'll get anything right with these changes.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, a lot of the issues that arise in game are because the main decision makers don't play the game outside of their sandboxed dev hacked setups which is not indicative of the players in the game.   I see a lot of the changes as 'knee jerk' reactions because they've screwed up with the recent updates and are trying to please all the complaints players have in one go and well that never works well. 

 

I'll be honest, I felt railjack wasn't right for warframe from the moment they announced it and I'd say it's been proven correct by the fact DE have had to open it up to everyone even though it was aimed at 'veterans'.... the grind for 'endgame' isn't exactly helping new content either and the majority of my clan basically isn't playing the game right now and I'm playing it considerably less than I ever have.  Based on what I'm seeing around the web, a lot of people have 'switched off' from warframe with recent updates too...

If this doesn't work out well I can see me just going elsewhere because the game has gone too far away from what I joined up for and I doubt I'll be the only one.  So DE at the very least needs to listen very carefully to what players say as feedback or they may just kill the game off for good.

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1 минуту назад, LSG501 сказал:
In all honesty iirc most of grendel mission was done with melee in my case lol... but we won't go towards grendel mission, I think we can all agree that was a pain and wasn't really enjoyable for most people unless you lucked into or formed a 'meta squad'

Well, I'm talking about it. You use weapons, and the frame is only as a skin, which is not able to give any advantage, except for the characteristics of shields and health with armor.

The Grendel missions show the current situation very well. Only 3 items were removed from the players: mods, arcanes, and the operator. But the situation itself is not super hard, because it is a level 40 corpus. Yes, this actually removed your progression, but you should only feel discomfort, not complete destruction of your frame.

 

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21 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Well, I'm talking about it. You use weapons, and the frame is only as a skin, which is not able to give any advantage, except for the characteristics of shields and health with armor.

The Grendel missions show the current situation very well. Only 3 items were removed from the players: mods, arcanes, and the operator. But the situation itself is not super hard, because it is a level 40 corpus. Yes, this actually removed your progression, but you should only feel discomfort, not complete destruction of your frame.

 

No idea why you feel you need to talk about grendel mission here when the only real change made in the mission was they took away our builds so we had to work with a 'base frame', we still had all the abilities of frames and once the 'meta' was worked out it could be cheesed just like any other mission. 

Having no arcanes has zero effect on that mission, hell arcanes in general have very little impact on the game in general unless you want to go for hours and hours of endless....hell I don't even see a need for the energize arcane in any of my builds because I have zenurik which acts exactly as the changed arcane will..... and funnily enough I don't think any of my frames are destroyed by not having arcane energize.  At the end of the day you can easily argue that energize was 'broken' because it didn't act in the same way as zenurik, which funnily enough got nerfed in the focus rework due to being a constant energy supply when not channelling....

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2 hours ago, zhellon said:

I don't really understand what it means to energyze duration from arcane.

Well, how about, just as an idea... You know, as a theory for this, because jumping to all of these conclusions has historically only ever worked for the community when DE has actually gone into detail, explained, and proved the negative repercussions before the release... you could just wait and see?

It's going to be literally in the next couple of weeks. DE said it's dropping before Scarlet Spear as some of the changes are necessary parts of making the Operation actually work. Scarlet Spear is listed on their DevStream as being 'early March', which is somewhere before 'late March'. At the very latest this Mainline is coming two weeks from now.

And besides, all this change could mean is simply this: If you pick up an orb and the Arcane procs, you can't get another proc for that arcane for a short time. You could be panicking over nothing.

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59 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure some of the upcoming changes are good for warframe either and ideally I'd like to see some more consistency between warframe abilities (I hate the fact some are scaling while others are not for example).   However I don't think stopping the arcanes from working while channelling is that big of an issue because it does bring consistency even though others won't agree. 

I don't think it helps with consistency because either chaneled abilities stop energy gain all together or they don't. Any other system is not consistent. Because it creates unnecessary diatinctions between energy/s and energy. Energy income is energy income and always should be treated the same.

