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Warframe Revised: Shield Gating Megathread

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4 hours ago, xChibix said:

It would be nice to have an indicator when you will get the invulnerability when shields are broken, but the actual part of shield gate, the bleedover prevention, is present regardless of how many shields you have and whether they have fully charged or not.

If this is true, would the Arcane that restores shields over time effectively make you immortal, since you'd regenerate shields between every attack? No bleedover would mean no health damage as long as that Arcane's active.

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1 hour ago, DeltaPangaea said:

If this is true, would the Arcane that restores shields over time effectively make you immortal, since you'd regenerate shields between every attack? No bleedover would mean no health damage as long as that Arcane's active.

Pretty much, but I would imagine it's still possible to die if your taking enough fire or your shield regen isn't high enough.

 

You can try it yourself by spawning in a lv 100+ Bombard and either a frame that can restore shields (like Mag) or using any of the Augur mods.

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On 2020-03-07 at 1:35 PM, Grey_Fenn said:

you do need to have hit full shields since the last gating.

Then i hope they change Redirection since having higher shield in higher level wouldn't be as viable as shield recharge mod.

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the shield gating changes made some warframes immensely more useable now.

Mag, let's be honest here, has always been good- I feel there's just a stigma towards her being a starter frame that shouldn't be a starter frame. her powers are a bit strange, she's squishy, and requires a few key mods to be viable - she's energy hungry and very ability-dependant. people pick her as a starter thinking "yay, Xmen's Magneto!" and get dumpstered by just not having access to mods or operator abilities.

before shield gating she was quite good with the counter pulse augment (allowing her to simply jam guns) and Magnetize creating massive safe-zones.

with shield gating she's insane. my new build only has stock shields and no survivability mods AT ALL, but 200%+ strength and 170% efficiency, paired with Zenurik. I can spam Polarize all day, and in doing so, I instantly refill more than 450 shields. ssssooooooo. considering Polarize cast time is less than 1 second, and I have a full second of invulnerability... and I legitimately can spam this all day... and a single use jams the guns of every enemy nearby, letting my shields regen and allowing me to reposition with cover and / or magnetic bubbles... dear god. I legitimately have a hard time dying, now. if that wasn't enough, the reduced armor amounts make Polarize stupid powerful. two or three casts and everyone nearby has no armor, that's without a super energy hungry high strength build. just delicious. And if I manage to squeeze Adaptation into this, we're in a situation where after one or two polarize casts I'm having 90% DR on top of 25% shield-innate DR, on a frame that freely refills shields and even gets overshields. dear god. Mag is... a tank, now?!

Harrow has not been tested yet, but I imagine it is equaly bonkers not. my Harrow is an extremely strong build that had immense energy feedback loops via thurible, could maintain Covenant for a very long time (solo mot, I once maintained it for 40 minutes, holy S#&$) and had otherworldly firerate, etc, but a single high-level rocket hitting me at the wrong time. with shield gating, it's probably going to require a huge lapse on my part to let the feedback loop break again.

More hilariously, Banshee. oh god, Banshee, how you've gotten a buff. much simpler armor means I can replace the armor-shred augment for a different mod or even an augment. She's always been insanely destructive with Sonar, but these additions give her a lot more room to breathe. in particular: combining shield gating with Savage Silence and a Skiajati. like, man. where once I had to parkour non-stop and got dumpstered if I mis-timed a move by half a second, now I not only don't instantly die, I have a full SECOND to rush at an enemy and stun them with 3, following up with Skiajati invisible-granting finisher and fleeing the scene with impunity.

Rhino no longer needs to re-cast his Iron skin either, so Iron Shrapnel is no longer a near-mandatory QoL mod. like, if anything bad happens? your Iron Skin pops, then your shield pops, and you have a full second to press 2, go invincible AGAIN, and buffer Iron Skin. Revenant is likely in the same situation now.

