Warframe Revised: AI Aimbot Change Megathread

[SilverBones]

AI Aimbots
Up until now in Warframe, the higher the enemy level, the better their accuracy. High-level enemies would be pinned at the best Accuracy they are capable of - not quite 100%, but getting pretty close! Things like your movement and Mods would reduce accuracy, but the potential for bad ‘Aimbot’ moments was too high. We have spread this progression across a greater range of AI now We are decoupling enemy accuracy from level to reduce the overall ‘Aimbot’ like behaviors you face at higher levels.

Why:
This change allows us more accurate balancing of foes at higher levels. This change alone would be noticed by simply sometimes  ‘getting hit less’, but in conjunction with the numerous other changes we are making to enemies, it is part of a holistic Refresh to the underlying mechanics behind Warframe’s enemies. 

Please remember to leave your feedback in a constructive and civil manner! Remember, this thread is for FEEDBACK ONLY. If you have a bug, please make sure you submit your bug on this thread and follow the new guidelines!

[Ikusias]

What about titania's Dust tribute and evasion passives getting more and more useless due to enemy accuracy skyrocketing with level?

[MobyTheDuck]

I have a question, does this change also affects enemies like the Scorpion and Ancients being able to hook you from mid air and then stunlock you by chaining hooks?

[LemonToTheFace]

How will this affect friendly AI accuracy? Will Wuklone still be able to consistently hit things at range?

[Casardis]

These suggestions and inquiries are linked between Infested Damage and AI Ambot Changes:

If you buff Infested damage, consider that they do more than just close range attacks. Even light infested like Chargers have long range attacks through their toxin spit, and there's also the matter of Juggernauts and Ancients who can aim-bot you with their hooks. Are all those attackst considered in the accuracy change?

Depending on how it is, since I haven't tested yet (so please correct me if I'm wrong on some assumptions), I have some suggestions as others have given:

- Make the hook as a slower, more telegraphed move (similar to Juggernaut quill attacks)
- Change the AI so it's not the FIRST thing they do when they use it
- Make their hook travel more logical and in-line with accuracy (especially with the recent change on AI aimbot) and line of sight (they could hook you even if they're facing 180' of you, making parkour completely useless)
- Give it only to ONE Ancient variants. The way they keep spamming it when Ancients appear in large numbers (they're not as rare as certain heavy units in comparison), along with all the criticisms above (aimbot, ignoring LoS, etc) makes it one of the most archaic-looking enemy attack design in the game as it stands.

If that can be done, some of the infested damage buff can be justified further.

[Ikusias]

One major beef I've got with aimbotting and hooks is that apparently enemies can shoot through their allies as well... saw too many cases in which scorpions or ancients inside a group - in the middle of it literally - were still able to launch their hooks, even when under hard CC like Khora's or Nidus' entangles

[Redfeather75]

So far it is interesting. A feel far less threatened by all the grineer troops, but when I shield get's busted or I lose a chunk of health it seems to be from one of the sniper enemies which is cool. Means I got to look out for that laser pointer telegraph the sniper's have.

[Aryustailm]

Against large numbers of Grineer and Corpus in the 40-60 range enemies seem not to hit me nearly as often; I took a spin out on Hildryn in such a fracture mission for this purpose and where my shields used to implode within seconds maybe a third of the shots I would've taken were missing if I just stood there now? It's certainly affecting survivability.

 I've also noticed scorpion and ancient 'hookshots' doing their thing through enemies ... and also thin walls a few times? How much punch-through did you gave those things?

[Gailus]

Everything feels about the same in close quarters, but I have a much easier time dashing in and out of cover on my Banshee if I keep a bit of distance. I can't stay out the open for very long as I still get hit when there's a ton of stuff hitting me, but it doesn't feel like I'm Swiss Cheese either.

I really enjoy the change.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Gailus

[Almagnus1]

Does this change help with Archwing survivability in Railjack?

[Sebith]

Since we are on AI aimbot topic, maybe ramparts damage should be looked at? Those turrets are very accurate even at long distance and their damage shreds through everything in seconds.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Sebith

[Guest]

While I experience a lot less lucky shots from the enemy.
One new contender, is ruining the experience some.

The new elite shield lancer units, don't need to aim.
They come with a tonkor. One that has about the same strength of the ones that liches use.

These guys, don't need to aimbot at all.
They allways succeed, in getting an arcing projectile, right at your position.
Even when wall jumping, high above the enemy's heads.
Performing acrobatic moves, and causing confusion to all the others.

You see a shield lancer, and one second later, you can expect all your shields to be gone.
This even starts with lvl 60 shield lancers allready.
Depleting an entire 1100 shield pool, with a single tonkor grenade, following you as if being heat seekers.
Not even bombards can do this, and they do have guided missiles.

