Warframe Revised: Arcane Changes Megathread

[ExiMaster]

Can you revert the arcane aegis changes? You just completely denied and invalidated all the time and resources put into farming those arcanes. Now it's useless.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

8 hours ago, 8faiNt said:

Revert Energize change. No duration and no cooldown. 
Revert Guardian change. Fix it being %20 to procc with lesser time rather than %15 to procc with more time. Basically, the old one.

Run a script and give r5 arcanes to those who already had their r3 arcanes since you nerfed most of  them and now punishing us with even more tedious grind.

 

Do it
No balls

I agree with this. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, Cyanide2018 said:

Don't forget AG can't re-trigger anymore. That gotta improve the game for sure... right?

So in other words, its objectively worse than before even after grinding 11 more arcane guardians. Great. 

 

Someone tell me why they decided to make 5 ranks again?

[jesusdh]

Arcane Guardian proc chance is too low, since you need to take the full damage before it procs. Increase the proc chance and maybe remove/reduce the cooldown. Same for the shields arcanes.

Now that Energize has a cooldown, abilities that have an infinite drain scaling(to clarify: not a fix drain, but a never ending increasing drain) like Ember, Grendel, Oberon+Nekros, Equinox Night Form and Valkyr(for maybe future tweaks, like removing the invincibility to give her damage reduction and a mecanic like Baruuk's) should be changed to drain a fixed amount.



Change the number of max arcanes to 20 for OCD relief...

Edited March 6, 2020 by jesusdh

[Trestira]

Really, if they wanted to encourage build diversity and discourage arcane stacking, they should have just made rank 5 as good as having two of that arcane equipped, and not added the cooldowns. As-is, the cooldowns alone are pretty bad, and the various arcane effects being nerfed or capped at 1.5x instead of 2x hurts a lot of builds, instead.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

Feedback:

Arcane Energize is in a really bad place now. Higher proc percentage is completely pointless. It also forces you to avoid energy orbs to meta-game waiting for the cooldown to run out. Metagaming in a mission is bad.

Arcane Grace/Aegis are pretty worthless now. I've tried them on several builds and they're not even useful anymore.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Countess_Hapmuhr
.

[DarkalphaMKX]

24 minutes ago, Countess_Hapmuhr said:

Feedback:

Arcane Energize is in a really bad place now. Higher proc percentage is completely pointless. It also forces you to avoid energy orbs to meta-game waiting for the cooldown to run out. Metagaming in a mission is bad.

Agree.

For a game based on moving quickly, it's awful feeling to have to wait. 

[KitMeHarder]

Personally I would have rather been given the ability to equip 3 different arcanes, instead of having them go to rank 5. But since it's live...

• You all need to unnerf Aegis, or at the very least triple the proc chance.
• And you need to remove the new cooldowns on certain arcanes, or severely reduce said cooldowns. As IDK if it scales with rank, but a 15 second cooldown on Energize is too much.
• You could also make Arachne refreshable. 

With the exception of what I listed, this was a welcome change to me personally so long as they are relatively easy to farm from Scarlet Spear.

Edited March 8, 2020 by KitMeHarder

[Reifnir]

Arcane Grace and Energize took a staggering hit. 

Grace is now viable only on Nezha and to a lesser extent, Inaros, requires Adaptation and is pretty much "not worth the effort" for other frames. You know, the other 40 (forty) warframes currently in the game. For a Legendary arcane that comes from Hydrolyst caps it's a Primed Disappointment all over again. Please consider allowing to re-trigger while active, and if you're so hell-bent on nerfing it in some way, cap the amount of Grace procs that can be active at any given moment at 5. Left as it is, it's just plain bad. It's just not worth getting over Magus Elevate/Repair now - and those arcanes can be obtained by doing trivial tasks like Toroid farming. 

Energize is now something you can use only on frames that don't really require much energy. Maybe Ivara. Any frames that have high-maintenance toggled abilities will find Energize very, very lacking. That cooldown needs to be 2 seconds at most, not 15. The current power of a ranked Energize does not reflect the amount of effort it requires to get at all - we're talking over ~300 Hydrolyst captures for a set of 21 - and the end result is an item that works as a slightly more mobile version of an energy restore. This is not ok. 

