Warframe Revised: Infested Damage Megathread

[aspeedninja]

10 minutes ago, GKP_light said:

they don't need more damage. they already have too mush damage.

They need a lot more health, like multiply by 10 they HP.

So u what them to be more Bullet spongy making your dps lower, making it even harder to keep up life support in survival and slowing down combat,  Rather than making them more deadly, giving fighting infested some strategy and making it more fun, why..... why??

[GKP_light]

il y a 15 minutes, aspeedninja a dit :

So u what them to be more Bullet spongy making your dps lower, making it even harder to keep up life support in survival and slowing down combat,  Rather than making them more deadly, giving fighting infested some strategy and making it more fun, why..... why??

because one-shot everything and sometime be one-shot is not funny.

an intersting fight is not a fight end in 0.2 seconde.

[MD04]

On 2020-03-05 at 11:48 AM, mkoo said:

Do they hit Kavor defectors in Defection for more damage as well now? I don't think being more agile is an option for them.

Here to post about this. Kavor need a buff please. Before I'd lose 2-3 of them in a C rotation playing whoever. Now I'm using Oberon with the best healing build I can put together and losing 5+ easily before getting 8 groups out. (Mostly playing Caracol, Saturn.) I hadn't lost full groups before either, and now I've lost whole groups that were sitting on the life support module. Not to mention the Ancients sapping all your energy making it even harder to keep them healed.

I'd settle for just having them be more competent at running. A little faster, not getting stuck on everything, and most importantly, not splitting up, especially when they decide to take the longest path out of a room. And/or maybe put some buffs on the life support modules so they're not dying so fast while trying to heal up.

[ScytodiDaedalus]

Infested do not and never really needed more damage, what they need to be a threat is to actually attack you when you are in their proximity, right now, the only ways to get mauled by them when they are within melee range are:

1. Stand still.
2. Get pulled in by an Ancient.
3. Stuck in Tar Mutalist pools.

Here is an example of how easy it really is to outrun them and just "Throttle" between them without them hitting you for even 10% of the time.

Spoiler

 

All in all the game technically needs AI behaviour updates, but atleast Infested should really attack the player while moving instead of stopping to do their telegraphed attacks.

[Bashuul]

So my biggest thing is the Toxic Ancients roar still one-shotting us be a thing, can that be gotton rid of? Espcially since 99% of the time i'll just run into one doing it while turning a corner, or some other version of "I didn't avoid it because I didn't know it was there", and one of the big points of this update was to remove one-shots right?

 

I'd suggest either make the damage not-toxic so shield gating works on it, or make the toxin deal a consistent percent of our hp and not some flat number that will scale into one-shotting territory, so its equally deadly at all levels of play. Also, making it so they only do their toxin roar when in range, and not just randomly?

[Bathynomus]

"stay agile" is the name of the game. Apparently you just don't want us to, with the knockback being basically a death sentence.

[potiisbest]

The AI should be improved for the infested . Dmg isnt enough if they cant even get to you . Any pre-made team setup will totally kill this change because they cant get close to your team at all . Dashing , Jumping around more frequently maybe I frames for the weaker ones. 

[RiperRazor123]

On 2020-03-05 at 6:17 PM, angrykenji said:

please remove or at least look at the hook mechanic ancients (and butchers) use. this has remained unlooked at for years and they are incredibly annoying, instant, aim-bot and will grab you from anywhere and even behind objects. yes, rolling will counter it but you have no notice or reaction in any game mode with effects and dozens of enemies flying around.

I second this and since the infested has received a damage buff, it has become an almost impossible situation to survive two successive hook attacks.

[Gailus]

I feel like Infested are understaffed with enemies that have any mechanics that need an answer outside of "shoot it and kill it really fast." I don't think that giving them more damage will fix that.

Other factions have at least a few enemies that ask something a little different from the player to deal with them.

