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[DE]Bear

Warframe Revised: Arcane Changes Megathread

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)palebluelight said:

I can’t tell you how much I think comments like this and the thoughts that lead to them are 1. shutting the door on new players by making de think the grind is fair and 2. allowing them to think the content is suitable therefore that’s the standard that they produce. It’s mind blowing to pay them a complement to a change that adds more grind to an event that may never be fair or work correctly. Man I respectfully call you a fool. All of these arcanes are useless at low ranks so why farm them. Have fun at the top jerk. 

In what world should a new player have loads of arcanes? I didn't even start getting arcanes until I was MR16 2+ years ago with Law of Retribution, before PoE and the Eidolons became a thing.

As for arcanes at low ranks... They aren't useless, they just aren't as strong as you want them to be. Any arcane is better than no arcane when you first start getting them. The whole point of arcanes having ranks is to make you want to farm more and increase their effects for stronger builds.

And finally, just because there are people that appreciate the rank and power increase on many arcanes, like Velocity, Momentum, Acceleration, status arcanes, etc, doesn't make them a fool or a jerk in anything but your own opinion. There are obviously still problems with arcanes feeling inconsistent to use or just feel bad due to not being able to refresh effects or having low procc chances. Aegis feels amazing to use when it proccs, but it only works on frames that can get high shield counts and/ or damage resistance. Energize feels kinda meh to use and could benefit from another look at the cooldown. Pulse is useless. Guardian would probably benefit from allowing it to refresh but removing power elsewhere.

 

I don't know what else to say to someone that basically spits in the face of someone giving constructive criticism. Good luck I guess?

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37 minutes ago, xChibix said:

In what world should a new player have loads of arcanes? I didn't even start getting arcanes until I was MR16 2+ years ago with Law of Retribution, before PoE and the Eidolons became a thing.

As for arcanes at low ranks... They aren't useless, they just aren't as strong as you want them to be. Any arcane is better than no arcane when you first start getting them. The whole point of arcanes having ranks is to make you want to farm more and increase their effects for stronger builds.

And finally, just because there are people that appreciate the rank and power increase on many arcanes, like Velocity, Momentum, Acceleration, status arcanes, etc, doesn't make them a fool or a jerk in anything but your own opinion. There are obviously still problems with arcanes feeling inconsistent to use or just feel bad due to not being able to refresh effects or having low procc chances. Aegis feels amazing to use when it proccs, but it only works on frames that can get high shield counts and/ or damage resistance. Energize feels kinda meh to use and could benefit from another look at the cooldown. Pulse is useless. Guardian would probably benefit from allowing it to refresh but removing power elsewhere.

 

I don't know what else to say to someone that basically spits in the face of someone giving constructive criticism. Good luck I guess?

That’s exactly the problem it’s shouldn’t take 2+ years to get anything. Your not playing a game your working a part time job and that’s being generous. Warframe as a whole is built to the convenience of players like you who are already 2+ years and were playing at the launch of newer content but what’s left after that is an insane grind that isn’t fun. Both of us already had arcanes but after this changes what new player will want to wait for broken Scarlett spear or attempt broken eidolons. The grind and the plat trap the devs leave behind is NOT FUN or fair! As a player experiencing these changes I can say what needs to be because I don’t want new Tenno being turned off and not even attempting because the changes leave the odds so stacked up against you. Warframe is fun with friends why make content inaccessible and then as a players encourage it. 

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, (PS4)palebluelight said:

That’s exactly the problem it’s shouldn’t take 2+ years to get anything. Your not playing a game your working a part time job and that’s being generous. Warframe as a whole is built to the convenience of players like you who are already 2+ years and were playing at the launch of newer content but what’s left after that is an insane grind that isn’t fun. Both of us already had arcanes but after this changes what new player will want to wait for broken Scarlett spear or attempt broken eidolons. The grind and the plat trap the devs leave behind is NOT FUN or fair! As a player experiencing these changes I can say what needs to be because I don’t want new Tenno being turned off and not even attempting because the changes leave the odds so stacked up against you. Warframe is fun with friends why make content inaccessible and then as a players encourage it. 

