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Warframe Revised: Removing Self-Damage / Stagger Megathread

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Corinth air burst does basically no damage. Unlike other aoe weapons which are basically single target now, with Corinth you literally CAN'T hit targets directly....

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If you need to nerf the Kuva Bramma then nerf it and not every single weapon with an AoE.

Self damage was better than these huge nerfs for weapons that were almost entirely niche or flat out mastery fodder. Any falloff at all is awful on weapons with small AoEs but 90% falloff has basically deleted them from existence.

 

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Posted (edited)

Propa and others amps have damage falloff. Undone it DE please. 

Edited by jeny2912
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Please revert this stagger mechanic, this is so horrible. It's the worst mechanic I've ever seen in 25 years of gaming. How did this make it live? I am so stressed right now, my entire account is destroyed if this stays. I have so much invested in items that are no longer usable.

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plz change 'convert damage effect' the  chroma 3rd abilityequinox 3rd ability augment 'peaceful provocation'

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Doesn't shield gating protect you from self damage kills? Seeing you speak about shield gating and removing self damage in the same Dev-Stream felt like there was some groupthink, or at least oversight from the team.

The stagger effects should be kept, I haven't even seen them all myself, but this new dimension of game play should not be sacrificed along with the work you've put into this self damage removal. 

However, I do not agree with your decision at all, the risk should remain when using explosive weapons. The self damage can be reduced, maybe even by 90%, whatever is required to reduce the rate of players downing themselves. Armor values have also been increased. You know the risk entering a mission using one of these weapons, and it does disrupt flow downing yourself and needing to be revived or re-spawn. Players have continued to use them, haven't they? It is a great change of pace to go from calculating where enemies heads or bodies are, to, "Where should I place this deadly projectile so that I can affect as many enemies as possible, without injuring myself?" Why take that away?

Consider adding the new stagger system to being struck by melee attacks. How strong is a Warframe, really? Should we be able to eat an elbow from a Bombard or Heavy Gunner without being physically displaced? 

Why not add self damage to more weapons, like the Drakgoon? You can have the shrapnel fly right back at you with no adverse effect. 

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Posted (edited)

Orvius gameplay feels like you just threw me a bottle of Viagra after telling me you removed that whole STD and unwanted pregnancy thing. Missions feel like non-stop boomkakke and I'm lovin' it!!! Thanks for this one DE. 🙂

Edited by MurderMurderMurder

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1. Having the Self-Damage in Option menu for Enable and Disable would solve tons of problems like Chroma wanting to do some Self-Damage for buff and some players maybe want to even die from Self-Damage for example it can solve some small buggs like not being able to use abilities etc.

2. Since Self-Damage no longer kills you but instead it pulls you back is another huge problem! for example when you use an Amp with 3 bubble shot it will pull you 3x back and that's pretty much annoying. It must be like if the Self-Damage is higher than your Shield + Health together then it must pull you back instead of killing you or doing any damage to you. Nobody really wants to be pulled back from every tiny bit of Self-Damage.

3. I think some Augment can still do Self-Damage I saw a Video with Secura Penta killing the player after the big update today! Now if DE decides to do also some changes here then they will face the same problem from Number 1, because some players want Self-Damage and some not.

 

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The stagger on concealed explosives make the mod and weapon unusable because of how large the aoe is.

Concealed explosives damage isnt that great either so equipping this mod will render anything unusable.

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I really like the fact that DE is trying to solve a problem with new mechanics. More often than not they develop something great but OH MY GOD remove this stagger ASAP. Say what you want about Warframe but it has always been a fast paced looter shooter where you could feel fast and powerful. But with this stagger i feel like a clumsy half-broken mechwarrior and NOT AT ALL like a space ninja. 😞

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Posted (edited)

Shraksun scaffold needs a tweak. The short stagger radius is so huge that aiming it at an enemy at max distance still causes the stagger. Hitting eidolons with it at optimal positions for the punch through practically guarantees a stagger as well. It's different from the other stagger-enabled weapons because the shraksun's range is fixed, so you can't avoid the interruption through proper aiming (if you want to hit anything with it) unlike the other AoE weapons.

The operator's strong stagger animation lock is quite slow so having it trigger with this scaffold at a range not clearly distinguishable from the explosion's VFX is a bit cumbersome.

Edited by Fleuretty
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9 hours ago, Voghelm said:

I'm positively sure this is exactly what people wanted self damage removed for. "Aim true, Tenno!" my ass lmao

Please, revert these changes. @TheLexiConArtist gave a number of great suggestions that are much better than what you've implemented currently. (Although personally I would've just reverted everything back to how it was) You've basically killed all the fun factor in all explosive weapons just because some lazy ass wanted to have Mirage blazing through every starchart mission in pub once again. ...

I honestly have no idea who's happy with these changes, besides the people that will either just spam Bramma until it's nerfed (or its dispo for that matter), or switch back to their beloved Melees/Catchmoons/Ignises in the next few days.

Jesus.

Disagree. The people who wanted the change are those who don't want AOE weapons in their public games.

Emphasis in quote added by me. 

