Warframe Revised: Shield Gating Megathread

[SprinKah]

7 minutes ago, Galuf said:

- On corpus it is another story. Corpus was definitely not as weak as some people may imply. Some of them scale extremly well damage wise and in Fortuna there is a decent variety of annoying ones. Gas was already a very solid option against corpus and it will be even more pronouced right now. I don't know how low geared players will deal with them and I'm not sure if shield gating will introduce fun elements either when you had already things to deal with actively most of the time.

Corpus before this update had their strong and weak points imo. Thhey werent as tanky as the Grineer but they made up with a lot of damage output, most Corpus eenemies can shred through many tanky warframes like butter. Plus, their more-durable units scale really well in later levels, I'm unsure if DE looked into it.

Especially in Orb Vallis, the Terra enemies are really something. Now that shield gating is here it's just gonna be really #*!%ed to fight them, not all the times but you're gonna feel it. The shield regen will probably even out-heal your damage output sometimes, or you stop for a sec and all the dmg you put it regenerated back. 

I like that they reduced the Grineer armor scaling but they added the Shield gating to Corpus, I thought it was just gonna stop lethal damage if you shoot them at any place except the head, but nope, I didn't expect the health regen. 

[Dracus_Dakkrius]

1 hour ago, Thrymm said:

my shields served much more of a purpose, but I could find little if any reason to actually adjust my build to have more of them.

I completely agree with this. This update made Warframes with Shields a lot more durable. However, it barely matters at all how much Shields you actually have. The effectiveness of the Shield Gate doesn't scale with Maximum Shields or Shield Recharge Rate, so mods for these stats are just as useless as they were before this update. If the Shield Gate somehow scaled with Shields, then maybe we wouldn't have this problem. Say for example: when the Shield Gate activates, you also get a buff to Armor that lasts for a few seconds. This buff is equal to the amount of damage taken to Shields since the Shield Gate last activated, up to your Maximum Shields.

I'll also note that currently not even shield-focused Warframes (specifically those that can generate Overshields) care about Shield mods, because Overshield Capacity doesn't scale with Maximum Shields and Shield Recharge is redundant with abilities that restore a flat amount of Shields.

Finally, the 25% damage reduction (equivalent to 1.33x eHP) for Shields is nice, but is practically nothing compared to the protection provided by Armor. I don't understand why Armor shouldn't affect Shields. Path of Exile, as well as some other games, lets Armor affect Shields.

[Loza03]

I've not tested against enemies enough to be certain yet, but I have some words for players.

 

For the most part, I think this is pretty healthy. My own playstyle (hit-and-run Limbo) has been improved by this, and it feels a lot better to not get immediately yeeted out of existence for daring to poke the rim of my hat out of the rift.

However, it seems some frames (I believe Mag and Harrow) benefit too much, making more immortal frames. I assume the goal is to have no immortals long-term, and this could compromise this. I suggest possibly making shield-gate related elements a per-frame stat similar to amount of shields in the first place - shield durability and gate resistance.  For example, frames like mag which can acquire tons of shields easily have those shields have less of the damage resistance they currently do, and perhaps less time damage immune. This can be done to nerf shield-immortals whilst leaving frames that use shield gating as (presumably) intended intact.

[DeltaPangaea]

Initial impressions? I'm really liking the quick recharge if your shield doesn't break. It's nice.

 

[thelasttand]

it makes the use of low accuracy / low magazine weapons like tonkor painfull.

[GKP_light]

It is a strong effect ->

Juste play your weapon with poison damage, and kill everything easily ->

It is a useless effect.

[SwiftPotato12]

Is there any chance we'll see a change to the UI to indicate when the shield gate is active and/or how long it will remain active? Like when the health/shields are grayed out initially on spawning? I understand its intended to be more of a momentary thing than something like how Hildryn's passive used to work, but it would be a nice QOL improvement to see a change in the UI other than just not taking damage.

For the actual changes with respect to enemy shield regen/gating, it seems to be very effective at doing what it was intended to: making beefier enemies actually difficult to kill without ridiculous exponential scaling, or punishing the player too hard. It does add a bit of a challenge for killing something like say an Auditor at high levels without having a weapon that does high damage per shot (firerate weapons really seem to struggle here, but I've only done some minor testing), but overall this seems to do a good job at diversifying the difficulty curve like a lot of changes in this patch are intended to do.

