Warframe Revised: Armor, Health & Shield Changes Megathread

[Mint-Parfait]

I don't know if I am going crazy or not, but all my warframes take damage much quicker than before. Most noticable is my wisp who used to be able to heal quicker than I got damaged and can now be out damaged as low as level 40. I know we got the new tenno health with all neutral resistances, but how big where the default health resistances before?

Not that it matters that much, things die a lot quicker now so it's not like I need the survivability, I just wonder if this is intended is all, plus it kind of negates the point of the changes making most frames glass canons still anyway. Or alternatively I am going #*!%ing insane lol.

Also the link to this thread at the end of the warframe revised part 2 thread accidentally sends you to the infested changes instead. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Mint-Parfait
addition

[Midas]

I feel like i'm cheating when I play this game now.

The new enemies have become far weaker than they were before, I can run viral with any combination/damage type and kill fully armored nox in 1-3 hits with no combo multiplier... 

That is something to be concerned about! At least setup level 1-300 missions for more difficulty with health/shields/armor changes for Tenno and enemies!

Edited March 6, 2020 by Midas

[Kadromar]

Mostly the playerside changes are great. I feel like I don't instantly explode on the frames of lesser endowment.

I will say that I seem to be running across a lot of incidental stagger that appears to be from enemy weapons. This is affecting Inaros with Negation swarm and not diminishing its charge. I can only guess that all weapons with the stagger stagger all within its radius. Time on your arse is decidedly unfun.

Arbitrations feel more manageable on weaker frames now, but feel a bit too easy for a good while might want to make the ramp a little faster.

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

Loving the survivability for frames and its funny to see enemies crushed so much easier (not necessarily a complaint). Makes me appreciate the hell out of the enemies in lich missions, though I haven't tried arbitrations yet. Reminds me of the idea proposed at the beginning of last year where we can select the difficulty of the node before playing. An area of ideas to consider for the future, but as of right now, I'm at least having a blast.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Obe-Ron-Kenobi

[SaidTheRogue]

OK but make corrosive infinite duration as before. The S#&$ now is irritating beyond belief. 

[Reyj]

So ... Warcry-Valkyr unplayable now?

[DrivaMain]

Electric is... alright I guess. But can the shock also stun the surrounding targets instead of just damage? It will make it a good CC status to consider instead of turning it to Radiation or magnetic.

Can blast also spread some damage to surrounding targets on proc instead of just flat CC? Maybe just 50% of the weapon’s blast damage? It will make it a good status to consider without sacrificing too much damage potential compared to heat or cold.

[Monolake]

everything feels very easy now, lvl160+ drop like lvl~90 before, survivabilty of squish frames is also better

but it makes already easy game even easier, since you never see highlevel enemies unless you stay for long in a mission, we badly need more challenge, lvl90 is already a joke, (I havent touched Railjack, but others say RJ mobs are also much easier now)

Edited March 6, 2020 by Monolake

[Samhel]

I had a bug caused by a fatal finisher attack on a grineer butchter after blinding it with excalibur umbra that caused me to be unable to attack, shoot, use abilities, until i did another finisher attack on an enemy. @[DE]Rebecca

[G0D5peed]

I could have sworn I heard health was going to still be exponential. Idk. Endurance missions lost their ”difficulty” the new scaling might be to flat. Should still go up just not straight up (referencing the graphs) 

[Andele3025]

Something seems slightly #*!%ed up with either armor calc or adaptation as what now should be raw 90% damage reduction reduces damage to health by less than what a lower % true damage reduction from abilities.

Shields are much better/actually great, especially with shield gates massive survivability boost for true squish, it just seems like something also got broken on the health side.

[YogsZach]

Hyldrin's passive/shield gating isn't working correctly.  She has normal 1 second shield gating instead of her old 3 or 4 second one.

[(PSN)PS_element]

I'm so Glad you're finally getting rid of the 15 armor on all those frames. They needed a buff. Shield break is good and I'm eager about the ENTIRE update despite the slash redo. no more bypass? Ewwww.
Thanks D.E.

[SprinKah]

Been playing this update a lot and I love it but I found out that Viral is kinda busted. I think you guys should tune down the damage increase to health a bit. With the armor scaling nerf, Grineer enemies really do get affected by Viral damage increase to health a lot more. I feel like the Grineer got way too many counters now. 

Also, I think Armor scaling reduction is nice,  And I think that's honestly enough to balance things out between the Corpus and Grineer. Corpus has never really been that weak really, their damage output to the Tenno is quite a bit higher honestly, I think it was a case of damage over durability. Please, I'd really love the update A LOT MORE if you guys just take away the CONSTANT SHIELD REGEN of the Corpus. Just make it so when their shield break they get some invulnerability like the Tenno, stopping lethal damage. 

Literally they can just singlehandedly finish Invasion missions themselves, and survive fights between them and other NPCs easily. I don't really know if it's much a problem but honestly it just feels wrong 😞

I got nothing on Tenno side of shield gating, in fact I love it! But I still think shield gating on the Corpus should be tuned down, Again, just make it so there's that invulnerability period of 1 second or so, stopping one-shotting when shield break, no constant regen. That's it. I just think that Corpus NPCs are pretty much immortal at this point when it comes to AI NPCs fighting each other. 

[(PSN)Sentiel]

While on the topic of shields, can you fix Volt dropping Current Shield when you perform certain actions, like reloading your weapon, use Operator Mode, use panels, and others?

