Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Should Junction Objectives be removed?


(NSW)negazina
 Share

Recommended Posts

Greetings! I’m enjoying my time with Warframe and looking forward to the next update. :)

there’s one thing that kinda irks me and I wonder if I’m alone here. That thing being Junctions. I feel it needs a bit of a rework.

Reasons

1. When you finish Vor’s Prize, you get a mail from Lotus explaining “the rest of this game is YOUR personal journey” or similar. I find Junctions are a bit paradoxical here. It really isn’t a personal journey being halted on the star chart due to some random questgiver or boss that is always around anyway.

2. I understand the junction restrictions are there to teach the player of new content they’ll pass but when most forced quests besides Archwing are practically optional I’m not sure.

Proposed Star Chart Rework

 1. Keep junction bosses, but remove the requirements. If the player can reach them they deserve it! 

2. Venus, Mercury, Phobos, Eris and Europa sure will be trivialised but all above planets have incentives to get there. This proposal means that it really depends on the player what they want to pursue. Ala the aim of Warframe according to Lotus’s initial mail.

3. I know Uranus forces Archwing so in that case just lock the nodes until the player gains the Archwing just like the ones on planets such as Earth and Fortress.

4. Speaking of Fortress, KF and Lua should still be hidden until the cinematic quests are done respectively. I’m aware there’s a reason for it.

End notes

No this is not laziness. If Kubrows and Sorties can be locked behind a quest so can Sanctuary Onslaughts without forcing a long quest to get to Saturn. As i said, it is hardly mandatory to do them unless you want certain content.

also, I am completely fine with the linearity of the Star Chart. No problems there but please make it feel less of a “I HAVE to do this to continue” and just drop huge incentive for completing unnecessary nodes.

An example of a successful change like this is Destiny 2. Plenty of great rewards to prime you into D2 during the main quest but since being F2P it is no longer mandatory.

hope I didn’t burst anyone’s bubbles. Tell me your thoughts :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, (NSW)negazina said:

I understand the junction restrictions are there to teach the player

I mean ... there ya go? 😛

Also, Warframe has lots of freedom in what a post-tutorial player can do,
and that's a big issue for many players already who are more used to "hand-holding" games,
losing that bit of structure to their journey would be massively detrimental / deterring for them, I'd imagine.

TBH, if anything, I'd like more stuff along the lines of Junction and Nightwave tasks,
especially those that introduce functionalities (like, play an Emote / deploy a Glyph)
that may not be immediately obvious to new (or returning) players,
but also some additional "challenges" along the way, like that one Melee-only task
(which also happens to potentially teach players that they can in fact keep weapon slots empty).

Edited by NinjaZeku
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

I mean ... there ya go? 😛

Also, Warframe has lots of freedom in what a post-tutorial player can do,
and that's a big issue for many players already who are more used to "hand-holding" games,
losing that bit of structure to their journey would be massively detrimental / deterring for them, I'd imagine.

TBH, if anything, I'd like more stuff along the lines of Junction and Nightwave tasks,
especially those that introduce functionalities (like, play an Emote / deploy a Glyph)
that may not be immediately obvious to new (or returning) players,
but also some additional "challenges" along the way, like that one Melee-only task
(which also happens to potentially teach players that they can in fact keep weapon slots empty).

Here’s the thing, I myself haven’t finished the Star chart yet after 70 hours and kinda quit the game for the reasons you mentioned such as the fact I never “got” the game.

However I think the junctions are part of why early game is so difficult and unsoloable if you don’t know what you’re doing. 

For example Jackal in Venus is notorious for hard destroying new players and Interceptions are almost impossible for an inexperienced solo player. Both these things are hard requirements to progress some sort of the Star chart. Myself, It took 2 hours of my life of endlessly totting at Jackal before giving up.

btw I watch my mate play this game regularly so I’ve learned a lot about it from that alone. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, (NSW)negazina said:

game is so difficult and unsoloable if you don’t know what you’re doing

Again, I don't see this so much as a problem and more as an opportunity,
if you're having trouble with something, this should make you seek out help,
that - maybe more by accident than intention lol - is part of what makes the WF community what it is,
we've all needed help figuring out stuff, at more than one point 😄

1 hour ago, (NSW)negazina said:

Jackal in Venus is notorious for hard destroying new players

Not sure about the difficulty of that fight for a new, and not least solo, player TBH
... actually, gimme a sec, gonna try that one with a weaksauce loadout real quick ...
eh, the gimmick here is that the boss teaches players that enemies have weak points to exploit, that's neat,
if you take cover behind the pillars and have more than just unranked garbage in terms of Mods,
it's hardly an impossible fight but rather a challenge that might feel pretty good to overcome.

But also, yeah, if you're having trouble, this maybe incentivizing you to play Public, that's not a fail in my book, this is a co-op game.

1 hour ago, (NSW)negazina said:

Interceptions are almost impossible for an inexperienced solo player

Interceptions are, on purpose, optional for the early planets seemingly in general, they're not hard-blocking your progression at all.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, (NSW)negazina said:

For example Jackal in Venus is notorious for hard destroying new players and Interceptions are almost impossible for an inexperienced solo player. Both these things are hard requirements to progress some sort of the Star chart. Myself, It took 2 hours of my life of endlessly totting at Jackal before giving up.

If Jackal is a problem, what are you going to do on pluto sedna and eris?

The only bosses which are easier are The Sargent and Phorid. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, (NSW)negazina said:

For example Jackal in Venus is notorious for hard destroying new players and Interceptions are almost impossible for an inexperienced solo player. Both these things are hard requirements to progress some sort of the Star chart. Myself, It took 2 hours of my life of endlessly totting at Jackal before giving up.