Edited March 6, 2020 by SwiftPotato12

[tekmansam]

1.  Show a greyed out health/shield gauge during "gating."

2.  Give shield gating to sentinels to prevent them from being one shot by aoe attacks (#1 way they usually die)

3.  Consider Hildryn's passive and how it should be integrated.

4.  Seriously reconsider if you want high level corpus to be literally immune to Saryn.

5.  Reconsider the current implementation of gas damage not bypassing shields

[CresantTheRoll]

I... really don't know how I feel about this, even testing with Mag and near 200% strength polarize, it does full shield-break, but other times it doesn't do anything at all. Numbers pop up and does shield damage, but nothing happens to their shield. I might be missing something with that, but I don't know. Player shields still seem rather useless, still. Sure, the shield gate stops damage, but at what cost? You have to wait for the 4 second recharge, and by that time, you'll probably be dead to an enemy or grenade. Speaking of enemies, Tech Corpus... Jeez their shields are almost broken, especially if they have the shield osprey out. It feels like I'm not doing anything to them at all with a shield osprey out.

I think something I'd like to see is shield recharge rate as a stat I can see, and then maybe have redirection increase rate by a little? I don't know if or how broken that might be. It just seems really slow, especially with larger shields. That might just be me, though. Equinox's slash damage is rather useless now as it does literally nothing to shields at a higher level, notably since slash has to stack, as well as since it only does shield damage. If you get a ton of damage stacked, it seems fine, but the initial slash is completely useless against shields. Slash seems useless to shields overall actually, but again, that might just be me.

I also think that the 5% damage on weakpoints and headshots seems a little low, that could be for balance reasons though.

[Bidz]

Hello, bow player here for most of my time playing, not on the endgame, but I can tell, this change effectively takes out most bows out as an option vs corpus, let me elaborate a bit.

Bows have a "high risk high reward" approach, as every shot missed hurts a lot, and every shot landed deals a lot. This is similar to sniper rifles, but with the adition of having rather slow projectile, meaning the risk of failing your shots is even higher, which is ok because the reward is there if you master it. You shot, you land, you skewer a couple weak enemies, and you land a headshot or have to hit twice a tankier enemy. Now, you added an exception for headshot, problem is, being realistic, you shot a bow 1-2 times per second max, and in most scenarios enemies aren't waiting for you to headshot em, any realistic scenario wont see you landing just headshots with a bow. This change turns every fooder enemy with shields (so all corpus enemies) into tanky enemies against bows.

Of course I'm not here to just complain, but to provide feedback that can help the game stay fun and be better, so I'll also give a couple suggestions on how to fix this, most likely unintended effect.

Suggestion 1: Give projectile based weapons (or just the slowest or heavy hitting ones... well just bows if needed) an edge against shield gating by letting a bigger percentage of damage pass trough, the right amount so weaker fooder enemies can be skewed as intended by this class of weapons, but not high enough so tankier enemies shields are meaningless.

Suggestion 2: Give Punch-trough (or projectile based weapons... just bow projectiles) a natural % bypass of shields, like before, high enough so weaker enemies don't feel tanky, but not that high so tanky enemies actually feel like a threat you want to headshot 100% of the time.

Sincerely hope you can take this into account. Game is great, and I hope it keeps getting better

PD: Someone told me to use lenz, but i'm talking about the design flaw of taking out of the equation virtually a whole class of weapon as a viable option for a big chunk of the game. (I assume this is a simple oversight as it sometimes happen.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Bidz
edited cuz bad spelling and grammar, might edit again if I spot more of those

[angel_bee]

Please allow magnetic procs to disable shield gating for the duration of the status effect!! It would give magnetic damage a really great reason to be used!

[jjpdn]

It looks like you really need to build for Corpus now. Being having trouble with Grinner builds against them. Now that they are stronger, however, I think their damage needs a nerf. Fortuna Corpus kill you real fast in comparison to high level Grineer.

[rainy]

Can there be a visual effect for the shield gates? Like a shrinking aura or column to help time when the damage reduction wears out.This helps gamify enemy shields so the player can delay themselves, and so the player them-self can visually see what extra time they have.

[JaxHatesMe]

The fact that arbi drones take 2 hits to kill no matter what is real annoying however i like the shield gating for literally everything else

[Lone_Dude]

What about pets? They kiiiinda need shield-gating too? Or is it going to be added along with other pet improvements? 

[limernest]

Shield gating for players is great, shield gating for NPCs needs to go.

There's something that feels inherently bad about even low level 5 corpus crewmen sometimes taking two hits minimum to kill due to their shield gate, even when I'm hitting them with fully modded and formaed melee weapons that would shred level 50+ Grineer instantly. This also punishes using high damage per shot weapons such as sniper rifles, bows, and launchers

The constant shield regeneration on high level corpus is similarly annoying, especially when coupled with units like shield ospreys that can almost instantly replenish shields of multiple units as well as boost their regeneration rate. These factors combined make it such that ironically, the Corpus now feel tankier than Grineer in terms of EHP of equivalent units, given their ability to instantly boost their defenses. The regeneration also kills DOT based builds, simply because the DOT damage can't easily out damage the innate shield regen.