Gara and Mesa are different. they're insaaaaanely tanky if built properly, moreso now because shields can be abused immensely. you see, both these frames have INCREDIBLE damage-reduction abilities. they stack with Adaptation. this applies on shields. shields now have 25% innate DR, which they did not have. on top of that, the most common status effect that could bypass shields - Slash - no longer bypasses them in any way. Gara built like this with Taxon and that sentinel shield recharge mod... y e a h... good luck dying.

Taxon in general has become a lot more desireable. it was already a nifty, handy little sentinel that benefited a few niche builds, but now it's a lot more useful across the board, especialy with Exilus mods mostly making Carrier less mandatory. okay, sure, maybe you still need Carrier on things like Kohm, but 99% of the remaining guns (especialy with EHP changes and status stacking) are now much more ammo-efficient and get by just with basic mutation mods, some not even upgraded in any way.

I think some mods, like the Augur (I think it's augur) and Brief Respite turning up a lot more from now on, due to their help with shield maintenance. tanky shield builds like Mea or Gara (there ARE others) with no means of directly recharging shields are probably going to get a massive boost in using this mod set.

Rakta Dark Dagger is now an incredibly strong personal defense melee. full status + weeping wounds, healing return, and attack speed, you're going to find yourself with a lightning-fast dagger that heals you quickly (healing return is excelent in fast status melee, try it on Sarpa it's insane) but also refills your shields (And even overshields) brutal fast, while dousing an enemy in deadly status procs. it can easily surpass 100% status chance, has focused status procs from stance, and it's FAST. so, holy moly.

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On 2020-03-07 at 3:41 AM, Grey_Fenn said:

A little feedback on new shield audio/visual effects:  

The new 'shield is recharging' sound effect - I like this; it is noticeable, intuitive and not intrusive.  Well done.

The new 'shields are down' visual effect - I mostly like this.  I like the fact that it is noticeable all over the screen (instead of just a corner of the UI).  It feels a bit more intrusive than it needs to be though - I do need to see what's going on and it definitely interferes with that (momentarily, but still it is distracting).  I'd suggest an increase in the transparency of the effect so it's still very noticeable but doesn't block my screen so much.

The shield-break effects aren't new, from what I can tell (and remember), they just broke it a while back (Railjack pre-build) and left it completely absent until now.

13 hours ago, Scorn said:

Would be nice to have an icon that indicates whether the shield gate is available.

i.e. It indicates whether you've let your shields fully recharge, at a glance. Did your shields fill to full before that chip of damage while you weren't looking? Will it gate the next heavy attack?

12 hours ago, xChibix said:

It would be nice to have an indicator when you will get the invulnerability when shields are broken, but the actual part of shield gate, the bleedover prevention, is present regardless of how many shields you have and whether they have fully charged or not.

There is an extra animation effect on the shield bar, same as Hildryn had on hers / gave to others through Haven, which shows your gate viability. It's somewhat subtle until you know what you're looking for.

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  1. There should be an indicator while Shield Gate is active;
  2. Shield Capacity matters. For each 100 additional Shields (include ProtoShields) Warframe will get extra 0.1s of protection. But no more than 3 seconds;
    1. Example: A Warframe has 300 base shields (at max rank) - 1s of protection. Equipping maxed Redirection will give you 740 Shields in total. That means you have 1.44s of protection. ( ( ( CurrentCapacity - BaseShields ) / 100 ) * ExtraSeconds ) + BaseShieldGateDuration = ( ( ( 740 - 300 ) / 100 ) * 0.1 ) + 1 = 1.44s
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Seconding the removal of shield gating for Corpus cameras. They don't have weak spots, so you can't oneshot them.

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5% seems a bit low for enemy shield-gating overflow. I think 10% would be more reasonable.

Shield-gating working for any amount of shields seems like it might be a bit too powerful. Maybe scale the invulnerability by portion of shields lost when shield-gate activated? For example: 0.5-1.5s depending on shield-level (it'll generally be on the lower end, close to 0.5s). It should also go without saying that this should be unique to Tenno, this will probably be unreasonable on enemies.