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I like the stagger mechanic instead of self-damage, but increasing the range of AOE attacks makes avoiding the stagger more difficult and annoying. Perhaps change it to only cause stagger if you are closer to the centre of the explosion?

Also, the Staticor is broken now. Before the update, the charged attack caused self damage and the rapid fire attacks did not. You were able to punch enemies if you were right beside them with the rapid fire attacks. Now, both the charged attack and rapid fire attacks cause stagger, so you can't use the Staticor directly beside enemies anymore without stunlocking yourself. 

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This is horrific with operator Propa Scaffold.

There is no way to dump three shots, even if you void mode before the first explosion, still get stagger.

 

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Hello, two things I would like to say.  First, please note that removing self damage can also be seen as a nerf to Mirage warframe, not just Chroma.  Being able to proc heat or electric status on herself allowed her to get damage buffs while in dark areas such as night time Cetus.  Now this is no longer possible.

Second, I have to say i strongly dislike the massive nerf of non-explosive AOE weapons such as the staticor and tombfinger.  You added the stagger effect to them, which already is a massive nerf, but then went further and reduced their damage.  Your reasoning for reducing the damage up to 90% then references the tonkor, an explosive aoe weapon.  Why punish the weaker non-explosive AOE weapons as well?  I don't see the logic.

Thank you,
Mark

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no no no 90% fall off is bad.

how about AOE HEAL ENEMIES if not direct impact

so tenno will realize how important "AIM TRUE" is? 🤩

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Posted (edited)

You RUINED the Staticor with the Stagger effect; it didn't have self-damage, so change it back! I tested using it thoroughly and found it nearly -impossible- to mitigate the stagger when I pop an AOE bubble. My favorite weapon, favorite of ALL TYPES is now a game-slowing, fun-limiting option. I don't enjoy using it anymore and that makes me both furious and sad. Forma, including a forma'd exilus slot bought with platinum now wasted. WHO ASKED FOR THIS?!

Edited by Osujin
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5 minutes ago, Osujin said:

You RUINED the Staticor with the Stagger effect; it didn't have self-damage, so change it back! I tested using it thoroughly and found it nearly -impossible- to mitigate the stagger when I pop an AOE bubble. My favorite weapon, favorite of ALL TYPES is now a game-slowing, fun-limiting option. I don't enjoy using it anymore and that makes me both furious and sad. Forma, including a forma'd exilus slot bought with platinum now wasted. WHO ASKED FOR THIS?!

I wholeheartedly agreed with my buddy here, please change the Staticor back to have zero stagger...please.

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The 90% penalty to aoe weapons is pretty harsh and does defeat the purpose of aoe imo, maybe a 50% penalty is more fair?

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After considerable testing:

1) The radial reduction is FAR too great. I appreciate you wanting to iterate upwards but 10% is an absolutely ludicrous place to start.

2) The stagger radius of all the weapons that used to not deal self-damage needs to be at least cut in half, or their damage needs a huge buff to make up for the change. It's extremely uncool to constantly being interrupting your own fire when enemies decide to get close with weapons that used to have no downside.

3) Cautious Shot does not do enough now. There should be a 90% chance to completely eliminate basic stagger and to decrease high stagger to basic interrupt. It is not worth the slot on most AoE weapons now whereas until now it was practically necessary.

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First of all, I really appreciate what you're doing to try to avoid everyone flocking to explosive weapons now that the self damage is gone, however I think the approach may have been a bit too harsh in some cases, especially with the weapons that aren't your traditional explosives. 

Some examples of this would be the Kuva Chakhurr or the Akarius. These weapons were designed with effective AOE in mind, even to the point where the Akarius or Acceltra won't explode if you are within the effective range of the weapon when you fire. I would ask that weapons that did not deal self damage prior to this update be revisited, as they were previously balanced in accordance with that. I would say this particularly affects the Kuva Chakhurr as at the moment it is struggling to kill more than one enemy at once, and due to its slow fire rate and reload speed, that is an issue.

Thanks DE for all your hard work! I appreciate you spending time working on core gameplay mechanics as opposed to new content. Keep it up!

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This is by far the most horrible part of the entire update. 20% dmg boost with 50% dmg fall off was a considerable nerf, but something that would probably have kept the weapons at least usable to some extent. 90% dmg falloff with no dmg buff basically kills the purpose in those weapons even existing. They are clunky to use single target weapons now. It was really poorly thought out, a classic knee jerk reaction that shows lack of thought or understanding. It really soured what could have been a more exciting update for me otherwise. 

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My penta is no longer effective as an AOE weapon, why? Did yall not like that people took the no effort spam splosionbow that you put into the game and spammed it? Why would you even add falloff after removing self damage, if anything we shoulda had falloff before when we could blap ourselves and now that we cant they should be doing full damage in a weapons radius. This change is backwards af and literally the only launcher that I liked and used is useless at its intended role.

 

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32 minutes ago, Tuna4242 said:

The 90% penalty to aoe weapons is pretty harsh and does defeat the purpose of aoe imo, maybe a 50% penalty is more fair?

I would say 50% max and the scaling starts at the outer edge of the blast, not at the center.

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