 

[1st-1]

il y a 3 minutes, Reifnir a dit :

Arcane Grace and Energize took a staggering hit. 

Grace is now viable only on Nezha and to a lesser extent, Inaros, requires Adaptation and is pretty much "not worth the effort" for other frames. You know, the other 40 (forty) warframes currently in the game. For a Legendary arcane that comes from Hydrolyst caps it's a Primed Disappointment all over again. Please consider allowing to re-trigger while active, and if you're so hell-bent on nerfing it in some way, cap the amount of Grace procs that can be active at any given moment at 5. Left as it is, it's just plain bad. It's just not worth getting over Magus Elevate/Repair now - and those arcanes can be obtained by doing trivial tasks like Toroid farming. 

Energize is now something you can use only on frames that don't really require much energy. Maybe Ivara. Any frames that have high-maintenance toggled abilities will find Energize very, very lacking. That cooldown needs to be 2 seconds at most, not 15. The current power of a ranked Energize does not reflect the amount of effort it requires to get at all - we're talking over ~300 Hydrolyst captures for a set of 21 - and the end result is an item that works as a slightly more mobile version of an energy restore. This is not ok. 

 

~300 is a lucky number.. took me almost 600 run to get 2 full set.. but hey, i did all that for nothing in the end, thanks DE :D

[Steel_Rook]

Two points here.

Point 1: DE's argument for placing cooldowns on Arcanes is not convincing. While they may have "intended" Arcanes to be something which fires randomly and turns the tide of battle, that's not how they've worked at any point at least that I've been around. Even if we assume the likes of Arcane Guardian COULD turn the tide of battle, I'd never know it had happened because all it does is tweak behind-the-scenes numbers with next to no feedback to me. Not unless I'm staring at my buffs bar, and I'm usually not. The likes of Guardian, Grace and basically anything else which could trigger off of taking damage worked better as a constant buff which we would need to maintain by consistently taking fire. Slapping a cooldown on it makes the Arcane inconsistent and prone to unexpected damage spikes which - again - the player won't perceive as their Arcanes failing to trigger so much as "why did I just die?" Warframe is not a CCG.

Point 2: DE's argument for boosting Arcanes to Rank 5 makes no sense. The stated goal of this change is to compensate players for the lack of double-stacking by improving the strength of individual Arcanes, but this in no way requires increasing the max rank of Arcanes and forcing us to grind the same amount again. In fact, DE's stated design goal - which they repeated multiple times throughout the Dev Stream - is NOT to create more grind. Reality disagrees. Even if they add a temporary event with easier access to Arcanes, they are still introducing substantially more grind for no justifiable reason. The simplest solution here would have been to buff the performance of Rank 3 Arcanes so people could keep using what we already have without having to regrind it.

Despite outward appearances, I'm not opposed to nerfing Arcane Guardian and Arcane Grace. Having an Inaros who literally can't die is funny, but I understand the need for parity. Nerfing Arcanes, then asking us to grind more just to break even is a terrible way to go about it, especially when what got nerfed is I'd argue the wrong aspect of these Arcanes.

[(PSN)Dredgen_Vor]

Omg almost 6 pages of players drowning in tears and anguish because of this nerf. I’m getting Vivergate farm update PTSD all over again. DE, please see the disaster caused and revert this arcane change.

[Tau.]

This isn't a kneejerk reaction or anything. The language on Arcane Aegis as it is now looks like a catastrophic nerf to it in any measurable feasibility, which is in stark contrast to the entire spirit of the rest of the rebalancing overhaul regarding shields: which appeared to seek to legitimize them as a mechanic. 

The language reads as though it's supposed to be a 3% chance, for 12 seconds, at rank 5 Aegis. For 30%/s shield recharge. Proccable only upon taking damage to shields. Shields that need to still exist.

That is an absolutely itembreaking drop in functionality compared to what it was before. Barrier only saw use as a meme on Hildryn because that 4% proc chance could see that rare but massive return, but this? Even less of a chance to work, for a far smaller and weaker scaling return? 

Rank 5 on arcanes takes 21 copies. Rank 3 was 10. Rank 3 of Aegis used to be 6% for 20s of 60 shields/s. 

