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Warframe Revised: Titania Changes & Armor Changes


SilverBones
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14 hours ago, Seeryx said:

And what exactly she can do really good apart from outputting DPS?

Index powerhouse

Bosses very easy mode

Trivialize capture, exterminate, rescue, disruption, defection

Obliterating anything on Open Worlds as well as fastest movement on the whole game. Also, best mobility and that's not up for discussion. 

Lantern + Tribute + Razorwing = LMFAO on Railjack Veil Missions. 

Best DPS for Eidolons now that Chroma and Mirage are dead and Arcane Precision is 300% and Velocity is 120%.

Trouble on MR tests? LOL

Anything else? You either think Titania sucks and doesn't know how to build her or you do know how to build her and see she is one of the most versatile and powerful frames in the game. There's no option in between.

Edited by (NSW)Bayodrake
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As a 2k hour playtime Titania Main, I am cringing on most of the complaints on this thread. I think people are just whining to have something to say because it is unfathomable how can someone complain about we finally being able to chose our buffs or not being forced to drag our faces on the ground in order to pick items. The buff picking system is amazing, vacuum is the best thing to ever happen to her, Titania is fine after the buffs and I highly appreciate DE taking a look at her 🙂

Apart from the Tribute glitch, which I'm sure will be fixed as soon as possible, would be good to take a look at her 1. It's useless as she has Lantern and it's much more functional after the buff. You should really consider scrapping it and adding some sort of control over the Razorflies as they are the most pointless part of her kit. They are just too weak to do anything at mid-level content and up, so either let them scale with enemy level (nothing Octavia's Mallet and Vauban's mines don't do already) or let the Razorflies be weak, but make them immortal so we at least have them as distraction for the enemy mobs. Adding them as exalted companion would also let people choose to equip vacuum or not, so some of the senseless complaints would cease.

Also, full moon is a bad buff....except if the Razorflies become an exalted companion and we can actually get something by synergizing them 😉 Making the Razorflies exalted companions and making Titania's 1 related to them is the final step on going beyond the just "fine" situation she is now and letting her stand side by side with the Mesas, Saryns, Octavias and Wisps this game has.

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6 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Ivara is the best DPS here.

She still lacks the efficiency and survivability (I can't BELIEVE I'm actually saying that about Titania. These buffs were everything ❤️) Titania has. Also, she's way more practical than Ivara for the job. May be the same situation between Mirage and Chroma. Mirage did more damage but Chroma was way more practical.

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‼️BUG: Currently Titania's Tribute doesn't spawn any buffs to pick up. So the ability is COMPLETELY non-functional. ‼️

On another note:

-Tribute buffs should apply to her Razorflies

-Spellbind needs higher base radius

-I'm told "Entangle"-buff only reduces MOVEMENT speed, not just movement speed. Pls fix that if true

-reduce general energy costs during Razorwing or just reduce base energy costs a bit (mostly Tribute)

-make Spellbind also collect all Tribute souls

-❤️PLS make Spellbind create an area on the ground that buffs allies and self with bonus damage (maybe cold damage and forced pros) and passive bullet jump buff

 

👍Love the changes thus far and her new ult animation is gorgeous. Those are just my suggestion to make her better and more interesting / fun to play. Other players had really nice suggestions as well.

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9 часов назад, Greystrun сказал:

What would you tell me if I were to ask you "what can Saryn do really good apart from AoE damage"? Both output DPS, but in different ways. Which, in my opinion, Titania is more fun to play with.

Actually quite a lot. Her Molt is a very useful survivability feature with a bit of reasonably reliable CC tacked on top. Venom Dose can skyrocket the damage of the entire team: +250% Corrosive damage is huge. And both can be specialized in without making her core kit useless. I haven't seriously dabbled in Toxic Lash builds, but they can probably add a handy AoE effect to a lot of powerful but slow single-shot weapons. Even her DPS output has depth to it, with the spore count, spread and Miasma interactions. While Titania is just pure and simple stream of bullets.

 

Titania, on the other hand, has super-niche Spellbind that has 13m AoE at best - it requires essentially constant recasts to keep new enemies CC'd, leaving you with little time to actually kill stuff. And Lantern is one of the most unreliable CC sources in game. Even when fully specialized in both are completely underwhelming while crippling Razorwing, her one really useful ability.

That's why I call it a one-trick pony. Build towards Razorwing or bust.

 

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1 час назад, (NSW)Bayodrake сказал:

Anything else? You either think Titania sucks and doesn't know how to build her or you do know how to build her and see she is one of the most versatile and powerful frames in the game. There's no option in between.

There's an option in between: you didn't really read or get my post.