I'm not saying it needs to take 2+ years, I'm saying that it's endgame content and a brand new player shouldn't just be able to play for a week and get access to swim through arcanes with little or no effort. For example, I have a couple friends who started playing maybe 2 months ago and are around MR 14, 1 even has a good Railjack, they started farming Eidolons, and are in a pretty good spot. I only met them like 3 weeks ago during the anniversary's 1st week when I was starting to do Railjack in preparation for Scarlet Spear, and that's how we became friends. The only thing's I've helped them on is mostly just knowledge in Eidolon fights, and we've already been able to get him to the point where we can do 3x3s when one is the DPS as Harrow.

Going by their journey of playing this game, the game has been pretty fair, even if they are ahead of the curve, but a new player has to want to learn how to get these things and such. Arcanes can be very powerful and shouldn't just be thrown at new players, or anyone in general, for no effort.

Edited by xChibix

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"We don't want to increase the grind"

If DE honestly wanted that, they would have just flat out buffed the garbage arcanes. Rank 3 arcane ice? 100% fire resist! No need for more grind! Rank 3 nullifier now gives 100%? No need for more grind!

Then scarlet spear came out... which is a horrid grind and completely devalues the time players who had max rank arcanes put into the game. The only reason DE did these arcane changes was to try to get players who already have the arcanes they want to play. This was absolutely done to increase the grind. I said it before when DE first talked about this, and now it's showing. Undo the nerfs, undo the horrid 21 arcanes for a rank 5 and go back to rank 3, make the never used arcanes better, and don't try to act like increasing the grind wasn't the goal here.

It also doesn't help that DE used that broken excuse of "its not working as intended" after arcanes being in the game, unchanged, for YEARS. Basically, this...

"The goal here is not at all to increase the arcane grind, we wanna correct mistakes in the meta, not squeeze you for the grind, you don't have to go back to Eidolons, you'll have Scarlet Spear". - Steve Sinclair

is the complete opposite of the truth. From my standpoint, this was done purely to squeeze us for more grind. More accurately, squeeze us to play scarlet spear. The best thing DE could do is to undo most of the arcane changes. Keep the no stacking, make status resist arcanes 100% at rank 3, but most importantly, give a reason to use other arcanes. Pouring vinegar over roses to try to make it not smell so much better than a pile of rotting ghoul corpses is one of the most foolish and illogical things that one could do.

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On 2020-03-29 at 1:12 PM, (PS4)palebluelight said:

I can’t tell you how much I think comments like this and the thoughts that lead to them are 1. shutting the door on new players by making de think the grind is fair and 2. allowing them to think the content is suitable therefore that’s the standard that they produce. It’s mind blowing to pay them a complement to a change that adds more grind to an event that may never be fair or work correctly. Man I respectfully call you a fool. All of these arcanes are useless at low ranks so why farm them. Have fun at the top jerk. 

This kind of comment doesn't belong here.
You explain nothing on the why you think the grind is unfair. And simply split on my face for putting a real work in trying to explain to DE how arcane change feel.

You call me fool. But you can't even read through my comment and understand that I never mentioned anything about the accessibility of those arcane. It was all pure game play feedback.

But you grabs my attention. Let's talk as well about grind and accessibility for arcane I did forget about that part. That didn't change from the update just saying.

 

But first before going into the judgment of it is really that hard to grind up arcane. Let me remind you something about Warframe.

Warframe "IS" a game of grind. A major part of Warframe economy, so how DE get money while the game is free to play. It's essentially in that "Pay to fast" system by buying plat when you too lazy to actually play the game. It with that money that make DE keep the development running.

Careful here I'm not saying I'm agree with all of this. But it's good for people like you to maybe one day to understand that the game have a way to get money and you will be force to go along with it.

So now smartass. Explain us how DE should make money if the game wasn't grindy at all ? Should they do Pay to play ? Subscription ?