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1 hour ago, MercuryDjinni said:

Seconding the removal of shield gating for Corpus cameras.

You sure that's not just a matter of how nerfed the AoEs have gotten? 

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On 2020-03-05 at 11:38 AM, UMARRR said:

I know that not a lot of people play Hildryn and that's why there is not a big cry out about this, but the shield recharge delay changes are a HUGE nerf to her survivability.

before the update at least the shields started to recharge to protect your tiny amount of 300 - 400 hp (with mods!) while being protected through the 3 sec invulnerability passive. now it takes the shields 4 seconds 'til they start to recharge, in case i don't want to reduce recharge delay with a mod for the cost of having even lower hp or what ever???

this makes a frame that was hard to master even less attractive. and meanwhile saryn is still killing complete maps with one move?

just make an exception and let her keep the 1 sec recharge delay. or show me how you survive lvl 100+ enemies without constantly having to switch to operator void mode to get shields back up because for 1 full second your tiny hp bar is completely unprotected while your 5k shields can be ripped down in a matter of seconds. this is neither challenging nor fun.

this is a huge nerf to hildryn, at least before the changes with the invulnerability charging your shields you could then use pillage to restore them fully, now the don't charge at all, what's the point of that? to run behind cover? in a horde like game? that just doesn't work. At least shields now take less damage so that's something, I guess.

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Posted (edited)

Friend: feels like it makes the player much more resilient, probably paired with the 25% DR and the fact shields don't take extra 50% damage from Impact damage. Makes the level 100 Kuva Shield Lancer popping behind you much less scary. Probably over the top on stealth frames that already had Rolling Guard available.

Absurd with Rakta Dark Dagger though it behaves inconsistently when under heavy fire.

Would really like to see the change also applied to sentinels, would make them last a bit longer vs. Bombards and the like.

Foe: Really nice that the Corpus deserves though-out loadouts now. Corrosive(+heat) was already very mediocre against them, but now having to factor shields makes planing loadouts more interesting. Either Magnetic or Toxin get the job done though it's counterproductive to mix the two, and the 50% damage penalty on Magnetic damage to Alloy armor seems non-sensical. Battacor ends up very strong currently.

All in all mostly pleased with the changes.

edit: enemy shield gate is majorly annoying on some low rate of fire explosive weapons that are IMO already struggling to get the job done and can't headshot, such as Tonkor.

Edited by S0b3rt00th
additional feedback
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On 2020-03-05 at 4:59 PM, mrbubblepants said:

Shield  gating corpus just makes them more irritating to play. Id rather just skip them then try to aim at weak points while surrounded by them. it wont make them more challenging just harder to cheese. Im a cheese enthusiast i like feeling all powerful.

honestly, i can't see any different to before when it comes to fighting even about lvl100++ corpus - they still die like flies left and right, regardless of what kind of damage type i use. just them have their little extra 'bat of an eye' time to live...

On 2020-03-05 at 9:32 PM, Galuf said:

tl;dr; I don't think that full damage immunity is a good design choice as it can be abused and damage immunity is bad overall. I fear for newer or not minmaxed players against high level corpus.

though such players shouldn't even be in the situation meeting them. a mr3 player with mk0 gear should not fight against lvl80++ enemies of any type. also, so far failed to see any advantage of the gate for corpus units - it's really so short an immunity, it could have been ignored too.

for frames though, the change is noticable and usefull while still not overpowered.

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Is there any reason in particular as to why our sentinels don't have shield gating yet?

They already are a weak bunch so you'd assume that these shield-gating changes would also affect them. The same could be said about their health/shield/armor. Have they gotten the new TENNO health, shields, or armor with this update to help with their survivability?

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Even at lvl 50 the shields are regenerating so fast that Khora's 4 can't kill several of the corpus units over time. I think it is the regeneration time but also combined with the changes to slash not by passing shields.