I know toxin damage still bypasses shields, and I envision having to create toxin based builds just to deal with the Corpus simply because they shields seem more annoying to remove now. But cheesing the shield mechanic still doesn't change the fact that the corpus faction overall just doesn't feel as enjoyable or rewarding to fight against.

Compared to Grineer, they now have higher damage, higher EHP, more access to knockdowns and disablers (see shockwave MOAs, Terra corpus etc.), immunity to warframe powers through Nullifiers, Bursas and Combas, immunity to DOTs due to shield regen and shield restoring units, and brief damage immunity due to shield gating. They also give less affinity per kill, and are less conducive to farming runs simply because most corpus units cannot be dismembered for Desecration purposes. It's not fun to fight Corpus in general, especially at high levels. Anecdotally, Corpus arbitrations are almost always less popular than Grineer or Infested ones simply because of all these factors.

I like most of the other changes in the update, but considering how most of the upcoming content is Corpus based, some big overhauls have to be done to the faction overall. One of these should be the removal of shield gating from NPCs completely.

[xNefas]

I'm fine with shield gating outside of arbitration drones getting the bonus as well. They were annoying enough to deal with in long arbitrations but now that has been amplified

[FullMetalFox]

So Hildryn was one of my favorite frames, and im one of those who dont run around just abusing her shield gating with recharge mods and a dragon key.
While i really appreciate this change for the majority of squishy frames, but it feels like you completly forgot to care about the one frame that introduced Shield Gating as her passive.
Combined with the shield recharge changes she feels a lot weaker now, seems like i either have to use the 3 seconds to now evade and hide for a recharge and Pillage pulse, or reduce my damage output of support abilities further to reduce the shield recharge delay.

I used to be able to just use the amount of shield she recharged while gating to make an initial pillage pulse, its risky if there are not enough enemies around to regain a full shield for the next shield gate, but it was worth it. Now to do that i would have to replace one mod, even with replacing the weakest mod in my build i would loose a fair deal of area of effect on all of her abilities, which is rather important for her support function and pillage, or loose a large portion of survivability or overall power.

Before this change she was in a good spot IMHO, not to weak, but not as overpowered as Saryn, Wukong, etc. But now im really unhappy about her current spot.
Please change her Passive to include a native recharge delay so she performs as before this change.

Edited March 6, 2020 by FullMetalFox

[Ikusias]

2 hours ago, limernest said:

Shield gating for players is great, shield gating for NPCs needs to go.

There's something that feels inherently bad about even low level 5 corpus crewmen sometimes taking two hits minimum to kill due to their shield gate, even when I'm hitting them with fully modded and formaed melee weapons that would shred level 50+ Grineer instantly. This also punishes using high damage per shot weapons such as sniper rifles, bows, and launchers

The constant shield regeneration on high level corpus is similarly annoying, especially when coupled with units like shield ospreys that can almost instantly replenish shields of multiple units as well as boost their regeneration rate. These factors combined make it such that ironically, the Corpus now feel tankier than Grineer in terms of EHP of equivalent units, given their ability to instantly boost their defenses. The regeneration also kills DOT based builds, simply because the DOT damage can't easily out damage the innate shield regen.

I know toxin damage still bypasses shields, and I envision having to create toxin based builds just to deal with the Corpus simply because they shields seem more annoying to remove now. But cheesing the shield mechanic still doesn't change the fact that the corpus faction overall just doesn't feel as enjoyable or rewarding to fight against.

Compared to Grineer, they now have higher damage, higher EHP, more access to knockdowns and disablers (see shockwave MOAs, Terra corpus etc.), immunity to warframe powers through Nullifiers, Bursas and Combas, immunity to DOTs due to shield regen and shield restoring units, and brief damage immunity due to shield gating. They also give less affinity per kill, and are less conducive to farming runs simply because most corpus units cannot be dismembered for Desecration purposes. It's not fun to fight Corpus in general, especially at high levels. Anecdotally, Corpus arbitrations are almost always less popular than Grineer or Infested ones simply because of all these factors.

I like most of the other changes in the update, but considering how most of the upcoming content is Corpus based, some big overhauls have to be done to the faction overall. One of these should be the removal of shield gating from NPCs completely.

Same opinion here, I don't think npcs should have the same benefits of players at all, even the "reduced" shield gating they got made most units in Orb Vallis much more annoying to deal with, this together with the mess you made of AoE weapons and the other nuisances above made the Corpus the crappiest faction to deal with

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

4 seconds delay at 0 shields before they start recharging again when they go to 0 and thus trigger the gating is too much. period

Some frames have meanings to circumvent this ( mag , hyldrin, harrow eventually after using penance can recast condemn and restores them , volt capacitance etc )

Frames that can use invisibility also are good to go they can benefit of the gate, recast invis and get out of the heat so that 4  secs cooldown isn't an issue but for all the others staying at 0 shields for 4 seconds is too much.