- "Oh, but 30% of your shield values usually means a much bigger return than a mere 60/s"? Issue is, it functionally was not a mere 60. Stacking sources of damage reduction multiplied the functional value of that "mere" 60/s to many tens of times over, and 6% proc chance over a 20s span had a reasonably good chance to be refreshed for what could serve as a pretty respectable defense feature. If damage rates outpaced even that rapidly-regenerating bulwark and that decent proc chance wasn't feeling cooperative for a time? Damage to your health had just as much chance to kickstart it again. 

3% over 12s requires one to be shot an average of 33.3 times to be statistically likely to refresh the buff within its duration. If it doesn't get reactivated within that time and expires? Well, I'm scratching my head to come up with a scenario where you can eat that many shots within that time, and where your shields could last that many more hits again without fully depleting, at which point you're no longer eligible for even that minuscule chance, because it only exists on the instance of taking damage to one's shields. Which need to exist. In other words, it has zero capacity to bounce back now. The flat 25% damage reduction on player shields still does not even begin to tip the scales to netting anything close to a comparable result. 

It absolutely cannot do the task it could do before before (not even for twice the number of copies), a task it still very rarely actually saw being picked for. 

 

The smaller benefit time and microscopic activation chance - let alone the now extremely limiting proc condition - absolutely gut this arcane's already previously fringe functionality. They gut it like a fish. Is this intended? 

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

Diversity of Arcane usage was the rationale to justify the Arcane changes with the current update. I have no problem with that concept, but can sum up the actions DE has done in order to obtain these results, can be summarized in one word…….EVIL!!

Please give me ONE example of another game, that anyone has played for 5+ years, that was changed so dramatically as to require the players to completely redo the relentless grind that was achieved during those previous 5 years. It does NOT matter if Arcanes are not required, the point is that I DID the work to earn the luxury of using them!  To the best of my knowledge, I can't think of another game in history that has altered the rewards EARNED by those individuals, that CHOSE to grind for those rewards, so dramatically that would require them to complete most of that work, yet again, to achieve the values of the rewards already earned.  In some cases, the value of those rewards was diminished or altered so much as to make the reward value nearly equal to zero. 

Even if you could cite an example it would NOT make it RIGHT!

If DE felt the need to re-balance the game thru changing the values and actions that Arcanes would provide, then the logical and ethical course of action would be to change the values and usage rules of the Arcanes directly.  If DE felt that Arcane Energize, Arcane Guardian etc. was used to excessively, was too strong, fine then change the EFFECTS of those Arcanes to whatever DE thinks is appropriate to rebalance the game. It's that simple.

There is NO other word but EVIL that comes to mind to describe the changes that have occurred.

Please explain to me how selling the Arcanes during an Event is an acceptable course of action and worthy of praise for their actions? It might not require the task of an Eidelon Hunt but it is still forcing everyone to WORK again for an item that we ALREADY earned in the first place. It doesn’t matter what actions or work is required, it matters that I have to do additional work to obtain an item/reward that I already completed the work for in the first place. Why is this even a topic for discussion. I ALREADY DID THE WORK. I am not even bothering with factoring the amount additional work performed because of the statistical probabilities associated RNG with actually getting the desired Arcanes in the first place!

Example:

I run a 5 mile Marathon and earn a reward by completing the marathon. 5 years later I am told I can only keep the reward already earned, if I complete the 5 mile Marathon yet again. Why you ask? Because they felt like it.
Anyone that is OK with that please grab your crucifix and run to the nearest church for an exorcism.

It is NOT ethical, moral, acceptable whatever term you want to use, to justify DE’s course of actions regarding the requirement of its players, to obtain an additional 11 Arcanes per type to make the existing Arcanes have similar values, and in some cases less value, prior to the update.

It is deeply disconcerting to read comments that praise DE for there hard work when in fact, WE the Players, will be the ones required to earn/work yet again, to achieve the same, and in some cases, less valuable rewards.

Let us PRAY that DE will recognize the error of their ways and fix this Arcane debacle by simply altering the stats for Arcanes and also removing the requirement of needing 11 additional Arcanes.