It's lovely that I asked 'what she can do apart from plain DPS?' and you proceeded to name the cases where her plain DPS shines. Well, that and mobility - but honestly, unless you're counting each second, a skilled bullet-jumper won't be much slower in most tilesets.

 

I know her 4 is powerful. Power isn't a problem. She is a powerhouse with exactly one true build with very little variation. The entire discussion was about how everything else is extremely niche at best. Compare to recent warframes that generally have 2-3 viable options.

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1 hour ago, Seeryx said:

There's an option in between: you didn't really read or get my post.

It's lovely that I asked 'what she can do apart from plain DPS?' and you proceeded to name the cases where her plain DPS shines. Well, that and mobility - but honestly, unless you're counting each second, a skilled bullet-jumper won't be much slower in most tilesets.

 

I know her 4 is powerful. Power isn't a problem. She is a powerhouse with exactly one true build with very little variation. The entire discussion was about how everything else is extremely niche at best. Compare to recent warframes that generally have 2-3 viable options.

Dear, I read your post. And that's exactly what I am talking about. DPS and mobility "only"? "ONLY"? You realize that's pretty much 50% of the gameplay, right? DPS is not a simple category per se, but it branches over all the implications I wrote. Mesa and Saryn are amazing DPS's, but they can't do S#&$ to Eidolons...and Titania just became the best Eidolon Hunter. Rhino can put tons of damage with roar...still not enough to tear veil enemies as fast as Queen Titania does. DPS, Mobility, Stealth and Survivability all branch on different uses and that's where we use frames that are most efficient for the job (Trinity excels in survivability more than anyone. Is she bad because she is the best "only" at that? Or Wukong? He's good at all four categories, but is not the best in any...so, is he a bad frame?) and Titania is checking many of the boxes there. Damn, she can even manage stealth and with the last buffs in armor + shield gating + dust and thorn anytime anywhere + Aerodynamic and Aviator + Lantern actually working she becomes a literal tank.

Aside from the uselessness of razorflies and full moon that needs desperately to be addressed, Titania is quite fine right now. Not in the same level as the Mesas, Saryns, Octavias and Wisps, but is time we drop this "Titania sucks" hivemind because it's not true.

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13 minutes ago, (NSW)Bayodrake said:

but is time we drop this "Titania sucks" hivemind because it's not true.

It's true. You can spend a lot of investment in the build on strength + pistol arcane, but the truth is that I can take OP normal weapons and this will show that your investment is just nothing, because I will just be better. Kuva nukor is able to split level 200 mobs and is an AOE weapon. Kyva bramma is able to easily kill level 150 mobs without even aiming at them. Where is this DPS important? Hunting? I have already said that Ivara + castanas is the most convenient way. And you can always take a rhino and a sniper rifle. Or Oberon, which also provides a good radiation buff. But we all know that there is nothing to do without Volts. If we are talking about a level of 500 or higher, then enter the abilities that do not worry about the level and Vauban has a lot of such abilities now. What is Titania, in addition to the flight, good? 

You say that DPS is important , but we already have weapons that completely negate this. And now look at wisp, useful buffs, useful protection, useful control, useless damage ability. If damage is so important, why is Wisp so popular?

 

Edited by zhellon
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18 hours ago, Wolvjavin said:

 

Second, reverse how tribute's cycle works. It should be hold to cycle and tap to use. Makes it very awkward to use currently as when I'm playing a fast paced game and want to use my buff real quick it instead cycles the tribute. It also makes the ability feel clunkier than it did prepatch.

 

This is a Configuration setting (it affects Ivara and Vauban too)

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1 час назад, (NSW)Bayodrake сказал:

Dear, I read your post.

Ahaha, well, no. Ok, I'll repeat once more. 

Nowhere I said Titania sucks. Stop fighting that strawman. I keep repeating that her kit is extremely one-dimensional, with abilities other than Razorwing completely not worth investing into. Or impossible to invest in, like Tribute. All the new or reworked frames get at least 2-3 builds to chose from, Titania gets a grand one. 

You mention Trinity, but you don't understand she's an example of the exact same problem. She's an old frame and just like many really old frames her kit is just as one-dimensional. Trinity mains have asked for a slightly less boring or redundant abilities for years.

 

And let me repeat that again for clarity: Razorwing is great, the rest of kit is bad. 1 out of 4 abilities being really useful isn't an ok thing for a warframe in 2020 - especially after three reworks.

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5 hours ago, (XB1)Taz Deduction said:

Can we PLEASE have a way to not only increase the max number of drones, but heal and replace them while remaining in Razorwing!? 

You can do that right now - you get a new razorfly every tribute pickup, up to 8 max.

