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A list of the problems with Valkyr


Viktorsmg
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When I see people complaining about Valkyr, it's often about the mechanical parts of ripline and paralysis, however there's much more wrong (or buggy) with her kit than meets the eye. I think Valkyr doesn't need a rework for the most part, but some fixes and number-tweaking, maybe except for ripline in case it's unsalvageable due to the spaghetti. And I think it's enough to, for the most part, point out the problems with each ability, and the fix can naturally come after that, e.g. "has bug" -> fix bug, "something takes too long" -> make it take less. I hope this is more objective than a generic "rework" post.

Ripline:

Spoiler

It flings single enemies across the map - make it pull multiple enemies to melee range near Valkyr. The augment is useless, and you can't swing on it, however it also doesn't work on sentients - they tend to float away and you would expect that the melee frame would be able to move them towards melee range, but alas. The Brachiolyst is an exception that just behaves completely weird - it gets the conclave version of the ripline effect, AKA a very short stun. For movement, it barely pulls you and is quite boring to use as you can't swing on it, but worse than that - it has a bug that makes it fail to change your direction sometimes. As you can see, I needed to cast it 5 times just to start moving forward again. This has gotten me to drop like a fat anvil down whatever I was riplining across more than a few times.

Also, who can realistically cast it fast enough on enemies and terrain to keep up that cost reduction? 1 second seems ridiculously small, especially if you imagine that you took a swing or two at an enemy who ripline dragged near you (if it properly did that).

Warcry:

Spoiler

It gives a good attack speed buff, and there is consensus that it needs to be recastable, however the armor bonus it gives is additive to +armor% mods, making it pretty weak. And it really doesn't help your caster teammates, who will have less than 100 armor. The umbral mod set gives more armor than warcry can even with the wackiest build, and even then, I feel like there is something else broken about this bonus, as in simulacrum tests I couldn't see a meaningful difference between having the warcry buff on or off with the umbral mods.

And even if it were recastable, the slow it provides is too meaningless for an ability that costs this much and has such a long cast time. Its augment is amazing, but it acts weird with teammates, as it requires that Valkyr does the killing. Anything can happen, like Valkyr falling into a hole or not getting enough enemy spawns in survival, and I don't see why others' buff should be tied to that.

Paralysis:

Spoiler

Paralysis is bad (worse than a slam), but it's not just bad, it's outright extremely buggy. It will not stagger enemies that are mid-animation, however sometimes it will even just flat out fail to stagger enemies that are standing still, for seemingly no reason and with no pattern. I tried this in the simulacrum - 5 crewmen, the first paralysis cast staggers them all. I wait for the stagger to go away, and then wait more, and on the next cast it only staggers 3. Then 4. In practice, I've gotten used to spamming it at least 3 times so that I can use it, and what great use it has... Getting a ""quick"" kill on a Nox or Exo Gokstad Officer, as they're the only enemies that are both not cannon fodder and finisher-able. And you don't even get any indication that you can execute a finisher!

The stagger duration is completely unaffected by power strength, but worse than that - it's random! Why?! Rather than making it random, I'd take that slow from warcry, weaken it (->10m range 20% speed decrease) and put it on paralysis with a bigger energy cost (15-30?), so that the stagger actually does scale and the cc is on a fast-to-cast ability. I've seen people say that they can cook up some miracle build with lotsa shield and ability strength, however that's bullS#&$. Against lv75 crewmen, with 330 shields and 330% strength, it took me 6-7 very patient casts to kill them. And these are crewmen, not grineer with some fat armor!

For the augment - it's super weird. It does help with the greatly increased stun duration, but the pull often times has enemies brush off of me and fly away as I'm casting it! I don't want to have my enemies move more, I want paralysis to paralyze them! It's a super specific bandaid that introduces a new "wound" of its own.

Hysteria:

Spoiler

The claws still don't get a bonus from the stance, the stance still lacks mobility and combo, and the acolyte mods still can't be equipped even though they were nerfed and it's so much easier to lose your combo on an exalted melee - like falling in a hole, getting near stalker or a demolyst, turning it off manually when there's literally no enemies around you... In the past, you could use hysteria instead of the annoying child to hack consoles. You now can't because the parazon is a separate "weapon" that gets equipped instead of the claws while hacking. Please fix this, I don't like kids. They're literal hypocrites.

