Buff Rhino armor

[T-Shark69]

Just now, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Prove it, this kind of statement won't get you nowhere.

Didnt think I had to.

https://i.imgur.com/Zph4NrK.mp4

https://i.imgur.com/dmaPBDW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/eL4OBuz.png

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/fbvprs/witness_arcane_tanker_memedom_one_last_time/

 

[SASoHBoss]

Considering the fact that rhino can give an aoe damage buff. Massive area CC, good augments, powerful armor and a good dash for a tank, I think he is just fine where he is.

[OrSpeeder]

The numbers you people are throwing are... what shows up on the HUD or effective hp?

 

My arb rhino shows about "2700" when I use 2. So not sure I am doing the build right, or not.

[T-Shark69]

9 minutes ago, OrSpeeder said:

The numbers you people are throwing are... what shows up on the HUD or effective hp?

Rhino EHP is Iron Skin + Shield + Armored Health at any given time.

2.7k iron skin is pretty low. Whats your build?

[OrSpeeder]

How much Iron Skin I should be seeing?

 

Also armor, DR, etc... apply to Iron Skin, or it works like shields that are just a flat number and 1000 damage takes off 1000 shield whatever happens?

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

All of that consume so much energy and pale so much in comparison to Nidus/Nezha.

If your build can't use those abilities effectively, then I question the quality of that build.

Like, for one, Blind Rage is not a mandatory Mod, you know?
With some Efficiency, allowing you to use Stomp more freely,
you (and your Squad) will end up taking a whole lot less damage in the first place.
[That's just my preferred approach of course, YMMV.]

Also, what can those Frames do that's so much more impressive?
I'm not saying they're bad Frames, mind, but I just don't see them being clearly superior or anything.

[T-Shark69]

2 minutes ago, OrSpeeder said:

How much Iron Skin I should be seeing?

That depends on your build. Iron Skin takes always true damage.

[(PSN)thegarada]

1 hour ago, dota_Icarus said:

Rhino need buff, nice joke bro... 

I once managed to run solo sortie with base rhino, without orokin reactor, 0 forma, basic mods + 1 fleeting expertise... 

Isn't it broken af?

That is cuz Rhino is the best K-Mart tank. The floor to be tanky, is pretty low, but some frames have like an order of magnitude higher tankiness ceiling. However these frames need significant investments to get there compared to Rhino.

That does not mean he needs an armor buff. He is good as is. 

 

[(PSN)thegarada]

Meh double post the forums were giving errors while submitting. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by (PS4)thegarada

[(PSN)thegarada]

Well... triple post 🙁

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by (PS4)thegarada

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

7 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Didnt think I had to.

https://i.imgur.com/Zph4NrK.mp4

https://i.imgur.com/dmaPBDW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/eL4OBuz.png

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/fbvprs/witness_arcane_tanker_memedom_one_last_time/

 

It's the literally the same build as mine, you even have Health Conversion. You're just overstacking enemies, something that's barely possible at coop but yeah you do you. I never said it was impossible btw, it's just that it's not practical, not to mention all other tanks can have just as much EHP with 0 effort, they literally rely on passive effects. And they also have a better sustain because Life Strike exists, and Heavy Attacks is meta.

My point still remains, Rhino does more, for less.

[Alvengerz]

13 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

YEAAAH, he needs Arcanes to reach 200-400k EHP with Iron Skin, meanwhile: Nezha and Nidus doing the same thing, with no arcanes, while having a decent kit.

That's the point bro, you're actually proving my suggestion even more necessary.

I am proving your point?? The video I showed you there is to give you the idea of how high rhino's tankiness can be with, probably, the most optimal way to utilize rhino's iron skin. Show us that Nezha and Nidus can match or even surpass rhino's tankiness that you claim. Words alone aren't enough.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Alvengerz

[Alvengerz]

sorry. double post.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Alvengerz
double post.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

57 minutes ago, Alvengerz said:

I am proving your point?? The video I showed you there is to give you the idea of how high rhino's tankiness can be with, probably, the most optimal way to utilize rhino's iron skin. Show us that Nezha and Nidus can match or even surpass rhino's tankiness that you claim. Words alone aren't enough.

Why don't you just calculate yourself their EHP? Lol, there's an actual calculator that can do it for you.