59 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Am I expecting DE to get everything right with these changes...no, in all honesty I'm not sure they'll get anything right with these changes.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, a lot of the issues that arise in game are because the main decision makers don't play the game outside of their sandboxed dev hacked setups which is not indicative of the players in the game.   I see a lot of the changes as 'knee jerk' reactions because they've screwed up with the recent updates and are trying to please all the complaints players have in one go and well that never works well

The problem is DE does not bother to understand the root issue of problem before adressing it. Shields got DR with is a useless change because you could just increase the shield amount and regeneration accordingly. The problem with shields is alot of stuff goes straight troughts shields and in todays day and age is easyer to regenarate health than shields. 

The explsoive weapon debatle is also consequence of refusing to adress weapon switch speed and allies interrupting your line of fire. The entire reason peopele kill themselves is allies jumping in fornt of them or people not switching weapons because switching weapons takes an eternity on a good day ( if thr host colaborates ). Also DE never created a proper system of tenno x tenno damage , weapons should deal x% max healh true damage per shot agaist other twarframe so the weapons would never be able to one shot warframe bit self dmaage would be something players have to aware of. Adressing the core issue Also has the advantage of fixing other problems steaming from the same issue , namely friendly fire being unberable because even inaros can't hadle a warframe sneezing is his direction.

59 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

If this doesn't work out well I can see me just going elsewhere because the game has gone too far away from what I joined up for and I doubt I'll be the only one.  So DE at the very least needs to listen very carefully to what players say as feedback or they may just kill the game off for good.

As far as I can tell the care more about what Quitte shy thinks of thr game than the entirety of the foruns and reddit combined. 

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13 минут назад, LSG501 сказал:

No idea why you feel you need to talk about grendel mission here when the only real change made in the mission was they took away our builds so we had to work with a 'base frame', we still had all the abilities of frames and once the 'meta' was worked out it could be cheesed just like any other mission.

Having no arcanes has zero effect on that mission, hell arcanes in general have very little impact on the game in general unless you want to go for hours and hours of endless....hell I don't even see a need for the energize arcane in any of my builds because I have zenurik which acts exactly as the changed arcane will..... and funnily enough I don't think any of my frames are destroyed by not having arcane energize. At the end of the day you can easily argue that energize was 'broken' because it didn't act in the same way as zenurik, which funnily enough got nerfed in the focus rework due to being a constant energy supply when not channelling....

The ability to completely abandon energy efficiency and not have problems with energy is a small impact in the game. The ability to use a different focus school other than zenuric is a small impact in the game. I think you're the kind of person who only plays meta. Just if it looks like I'm trying to provoke you, but you're talking about *you don't have problems with builds*. But that doesn't negate the fact that problems exist, right?

And, zenuric got 5 energy / s instead of 4 energy / s, but now you need to press 2 buttons. A VERY LARGE NERF.

18 минут назад, Birdframe_Prime сказал:
And besides, all this change could mean is simply this: If you pick up an orb and the Arcane procs, you can't get another proc for that arcane for a short time. You could be panicking over nothing.

Arcane Energize
On Rank 5: On Energy Pickup
60% chance to replenish Energy to nearby Allies
Added duration and Cooldown added (cannot re-trigger while active).

Duration and Cooldown are written separately. And the question remains, what does this duration refer to?

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1 minute ago, zhellon said:

The ability to completely abandon energy efficiency and not have problems with energy is a small impact in the game. The ability to use a different focus school other than zenuric is a small impact in the game. I think you're the kind of person who only plays meta. Just if it looks like I'm trying to provoke you, but you're talking about *you don't have problems with builds*. But that doesn't negate the fact that problems exist, right?

And, zenuric got 5 energy / s instead of 4 energy / s, but now you need to press 2 buttons. A VERY LARGE NERF.

Arcane Energize
On Rank 5: On Energy Pickup
60% chance to replenish Energy to nearby Allies
Added duration and Cooldown added (cannot re-trigger while active).