In normal gameplay, Hysteria's augment often has me end up with a greatly reduced FOV due to some bug with its animation. The Hysteria idle animation is also broken - it has the claws go through Valkyr's hands in a very weird way. And the Hysteria stealth finisher animation is also broken - Valkyr stomps on an enemy, but all the damage is dealt at once when the animation finishes. I know, you'd rarely do this, but it's still fun to try and see how many enemies I can kill before I'm spotted.

With the complaints about Ivara Prime's cloak FX, I think it's necessary to note how painful to look at hysteria is with color correction on. The whole screen turns orange, and that looks cool for the first 5 seconds but it starts to seriously tire my eyes after that. And it makes it even harder to see at distance in the already hard-to-see-in world of warframe tunnels. I've seen many youtubers who use Valkyr simply have color correction off. Should we have to go nuclear and disable ALL color correction just because this specific one is bad? And then, it doesn't even change with energy color, so if you've decided you want blue claws, then they'll look bad. It also weirdly goes away for a bit when you're aimgliding - likely because that also uses color correction for an effect that is not so ridiculous.

In line with the UI improvements, it would also be nice to see the max energy usage of hysteria, not just the start one.

Even Valkyr's (non-tennogen) fashionframe is broken. Hysteria on Valkyr Prime's normal Valkyr skin's arm block things uses the prime FX, rather than the "normal" FX it should be using. Here's a picture to better illustrate that:

Spoiler

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And her immortal skin is also broken on the Prime variant. This saddens me quite a bit as it was one of the reasons why I bought platinum in the past, and to this day it still hasn't been fixed.

Spoiler

1H24ZFv.png

The immortal skin should be a version of the default non-prime skin with some cool patterns and a pinch of PBR on the arm things. Instead, I get to play spot the differences. Can you spot them? And can you guess which is the immortal skin, and which is the default skin?... Supposedly, other frames might have similar issues with their immortal skins, but I don't really know about that.

 

Edited by Viktorsmg
Add that ui should show hysteria max energy usage
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3 minutes ago, woisen said:

Eternal War kind of fixed that warcray recast issue for me.

But good post pointing all that out. 👍

 

The recast is generally so that you can buff your teammates if they were outside the buff range when you first cast it, which happens quite often. It doesn't help that falling in a hole and casting it then won't let you increase the old teammates' duration via eternal war, which only adds to its weird team interactions.

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vor 11 Minuten schrieb Viktorsmg:

The recast is generally so that you can buff your teammates if they were outside the buff range when you first cast it, which happens quite often. It doesn't help that falling in a hole and casting it then won't let you increase the old teammates' duration via eternal war, which only adds to its weird team interactions.

Ok your right, but dont know if valk is realy a buff frame or should be reworked for this, i mean wisp fits mutch better in slot.

but sure this restiction lowers the value of her and makes funny team combs harder to pull off and thats only becourse of a unessesary restiction now a days (wisp buff).

Edited by woisen
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3 hours ago, Viktorsmg said:

When I see people complaining about Valkyr, it's often about the mechanical parts of ripline and paralysis,

I mean, yeah, small tweaks could fix her:

 

3 hours ago, Viktorsmg said:

ripline in case it's unsalvageable due to the spaghetti

It just needs to be more like enemy tether and less bungie-cord, pull multiple enemies from range to up close. You shouldn't have to aim it, any enemy within about 70deg of the centre should get dragged in.

I totally agree on all the skins and Tennogen stuff.

 

 

Edited by (XB1)KayAitch
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With the right mods you can easily get close to 1K additional armor with warcry. Not sure how that would be considered "pretty weak." Yes, the ability costs too much, does last long without augment and the slow is kinda pointless. But the atk speed bonus and the armor bonus are extremely powerful. You are not going to get a skill scaling off total armor instead of base armor. That is outright bonkers.

Ripline and paralysis need major rework. Ripline probably out right removed with paralysis needing massive buffs to be worth casting.

Without getting too much into detail (for like the 50th Valkyr thread), Hysteria is okay as is. The slide attack can 1 shot anything except bombards, below level 120 (assuming you formaed the claws and have the right mods). Hysteria is used more though for the invincibility. It is a niche skill with good uses in some situations. It does not, and should not out dps top melee weapons with 12x and rivens.

 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

With the right mods you can easily get close to 1K additional armor with warcry. Not sure how that would be considered "pretty weak." Yes, the ability costs too much, does last long without augment and the slow is kinda pointless. But the atk speed bonus and the armor bonus are extremely powerful. You are not going to get a skill scaling off total armor instead of base armor. That is outright bonkers.