[Bathynomus]

The changes on how elements work is just a huge slap. lvl.30 enemies are now worse than lvl.130 used to be. Doesn't really feel that powerful when some random grunt will just shrug off everything you throw at them. It's not difficulty either, just bs annoyance that you need to micromanage your stats so much.

[RandomTrollz]

Shield drones and explosive weapons. Corpus shield drones make explosive weapons really ineffective. 1hp of shield = 95% DR for weapons which you can't get headshots on. Worse than old armor.

[potiisbest]

Shieldgate is a little Op now for some frames who already got survivability , I would suggest to tune down the duration deepending on the frames armor + health value. Example : X frame has 300 armor and 150 health he should get around 0.3 shieldgating . If a frame has 125 armor and 100 health than it should get 0.7-0.9 sec of shieldgating. Becuse frame who already own a dmg reduction skill or some form of protection ( or high base survivability ) got the most benifit from this ! Also Arbitration drones does not have a weakspot so you cant bypass shieldgating on them. 

[GKP_light]

Graphic of by how much the HP are multiply, depending of the level.

In bleu, the old scaling ; in orange, the new scaling.

Edited March 7, 2020 by GKP_light

[xBomber]

I need to test it a bit more but I believe there is an issue with the new Tenno shields/health/armor. Which isn't really the fault of the new Tenno stuff. 

The issue is in railjack, I tend to use Loki Prime in railjack and I've noticed that Electrical fires absolutely shred my Loki. At first I didn't realize what was killing me, but I believe it's because of the changes here and maybe the status changes (assuming enemy status affects us how it affects them). I stood in in the fire for a moment and was hit with 6 electric procs, which just about instantly took out my shields and for 6 seconds I was just stun locked since I had quick thinking on and it ticked every second.

So I think the damage of those electrical fires and status needs to be turned down since in the chaos of ramsleds boarding its hard to deal with random shots everywhere on top of this new issue. 

I believe you guys mentioned not having railjack be a gamemode where you only pick certain frames, so casually hoping something happens about this.

Edited March 7, 2020 by xBomber

[Arsonistic]

On 2020-03-02 at 6:29 PM, [DE]Bear said:

After: Armor Shields and Health on an S curve 

This is a great step in the right direction, but even on an S curve Armor gets a bit unreasonable at higher levels. Why? Because HP and Armor are both scaled up, making the Effective HP exponential.

In all honesty I don't see why Armor can't be a constant value. Each enemy has X% damage reduction from Armor, and further tankiness is simply from their HP being scaled up. That is both easier to balance and makes the code simpler.

[Somnia]

Considering self damage amps never really came at any grave loss, giving stagger to operators feels pretty terrible in practice

Didn't see an official thread for self-damage, so putting this here.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Scorn

[master_of_destiny]

10 hours ago, GKP_light said:

Graphic of by how much the HP are multiply, depending of the level.

In bleu, the old scaling ; in orange, the new scaling.

You seem to have screen grabbed the devstream graphs.  The issue is that this means nothing.  

 

Questions that need to be answered:

What are the scales? 

What are the axis labels?

How does this influence a useful statistic?  More specifically Effective Hit Points or EHP is what we experience in-game, not the HP.  

 

I've got to admit that there seems to be some serious residual issues with the damage system.  There now have been several enemies that I hit with the Kuva Nukor who just decided that they'd take no damage at all.  Yes, it isn't a strong weapon, but the enemies were level 50 eximus units  If the damage scaling, by armor and HP, is yielding enemies who are less broken I don't understand how this is possible unless there's some goofy math with beam weapons.  They definitely still died with an Opticor blast to the face.

Come to think of it, the Nukor versus a nullifier is also pretty wonky.  It seems to never pop their bubbles, but it can bring them all the way to the lowest possible radius.

 

Moreover, the stats above don't show play.  They pumped out a graph of HP and armor, but haven't adequately shown the new frustration of enemies taking AoE as a joke and weapons capable of previously one shotting them and their friends now taking 2-3 shots because their gating seems to work more consistently than ours for anything but the across the room one shot enemies (looking at you bombards).

[GKP_light]

il y a 1 minute, master_of_destiny a dit :

What are the scales? 

What are the axis labels?

"Graphic of by how much the HP are multiply, depending of the level."

So horizontally, the level ; and vertically, how much the base HP are multiply.

The scale is write on the axis.

(and they don't come from the devstream)

il y a 1 minute, master_of_destiny a dit :

How does this influence a useful statistic? More specifically Effective Hit Points or EHP is what we experience in-game, not the HP. 

for a Infested, HP=EHP

for the Corpus, you have to add the shield. (except if you use Toxin)

for the Greener, you multiply by the armor.

 

[SadOverlord]

I wanna drop to you, DE, some big brain piece of knowledge.

Basically, take the Shield scaling and the Armor scaling and throw them out of the window. Make the Shield scaling graph equal to the Health scaling graph (eg: if an enemy at base level has 20 health and 40 shield, the health to shield ratio will always be 1 to 2) and make the Armor value a flat number for each enemy somewhere between 50 and 2700.

Then, start trying to balance everything else: damage types, procs, multipliers. There is a lot of work you have to do.

But if you don't start with realizing that one of the biggest issue in this game is the fact that Grineer EHP scale way more than Corpus and Infested EHP, you will go nowhere. Especially considering the fact the whole game right now revolves around ignoring armor. You NEED to try to make the environment as controlled as possible to try to balance anything. Right now the state of the game is so wild it feels like a magnified sandbox without the actial good stuff a sandbox would provide: different valid options.

Edited March 8, 2020 by SadOverlord