Duration and Cooldown are written separately. And the question remains, what does this duration refer to?

It really does seem that you're upset because YOUR meta arcane builds won't work the same after the changes and you'll need to adapt to 'non meta' approaches for a little while until the new meta is decided...

The reason I'm not worried about the arcane energize change is because I don't see it as an issue in the grand scheme of things, even more so because I don't specifically build for meta or rely on using arcanes....I build for how I want to play the frame or use a certain weapon.  Now in some cases a 'meta' build will happen (speed nova for example) because that is the 'best way' to use that frame but I sure don't go around looking for the meta builds that's for sure.. 

I don't use other schools primarily because of the hassle in changing them all the time and they don't offer enough of a reason to use something else.  Hell I leave zenurik on when I'm using inaros 90% of the time and well inaros hardly needs energy does it...yep that's a meta build right there lol

 

I'd assume duration relates to time.... I suspect the 'time' is going to be similar to how it works on zenurik when you pick up an energy orb or when you 'press those 2 buttons' repeatedly during a mission...

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2 минуты назад, LSG501 сказал:
I'd assume duration relates to time.... I suspect the 'time' is going to be similar to how it works on zenurik when you pick up an energy orb or when you 'press those 2 buttons' repeatedly during a mission...

Did you know that any form of energy regeneration is disabled in the energy drain ability? Although, here we are talking about any form of disabling energy recovery, except rage and energy orb (and AE gave additional energy from energy orb). I can assume that maybe this energy regeneration will work for energy drain. May be. But I think it's very likely that we'll just lose it.

7 минут назад, LSG501 сказал:

It really does seem that you're upset because YOUR meta arcane builds won't work the same after the changes and you'll need to adapt to 'non meta' approaches for a little while until the new meta is decided...

The reason I'm not worried about the arcane energize change is because I don't see it as an issue in the grand scheme of things, even more so because I don't specifically build for meta or rely on using arcanes....I build for how I want to play the frame or use a certain weapon. Now in some cases a 'meta' build will happen (speed nova for example) because that is the 'best way' to use that frame but I sure don't go around looking for the meta builds that's for sure..

My meta build. If you know how to replace it with zenuric with the same efficiency, I'll listen. You can even offer me an equilibrium or rage but I tried all of this and nothing works except AE.

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27 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Did you know that any form of energy regeneration is disabled in the energy drain ability?

yes and from what I've read this will now be consistent...

27 minutes ago, zhellon said:

My meta build. If you know how to replace it with zenuric with the same efficiency, I'll listen. You can even offer me an equilibrium or rage but I tried all of this and nothing works except AE.

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78OtkGN.jpg

 

Not sure what your energy use is as razorwing but mines at 6.25 and I've never felt the need to have energize (my primed flow is rank 8/10), in fact my builds actually have better duration and higher strength than yours while maintaining 100% range and 175% efficiency.  Admittedly I've only used umbral intensify (might do both on prime) and don't use adaptation but then I don't see a need for it considering titania's passive and mainly being in razorwing. 

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1 минуту назад, LSG501 сказал:
Not sure what your energy use is as razorwing but mines at 6.25 and I've never felt the need to have energize (my primed flow is rank 8/10), in fact my builds actually have better duration and higher strength than yours while maintaining 100% range and 175% efficiency. Admittedly I've only used umbral intensify (might do both on prime) and don't use adaptation but then I don't see a need for it considering titania's passive and mainly being in razorwing.

40% of duration and 175% of energy efficiency is the minimum cost for energy drain ability. This build is designed to use not only razorwing, but also normal weapons. 40% of the duration does not prevent Lantern from working, because it acts for 10 seconds, which is enough to destroy a large group of enemies. Tribute is not subject to duration, and spellbind is just for removing some debuffs and nothing more. Titania basically doesn't need a duration if she doesn't use razorwing blitz, which is currently impossible to use due to the lack of archwing inertia.