God Bless us Tenno for having the compassion to forgive DE for their heinous actions with this update and giving them the opportunity to atone for their Sins!

[1st-1]

↑ Like this guy ↑

[Bacl]

Ok you seriously killed Arcane Grace at this point with that cooldown, not only it was nerfed on the activation chance from when we could double stack them but now after some testing in the simulacrum, the same parameters that i could survive before with just two Graces now i cant survive with a Grace rank 5 + a Guardian on top of it all.

 

A small nerf is one thing but my god did they made a number on this one.

 

Also Arcane Aegis with only 3% activation chance, why? Not a lot of frames can shield tank properly so why the need to nerf that to such a low number?

[Educated_Beast]

Quote

 

The pros do not outweigh the cons in this patch.  So disappointed in arcane changes, removal of self damage, and completely ignoring the promised removal of stasis for pets.  

There was no qol improvements, just more grind for less rewards.  Nerf it ok, but don't also piss on our heads with double the grind.  

Screw Arcanes, they are garbage now and not worth the trouble.

[LuckyCharm]

Cool. So you nerfed all the things.. but hows bout making some of those still unused, and now bad arcanes  actually beneficial to use when compared to the commonly used ones? 

[Wolvjavin]

Arcane Energize is a little over-tuned right now for certain frames. I'd recommend lowering the cooldown on Arcane Energize, or buffing energy orb drop chances on abilities such as Ember's Inferno and and Mag's Pull. This will alleviate some the pain for these frames that could previously use energize to maintain their energy pools effectively, especially considering these frames like to be casters and use Quick Thinking at the same time.

[Tokomi_]

On 2020-03-02 at 9:39 AM, [DE]Bear said:

Arcane Changes

Why: The reasoning here is mainly toward the ability to equip two of the same Arcane. This reasoning is one of past inconsistency and time determining intent.

we want to encourage a variety instead of duplication. ...  we would rather players have variety than duplications.

"time determining intent" What on earth do you mean?

"encourage variety instead of duplication" - They already had the option to use 2 different Arcanes if they wanted. Many players clearly did not want that. You didn't "encourage" anything, you required of them what they apparently did not want in the first place. And rubbing salt in the wound, gave them lower powered Arcanes, a longer grind/farm, and broken builds.

My personal bias: I'm somewhat casual and low end. (Frankly, the grind from BEFORE was too much for me - this one is utterly absurd (to me). I don't even know what Arcanes I have or use other than that one I like in my Mesa that makes me shoot faster.

[EDIT: grammar... nuts!]

Edited March 6, 2020 by Tokomi_

[Evhel]

With all the time and money i spent on arcane energize and grace these changes make me mad af.

I have played this game for a very long time and this time i'm really mad.

Revert this crap and never do it again.

RESPECT YOUR PLAYERS.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

5 hours ago, Skaleek said:

What the hell is arcane aegis even doing now? I have to be taking shield damage to trigger extra shield recharge? You guys know what disables shield recharge entirely right? Taking damage? What kind of backwards balance pass was this? Typical zero test implementation. This just rubs me the wrong way entirely.

I agree wholeheartedly. As a matter of fact, I’ve agreed to this claim for a span of 3-4 years now.

DE, c’mon. Pull up your pants, tighten up your belt, and fasten your bootstraps. Make sensible changes when balancing things, than just slapping on numbers and thoughtless conditions just to label it as “reinvigorating content.” 

I’ve been saying this for years since the nerf to the Telos Boltace: Slapping on cooldowns on anything is not a benefit to players using whatever content you subject them to use but as a means to conditionally frustrate them. The cooldowns you put on Arcanes like Guardian and Energize is that entirely. Either lower the cooldowns significantly or take out the cooldowns altogether.

Even if you’re using PC players as your “Beta testers” in this forever-beta update genre of a game that we’ve played for years, those players will still call you out on this poorly thought-out decision (as shown in the past couple of pages, elsewhere on the feedback forums, and most certainly on the live PC Update Feedback thread). And this sentiment will only get worse when this update hits consoles.

Seriously DE, please reconsider.

