Warframe Revised: Shield Gating Megathread

[Maugre]

13 hours ago, hazerddex said:

by that logic equinox has two passives.

Hey, I never said I agreed with the logic.

[kapn655321]

Could Rage and Hunter's Adrenaline remove shield gating while equipped?
Could Quick Thinking function a touch more like shield gating?

[Chroia]

Can't speak to Foe shield gating, as I've basically not fought Corpus since the update.
That said:
I like that critical volume shots bypass the shield gating.
The problem, however, is that with Gas now proccing Gas DoTs, Magnetic only affecting shield 'health' and Toxin bypassing it entirely - as well as Techs being beefy MFers, I wouldn't bother modding for anything but Toxin/Bane against 'vanilla' Corpus units.
Vapos Corpus are a better balanced, lesser offender in this regard, iirc.
Orb Vallis Corpus, on the other hand... Yikes.

 

As to Friend shield gating, I'm liking it quite a lot.
I much prefer 'skill' frames to 'stat' frames - which tend to be significantly less tanky, and the lack of gibbing is felt.
It doesn't necessarily save me, but it gives me the capacity to react, where before it was just 'boom dead wait wtf killed me?'

[kapn655321]

One thing I will say for certain... the Shield Gate (& -aimbot) finally makes Vox Solaris missions good to play.
Might want to find a way to re-entice people back out there to discover that for themselves.

[rstripn]

Shield gating on Tenno:

Well done.

1) There were an awful lot of people playing Hildryn just for this mechanic, so this change increases build diversity.

2) This actually makes shields useful for frames like Valkyr, Rhino, etc with lower maximums.

3) Makes shield recharge mods potentially meaningful.

 

Shield gating on enemies:

I like it! Corpus needed a pick-me-up in general and this is a fun way to add it. No longer will nullifiers be the only meaningful Corpus defense.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

Please please please make Arbitration Drones’ whole body count as a weak point for shield gating purposes. Don’t have to remove it, technically, just remove it using mechanics already present in the game.

[sorcer3r]

Shield Gate is great.

But IMO it is a huge bow nerf. 

Bows need a buff (as always;) ) or bows should ignore shield gating.

[(XBOX)Me555]

Shield gating single-handedly turned what would have been one of the best updates the game has ever seen into one of the worst. Level 50 Corpus are surviving hits that previously one-shot level 150s. Either get rid of it or significantly increase the amount of damage that breaks through the gate (much rather prefer just getting rid of it). It's not much better when it comes to how it affects the players. It was already difficult enough to die to anything under level 120 before the update, but now we're basically unkillable even on squishy frames. Extremely bad change all-around.

 

The main issue with the enemy shield gating is that it goes against what this update was trying to accomplish with the Grineer, which was to open up new pathways for build diversity. Previously we were pigeon-holed into finding ways to avoid the Grineer armor and as soon as that issue gets fixed, we're now being pigeon-holed into avoiding the Corpus shield-gating. Making enemies more difficult is something I think is great, but not at the cost of severely limiting which weapons we can use against those enemies.  As it stands, it's less of a difficulty increase and more of just an annoyance. Currently, slower/hard-hitting weapons have almost no pathway towards efficiently killing even mid-level Corpus.

Edited March 16, 2020 by (XB1)Me555

[Flying_Scorpion]

Shield Gating seems great overall. And so does shield resistances on the Tenno. It helps make a lot of squishier Warframes become more viable, especially when playing Solo. I think you might have also removed Hildryn's ability to make the Railjack invulnerable when it's shields go down - which is very fair from a balance standpoint. Is shield gating or the damage resistance of 25% across the board applied to Railjacks?

 

Anyway, I am happy with the changes, that's for sure. I saw a post on Reddit about shield gating being a problem against the drones in Arbitrations - but to be honest...that's pretty easy to work around. Just use a faster firing weapon, or have a secondary with magnetic. Boom, problem solved. Perhaps arbitration drones should have a weakspot so that they can still be one shot by skilled players. Wouldn't that be pretty epic to watch on a livestream?