But this is a departure from the topic. The bottom line is that without arcane enegyze, I will start experiencing huge problems with energy, because I can't effectively restore it in razorwing. And if the rest of the frames can solve this problem using equilibrium, then Titania can't, because the companions are lost in razorwing. But, the problem is that now we don't need an equilibrium in most cases (Arcane energyze is able to support this Titania build on arbitrage up to level 200 opponents, after that you just don't have energy). Without arcane energyze, you will experience problems if your team is bad at killing things. If your team is good at killing things, you don't need energy. Yes, you might think it might be me, but I usually do more damage and kill more enemies than other team members. (of course we are not talking about Saryn in their natural environment) And at the moment, AE is very much helping me out, but without this thing... I can only quickly replenish my energy with rage on a frame that has 65 armor...

I can't say that mesa or equinox will experience these problems because their abilities don't work all the time, but those people who like to mess with exalted blade will feel the problem. 

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1 hour ago, zhellon said:

But this is a departure from the topic. The bottom line is that without arcane enegyze, I will start experiencing huge problems with energy, because I can't effectively restore it in razorwing.

Um... why, energize still needs you to pick up an orb for it to trigger....so the only thing you'll be losing is the bonus energy from it which at worst just means you need to pick up more energy orbs. 

Like I said I don't feel that my build needs to use energize to work without issues so I'm sure that you'll be able to cope if your energy costs are as low as mine are.

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6 hours ago, keikogi said:

I don't even know why energy drain diabales energy regenaration. Ever since EV trinity was a thing , 100% uptime on skills is the rule not exception.

Abilities being recastable with a duration vs. channeled still seems like a deliberate design choice, though. If you depend on Zenurik for your energy, abilities with an ongoing drain and energy eximuses are a bigger problem for you, and maintaining constant uptime for channeled abilities is part of the challenge of using those frames that depend on them. The trick is that we have this one particular arcane that kinda maybe sort of solves the problem, so the difference isn't universal, while nearly everyone runs Zenurik, and the frames that suffer aren't particularly in need of the hurt, so.

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15 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

Abilities being recastable with a duration vs. channeled still seems like a deliberate design choice, though. If you depend on Zenurik for your energy, abilities with an ongoing drain and energy eximuses are a bigger problem for you, and maintaining constant uptime for channeled abilities is part of the challenge of using those frames that depend on them. The trick is that we have this one particular arcane that kinda maybe sort of solves the problem, so the difference isn't universal, while nearly everyone runs Zenurik, and the frames that suffer aren't particularly in need of the hurt, so.

A choice being deliberate does not isent it from being stupid. I going to say it again " energy income is energy income " there is no need for the game to treat gaining 25 energy in a brust and gaining 25 energy over 5 seconds differently. If channelled abities are going to disable energy regeneration , disable all energy regeneration. 

Also there is no skill chaneleing on managing energy at all because energy restores exist and dont have any Cooldown. Leaving a exalted skill droping 3 energy restores and recasting the skill is not a true display off skill or energy management.

What bothers me is DE half caring about the energy economy , they don't want to do a makeover and adress both the energy drought that new player go trough or the energy flood veterans live in. But they randomly decided to nerf a part of the energy system that is not really the issue , nerfing 3-7 frames that aren't really a problem while not adressing the abusers or the system at all.

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4 hours ago, zhellon said:

Duration and Cooldown are written separately. And the question remains, what does this duration refer to?

You're not wrong, but here's a point to consider; Energise has long bypassed something that DE deliberately added to the game in order to prevent some abilities lasting longer than intended: Drain.

Drain has always been supposed to be a nerf mechanic. When something would be considered too strong to be a Duration cast, they put a Drain on it, when something is strong enough that even a regular Drain cost doesn't put it in its place, a Scaling Drain is added to make the ability cost more over time than it does at the start.

