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Warframe Revised: Removing Self-Damage / Stagger Megathread

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15 minutes ago, Jeancly said:

comn, chroma is still perfectly usable, you won't have your max stats on comand, but just play a bit and they will come up, and since you can recast it's not even an issue. Chroma just requires a rework because of his 1 and 4, but his 2 and 3 are still perfectly usable.

Why would just one frame have to stand in front of a gun barrel to gain its buffs instead of getting them instantly like everyone else? Chroma needs to get hit to gain buffs, which was previously justified due to their power, but got diminished once 3 got nerfed (while completely missing the goal of said nerf). Self-damage gave an opportunity to be able to use the buffs in a controlled manner, one that did not disrupt the flow of the game or put the player in unnecessary risk at higher levels (as Chroma's survivability is definitely not what it used to be). DE have acknowledged that these changes impact Chroma, twice, once when Cerata's self-damage was removed, and again during the latest devstream; but instead of actually implementing sorely needed changes in the frame's mechanics (1 is useless, his passive is a unique mechanic, not a passive, it's like saying that Ivara's Quiver or Equinox's day/night forms are passives, 4 is situational at best, 2 could use being recastable) to make his gameplay still viable after the removal of self-damage, they just went "it harms him but benefits the others, deal with it". Oh, but here's a Titania revamp.

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OK this is probably the most ill conceived part of this update:

Aoe weapons were already of questionable utility compared to flamers and other horde killer weapons without downsides, area of effect were already quite small for explosive weapons, you went and made the actual damage even worse by deleting 9/10 of it in the blast area?!

I have no words to comment this idiocy...

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5 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

I'm sorry but this is completely screwed up. This is the state of explosive weapons now. You can literally play as a walking explosion.

temp.gif

You've basically removed Self-Damage completely by applying this change to Primed Sure-Footed. Which also means you've given a massive lazy strategy that people will have to wait years for.

you are funny 😂 just because there is a ''lazy strategy'' doesn't mean everyone will be lazy, people can play whatever they like, were you also talking about people who were spinning all the way across the map with whips and maiming strike, or were you one of those ''spin to win'' players too?

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6k hours in this game, i just uninstalled NO JOKE

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Just now, Adem940 said:

you are funny 😂 just because there is a ''lazy strategy'' doesn't mean everyone will be lazy, people can play whatever they like, were you also talking about people who were spinning all the way across the map with whips and maiming strike, or were you one of those ''spin to win'' players too?

Nope. Before the recent melee changes, I barely touched melee. The only reason why I'm using melee more is because of jump attacks. The problem is very simple. With Primed Surefooted, you can fire the Kuva Ogris as a standard Semi-auto Rifle. Oh look, Butcher up ahead, sprint towards him and fire when your barrel touches him. Nothing happens to you. It's horrible because right now, I'm looking at a lot of my guns and thinking, "I use Primed Surefooted on most of my builds anyways, why do I have all these weapons when I can just use explosive weapons with absolutely no penalties?"

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11 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

I'm sorry but this is completely screwed up. This is the state of explosive weapons now. You can literally play as a walking explosion.

temp.gif

You've basically removed Self-Damage completely by applying this change to Primed Sure-Footed. Which also means you've given a massive lazy strategy that people will have to wait years for.

ha yes, i am sure that this strategy will obviously be extremely useful past level 100 (not). what are you doing with this GIF? starchart?

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5 minutes ago, Ikusias said:

OK this is probably the most ill conceived part of this update:

Aoe weapons were already of questionable utility compared to flamers and other horde killer weapons without downsides, area of effect were already quite small for explosive weapons, you went and made the actual damage even worse by deleting 9/10 of it in the blast area?!

I have no words to comment this idiocy...

DE doesn't seem to realize that there is better weapons than AoE ones, without any downside. at all. their vision of their own game is flawed and wrong, it's genuinely impressive.

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1 minute ago, mikakor said:

ha yes, i am sure that this strategy will obviously be extremely useful past level 100 (not). what are you doing with this GIF? starchart?

Those are level 50 Grineer with a semi-built Gas/Cold Kuva Ogris, if you properly built it, you can probably curb stomp level 80 enemies at pointblank.

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3 minutes ago, Xnidior said:

6k hours in this game, i just uninstalled NO JOKE

Thinking about same mate...

Game is too hectic anyway so they killed fun in two weapons i loved - Plasmor plus Staticor...

How can you play with em if you gonna piss of your teammates. Staticor charged goes into group, there come your party members in melee... Stagger!! imagine what will they tell you.

Dmg nerf 90 percent wtf

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Posted (edited)

Not really liking this change personally, having to dumb down an obvious downside on powerful aoe weapons for people who can't bother to aim isn't the way to go. I'm more curious as to why cautious shot couldn't have been reworked into an exilus or something to that effect. Some actual technical specifics would be nice instead of just saying something about mod structure. The weapons feel generally weaker, even in the center blast radius and the stagger is quite jarring when it happens suddenly. I've blown myself into the ceiling several times already.

These weapons just aren't fun anymore, and some the stagger choices don't make sense. 