 

Anyway, thanks for the changes guys. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Flying_Scorpion

[(XBOX)Roaring Toad]

They need to adjust the enemy Shield Gate 5% damage bleed for weapons that can't land headshots easilly, such as most explosive weapons and Melee heavy attacks specifically. They should have at least a minimum of 50% damage bleed since they are supposed to be hard hitting weapon types but they take 2 hits to kill even basic enemy troops at mid levels. Explosive weapons are in a pretty bad spot as is, something like an Ogris shouldn't be two shot killing fodder. 

I also think that a 5% damage bleed in general is too harsh, somewhere around 20% would be more reasonable. Or at least have it adjusted for shield drones as their weak spot is already hard enough to hit, so taking 2 shots to kill them with bows, Explosives, snipers and other slow firing weapons is pretty crazy. I've also noticed that you can't bypass shield gates on some enemies with headshots, Corpus Tech's are one of them. My crit Lanka with a crit damage, damage and multishot riven could body shot kill them before the update at level 150, but now it can't even kill on a red crit headshot. Fusion Moa's seem to ignore percision damage too, probably more enemies like that, but i haven't tested every shielded enemy. 

Edited March 17, 2020 by (XB1)Roaring Toad

[(XBOX)HollowCube987]

Shield Gating for enemies is a double edged sword. It makes killing enemies with well placed headshots more rewarding than before, but makes a few problems arise.

A good portion of Corpus enemies move around sporadically, have really hard to hit weak points, and/or have no weak points whatsoever. Most Moas have tiny heads in comparison to their bodies, but have a backpack that does even more damage as compensation. Anti and Fusion Moas have no headshot multiplier, and no other weakpoint. Drones have microscopic heads and move sporadically, making bodyshots hard to pull off as is. Arbitration Drones have no weak points, and still get shield gating despite not being Corpus in origin.

An easy way to counteract this is to significantly increase the percentage of damage an enemy takes after the shield gate is broken with a body shot. 5% is extremely low, and seems to neuter a Rattleguts Haymarker Splat Kitgun more than it does a Rattleguts Gibber Splat if they had the same build.

Edited March 20, 2020 by (XB1)HollowCube987

[OmegaVoid]

On 2020-03-02 at 5:35 PM, [DE]Bear said:

When any shields are active, an incoming hit that depletes your last bit of Shields will not continue into your Health pool, and also triggers a brief time where your Health is protected.

Regarding Capture missions: this mechanic has rendered the scary Corpus Target with the Glaxion not scary any more. I think it's a shame.

[(XBOX)HollowCube987]

On 2020-03-16 at 7:46 PM, Flying_Scorpion said:

Just use a faster firing weapon, or have a secondary with magnetic. Boom, problem solved.

I speak for the people who prefer Power rather than Speed. I don't WANT to use a faster firing weapon. I don't have the time to fire 90 bullets into a person, reload, and do the same to someone else. I want one slow, impactful bullet for each enemy. Fast weapons gain an unfair advantage over slow ones because the shield gate doesn't even matter.

You aren't supposed to one shot anybody with the Viper. You're supposed to unload your 14 bullet magazine into someone as fast as possible. You aren't supposed to take three magazines to kill someone with a Rubico Prime. You're supposed to kill someone with one shot, regardless of where you hit them. But  you can't anymore because the Shield Drone you were trying to take down moves as sporadically as the Grineer Manics, so you miss the head and shoot a wing, and somehow that's still your fault.

It doesn't feel fair to have to double tap a level 45 Railgun MOA when the same Euphona Prime shot three 3 months ago would have sent it to Jupiter and turn it's weird robot fanny pack into an orbiting satellite, while Twin Grakata users don't have any problems aiming for the body because nothing changed for them.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

Shield gating has turned the grendel slog into an absolute nightmare.  With few if any unmodded weapons that can dispatch enemies, the constant deployment of shield drones means the shield gating on the corpus enemies you fight is rediculous.

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by (XB1)Tucker D Dawg

[Ikyr0]

Shield gating is an excellent mechanic, and a necessary QoL change. But you guys aren't really done here.