Maybe you want a League of Legend/Fortnite style of economy mainly base on cosmetic sell.  Which mean make the game super fast to grind. And then what will you do in the game having everything ? It's a PvE game not PvP just reminding you. If load of people player 600h instead of a mere 100h like a lots of other game. It thank to the grind to keep the attraction of the player.
Maybe your mentality is to have all developer of video game to do a hard work for S#&$ money because of there would be no market behind, just so that you can sit down play freely at the full content and criticism the work behind. Like if the dev industry isn't dark enough in the majority.

If you don't understand all of this, no need to read more but do me a favor. Go play another game .

 

 

Now let's talk about grind.

I will be talking about the true farm "Eidolon hunt" Not this mere super easy event where you can go as Limbo pick up in Railjack mode. Cast your ult. Finish the mission and you don't even need to understand what you just did. No teamwork research, damage test in simulacrum to find the best way to deal damage. Just limbo. Wow not new player friendly. 

You can be the jerk good for nothing on ground assault too. Simple be the limbo.


So back to Hunt. You denounce that Arcane grind isn't fair ? Hahahaha poor little player. Let me explain you many thing.

 

1 - Arcane isn't new player content. Yes ! Woah you realized it ? You fighting the hardest boss of Warframe it absolutely was designed for new player. Yes 100% !

You want to know something funny ? Even though it is not newish friendly content. If you had a bit of skill / luck / social skill you CAN farm it as new player. "OH No it's too hard to learn and understand how to do the boss" that is accessible even from MR 1 ! Yes you can be carried and get Arcanes as MR 1 it's a full carry ok but still no pre-required like with other boss such as Rapotalyst/ Profit-Taker or even Index for credits.

If you do want to be able to do it solo can you have no friend. You only need to finish "War within" to start the farm. <---- that really isn't far off new player content.

Want me to explain more how bad player you surely are ? Man you don't really need good build to go hunt. The frame barely matter there, the Operator matter way more. I assure you with a bit of skill play and right attention on what you have to do you can participate in a hunt with one of the 1st frame given at the way beginning of the game ( Volt ). That is even accessible in most dojo if you don't have it.

As well you know you don't have to go for Hydrolyst from the start. Hey stay on your ground. Vombalyst is a good way to start in order to get a good Amp, Very difficult monster. It's only charging forward. Then what ? Teralyst maybe ? Oh wait Teralyst give one of the most important newbie arcane for Trido. Arcane Nulifier !

Maybe you think limb are too hard to break ? Well learn to socialize and find people to play with. Organize a group like you should for any raid. Maybe thing will go easier.
Can't find anyone ? Learn to socialize.

See even if this end game content. A newbie can access to this game content ? All he need to do is "play" and maybe as well "Make friends". Maybe too hard for you, yep you should definitively change game.

 

Wait I forgot to mention you that this is actually an easier than before

Ever heard of Raids before ?

Raids was the only way to get Arcane back in time. Maybe it's what you call new player friendly content ? You could only get 2 arcane a "day". Now you get 3 arcane for 1 Trio. Do 2 Trio a night is very "Casual". And 4 Trio a night is very much accessible once you start to get into this farm type. 4x3 = 12 arcane. Bloody 12 arcane for 50min gameplay against 2 arcane a day. And you still complain.

 

2 - Arcane too grindy compare to other content ? Wait maybe we should compare to other grind part of the game that I hope you think are new player friendly.
What should I choose. Endo ? Focus ? Relics ? Syndicate ? Forma ? Oh man they all at least 1 year of farm content I don't even know which one to take.

Should I talk about Endo ? Isn't Endo what max rank your mods ? That you sooooooo essentially need to be max since low rank arcane don't attract you. Most if not ALL people I know with over 2k hour of game still have few primed mods to level up.
Funny I met a player with only 600h of game did a bit of hunt. Got all the arcane he wanted. Only 600h for "end game" arcane. When Endo is accessible right from the start

What about Focus ? Thank wiki did the math for me. To be max rank you need 52,660,819 focus. That is 192 day of sanctuary elite gameplay. Woah.
Hey you knew Hunting can give you Focus ? And down the farm to 3months easily ?