 

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4 hours ago, zhellon said:

It's true. You can spend a lot of investment in the build on strength + pistol arcane, but the truth is that I can take OP normal weapons and this will show that your investment is just nothing, because I will just be better. Kuva nukor is able to split level 200 mobs and is an AOE weapon. Kyva bramma is able to easily kill level 150 mobs without even aiming at them. Where is this DPS important? Hunting? I have already said that Ivara + castanas is the most convenient way. And you can always take a rhino and a sniper rifle. Or Oberon, which also provides a good radiation buff. But we all know that there is nothing to do without Volts. If we are talking about a level of 500 or higher, then enter the abilities that do not worry about the level and Vauban has a lot of such abilities now. What is Titania, in addition to the flight, good? 

You say that DPS is important , but we already have weapons that completely negate this. And now look at wisp, useful buffs, useful protection, useful control, useless damage ability. If damage is so important, why is Wisp so popular?

 

Thats the core of Titania's failings and limits!

Also:

- she can do DPS semi decently due to the limits of exalted weapons in general... and that's it, you can literaly ignore the rest of her kit...

 

- her other powers are barely mediocre, worse multiple other frames have similar or better abilities that make hers redundant

 

  Notice how all her powers have some kind of a secondary effect to try and make them not suck:

  > Spellbind: small area cc + self/ally status removal (semi useful and DE finally fixed controls for the second part to not need a target for self cast... after years we were asking for it)

 

  > Tribute: 4 boosts with fixed area, duration and effect + mediocre direct damage and knockdown on enemies on cast (need to go pick up a token to start the effect WTH)

                    Dust unmoddable - 50% to enemy accuracy NOT 50% absolute miss chance - worse than a direct buff to evasion mechanically and due to limited range

                    Thorns 50% damage reduction + % damage reflection - 1st half useful because it's "reliable", damage reflection useless due to enemy scaling mechanics

                    Entangle: 25% slowed enemy movement only... basically a worse cold proc, with a range at which enemies prefer shooting you instead of running up to hit you

                    Full Moon bonuses to pets... Titania's stores hers away for razorwing and razorflies die like... well flies (eccept at very low levels were they killsteal your targetst)

 

  > Lantern: very slow effect "lure" + limited Dps effect + AoE damage on command by forced deactivation

 

  > Razorwing: a mobility mode (activation completely kills momentum and movement instead of flowing like Limbo's RiftWalking)

                      + evasion bonus (fixed and ummoddable, only a single mod existing that adds a +6 to this vaguely defined parameter)

                      + exalted secondary (bastardized hybrid of akstiletto prime with the downsides of dual decurion and no access to acolyte and riven mods)

                      + exalted melee (mediocre and can't equip acolite mods or rivens + rigorously single target at extreme close range = surclassed by standard melees and zaws)

                      + fixed number of low HP uncontrollable drones that get lost all around and aggro the entire map making stealth in razorwing impossible

 

I believe DE had no clear idea of what to do with her kit besides "archwing in regular tileset whooopeee!" as all her powers are a clutter of unrelated things.

 

A blanket wishlist of ideas/improvements, Qol necessities:

<> Lantern and spellbind could/should be simply put together as a single power with different effect depending on mode of use / power interaction

      Keep Spellbind as is, maybe with a bit more base radius, on tap cast on target,  move self-status removal to untargeted cast instead of hold cast, it's really slow now

      Hold cast to generate Lantern basic cc with better effect spread speed, add interaction with razorflies to generate Lantern current AoE damage over time effect

 

<> Tribute could benefit from losing its wimpy damage on cast, keeping only the knockdown

      Give some kind of benefit for the risk and delay of going to pick the damn token through enemy fire

      >Alternatively make tribute work like Nidus stacks instead of requiring energy consumption< although this would require alot more work...

      Tributes are completely unmoddable powers, a certain degree of moddability would be much apreciated, if not worse than current situation

      Tributes as enemy debuffs play worse than partywide buffs (like Wisp,Trinity, Oberon or Harrow have to offer) I'd so much like to steal Wisp's mechanics for buffs...

      Tribute selection needs improvements, better tap to cast and hold to change selection that the klunker we have now, I still keep changing tributes instead of casting them

      Tribute UI needs a major pass for readability, symbols are too similar, text tooltip is too small and off the way during gameplay, completely diverting player focus

 

<> Lantern is a waste of a power slot,  a second "clunkier" form Spellbind, its cc usually overridden by enemy aggro (or death) and its own spread slowness

<> fusing Lantern into Spellbind (or viceversa) could free a slot for Razorflies in a hybrid of Itzal's drones and Khora's Venari pseudo pet 2.0 controllability