Edited by TheGuyver
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Posted (edited)

HMMm, not good at all, 90% fall-off is steep AF, kuva ogris escapes barely since heat procs from nightwatch napalm help redistribute damage, but sucks overall, with the new update, my shedu is doing basically double digit damage on edge of explosion, same for ogris without nightwatch napalm, also gas is bugged, the damage is pretty much 1/3rd of what it was b4 rework

Edited by XDsnowman
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Nezha's warding halo appears to completely nullify the stagger effect, tested with the secura penta. This implies to me that other warframe powers that negate status effects will do the same, and that at least should be looked at. I just spent an entire mission blowing up my own feet, and that's a bit against the intent of the change.

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The 90% damange falloff on the Astilla with its tiny AoE is ridiculous and makes it practically not an AoE weapon at all. Please revert this. It was not even close to overpowered before, and it's just not fun now.

 

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* Stagger instead of self-damage (usually: instant suicide) is greatly appreciated and a really good change.

* AoE damage fall-off is much too steep. Imo they should do full damage to half the explosion radius, and only from there fall off to 50% at the edge.

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I really appreaciate the removal of self damage, but the falloff is really excessive... Bring it to a 50% or something around that please, 90% is overly punishing for the entire category of projectile weapons with added area of effect.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

I'm sorry but this is completely screwed up. This is the state of explosive weapons now. You can literally play as a walking explosion.

temp.gif

You've basically removed Self-Damage completely by applying this change to Primed Sure-Footed. Which also means you've given a massive lazy strategy that people will have to wait years for.

I'm positively sure this is exactly what people wanted self damage removed for. "Aim true, Tenno!" my ass lmao

Please, revert these changes. @TheLexiConArtist gave a number of great suggestions that are much better than what you've implemented currently. (Although personally I would've just reverted everything back to how it was) You've basically killed all the fun factor in all explosive weapons just because some lazy ass wanted to have Mirage blazing through every starchart mission in pub once again. And you've also axed all weapons that had some sort of AoE effect for no bloody reason at all. Why would you even do this to us?

You release Bramma, people start to think it's "the META weapon", and then you just remove self damage. What an interesting timing, really.

I honestly get a feeling you guys wanted to just butcher AOE for a while now (for whatever reason), and now with people demanding removal of self damage because of Bramma you've put 2 and 2 together and dumped this onto us.

I honestly have no idea who's happy with these changes, besides the people that will either just spam Bramma until it's nerfed (or its dispo for that matter), or switch back to their beloved Melees/Catchmoons/Ignises in the next few days.

Jesus.

Edited by Voghelm
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23 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

I'm sorry but this is completely screwed up. This is the state of explosive weapons now. You can literally play as a walking explosion.

temp.gif

You've basically removed Self-Damage completely by applying this change to Primed Sure-Footed. Which also means you've given a massive lazy strategy that people will have to wait years for.

Yay..... not. You can do that, but the massive damage fallout made explosive weapons just BAD. they don't have DPS, but had a nice damage radius before. Now they have neither.

Also melee weapons do that much more easily with a lot more dps. 

 

Damage radius chance was awful and made most blast AOE weapons worthless, just remove that chance and nerf the Kuva Bramma(the only AOE weapon that is too good in any way).

 

Did you even test this chance before you put it in the game? AOE weapons are about the blast radius, unless you give them a LOT more DPS(not counting the bramma).

 

PS.

Nice that you finally make chances, but most of them aren't all that good. Arcane chance is a massive grind increase and has no balance, but idea is solid.

This chance is just plain bad and needs to looked up fast.  

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3 minutes ago, Hopeasusi said:

Yay..... not. You can do that, but the massive damage fallout made explosive weapons just BAD. they don't have DPS, but had a nice damage radius before. Now they have neither.

Also melee weapons do that much more easily with a lot more dps. 

That's a very fair argument. But then again, people just expected to be able to shoot at their feet with no falloff whatsoever, so even they will be unhappy about this now lmao.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Hopeasusi said:

Yay..... not. You can do that, but the massive damage fallout made explosive weapons just BAD. they don't have DPS, but had a nice damage radius before. Now they have neither.

Also melee weapons do that much more easily with a lot more dps. 

Which puts them in an even more awkward spot of, they penalize them from high risk area damage to near point-blank mash to get full hits in. This isn't even the worst of it, the Kuva Ogris is not the strongest example. Things like the Kulstar exists and right now, it essentially functions as radial shotgun and a distant pepper sprayer. So what are they for? High risk, high reward area bomber? No risk, hurrdurr floor pseudo-Gunblades?

temp.gif

This is ESO with a Viral Kulstar. If it's still about DPS, no, you can build the Kulstar to have more DPS than the Tiberon Prime before factoring the cluster bombs.

Edited by RX-3DR
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The 90% reduction should not be linear drop off.
Right now you already lose damage unless you hit the enemy directly with the aoe projectile.

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If there is a self stagger mechanic added into the game, why do the tonkor shots still need the minimum range for those shots to explode. If I shoot the tonkor near my legs, the shots still don't explode.

Technically, these shots should now explode even if shot close to my Warframe.

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The (Secura) Penta with the Mod Napalm Grenades equipped still does Self-Damage

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i understand that each weapon should have both pros and cons. but explosives it's about carpet bombing, not aiming. i doubt 90 falloff is fair 

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Cannot use sonicor indoors at close range.

Ridiculous amount of self knockback.

this is not a powerful damage weapon, I only use it for cc.

Stop this.

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