[T-Shark69]

4 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

My point still remains, Rhino does less, for more.

Prove it. Youve just been yapping nonesense and showing literally nothing for it. Moving the goalpost everytime youre proven wrong. Barely possible in coop? Literally showed you two solo screenshots. Better sustain? Just showed u a video going from 400 to 800 iron skin. Want more? Screw that, at this rate I'll convince DE they need to nerf him. But i have another video in the works... 

Edited March 3, 2020 by T-Shark69

[Alvengerz]

31 minutes ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

there's an actual calculator that can do it for you

which one? and which is the one that is a legit calculator with the right formula that is currently being used in the game?

what is the point of ehp calculator if it doesn't reflect the actual conditions and all other possibilities in the game? also rhino, nidus, and nezha, each of them has many different ways to gain their tankiness.

[Alvengerz]

my internet sux

Edited March 3, 2020 by Alvengerz
double post.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

18 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Barely possible in coop? Literally showed you two solo screenshots.

That just proves my point lol, you only did so because it was solo. And the only one you did in coop, you just did so because Vauban has an incredible sinergy with Rhino.

18 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Better sustain? Just showed u a video going from 400 to 800 iron skin.

There's a calculator for EHP, lol. Do the work for yourself.

18 hours ago, Alvengerz said:

which one? and which is the one that is a legit calculator with the right formula that is currently being used in the game?

???? It's on the wiki, it has been used for years because it has been tested by serious players. To save your time:

- Damage Reduction = Armor ÷ (Armor + 300) 

- EHP = Health ÷ (1 - Damage Reduction)

My Nezha has: 1150 health, 446 armor. 90DR coming from Warding Halo. No Umbral Mods. Not counting shields.

- DR = 446 ÷ (446 + 300) = 0,5978

- EHP = 1150 ÷ (1 - 0,5978) = 2859 (rounded)

- 90DR = 10x EHP multiplier. 

True EHP with Warding Halo = 28'590. Higher than Umbral Inaros already, without Umbral mods.

Adaptation is another instance of 90DR, that means = 285'900 potential EHP depending on enemy damage distribution. Nezha can reach almost 800k with 2 arcane guardians, just saying. 

You can apply into the calculation to see by yourself.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

4 hours ago, Alvengerz said:

which one? and which is the one that is a legit calculator with the right formula that is currently being used in the game?

what is the point of ehp calculator if it doesn't reflect the actual conditions and all other possibilities in the game? also rhino, nidus, and nezha, each of them has many different ways to gain their tankiness.

Also, before you get confused, there is this formula: 

- 300 ÷ (300 + Armor)

This one will give you the direct multiplier, the other one: Armor ÷ (Armor + 300) will give you the literal damage reduction. 

To simplify: 

1- The result of the former is the damage that goes through. 

2- The latter is what you have as damage reduction.

Example; If you have 700 armor: 

1- 300÷(1000) = 0,3 => 30% damage received

2- 700÷(1000) = 0,7 => 70% damage reduction

 

[T-Shark69]

13 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

That just proves my point lol, you only did so because it was solo.

Wtf is your point with this one?  I showed you you can reach 800-900 solo. Vaubans perfect sinngularity only rezulted in around 120k extra from my solo best.
You think i cant get enough enemies to charge if they getting killed? Bro. Do you even comprehend the ramifications to that?
 

13 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

There's a calculator for EHP, lol. Do the work for yourself.

Again, you on about? We were talking about sustain. What does EHP calculation have anything to do here? Other frames heal, Rhino refreshes Iron Skin. S-U-S-T-A-I-N
 

13 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Adaptation is another instance of 90DR

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. In a perfect world maybe. Ehp calculation from the wiki is only theoretical. It doesnt even take into account crits being denied by Iron Skin.

So you have this frame that can reach as much EHP as an orb explosion, have proof of it, and you STILL think, that instead of say...half of the arcanes made to work, instead of being useless for him, what he really needs is MORE EHP. Christ im out. 

[Bakahung]

After reading of these post , I still think giving him the ability to recast like Revenent or so immunity like Nezha will fix almost everything... Just thinking

[T-Shark69]

Just now, Bakahung said:

After reading of these post , I still think giving him the ability to recast like Revenent or so immunity like Nezha will fix almost everything... Just thinking

We've been asking for default recast for ages, but at least shield gating will be a thing now.