That's not such a big improvement when I already have 2000 armor. Maths says it's a roughly 40% increase to EHP then. For something you'd need "the right mods" to accomplish, yes, 40% increase to EHP seems pretty bad to me. And what if I don't have those "right mods" equipped, and maybe opted for more duration so I can also use hysteria and not just stick to 1 ability? Ok, sure, she shouldn't get some super duper buff to replace wisp/trinity, but I just really don't see the point in a buff this weak. I'm not joking, I legitimately couldn't see a noticeable difference in the time it took me to die in the simulacrum with and without the warcry buff.

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

The slide attack can 1 shot anything except bombards, below level 120 (assuming you formaed the claws and have the right mods). Hysteria is used more though for the invincibility. It is a niche skill with good uses in some situations. It does not, and should not out dps top melee weapons with 12x and rivens.

I don't want a dollar store memeing-strike-from-before ability, I don't want to spin to be able to actually deal damage. I don't see how adding extra 10 capacity will make the claws somehow outdps ""top"" melee weapons, and if you think that blood rush will make them too OP - then cool, let's reduce their crit chance. My point still stands - for a normal melee, you can slap on Naramon and a decent stance, and you'll get to 12x in no time, and losing that 12x will literally take you 4 minutes of deliberately not meleeing. For the claws, getting that combo is a pain, and maintaining it actually requires you to pay a bit of attention, and not get shafted with the enemy spawns.

Other warframes, like Rhino and Inaros, have ways of being practically invulnerable without being locked to some crappy claws that you need to constantly spin with and be in puke-vision, the latter not even having to worry about ability cancelling. If Hysteria's true invulnerability is better than those 2, then it's only because DE #*!%ed up with their damage scaling again ("Enemies need to deal more damage!" Ugh, unbelievable).

Oh, and I guess I forgot to mention how big of a meme that radius and stored damage mechanic is... I've not really seen it affect me. It needs a "buff"...

 

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@Viktorsmg The setup I run for endurance runs uses Umbra Intensify, Power Drift and and Blind Rage. It gives warcry 140% increase in atk speed and armor. That equals 980 armor exactly, or 33% increase in eHP. Every 1K armor reduced income damage by a 33%. You can check WF wiki for detailed math. And this is scaling of base of 700. If we make it scale off total armor, with Umbral Armor you get 2,047 armor, x 1.4, that is an extra 2,856 armor. Do you even need to explain how ridiculous that is? And you "feeling" that the extra armor does not make a difference, is your problem. The fact is skill adds 350 armor without any mods, to Valkyr prime, and clearly significantly more with mods. Feelings are not a factor here. 

As for Hysteria, I will repeat one more time, damage wise, the skill will never surpass top melee weapons with rivens. There have been numerous ideas regarding exalted weapons. Probably removing them (while keeping or changing the modifiers) will be the best option.

 

 

Edited by (PS4)thegarada
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40 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

As for Hysteria, I will repeat one more time, damage wise, the skill will never surpass top melee weapons with rivens. There have been numerous ideas regarding exalted weapons. Probably removing them (while keeping or changing the modifiers) will be the best option.

Obviously not, thanks to Old Blood normal melee weapons got massive damage buffs when Exalted Melee just got a nerf.

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The OP I think sums up Valkyr's issues neatly. She's not an awful frame, but hasn't aged too well, and fails to live up to expectations as a result. Beyond general issues with her power (her 1 and 3 as mentioned are especially anemic), her core problem is simply QoL, as she's not as fast or fluid as she should be. Letting Valkyr recast her 2, tweaking her Hysteria stance, and letting players equip acolyte mods on their Exalted weapons (not just Valkyr, any Exalted weapon, now that the melee rework has happened and brought those mods somewhat in line) would already go a long way towards making her feel a lot smoother. Changing the armor formula on her 2 should also work and enable more builds for her, and to be honest I feel there are probably better ways to implement punishment on her 4 than the self-damage aura.

I think behind this, there's also a general issue with Valkyr's augments in that they'd be redundant if she actually functioned as she should: Eternal War is a band-aid to the effect's arbitrary recast restriction, Prolonged Paralysis exists only to make the ability worth using, and Hysterical Assault wouldn't need to exist if Rip Line gave the mobility it suggests it should. The sad part is that these band-aid augments are themselves not great, even though they should arguably be baseline to Valkyr's kit, so there really are plenty of opportunities out there to improve her more easily than most other frames.

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