1) You need to give shield frames a reason to slot Redirection. Right now, shield tanks are simply abusing the shield gate mechanic by constantly resetting the shield gate. They are still running armor/vitality tanks underneath. Shield tanking needs to be its own thing. Please add a mod similar to Steel Fibre that increases DR of shields. Make it clear which frames are supposed to be shield tanking by making their armor and vitality lower. Make a list of these frames and adjust the numbers accordingly (for example, Mag, Volt, Nyx, etc). Then, have a few frames that could go either way, or maybe a hybrid. With this change you would be adding a lot of build variety.

2) Please add a visual cue for when the shield breaks. Like an electrical burst around he frame. The sounds is alright, but it often gets drowned out.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Ikyr0

[ganjou234]

Sentinels dont seem to benefit from shield gating...a simple nova in high level missions kill em...

[Kaizal]

On 2020-03-05 at 7:00 PM, Loza03 said:

I've not tested against enemies enough to be certain yet, but I have some words for players.

 

For the most part, I think this is pretty healthy. My own playstyle (hit-and-run Limbo) has been improved by this, and it feels a lot better to not get immediately yeeted out of existence for daring to poke the rim of my hat out of the rift.

However, it seems some frames (I believe Mag and Harrow) benefit too much, making more immortal frames. I assume the goal is to have no immortals long-term, and this could compromise this. I suggest possibly making shield-gate related elements a per-frame stat similar to amount of shields in the first place - shield durability and gate resistance.  For example, frames like mag which can acquire tons of shields easily have those shields have less of the damage resistance they currently do, and perhaps less time damage immune. This can be done to nerf shield-immortals whilst leaving frames that use shield gating as (presumably) intended intact.

I mean, you can just give the shield gate a cooldown.

[Kaizal]

On 2020-03-11 at 5:32 PM, kapn655321 said:

Could Rage and Hunter's Adrenaline remove shield gating while equipped?
Could Quick Thinking function a touch more like shield gating?

I mean, itd be nice if they removed shields entirely imo, just so you can also use it at low lvls. But i agree the gating is the main problem, rip boberon

[Ikyr0]

I can't believe there are people who are actually complaining about shield gating on Arbie drones/enemies.

This game is so easy. Nothing in this game poses any threat to the Warframe. Anything that makes enemies a bit tougher is a welcome change. 

Arbie drones are fine. It just changes up the weapon meta from low rof (shotties, Opticor, etc) to high rof weapons (beams, Rattle, etc). These people are just complaining they have to change their weapons now.

Shield gating on Corpus with headshot weak points is more than fine. Vanilla Corpus need all the buffs they can get. OV Corpus are awesome adversaries and we need more content like them.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

13 hours ago, Ikyr0 said:

I can't believe there are people who are actually complaining about shield gating on Arbie drones/enemies.

This game is so easy. Nothing in this game poses any threat to the Warframe. Anything that makes enemies a bit tougher is a welcome change. 

Arbie drones are fine. It just changes up the weapon meta from low rof (shotties, Opticor, etc) to high rof weapons (beams, Rattle, etc). These people are just complaining they have to change their weapons now.

No, I’m complaining about how Arbitration Drones are small enemies with no weak spots, making them more fully protected by shield gating with no “skill” way tp bypass it, only “build” ways.

[Ikyr0]

31 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

No, I’m complaining about how Arbitration Drones are small enemies with no weak spots, making them more fully protected by shield gating with no “skill” way tp bypass it, only “build” ways.

But this was always the case, except previously we just spammed Arca or Fulmin to one-shot it. The only thing that has changed now is that different weapon types are more effective.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

1 hour ago, Ikyr0 said:

But this was always the case, except previously we just spammed Arca or Fulmin to one-shot it. The only thing that has changed now is that different weapon types are more effective.

I’m using a sniper rifle. Previously, those didn’t have a problem one shoting Arbitration drones. Not some mass AoE weapon lime you suggested.

[SprinKah]

On 2020-03-21 at 10:35 AM, Ikyr0 said:

I can't believe there are people who are actually complaining about shield gating on Arbie drones/enemies.