Edited March 6, 2020 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Kadromar]

The single copies I am totally fine with: No doubles is a fine rule to implement; however, the 5 rank change is absolutely egregious. You should have just left rank 3 as the cap and buffed values. The problem of a sudden supply of extras on the market would have been a far better situation than new players seeing they need to farm/buy 21 of each arcane they want to use. All my friends that used to play were driven away by the grind and RNG gating. It's utterly perplexing that you introduce more grind purely for the sake of grind. Whoever thought this was okay needs to be monitored closely, whoever is responsible for it should be removed from their position of decision-making.

Bad DE, very bad.

[Ikusias]

The only thing that I can comment about arcane changes: underwhelming and malicious.

Paing double the cost for one and a half the effect? when the effect was made crappier as well? Talk about idiotic if not scummy.

By changing the amount of arcanes needed to reach max rank and making them worse in effect to boot you just cared to add bait to the next event.

You don't want duplicate arcanes? You don't want people using the only decent ones? Your fault for being incompetent in designing the system in the first place!

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1 hour ago, (XB1)sinamanthediva said:

Diversity of Arcane usage was the rationale to justify the Arcane changes with the current update. I have no problem with that concept, but can sum up the actions DE has done in order to obtain these results, can be summarized in one word…….EVIL!!

Please give me ONE example of another game, that anyone has played for 5+ years, that was changed so dramatically as to require the players to completely redo the relentless grind that was achieved during those previous 5 years. It does NOT matter if Arcanes are not required, the point is that I DID the work to earn the luxury of using them!  To the best of my knowledge, I can't think of another game in history that has altered the rewards EARNED by those individuals, that CHOSE to grind for those rewards, so dramatically that would require them to complete most of that work, yet again, to achieve the values of the rewards already earned.  In some cases, the value of those rewards was diminished or altered so much as to make the reward value nearly equal to zero. 

Even if you could cite an example it would NOT make it RIGHT!

If DE felt the need to re-balance the game thru changing the values and actions that Arcanes would provide, then the logical and ethical course of action would be to change the values and usage rules of the Arcanes directly.  If DE felt that Arcane Energize, Arcane Guardian etc. was used to excessively, was too strong, fine then change the EFFECTS of those Arcanes to whatever DE thinks is appropriate to rebalance the game. It's that simple.

There is NO other word but EVIL that comes to mind to describe the changes that have occurred.

Please explain to me how selling the Arcanes during an Event is an acceptable course of action and worthy of praise for their actions? It might not require the task of an Eidelon Hunt but it is still forcing everyone to WORK again for an item that we ALREADY earned in the first place. It doesn’t matter what actions or work is required, it matters that I have to do additional work to obtain an item/reward that I already completed the work for in the first place. Why is this even a topic for discussion. I ALREADY DID THE WORK. I am not even bothering with factoring the amount additional work performed because of the statistical probabilities associated RNG with actually getting the desired Arcanes in the first place!

Example:

I run a 5 mile Marathon and earn a reward by completing the marathon. 5 years later I am told I can only keep the reward already earned, if I complete the 5 mile Marathon yet again. Why you ask? Because they felt like it.
Anyone that is OK with that please grab your crucifix and run to the nearest church for an exorcism.

It is NOT ethical, moral, acceptable whatever term you want to use, to justify DE’s course of actions regarding the requirement of its players, to obtain an additional 11 Arcanes per type to make the existing Arcanes have similar values, and in some cases less value, prior to the update.

It is deeply disconcerting to read comments that praise DE for there hard work when in fact, WE the Players, will be the ones required to earn/work yet again, to achieve the same, and in some cases, less valuable rewards.

Let us PRAY that DE will recognize the error of their ways and fix this Arcane debacle by simply altering the stats for Arcanes and also removing the requirement of needing 11 additional Arcanes.

God Bless us Tenno for having the compassion to forgive DE for their heinous actions with this update and giving them the opportunity to atone for their Sins!

This guy is a %#€£ing hero. Bless this Tenno’s post, for he most certainly will have a top floor to his elevator.

Thank you for calling out bull¥£%€ where it is needed. I farmed my butt off on Jordas Verdict years ago, and now we’re at this muddled crossroads that shouldn’t have been here to begin with.