While you're worried about Energise having a duration-based restore, and thus being blocked by Drain, there's two ways to think of this. One, they're actually buffing the effect of single Energise so that it restores a base amount of energy instantly and also has a Duration based restore so that non-Drain frames benefit even more from just one Energise. Two, they're actually just bringing Energise back in line so that it doesn't compensate for Drain abilities that are genuinely intended to not be used constantly.

I would be worried, except that there are now multiple frames in game with the function, or Augmented function, of dropping Energy Orbs from enemies and there's about to be Protea, who has an entire ability that generates ammo, Health Orbs and Energy Orbs constantly over time, making her a fantastic option for supporting frames that have Drain functions.

So either way this isn't something to overly stress about, and there's still the option that this could be a net buff to single Energise to compensate for the loss of double Energise.

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33 minutes ago, keikogi said:

A choice being deliberate does not isent it from being stupid.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply otherwise.

33 minutes ago, keikogi said:

Also there is no skill chaneleing on managing energy at all because energy restores exist and dont have any Cooldown. Leaving a exalted skill droping 3 energy restores and recasting the skill is not a true display off skill or energy management.

And as someone who's never really used consumables with the exception of using energy pads in Railjack archwing until I could get a Kinetic Diversion and ciphers for the Bursas in Razorback invasions before I had a complete handle on operator mode, I generally do forget that they exist and the giant hole they punch in the design of the energy economy so much as there is one. I want to say that consumables seem to me to function as a crutch if someone wants to put in grinding time to circumvent build or skill in the same way that overleveling or stocking up on healing items in a JRPG sometimes works, and that'd be in line with my approach to them, but the reality is that they don't take any significant investment of grind, either. In theory, we're just making things more difficult for ourselves by avoiding them. I'm never quite sure what to do with that, since there are a lot of elements in Warframe that have a similar feeling, where there's a simple solution to circumventing a given challenge but it just feels like avoiding rather than overcoming it, so I don't. 

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37 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

. I'm never quite sure what to do with that, since there are a lot of elements in Warframe that have a similar feeling, where there's a simple solution to circumventing a given challenge but it just feels like avoiding rather than overcoming it, so I don't. 

Warframe kinda sufers from being a game that always builds up, regardless of the proper foundation being there or not. Thats why we have a jenga tower of games system piled on top of each other. Sometimes they work well together , sometimes 1 part pretty much makes the other useless , sometimes it feels like the system what desinged by 2 diferent teams that never spoke with each other ( warframe has one the most free and versatile moviment system whilr the weapon switch speed is so sloe that it feels like ot is intended for a stealth game not a horde shooter).

37 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

And as someone who's never really used consumables with the exception of using energy pads in Railjack archwing until I could get a Kinetic Diversion and ciphers for the Bursas in Razorback invasions before I had a complete handle on operator mode, I generally do forget that they exist and the giant hole they punch in the design of the energy economy so much as there is one.

I fall on similar category.

37 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

I want to say that consumables seem to me to function as a crutch if someone wants to put in grinding time to circumvent build or skill in the same way that overleveling or stocking up on healing items in a JRPG sometimes works, and that'd be in line with my approach to them, but the reality is that they don't take any significant investment of grind, either

Fair point.

Edit: I kinda helpfull DE took the time to attempt to fix a things , even dough I don't completely agree with the changes proposed they are improviment nonetheless. Also, it just a good move for the company culture to have a preoccupation in fixing old problems. Hopefully they will address weapon switch speed and ammo economy , my pet peeves that can be fixed on a day.

Edited by keikogi
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3 часа назад, (PS4)thefallenloser сказал:

next person to call Valkyr vALKYrIE is gonna make me commit self-hysteria

Valkyrie,

20 часов назад, Birdframe_Prime сказал:

I would be worried, except that there are now multiple frames in game with the function, or Augmented function, of dropping Energy Orbs from enemies and there's about to be Protea, who has an entire ability that generates ammo, Health Orbs and Energy Orbs constantly over time, making her a fantastic option for supporting frames that have Drain functions.