Consider reducing the delay from 4 to 2 seconds or something like that

Edited March 6, 2020 by arm4geddon-117

[Fellas92]

5 hours ago, xNefas said:

I'm fine with shield gating outside of arbitration drones getting the bonus as well. They were annoying enough to deal with in long arbitrations but now that has been amplified

Agree. The drones don't seem to have a proper weak spot, so shooting them is more annoying.

 

5 hours ago, limernest said:

There's something that feels inherently bad about even low level 5 corpus crewmen sometimes taking two hits minimum to kill due to their shield gate

Yeah... when a MR28 cries that he can't one shot a level 5 unit, it's pathetic if you ask me.

I have no problem with high level corpus units anywhere, so no idea what you're complaining about, aside from the topic mentioned above - arbitration drone shield gating.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Fellas92

[laney_family]

While not directly related

It feels like builds from before the change are needing to be adjusted with different mods now that damage has changed.  Meaning old forma'd slots for these builds need to adjust.  As such I have resubmitted a request for universal forma polarities I submitted back in October.  General concept is that I feel forma should be more meaningful; so that once we take the time to earn the forma, spend 24 hours and resources cooking it, then max a weapon, apply the forma, and max it again, we end up with a slot that accepts any polarity at half cost rather than just one polarity as we have currently.  This solves the original request, more flexible builds, and the issue where our old builds are now broken.  I also feel this would increase the general desire to forma more slots.

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by laney_family
grammar

[aspeedninja]

It feels really good but with they 25 damage reduction shields feels a little bit to powerful  Whether it's the damage that needs to be buffed Order Shields that need to be nerfed I don't know but the game feels a little bit so easy right now

[xChibix]

Shield gating feels pretty neat but it feels way too abusable with shield based frames like Mag. I can have my shields removed by a lv 160 Bombard and just press 3 ,gain 7 shields, and I'm safe for the next second. Obviously the survivability is limited by energy and the amount of damage sources but I feel this current iteration of not requiring your shield to charge any amount before shield gating comes back is also the reason why Arcane Aegis has such an abysmal procc chance and cannot be refreshed which just feels weird/ bad.

 

Personally I would like to see the delay from fully depleted shields reduced to 3 seconds (what it was prior to change), keep partial depletion delay at 1 second, allow Aegis to refresh it's duration, and require a minimum of like 50% shields to be recharged to activate the shield gate again (or even partial effect of the shield gate like disallowing the bleedover and require 100% recharge for the ~1s invulnerability after shields are broke).

Edited March 6, 2020 by xChibix

[Neuroszima]

On 2020-03-02 at 6:35 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Shield Gating: Friend and Foe
Friend: First, let’s answer ‘What is Shield Gating?’ when it applies to you as a player. In this implementation, Shield Gating is the mechanic of preventing an instance of lethal (‘1-shot’) damage if you have Shields active. Simply put, the goal is to reduce the number of ‘1-shots’ you take when your shields are up, particularly for Shield-based frames.

When any shields are active, an incoming hit that depletes your last bit of Shields will not continue into your Health pool, and also triggers a brief time where your Health is protected. Once that period is over you can take Health damage normally. Additionally, you will no longer take Slash Status Effect damage to your Health while Shields are up. 

Foe: Enemies - Corpus in particular - also have received a bit of a Shield Gating, but with skillful gameplay you can overcome this. Any Headshots or shots to Weakspots  completely bypass Corpus enemy Shield Gating. In addition, 5% of the damage dealt when hitting the shield gate will target enemy Health - this allows you to take your Forma fueled weapons back to low level enemies and hit them hard instead of hitting the shield gate.

The goal here is to make Shields a mechanic you want to play against with Mods (Auras, Elemental) or to bypass with skill (Headshots). Slash Status Effects will now deal damage over time to Shields, Toxin damage remains as-is (bypassing Shields to directly affect enemy Health). Damage from Warframe Abilities will ignore the enemy Shield Gate (i.e if an instance of Damage from an ability is greater than the Shield value, it will go into health as well). 

Why:
Giving both Friend and Foe shield gating has two purposes: we want to reward skill a bit more in all Corpus missions, and give the ‘squishier’ frames a bit more viable edge and a chance to really explore Shield-focused builds. Toxin Damage and Status Effects are still your friend against Corpus or Shielded enemies! 

Please remember to leave your feedback in a constructive and civil manner! Remember, this thread is for FEEDBACK ONLY. If you have a bug, please make sure you submit your bug on this thread and follow the new guidelines!

Well, with skill you are right.

Try to aim a headshot on one of the conclave players.

Huh? you say you can't? well "just tap heads LMAO"

In more polite words. What you created in conclave with this change is you dramatically increased skill gap between pro and noob-skilled players. Nice move.