• Grineer turrets: parkour around the back and kill the operator.
• Noxes: Shoot them in the head, CC them if necessary.
• Guardsmen: Maneuver around them and hit them from the sides and back, don't melee from the front or they'll parry.
• Prosecutors: Match the elements if possible. If not, try to open them to a finisher to deal True damage and be done with it.
• Nullifiers: Shoot the drone on top or just shoot the bubble really fast. Always look out for their presence if using a frame that relies on abilities persisting around a tile like Limbo, Frost, or Wisp. Be ready for any crewmen holding shotguns behind the shield, they can and will obliterate anything that gets close to them.
• Combas and/or Scrambus (scrambi?): Simply be ready to run away from their EMP when it comes out. Don't back into a corner and everything will be fine.
• Bursas: Just get behind them.

But let's list some of the more notable infested to compare.

• Chargers: Shoot it in the face.
• Ancient Healer and/or Toxic Ancient: Shoot it in the face first, then shoot other things.
• Swarm Mutalist Moa: Shoot it in the face. Ignore the swarm it does literally nothing, but there are some Gnats that seem to hang out. Rolling makes the Gnats fly away.
• Tar Mutalist Moa: Shoot it in the face. Ignore the puddle it does nothing until wave 8 of Arbitrations, then start shooting it.
• Juggernaut: The clear winner of Infested. Shoot it in the stomach when its exposed. Wait, that's too much work. Just melee it and let the forced slash procs kill it.

It's unfortunate but the playerbase continues to ask for "more difficult content" without really explaining that they don't necessarily want content that will easily beat them with lots of damage. What they want is content that has an ebb and flow with each engagement that forces them to utilize a variety of tools in their loadouts to deal with numerous threats that demand different answers to the problems that they present.

It really looks like this last update is moving in that direction, and I'm super hopeful for future releases.

Thank you guys for your work!

Edited March 8, 2020 by Gailus

[zuraja]

1 hour ago, Gailus said:

t's unfortunate but the playerbase continues to ask for "more difficult content" without really explaining that they don't necessarily want content that will easily beat them with lots of damage.

Unfortunately, I kind of get the feeling that big numbers, stupid, annoying invulnerability gimmicks, and status immunity are the only forms of challenge that DE really knows how to do.

[vensey]

On 2020-03-06 at 6:02 PM, MD04 said:

Here to post about this. Kavor need a buff please. Before I'd lose 2-3 of them in a C rotation playing whoever. Now I'm using Oberon with the best healing build I can put together and losing 5+ easily before getting 8 groups out. 

This. More of this. I was in the grind for the last harrow part and it just got SO much more annoying.

[Prodigal.Knight]

Infested didn't need more powerful attacks, they need faster attacks, and to be faster in general. Infested aren't necessarily smart enemies like the Grineer or Corpus are, they're "Death by a thousand cuts" enemies due to their numbers. Make them fast enough that they're difficult to run away from even when bullet jumping everywhere, and make their attacks faster so that you're getting hit several times a second by them. Increasing the size of their cuts to "Death by three cuts" just makes them more annoying to fight, not more fun to fight.

 

Also please buff the Kavor as well. They're defecting Grineer, but that doesn't necessarily mean they've thrown away their armor.

[Arcira]

I feel like the damage increase is fine but especially for melee enemies someone should look at there gameplay mechanics and AI behaviour. You can litterally walk in circles (not an exaggeration) and they wont be able to hit you. I´m not suggesting 360° auto-aimbot (Ancient Healer hooks...) but improvements to collision detection and speed could make them more of a threat.

Potentially there need to be a look at open vs restricted areas as well. When a group of Infested blocks a small corridor such a change could result in a lot of frustration.

 

[Sylonus]

I'm not really concerned for my own well being as infested rarely hit me. (Outside of the aimbot hookshots)  I care more about the damage infested do to objectives now, it's a bit over tuned.

[CopperBezel]

The damage increase definitely isn't enough to notice on player health. I think the idea of more telegraphing for the Ancient harpoon attack is good, but I'd kinda like to see less windup on nearly everything else. Infested are just too easy to kill before they get into range. Maybe that's looking at it from the PoV of someone with good melee and Primed Reach and not seeing the new-player perspective, but when I'm fighting on-level Infested mobs, they just don't get much chance to do any damage regardless of the value. I'd rather have them faster and more likely to charge straight into an attack instead of running into the room to pose and then move in for an attack.