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Posted (edited)

While I'm fine with making the COrpus a little tougher and more in lined with the Grineer, I don't think Corpus should have a..."constant health replenishing" mechanic. namely, their shield. 

The thing is, Corpus was already a tough faction to fight against, even before this whole shield gate thing. Of course the Grineer were tougher to take down most of the time but now that their armor scaling is reduced I don't think that's the case anymore. If anything, Grineer is easier to take down more than the Corpus because of how their HP works with armor, they're more vulnerable to a wider range of damage types and elemental combos. 

Most Corpus enemies didn't take as long to kill, yes, but they made up for all that with their insane damage. Let's be honest, the Corpus deals a lot more damage than the Grineer. Like the enemies in Orb Vallis for example, plus they have a lot of annoying units as well, like the Nullifiers, Sapping Ospreys, Techs,etc...

So yeah, I don't even think Corpus needs the full shield gate package thing anymore, if anything, at all, or just make their shield break stops lethal damage with 5% dmg spill over and that's it imo. The Corpus were and still are probably the most annoying faction to fight against, I think we can all agree on that. 

Yknow, I wouldn't even mind if DE just removes the whole shield gate to them completely. With the dmg types and elementals reworks, plus the armor scaling reduction of the Grineer. I think they're pretty on par with each other in terms of how beefy they are now, even without the shield gate stuff. Corpus wasn't THAT weak. 

Shield Ospreys already instantly grant Corpus shield and constant recharge already, thus giving Corpus immediate shield gating, I don't think we need to double down on it. 

Edited by SprinKah
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Mag is god.
All frames are even harder to kill now.
Sometimes i need to two shot corpus instead of one shot.
OK.

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As it is right now, certain units are nearly impossible to kill in one shot, making high damage per hit weapons even less desirable against the Corpus. Oxium Osprey can shrug off massive hits that should kill it in one hit, thanks to its puny amount of shields. And this is specifically a problem with Osprey, because they don't have a weakpoint to shoot to bypass the shields gate. But, thanks to how inconsistent weakpoint hit detection has always been in this game, this can easily happen with other units as well.

I feel like there should be a limit to how much damage the shields gate can stop. Dealing enough damage beyond (Double? Triple?) the target's shield points in a single hit should bypass the shield gate and damage their health like normal. It seems kind of silly that a couple hundred points of shields are able to absorb tens of thousands of points of damage no problem.

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Posted (edited)

May as well toss out heavy hitting slow-fire weapons unless you're great at rapidly hitting crowds of corpus with headshots.

I should get one of their shields in real life, that way I can play in traffic and as long as my head isnt run over I'll be fine if a truck hits me

 

But yeah, I always thought of Corpus as "utility" enemies more than tanks. Able to dish out damage and weird specific counters to us like nullifiers, bursas, combas and bosses that can hop all over the place was a nice compensation to their lesser survivability. Giving them this shield gate limits how we deal with them even more down to basically "use a fast full auto weapon". I like my slow, heavy hitters so much more, but there's not a lot of justification for using them against corpus since, while I can GET headshots, I'm not some pro widowmaker main that can land every single one, so it's either not worth it to bring them, or not worth it to run corpus missions.

Of course, the problem is a bit less of a concern at higher levels, where you would barely even notice the shield gate trigger in the first place, but at that point there's no reason to have the gate anyway, since we wont really notice it.

TL;DR shield gate enemies are tedious at low levels and pointless at high levels

Edited by Maugre
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3 hours ago, Maugre said:

May as well toss out heavy hitting slow-fire weapons unless you're great at rapidly hitting crowds of corpus with headshots.

I should get one of their shields in real life, that way I can play in traffic and as long as my head isnt run over I'll be fine if a truck hits me

 

But yeah, I always thought of Corpus as "utility" enemies more than tanks. Able to dish out damage and weird specific counters to us like nullifiers, bursas, combas and bosses that can hop all over the place was a nice compensation to their lesser survivability. Giving them this shield gate limits how we deal with them even more down to basically "use a fast full auto weapon". I like my slow, heavy hitters so much more, but there's not a lot of justification for using them against corpus since, while I can GET headshots, I'm not some pro widowmaker main that can land every single one, so it's either not worth it to bring them, or not worth it to run corpus missions.