This game is so easy. Nothing in this game poses any threat to the Warframe. Anything that makes enemies a bit tougher is a welcome change. 

Arbie drones are fine. It just changes up the weapon meta from low rof (shotties, Opticor, etc) to high rof weapons (beams, Rattle, etc). These people are just complaining they have to change their weapons now.

Shield gating on Corpus with headshot weak points is more than fine. Vanilla Corpus need all the buffs they can get. OV Corpus are awesome adversaries and we need more content like them.

you think Vanilla Corpus are really that weak? Hell naw dog. I mean sure, they were SLIGHTLY weaker than Grineer before the whole armor scaling nerf thing to them. Now the ridiculous armor scaling is gone, I don't really think Corpus needs the whole entire shield gate anymore...Just at least remove the constant shield recharge thing idunno.

They want to make factions in line with each other? Yet now the Corpus are just as resiliant as the Grineer, pretty much, but with a lot more annoying units and deal more damage as well...A LOT more damage than Grineer. It just doesn't stand right by me.

THey needed to make Corpus to the same level as the Grineer? The armor scaling change should've just been it. In my opinion. 

I'm just saying. Because to be honest, even if the whole shield gate stays, it's not gonna make a big difference for the vets, mostly for newbs. The thing is, the Corpus has units that can pretty much...."replinish" them, the shield Ospreys now can pretty much give corpus enemies endless shield gate. I know I know we can just shoot them first but still, it's a matter of making factions in lined with each other. I feel the Grineer kinda loses out after this update. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by SprinKah

[xChibix]

16 hours ago, SprinKah said:

you think Vanilla Corpus are really that weak? Hell naw dog. I mean sure, they were SLIGHTLY weaker than Grineer before the whole armor scaling nerf thing to them. Now the ridiculous armor scaling is gone, I don't really think Corpus needs the whole entire shield gate anymore...Just at least remove the constant shield recharge thing idunno.

They want to make factions in line with each other? Yet now the Corpus are just as resiliant as the Grineer, pretty much, but with a lot more annoying units and deal more damage as well...A LOT more damage than Grineer. It just doesn't stand right by me.

THey needed to make Corpus to the same level as the Grineer? The armor scaling change should've just been it. In my opinion. 

I'm just saying. Because to be honest, even if the whole shield gate stays, it's not gonna make a big difference for the vets, mostly for newbs. The thing is, the Corpus has units that can pretty much...."replinish" them, the shield Ospreys now can pretty much give corpus enemies endless shield gate. I know I know we can just shoot them first but still, it's a matter of making factions in lined with each other. I feel the Grineer kinda loses out after this update. 

I mean, I really don't know what you want people to say. Vanilla Corpus were absolutely squishier than even infested units since they at least have ancients providing auras and the Swarm Mutalest Moa to provide armor to them, among other things, but Corpus literally only had shield drones to buff their pathetic shield count, Amalgams, and Nullifiers.

Why do you think people test their weapon builds on Grineer heavy units? They could scale up to 95% damage reduction at lv 90 on top of their health scaling in the previous system. For example, you can look up the older versions of the wiki pages to compare these different values. Corpus Techs at lv 90 had ~72k effective health including their shields. A Heavy Gunner at lv 90 had 619k effective life. To drive the point even further, a lv 90 Lancer had 53k effective health. A basic, non-elite fodder enemy had 73% of the effective health as one of the tankiest Corpus units. Saying these 2 factions were close in terms of defences is completely bogus unless you're secretly accounting for 4 Corrosive Projections in all your public games.

As for Shield Drones, they probably could tune them to have a cooldown on their ability or simply speed up shield regeneration instead of constantly supplying shields to help out snipers and newer players.

[SprinKah]

5 hours ago, xChibix said:

I mean, I really don't know what you want people to say. Vanilla Corpus were absolutely squishier than even infested units since they at least have ancients providing auras and the Swarm Mutalest Moa to provide armor to them, among other things, but Corpus literally only had shield drones to buff their pathetic shield count, Amalgams, and Nullifiers.