[Drago55577]

Please understand that most infested will never hit the player. They need more forms of lockdown to make their melee damage a threat. Currently ancient hooks are the only thing that can kill a player.

More mobility as the above poster stated would also be good. They're melee enemies, why not consider giving them combos and special attacks like lunges, dodges etc.

 

On a side note, it's 2020. Most people have computers a lot better than when Warframe started. I think it would be okay to drastically increase the amount of enemies we see, at least for infested. More heavy units, heavier than ancients would help too. Use the infested as a testing bed for new game mechanics, more interesting enemy mechanics and new enemy design. Bigger, more complicated, things we need to think to fight. That's what Warframe really needs. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Drago55577

[Zoh_Veldae]

I was always fine with the damage, what I actually had a problem with was the special abilities and effects. 

Namely:

Parasitic Eximi just draining your energy without warning, even through WALLS. You only notice one's around when you try to cast something and you fail to do so due to lack of energy. It's been a problem for a long time, was very much highlighted when Sanctuary Onslaught mode was implemented, as killing one there will just have it replaced in a moment due to the nature of the game mode, but it has yet to be addressed. Maybe add some sort of visual cue like all other Eximus powers have? My suggestion is a tendril connecting to the Warframe when a Parasitic Eximus is within range of its ability, easily leading back to the culprit of the energy shortage. Something like we have for Nidus' "Parasitic Link" ability, to use resources already at hand. That and possibly reducing the rate of energy drain would actually make that particular type of Eximus more tolerable.

Any Ancient-type enemy using it's grappling attack. The move comes with little to no windup, almost always grabs us in any situation (as though it was aimbotting) and can't be interrupted by anything save for instant death of the attacker. Even freezing them solid or knocking them down will still allow the grab to hook us and drag us back, for some reason. And with the new changes to knockdown recovery, the time we stay on the ground has even been lengthened, so this issue is even more highlighted now than ever before. Maybe add a longer windup to the attack, a visual cue to it, like some effect glowing over the attacking enemy AND linking the cooldown times for the move with ALL nearby enemies that can use it, so we won't be spammed as hard as we are currently. And also making it interruptable by traditional CC like knockdown, freezing, shock, etc.

Ancient Healer's defensive aura that SHOULD redirect part of damage dealt to their allies doesn't do so, it just redirects status procs and general damage stagger, but the damage dealt is simply reduced and not split. The damage reduction is fine, but it should be redirected too, even if partially, to the Healer.

 

This last one is more of a nitpicking, but maybe adding variety to the enemy models. For a faction that consists of creatures suffering from horrendously random mutations, all their aspects seem weirdly consistent. Maybe add some extra feature to distinguish the regular running leapers from the exploding ones, or the Ancient Healer from the Toxic Ancient.

[fr4gb4ll]

On 2020-03-05 at 5:39 PM, Ketec said:

They also hit  hard on everything but the tanky frames.

Toxin ancients often oneshot even tanky ones.

And like half the infested are far from close range - shooting, spitting, extra long arm and aoe.

can't say they did to me, the toxic ones that is... but true enough, the damage dealed by toxic ancients shouldn't have been increased at all since they were deadly enough to most frame at certain, not too high, levels already. the extra melee damage and maybe the 'normal' spit-attacks from the run-of-the-mill arse biters is ok though. strangely enough i saw them often not attacking at all - maybe they are scared about their own new strength?

[CopperBezel]

21 minutes ago, Zoh_Veldae said:

Parasitic Eximi just draining your energy without warning, even through WALLS. You only notice one's around when you try to cast something and you fail to do so due to lack of energy. It's been a problem for a long time, was very much highlighted when Sanctuary Onslaught mode was implemented, as killing one there will just have it replaced in a moment due to the nature of the game mode, but it has yet to be addressed. Maybe add some sort of visual cue like all other Eximus powers have? My suggestion is a tendril connecting to the Warframe when a Parasitic Eximus is within range of its ability, easily leading back to the culprit of the energy shortage. Something like we have for Nidus' "Parasitic Link" ability, to use resources already at hand. That and possibly reducing the rate of energy drain would actually make that particular type of Eximus more tolerable.