And that's probably why I'm waiting for Protea. 
But here is a discussion about the balance, which is not in the game. If one frame should experience energy problems, then all frames of the same type should experience this problem. At the same time, supports that have infinite energy should have problems with their abilities. In reality, very few frames are currently experiencing problems with energy, but this problem exists only for them. I think that the banal addition of energy drain saryn will reduce its popularity many times and it will only become for users of fast cleaning of defense and nothing more. But, I won't mind if DE still refuse to block energy. We will still find a way to use energy drain constantly, but the problem is that it very much limits our gameplay and playstyle.I only play Titania for archwing, because I like this playstyle, but energy issues limit it (There are a lot of restrictions, but I could live with them thanks to some mods.).

And I think many people will agree with me that there are no useful energy drain abilities right now. Yes, there are peacekeepers, but they are not used all the time due to the fact that they greatly restrict movement. There is equinox, but this is not effective for continuous use and you will remove it in any case. (Although, I think equinox is still experiencing a problem.). Aaaaand that's it. There are no more really useful abilities that would really justify such costs. It's like making a Wukong suffer energy drain just because its clone exists. I will take a positive attitude to the nerf arcane energyze, only if DE do take up work on energy drain. Otherwise, it's just a nerf of the gameplay of some frames that aren't even strong. I consider Wisp ray a waste of energy even in the current state of infinite energy, but some people focus their gameplay on It. And I don't think this is such a powerful thing to keep you from using it most of the time, if a person focuses their build on this. 

I'm sorry for this wall of text, but you can still go on for a long time. The point is that energy drain is not used correctly in most cases and restricts exactly those abilities that give playstyle, not divine power, while divine power abilities have a duration or even an infinite duration with its own mechanics.. It's strange for me to watch this, especially when people talk about balance.

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29 minutes ago, zhellon said:

I'm sorry for this wall of text, but you can still go on for a long time. The point is that energy drain is not used correctly in most cases and restricts exactly those abilities that give playstyle, not divine power, while divine power abilities have a duration or even an infinite duration with its own mechanics.. It's strange for me to watch this, especially when people talk about balance

Energy drains wasn't even introduced as a balance mechaninism , it was introduced as way to balance the cost x duration off skill that more often than not you don't want the full duration. Realistic speaking it was introduced as way to buff frames not tie an anchor to their feet. The prime examples of the time were sound quake and meditate , skill that had something like 20-40 seconds duration , but most of the time you would want like 5-7 seconds.

Originally it didn't even stop energy regeneration but apparently exablivur usimg EB all the time was a crime agaist balance and energy skills got the whole some sources of energy don't work during channelling because reasons. 

The whole using channeling as way to nerf skills did not came about until during Nezha rework DE realized that of you want to make a skill suck make it use channeling cost. During the ember rework they just discocered that they can use an exponential drain to make sure something cant have a duration higher than 10 seconds.

Edited by keikogi
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@keikogi but we have a problem here. zenuric is able to restore 5 energy per second, which will give 100 energy in 20 seconds. You can actually support 4 ability with a 20 second duration indefinitely. And then you get additional regeneration from the orbs of energy. But the energy drain works differently and in fact, when the duration ability can be supported infinitely in many ways, the energy drain has only arcane energyze. Energy drain works poorly in many situations and it seems that only mesa has the advantage of this because its ability is used for about 2 seconds. At the same time, razorwing or hysteria (or any other exalted weapon) requires longer work. Yes, it is low cost, but the fact that you can’t restore your energy normally gives you a minus. And personally, I did not play ember and do not plan because of energy drain, because because of this mechanics, it is actually garbage. And I would be glad more if it would cause health-scaled damage over time, because health is a resource that I can manage in many ways, while the simplest way to manage energy is through zenuric. Yes, I agree that many frames do not need arcane energyze, but it is necessary for people who concentrate on playing with energy drain, because there is no other way. Yes, there is rage, but it is not available to all frames.

 

 

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