   

Should I talk about all the primed frame / weapon INCLUDING vault ones ? Surely the best example. How long of brainless farm do it take ? I will spare myself the math on that one. But I'm sure you can already count 1 year of farm if you want everything. Arcane have no vault arcane it's funny.

 

 

Actually I don't know why I tried my best to argument around it. You only want high up content. So max rank arcane by playing 2h of the game. Yep that will suite your more. Sorry Warframe isn't for you.

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The cost of the high end arcanes is too low, for those of us who have ground out hundreds of Ed kills/captures you have cheapened the effort.  Cost should be at least 10,000 for any of the big 3, 4000 for ones like guardian.  The whole scarlet spear is nothing but a limbo fest as it is, make teamwork mean something again!

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Probably the only feedback I am giving is on Arcane Barrier. Gotta say i hate the change. This was something i could use on anything and sure it wasn't always useful but its nice to have. Now its not. There isn't a S#&amp;&#036; ton of frames that have massive shields. Besides I won't die if i run out of shields but I will if i run out of health.

 

I am referring to the change where it now only affects shield damage. You know I would have rathered a cool down. ITS 6% Do you honestly think this thing is gonna be useful on most frames. The probability of it proccing on most frames has drastically reduced. AND ITS LEGENDARY?! Are you kidding me????? Grace at least has a 9% chance on health (not too much better) Energize is legendary and grants me a nice load of energy with a meager cool down and i can use it on ANYTHING. if you're gonna give grace and barrier the finger you need to change their rarity. I would not put them on the same level as each other or as energize.

Edited by (PS4)Keiji_Haku
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This was likely already mentioned but could you lower the amount of kills needed to trigger Arcane Bodyguard?

Start at 6 on R0 and lower it to 1 on R5.

Usually, when I need to heal my Kubrow, I need to do it NOW because they die rather quickly. Killing 6 enemies for 900 HP is too much effort, that takes too much time, for little result.

Pack Leader, even not fully modded, fully restores my Kubrow's HP usually with a single melee attack.

Which makes it much faster, stronger and I can use it to keep my Kubrow alive even in fights where there are no easy to kill enemies in crowds (imagine fighting a Kuva Lich but no other mobs nearby).

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With Arcanes now widespread, we should categorise them and maybe allow them to be used more?
Currently, all arcanes are equipped on warframes, but that does not really make sense as it restricts every warframe to a couple of setup if you want to use arcanes like precision, velocity, strike etc.
 
I suggest and hope that we can split the different arcanes up so they can be used in the appropriate slots,
 
Warframe Arcanes: Energize, Grace, Barrier, Aegis, Guardian, Elemental resistances and pakour types...
Melee Arcanes: Arcane Strike, Trickery, Fury, Ultimatum...
Primary Arcanes: Tempo, Rage, Primary Charger...
Secondary Arcanes: Velocity, Pistoleer, Precision...
Archgun Arcanes: Tanker...
 
We already have arcanes on Zaws and Kitguns, I dont think that this would be drastic or out of place. It helps to encourage more flexibility and use of more arcanes.
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Arcane Aegis is simply better than Arcane Barrier in every way. Not only does barrier recharge shields only once and possess and obscenely long cooldown, aegis can completely recharge shields 3 and a half times, make you immortal during those 12 seconds, while barrier leaves you vulnerable during the entire duration of the unmentioned cooldown. If you ask me, Aegis should be legendary, and Barrier should be common

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En 2/3/2020 a las 18:39, [DE]Bear dijo:

Scarlet Spear will feature a buy-what-you-want shop for Arcanes based on the currency earned in the event. It will launch in March shortly after this Mainline.

There're arcanes that not appears in the shop, like Arcane Pistoleer

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