So much this. Infested in general need more damage, but the parasitic eximus needs a visual cue. Preferably a sound cue when it hooks you, too. Rifling through the piles of Chargers to find that one darker blue one is just a bit silly, and watching my energy gauge so I'll know when one shows up is maddening. 

[jwya]

Ancient healers are still especially passive especially in large rooms with small fringe corridors, coupled with enemy tendency(?) to bunch around healers, it creates pockets of enemies which passively decrease the spawn rate in Onslaught/ Survival, but will flash mob any poor soul entering the area. CC isn't an option as well, unless Radiation has been applied from a safe distance - which isn't always feasible if they are at a blind spot/ sharp turn/ etc safe from long-range sniping. 

 

Additionally, not sure but hooks seems buffed? Not limited to infested ancients, but they can bypass some skill animations and heavy melee attacks/ with momentum. 

 

[Galuf]

Gailus explained the thing properly. In early warframe days, infested was putting pressure on you through toxin damage, it is dumb but it is like that, chipping the life slowly of non rhino players and disruptor ancients were scrambling the screen often and removing your energy wich added a very well dosed layer of "fear" and "innevitability", the excalibur starter was headshotting rows of chargers of any level by using slash dash and people were coptering into infested crowd 24/7, not to mention the meta melees that shreded them with charge attacks almost unmodded. Ancients were bullet sponges and problematic when ungeared but honestly any bow in the early stage of warframe was quickly oneshotting a row of them with rainbow modding(fun times). When derelict came out it was notoriously easy doing a 20 wave ODD while playing corpus or goonies was more painfull(and there was no corpus nullifiers, noxes, etc...), requiring frost. Infested got some few welcomed roster additions but it is not as polished content wise as other factions who got really better additions overall. Increased infested damage is not the solution to the underlying issue, these are KO by default atm because they just suck at what they do against what we have. Imho the final nail in the coffin was the release of primed reach, at that point there was just no point left, infested faction was officially sushy fodder.

It is kind of sad as this faction holds a lot of potential narration and gameplay wise still. I'm very appreciative to the fact this faction exists and I hope for more developpement towards it in the future.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Galuf

[Lysserd]

Does anyone know if the damage buff applied to the clouds of fart gas constantly spewing from Mutalist? Those could already kill most frames in 3 ticks or less at high levels, so I shudder to think if those were increased as well.

[Butterfly85]

On 2020-03-05 at 4:48 PM, mkoo said:

Do they hit Kavor defectors in Defection for more damage as well now? I don't think being more agile is an option for them.

I guess so. They certainly hit arbitration defence targets a lot harder now. Can barely keep those alive for 10 rounds now on my own

[Wakata]

I cannot bath in the crowds of chargers now as before coz they are able to do some dmg. Gameplaywise its still the same, not like I need to do something differently. Sometimes the toxic ancient pops up and it might one-shot me if i am not paying attention and I am playing warframe mission against infested faction, so you can bet I am not paying attention.

[TheLexiConArtist]

14 hours ago, Zoh_Veldae said:

Ancient Healer's defensive aura that SHOULD redirect part of damage dealt to their allies doesn't do so, it just redirects status procs and general damage stagger, but the damage dealt is simply reduced and not split. The damage reduction is fine, but it should be redirected too, even if partially, to the Healer.

Not only does it not transfer damage (except DoT from status) over to the Healer protecting a unit, it actually heals the Ancient for every damage event on units within its radius. Which is stupid, and leads to stalemate situations in some cases when you can't actually target just the Ancient (if at all), and your per-hit damage isn't overwhelming enough to compensate all the up-ticks of healing you're causing incidentally.

I really want to call it a bug, because it's just the dumbest thing I can think of putting on a regular enemy in the most unit-spammy faction otherwise.