About Self-Damage and opinions

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

16 minutes ago, MPonder said:

I can't agree with "Our damage is so High" argument people use, I can agree with "Our damage is so high for current enemies we have", but I do agree that some top DPSers Warframes maybe need some changes. Damage is just a number, If they nerf everybody damage to 10 dps and give a boss with 100 HP, wouldn't be the same if we still do 3B DPS and they give us a boss of 30B HP.

By making them not dying so fast (without using static invunerable phases a lot). Plus you are blaming Chroma for??? You can do a lot fo Damage with a lot, a lot of other Warframes if you build them right. And there is the fact that Warframes abilities interact, but since Warframe has like no real Coop content, only Eidolons has some extent of Coop, people seems to not realize that.

Imagine there was a 8-man raid in Warframe with an actual good boss fight and this boss has ferrite armor. Then you put to DPS him a Rhino, A Mirage with Total Eclipse augment, A Volt (Shock Trooper + shilds), all them buffing each other, imagine how much damage is just coming from them. A Well Builded Chroma with a Rubico with a CC/CD/MS Riven is just the tip of Iceberg of how much damage we could actually deal in a boss fight in a real Coop content.

Chroma is tank, but that would be not problem because Warframe has also Support Warframes to keep people alive. Only full tanks that are kind useless (no aggro abilities) in Warframe.

Warframe need good boss fights, if you do max 3x3 Eidolons, you are just suffering, Aiming with all those lights and he moving, etc, etc, etc,  it is just a pain, 4x3 is bearable. It is more enjoyable and a little more difficult to do them efficient 5x3>, not to just kill them. But the Eidolons by themself, they hardly, hardly fight, they just walk way and do something every now and then. Too slow, too easy to simple kill them.

Liches = A complete joke of a boss, boring and easy, and I don't even use Chroma.

Profit-taker, lacks of a better fight, Coop Mechanics, trying to put difficutl with tons of mobs and some with CC.

Then, there are the other bosses that are just full of invunerable bullxit.

 

Warframe lacks a good boss fight with actual the need to Coop, and I'd be happy to have some party wipes mechanics too.

My initial point was that I'm happy to see self damage Chroma go. One reason being he limits encounter design. I was then explaining that this limit is to do with the problem of balancing encounters to the damage output of the majority vs that of a few extreme outliers.

[MPonder]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Shelneroth said:

My initial point was that I'm happy to see self damage Chroma go. One reason being he limits encounter design. I was then explaining that this limit is to do with the problem of balancing encounters to the damage output of the majority vs that of a few extreme outliers.

OK, I re-read your stuff, but aren't those few outliers DPSers in the first place. DPSers should output majority if majority is not of a DPS Class, and endgame content should be made to withstand DPSers actual damage, not to withstand tank or support class output dmg, tank and support has other roles in the boss fight. But there is always some unbalanced stuff, with some DPSers classes, but Chroma's damage is balanced with other Warframes that could be made a DPSer. He is just more well-around (tank, damage, arcanes choices, reload speed).

Warframe has 42 Warframe right. There are a lot of DPSers, but some bosses in Warframe are immunity to debuff/abilities, so things like Banshee become useless in a boss fight. So you need Warframe with self buffs that don't relay on abilities that debuff the boss in anyway. In Warframe, I'd count - Chroma, Augment Buff Warframes (Ember, Frost, Oberon, Saryn, Volt), Garuda, Ivara, Mirage, Octavia, Rhino, Maybe Wisp, more or less 1/4 of all Warframes. Any of the Augment Buffs Warframes can have almost or sometimes more Damage than a Chroma if the enemy is weak to the Element Combo it can have with also some offensive arcane (like rage), Rhino more or less almost same dmg as Chroma, Octavia depends, Mirage has more dmg than a Chroma, but needs light, Ivara more damage, but usability. Garuda less, but OK dmg.

I don't agree TOO MUCH  with Chroma been a Stark, it is just that most people dunno that you can build other Warframes to do great DPS and still survive. like playing Eidolon with Ivara or Volt, then someone "where is Chroma", or ask me "what are you going host" and I say "DPS", then "but where is Chroma", and then I "I'm ... the ... DPS".

And the Warframes that Trivialize content in Warframe or encounters in Warframe are Inaros, Nidus and the likes, not Chroma. First day of Liches, every video of people doing them were either using Inaros or Nidus, and I'm total in favor that people that don't use DPSers Warframes to kill something that was meant to take a lots of DMG should spend a lot of time in doing it (not saying I like liches).

The ammount of hate Chroma is having is because MOST PEOPLE SUCK AT DOING EIDOLONS, because if it was actually Inaros that was getting hit, they would be crying a lot.

Edited March 3, 2020 by MPonder

[Leyers_of_facade]

then there is mirage

where you use self damage to proc electric on yourself to control eclipse 

 

rip 😞 

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

5 hours ago, MPonder said:

OK, I re-read your stuff, but aren't those few outliers DPSers in the first place. DPSers should output majority if majority is not of a DPS Class, and endgame content should be made to withstand DPSers actual damage, not to withstand tank or support class output dmg, tank and support has other roles in the boss fight. But there is always some unbalanced stuff, with some DPSers classes, but Chroma's damage is balanced with other Warframes that could be made a DPSer. He is just more well-around (tank, damage, arcanes choices, reload speed).

Warframe has 42 Warframe right. There are a lot of DPSers, but some bosses in Warframe are immunity to debuff/abilities, so things like Banshee become useless in a boss fight. So you need Warframe with self buffs that don't relay on abilities that debuff the boss in anyway. In Warframe, I'd count - Chroma, Augment Buff Warframes (Ember, Frost, Oberon, Saryn, Volt), Garuda, Ivara, Mirage, Octavia, Rhino, Maybe Wisp, more or less 1/4 of all Warframes. Any of the Augment Buffs Warframes can have almost or sometimes more Damage than a Chroma if the enemy is weak to the Element Combo it can have with also some offensive arcane (like rage), Rhino more or less almost same dmg as Chroma, Octavia depends, Mirage has more dmg than a Chroma, but needs light, Ivara more damage, but usability. Garuda less, but OK dmg.

I don't agree TOO MUCH  with Chroma been a Stark, it is just that most people dunno that you can build other Warframes to do great DPS and still survive. like playing Eidolon with Ivara or Volt, then someone "where is Chroma", or ask me "what are you going host" and I say "DPS", then "but where is Chroma", and then I "I'm ... the ... DPS".

And the Warframes that Trivialize content in Warframe or encounters in Warframe are Inaros, Nidus and the likes, not Chroma. First day of Liches, every video of people doing them were either using Inaros or Nidus, and I'm total in favor that people that don't use DPSers Warframes to kill something that was meant to take a lots of DMG should spend a lot of time in doing it (not saying I like liches).

The ammount of hate Chroma is having is because MOST PEOPLE SUCK AT DOING EIDOLONS, because if it was actually Inaros that was getting hit, they would be crying a lot.

I agree damage frames should do the most damage. I think it's fine if players have to use certain types of frames for different situations. Problems arise though if there are massive discrepancies within those classes though. If a fight is designed around most damge frames having 300 dps and a couple of builds have 3000 dps that fight probably isn't going to play well. I'm not targeting Chroma specifically, it's just this is a thread about him, and the example of this I see most often. I'd like all the outliers bought into line, in all the various roles. I don't care whether that means nerfing a few or buffing some others.