If Jackal is giving you a problem then how are you supposed to deal with any of the later planets with Corpus on them where Bursa can spawn that incidentally have a similar weak-point mechanic and are much tougher than Jackal?  And how the hell are you supposed to figure out Vay Hek?
I mean Jackal introduces players to weak-points pretty much.  And with the health bars its not hard to tell "Oh I can't damage grey portions but his legs have normal coloration..." and shoot those.  It teaches some basic mechanics.

If you're having problems with Jackal you are going to have problems with corpus planets later.
Further WF is a co-op game...so maybe you should branch out and play with other players.

Hek, Jackal also serves to introduce you to the basic concepts that allows you to fight Lech Krill.  If you can't figure out how to handle Jackal what hope do you have to handle Lech Krill?

Also, please note, that no junction requires interception missions to be complete, so please tell me why you're even bringing those missions up?

6 hours ago, (NSW)negazina said:

I understand the junction restrictions are there to teach the player of new content they’ll pass but when most forced quests besides Archwing are practically optional I’m not sure.

So you understand why junction objectives are a thing.
And they teach much more basic mechanics than quest mechanics:
-Venus junctions requires you to learn how to mod your frame and upgrade a mod, this is vital to new players and is a decent-ish way to introduce it
-Mars Junction requires the Venus and Mercury junctions to be completed, which introduce you to rescue missions and the idea of eximus enemies
-Phobos Junction introduces you to Relics and Cephalon Fragments
-Ceres Junction introduces you to refining relics
-Europa Junction introduces you to specters
-Uranus Junction introduces you to derelict keys; and requires you to craft a weapon of MR1+ which introduces you to BPs and higher MR weapons (I've actually seen players on Saturn that only had MK-1 weapons because they didn't know about BPs, and only found out because they saw that junction requirement and asked a question)
-Neptune Junction introduces the sabotage caches (and the rewards from them since players were likely ignorring them until now) as well as the idea you don't need to bring a weapon in every slot
-Pluto Junction makes you learn how to run corpus spy vaults
-Sedna Junction makes you figure out the Lua puzzle rooms, as well as ensures that you're MR5+
-Eris Junction forces you to fight Lephantis so you know he exists and that he drops a frame

Beyond that though the early planet junctions give important rewards for new players.  They get weapon BPs, they get mods, they get credits, they even get resources and a relic.  They serve as important introductions to core game mechanics, not "optional quests".

Further they make people go through the different quests to get more lore and story out of the game.  Introduces them to characters and such.  And DE should be doing more of that, not less.

Edited by Tsukinoki
Link to comment
Share on other sites

While they may introduce players to certain things, they certainly don't teach. This leads to people getting stuck if nobody invited them to the game and isn't explaining everything to them as they go, why it's important, how it's done, etc. For me, personally, I read wiki's, I research games long before I take my first step into them, so I know what I'm getting myself into (I watched several Warframe youtube videos following the search: "Things I wish I knew before I started warframe" a general search I perform on any long-term investment gaming.) Back in the 8-bit days, I'd read the entire instruction manual, even if it was a simple game. I'm a rarity as a type of gamer these days and I'm stubborn when I put my mind to something. I solo'd my way all the way past "The Sacrifice" quest, (minus going public for a couple bosses and interception missions), which took me a good year of playing (working 2 jobs among other responsibilities), before I got a friend to play as well.

Most of the documentation on Warframe is on auxilliary player-run sites and videos. The Junction requirements really only teach players to go outside the game to research what's going on. (not a good impression, IMO)

"Eximus" is never explained in game. People who don't stay past the first 5 waves of a defense or survival (maybe Mobile Defense), won't really encounter many in the first place. I didn't even notice it as a "prefix" of the name of the glowing units until many planets later... (playing on a PS4 and small-ish HD tv screen, names aren't all that clear above enemy heads as you're zipping around.) I followed a youtube video that explained how to complete the junction reqs.

Cephalon Fragments... are literally a side objective, and hunting them down without Thief's Wit (which is rewarded from the junction that requires hunting down the fragments first...) is painful. I helped the friends I invited, since I had the mods with massive radar range to easily hunt them down and mark them for scanning. There is no good reason to make this a junction requirement - at least, more than 1 is excessive. Also, codex scanners get replaced entirely once you get to "The New Strange"... another required quest for junctions, anyway, and for me, it was a waste of credits to stockpile those codex scanners (without any knowledge of simaris scanners coming in the future, nor any reason to assume they'd be replaced like that - I didn't want to spoil things, so I didn't look too far into the future as I went along).

Refining relics isn't really important that early in the star chart. Many full primes require at least one Axi relic to complete the item... and they're not going to have Axi's yet... so why bother them with a relic requirement that early? Put that requirement (if it must be) after they have access to Axi relics. It's not a burdensome requirement, but it is symptomatic of the existing issues.

Specters... are something I advised my newly invited friends to avoid wasting resources on, at least until they have frames available that make useful specters. It tacks on an arbitrary and useless 8hr wait to progressing to Europa.

Sabotage Caches... introduced on one of the most convoluted map types for sabotage... with underwater passages and rooms blocked off by those paths... probably the worst planet to make this a requirement on to LEARN about them. Yeah... I just ran this for my friends so they didn't have to worry about it until they're ready to spend hours learning tilesets and where hidden stuff generally is, supplemented by Syndicate medallion hunts that indicate locations of all other unique environmental type objects (like Ayatan statues and Caches) that can spawn where they do. If the requirement allowed cache hunting on ANY Sabotage mission on the star chart... it would be better that forcing sharkwing maps on them.

 

There are better ways to teach "so-called-core" aspects of the game to people, rather than blocking their progress. Part of the new player experience should certainly address this. (I'm not saying they're all bad... just not optimally configured for what they're trying to accomplish, aside from being roadblocks... unless that's all they're meant to be.)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...