It's like they magically know where you are, where you are headed, and what your next 5 steps will be.

Experienced their god-like behaviour, with each encounter allready.

Subedit:

When you even think about it.

Warframes use 2 hands, as well do liches, to wield a Tonkor.
Even Ramsled parties do. And those lvl 90 guys don't even 1-shot.
These Elite lancer guys can hold and fire it, with one hand (the other, holding a shield).

Quite a superior clone if you look at it this way.
That is one epic arm.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Guest
Subedit

[Wakata]

As a player with optimized loadouts for  hi lvl content i cant really experience difference during normal gameplay. I would probably need to do some 3-4h+ survival and thats not my thing, Would be nice if someone whos doing runs like those could tell us if there is any practical difference especially combined with shield gating.

[zakaryx]

High level enemies seem to be asleep at the wheel. I've actually had my shields recharge to full while standing still in the middle of a room.

 

 

[rstripn]

Woo! Great change. Nuff said.

[CopperBezel]

On 2020-03-09 at 11:35 PM, Sebith said:

Since we are on AI aimbot topic, maybe ramparts damage should be looked at? Those turrets are very accurate even at long distance and their damage shreds through everything in seconds.

I like them, though! They kill me all the time, but they're a stationary threat I know to look out for. I just wish they had a bit less health from the backside. If I'm going to need to hang out in an area for a while, the logical thing is to destroy them as soon as I get to them, but they sometimes seem to take forever to smash up.

Love the accuracy changes though. Keep moving and you don't die, it's a very good dynamic.

[kapn655321]

THANK YOU.

[Sebith]

9 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

I like them, though! They kill me all the time, but they're a stationary threat I know to look out for. I just wish they had a bit less health from the backside. If I'm going to need to hang out in an area for a while, the logical thing is to destroy them as soon as I get to them, but they sometimes seem to take forever to smash up.

Love the accuracy changes though. Keep moving and you don't die, it's a very good dynamic.

Yeah, i don't have problem with them. It's just the fact they are fixing "surprise kills" makes me feel like it was an oversight. I just think they should look at it. If they decide it's fine, then fine.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Sebith

[OrSpeeder]

To me only difference I saw so far form this, is that now my warframe-generated spectres can't hit anything. (Wukong and Umbra are the ones I have).

[Aryustailm]

On 2020-03-07 at 2:02 AM, Almagnus1 said:

Does this change help with Archwing survivability in Railjack?

No.

[CopperBezel]

Did Railjack get any of these changes? I haven't played it since I got the Shedu and Quellor and forgot Railjack existed. I assume that grounded enemies have the accuracy changes and of course the status and health changes we got apply to us when grounded, but there weren't any changes to Railjack status effects or I'm guessing ship-combat accuracy, right? I'd heard vague references to shield gating being a thing on the railjack and assume that archwings got that change as well, but.

[Flying_Scorpion]

I'm glad you made these changes to the enemy accuracy algorithm, but I don't know how to playtest it because I have almost no idea how the enemy accuracy algorithm even works. I honestly haven't noticed much difference. Regular gameplay seems the same to me, but perhaps I'm attributing any difference I see to the new shield gating mechanics. 

On 2020-03-11 at 10:38 PM, CopperBezel said:

Since we are on AI aimbot topic, maybe ramparts damage should be looked at? Those turrets are very accurate even at long distance and their damage shreds through everything in seconds.

Duuude. That's the POINT! The point of the rampart is to chew you up! Otherwise it wouldn't even be a threat. /facepalm

 

Besides if you run arcane aegis or arcane guardian, the thing shoots like a million bullets per second so you almost always proc your survival arcanes when it hits you. 

[CopperBezel]

Er, I got pinged, I think you quoted me quoting Sebith somehow? But if you scroll up, you can see Sebith's reply to me saying the same thing differently, which is sort of like they've already replied to you actually. = /

Edited March 17, 2020 by CopperBezel

[(NSW)Danaos]

Grineer Scorpions are pulling me like crazy after the patch, anyone else experienced this?

[Rul1n]

I think enemies still notice you too quickly when you get into their vicinity. And their range is also quite high. Most of the time they see me first and not the other way around. Makes it harder to play a little bit more strategic. When you are forced to move and jump all the time during high lvl combat, it takes away the ability to focus on hitting the enemy properly and using your abilities. It also is taxing on your fingers after a while.

In addition to that, there is an increased amount of pulling from grineers and infested as well as more knockdown effects with the recent changes.

Overall the combat should have a better fluidity imo.