Of course, the problem is a bit less of a concern at higher levels, where you would barely even notice the shield gate trigger in the first place, but at that point there's no reason to have the gate anyway, since we wont really notice it.

TL;DR shield gate enemies are tedious at low levels and pointless at high levels

Agree with you there, the Grineer has always seemed to me to be quite...simple in their advances, just rockets and explodies. While Corpus has all these crazy tech and stuff and deal a lot of damage.

Grineer is like the Orkz and the Corpus are like the Tau from 40K

Corpus has always been very versatile in terms of damage dealing and while the Grineer does deal a fair amount of damage, they don't shred warframes like the Corpus do, but they made up with their durability. 

Now that Armor scaling is reduced on the Grineer, I don't think giving Corpus shield gating to the is really necessary anymore.

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On 2020-03-05 at 8:52 AM, Jeancly said:

Yes please, don't just leave hyldrin there for months without a passive, just fix her immediatly...

chroma has not had a passive for years tho. 

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1 hour ago, hazerddex said:

chroma has not had a passive for years tho. 

I mean, TECHNICALLY his passive is the whole "color determines type" thing.

imo it barely counts, but.. that's what DE is going with.

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5 hours ago, Maugre said:

I mean, TECHNICALLY his passive is the whole "color determines type" thing.

imo it barely counts, but.. that's what DE is going with.

by that logic equinox has two passives.

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Posted (edited)

Just a quick post. Shield gating providing a fixed time invulnerability without any form of scaling cooldown, strength or other form abuse prevention is going to make low shield builds the meta. As enemy damage increases, the portion of damage blocked by the invuln is going to keep increasing while damage blocked by shields does not, meaning builds will revolve around resetting the invuln cooldown while invulnerable. We already see this with hildryn. 

My suggestion is to make the invulnerability period scale linearly with the percentage of your shields versus their standard capacity. +200% shields = +200% invuln length. The key that reduces shields by 75% = 75% reduced invuln length. Hildryns passive reworked into a multiplicative increase to shield capacity or invulnerability time.

To make this change work completely, though, shield gate abuse would need to be fixed. Unless we want it I guess? Prevent all forms of shield recharge, for a duration equal to the invulnerability period + 1s, during this time shield recharge is added to a buffer which recharges your shields during the invulnerability period but cannot, under any circumstances, fully replenish shields. Once the timer completes, the buffer is cleared and instantly added to your shields.

I believe this would put shields into a much stronger position, while making it possible to build for shields and not against them, by coupling shield gating with your builds shield strength, and removing any form of abuse that extends from instantly replenishing shields, which also encouraged lowering your shields.

Edit: enemy shield gating not included, that needs a whole post of it's own.

Edited by Drago55577
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I've got a Banshee with adaptation and hunter adrenaline. Since shield gating became a thing, I've found her survivability go through the roof, but her energy balance has dropped significantly, as I usually only take stray bullets. And the one that breaksmy shields usually gives me 50 or so energy. 

For those who wonder, it's a sonar resonance build, with vitality, adaptation, strength mods. And a Furis with Winds of Purity. 

 

I find myself wondering if shield gating could be changed to a slider sort of way, able to go from its current version, to something that only provides damage reduction, kind of like Nezha's Warding Halo. 

The reasoning being that most of my hunter adrenaline / rage builds have been having problems with their shields not staying down long enough. Which is further exacerbated by the use of Augur mods. 

 

On the other hand, frames like Ivara, Loki, Limbo just to name those three, have greatly benefitted from shield gating, and wouldn't benefit as much from shields just acting as health damage reduction. 

 

It has really helped the most fragile, but caused a few inconveniences for those who require health damage to keep going. 

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