Why do you think people test their weapon builds on Grineer heavy units? They could scale up to 95% damage reduction at lv 90 on top of their health scaling in the previous system. For example, you can look up the older versions of the wiki pages to compare these different values. Corpus Techs at lv 90 had ~72k effective health including their shields. A Heavy Gunner at lv 90 had 619k effective life. To drive the point even further, a lv 90 Lancer had 53k effective health. A basic, non-elite fodder enemy had 73% of the effective health as one of the tankiest Corpus units. Saying these 2 factions were close in terms of defences is completely bogus unless you're secretly accounting for 4 Corrosive Projections in all your public games.

As for Shield Drones, they probably could tune them to have a cooldown on their ability or simply speed up shield regeneration instead of constantly supplying shields to help out snipers and newer players.

Well, after the update, i did a bunch of tests on both Grineer and Corpus. Tried several different guns and elementals on different factions. I think PERSONALLY, the elementals and damage types changes AND armor scaling reduction were enough to propel the Corpus to the same level as the Grineer. Like I said, Corpus weren't really that weak...they had a lot going for them

Tested stuff in SImulacrum. Spawned in VANILLA Heavy Gunners, Bombards and Techs. If you use Corrosive, Heavy Gunners Both Bombards and Heavy Gunners are both slightly dispatched quicker than Techs. Magnetic however, yeah, Techs die quicker. But I suppose it depends on the weapons, I used a high fire rate one. Though, the Grineer are more...vulnerable to a wider range of elementals and damage types than the Corpus. Like Viral and Slash, and Fire. 

Generally, yes the Grineer are still a BIT tankier now, than the Corpus. But Like I said, It has always been a case of "Utility/Power over Durability" for the Corpus, sure they die quicker but they made up for it with a lot of annoying and utility-based enemies that can make fights against them even longer-lasting than the Grineer. Such as Nullifiers and Bursas and such

Personally, I don't dislike what they are trying to go for, but I think they still should tone down the shield gate on the Corpus. Just keep everything but at least increase time between shield recharge, or just straight up remove the shield recharge part. BECAUSE I'm not gonna lie to you, the whole constant shield recharge thing, gameplay wise for us, it's not gonna be noticeable at all, but it DOES mess with OTHER ASPECTS of the game, like NPC vs NPC. For example: an Invasion or Crossfire missions. Literally you can go into and Invasion Exterminate mission, side with the Corpus, which they will have a lower level than the opposing side. You can go watch netflix and come back and the Corpus would have finished the mission for you.

Before the whole shield gate thing, that whole aspect was rather balanced out, but now it always tips to the favor of the Corpus. IDK if it matters to you but it' feels wrong. I guess in the end that's one of the main beefs I got with the shield gate on Corpus (I liked simulating mock battles in Simulacrum).  And honestly, removing or toning down the shield recharge rate on their shield gate and ONLY that would definitely fix it, it's not much, won't really affect anything when it comes to players vs Corpus, 'cause in the end, we won't notice any of it. 

Also to quote

5 hours ago, xChibix said:

To drive the point even further, a lv 90 Lancer had 53k effective health. A basic, non-elite fodder enemy had 73% of the effective health as one of the tankiest Corpus units..

Yes, indeed, Lancers are in fact quite more durable than many Corpus enemies. But did you know that because non-elite Lancers, they spawn from lvl 0, while Elite lancers, start spawn from lvl 15? In general, most non-elite units have more healh/shield/armor than thei elite counterparts. I really don't understand this whole effective health thing but in the end, they're just numbers, and in practice, the big difference in number doesnt really mattter that much. I tested in Simulacrum at lvl 145, Sounds bad but it's really not that crazy. Takes maybe a few more bullets, depends on the weapons, to kill, all the same. Also, if you're talking "one of the tankiest Corpus units" as in like...Tech, yeah... I don't believe you...I tried it out, lvl90 Lancer took like 6 bullets from my Prisma Grakata while the Tech took...80-ish bullets.

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by SprinKah