[Alvengerz]

4 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

*snip*

The calculation you provide there only valid if the health of Warding Halo and Iron Skin are treated as the same. I would agree. But, nezha's warding halo works like regular health, while rhino's iron skin doesn't. As for Nidus, I don't know how I can determine it's tankiness simply by playing numbers since Nidus' health is constantly regenerates.

Also, arcanes and augments can affect their tankiness. So, you can't say this one is 'tankier' than that one based only on EHP without including all the factors which can affect warframe's survivability in actual gameplay.

[Lone_Dude]

Never liked it when people used pics or vids of acquiring 800k skin because they pulled in 20 enemies in a tiny room and then used the Ironclad Charge. Spawnrates are #*!%ing random af, most of the time I get like 5-7 enemies per charge tops. I also don't like to wait around till enemies group up in one spot for me to use as a skin "primer" - I don't have time for that S#&$. However, that last one is on me - just ain't my playstyle, doesn't mean that its a bad way to play, its just that it ain't a good argument in my eyes. It certainly proves that Rhino doesn't have any EHP problems, but it doesn't prove that he's capable of achieving such numbers effortlessly. In a way, its a positive thing, since it means that rhino isn't your usual braindead meatslab.

When it comes to me and the way I play, even without any setups I get by with like 70-250k of skin on average. I also use the Mecha set, so sometimes I don't even bother with skin lmao. Mind you, I'm not doing endurance runs and mostly run Kuva/Sortie and Lich missions, meaning that highest levels of enemies I encounter are around 120s.

What I am worried about, however, are the upcoming shield, armor and arcane changes. I don't use the Tanker arcane, I use Guardian, without double-stacking, so I hope DE go back on nerfing the Guardian since(if you look at the workshop post) it'll provide worse results than the current version of double-stacked Guardian and will also require 11 additional arcanes. Rhino skin also had ferrite modifiers, but now that DE are "neutralizing" our health, armor and shield values, it might change. Shield-gating will be a great improvement for my playstyle since I don't mind recasting the skin all the time and if pet improvements come through properly, even my weird-ass Mecha set will get a passive buff along with my doggo.

So yeah, I don't think that Rhino needs an armor buff, I ain't a min-maxer unlike some other people in that thread, but I still do just fine. Upcoming changes might affect Rhino positively. What he does need is some of that QoL juice and slight buffs for his augments. IMO Rhino should be able to shed skin without any augments, I mean, we can kind of do that already by just walking into nullies or jumping off the map, but having it a click away would certainly help. Iron Shrapnel can receive a buff instead, a range buff, maybe. Since DE are planning to add "double" status procs, Piercing Roar should definitely get that. And Reinforcing Stomp, well, ugh, it should just get a % skin regen.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Lone_Dude

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

12 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

You think i cant get enough enemies to charge if they getting killed? Bro. Do you even comprehend the ramifications to that?

Yes I comprehend, you can't stack properly, less Iron Skin. 

If Iron Skin stacked like Nezha Iron Skin, enemy quantity wouldn't make a difference, because you would be balanced to always sustain comparable to them. But since it's a number p/ enemy, you die soon enough if you can't stack against enemies above lvl 300. Because you will be hit, sooner or later...

12 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Again, you on about? We were talking about sustain. What does EHP calculation have anything to do here? Other frames heal, Rhino refreshes Iron Skin. S-U-S-T-A-I-N

Other frames: full heal with 1 hit, because Life Strike. 

Virgin Rhino: has to refresh his skill, also he needs Rolling Guard because at high lvls without it he will die.

12 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

In a perfect world maybe. Ehp calculation from the wiki is only theoretical. It doesnt even take into account crits being denied by Iron Skin.

Trying to deny these hardearned data will only prove your bias towards Rhino btw. You're not also taking into account that, in normal gameplay: 

- There's several enemy types in the screen, with different dominant damage. So more resistances to Adaptation.

- You're not taking into account they can fully heal with the press of a button. Not to mention Arcane Grace, which turns healing into a passive proccess. 

- They're much more practical than Rhino. Most of the times they only require 1 cast, no need to worry about stacking or something. 

My point still remains intact, and you failed to prove several times: Rhino does more, for less. But this time I just don't feel like giving you the privilege of my responses anymore.