     Razorflies could be refreshed/replaced similarly to Shadows of the Dead or Rumblers by a hold cast

     tapping the power could be used to cycle behaviour:

       from automatic unfocused offense (current behaviour) to single/area targeted attack, to  efense/meatshield for self (current behaviour) or targeted ally/objective/Vip

     Casting Razorflies on a Spellbound enemy could be used to turn it into a Lantern, with multiple castings increasing effect / area affected by the lure and/or its damage

     Razorflies modding should significantly improve durability, cc, damage to mantain utility regardless of enemy level

 

<> Razorwing got really too much stuff pushed into it - I'd rather have the originally planned energy cost reduction on the other powers and move razorflies out of it

     Current flight model is an improvement but i'm hitting doors and obstacles much more, her speed is limited to full stop - walking - full dash

     Lack of acceleration precludes finer control, also dodge roll and height changes feel much slower than with the older flight model

     Razorwing Blitz feels currently unusable at any positive power strenght and stacking due to lack of progressive accelleration before reaching full speed maneuvering

       The augment feels mostly superfluous now due to speed issues it band-aided being partially solved by the ability of dashing in Razorwing since previous update

 

Honestly I see Titania and think Wasp (flight + combat) + Antman (bug control + party support) from the Avengers, what we got instead is a patchwork that finally reached a barely acceptable standard after three workshops, when most of her issues were known from and criticized from day one and could have been fixed maybe that very same week.

 

She can be much better and more enjoyable than hos she is currently - and deserves it considering that's one of the most annoying frames to farm, needing scans from most of the Sol System, including locations that are unlocked only after a series of major quest and, on top of it, a lot of formas as well: for the frame itself, for her razorwing guns and for her razorwing melee

 

Edited by Ikusias
Better formatting, paragraphs breaks and readability, again
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ok regarding pets a while back you made a change so titania in flight form would suck up with whatever pet vacuum or fetch they had.....that was a big deal.

 

Sad thing is when in flight form, with Smeeta ...Charm doesnt trigger at all. Yep she is a powerhouse just did kuva survival....but only time when out of flight is when Charm will proc, since you cant force when charm procs.....its sort of like yep no bonus crit or affinity boosts while being in 4. So back to my Inaros, at least I dont screw myself  out of extra loot or crits over when using his abilities.

Again why we dont use Titania except for special missions....

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2 hours ago, Phingers said:

ok regarding pets a while back you made a change so titania in flight form would suck up with whatever pet vacuum or fetch they had

Correction: This is what they SHOULD have done, what they did was made it innate. Not giving players the option to use it or not because why have options in a game with a modding system.

Edited by Pixzia
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8 hours ago, Ikusias said:
- she can do DPS semi decently due to the limits of exalted weapons in general... and that's it, you can literaly ignore the rest of her kit...

And now, once again. I can do DPS on ANY frame, even Trinity, and it doesn 't make me ignore abilities.

8 hours ago, Ikusias said:

Spellbind: small area cc +self/ally status removal (semi useful and DE finally fixed controls for the second part to not need a target for self cast... after years we were asking for it)

The main complaint about spellbind is that they are flying enemies. Corny, if the enemies were much slower in the air or Titania could control them, it would be much better. Now this is just a status immunity, which makes only half of the ability useful . And that could be part of the Tribute.In fact, the fact that spellbind can now be applied to itself is not a solution to the problem, but just a plug.

8 hours ago, Ikusias said:

> Tribute: 4 boosts with fixed area, duration and effect + mediocre direct damage and knockdown on enemies on cast (need to go pick up a token to start the effect WTH)

Dust unmoddable - 50% to enemy accuracy NOT 50% absolute miss chance - worse than a direct buff to evasion mechanically and due to limited range

Thorns 50% damage reduction + % damage reflection - 1st half useful because it's "reliable", damage reflection useless due to enemy scaling mechanics

Entangle: 25% slowed enemy movement only... basically a worse cold proc, with a range at which enemies prefer shooting you instead of running up to hit you

Full Moon bonuses to pets... Titania's stores hers away for razorwing and razorflies die like... well flies (eccept at very low levels were they killsteal your targetst)

 

> Lantern: very slow effect "lure" + limited Dps effect + AoE damage on command by forced deactivation

 

> Razorwing: a mobility mode (activation completely kills momentum and movement instead of flowing like Limbo's RiftWalking)

+ evasion bonus (fixed and ummoddable, only a single mod existing that adds a +6 to this vaguely defined parameter)

+ exalted secondary (bastardized hybrid of akstiletto prime with the downsides of dual decurion and no access to acolyte and riven mods)

+ exalted melee (mediocre and can't equip acolite mods or rivens+ rigorously single target at extreme close range = surclassed by standard melees and zaws)

+ fixed number of low HP uncontrollable drones that get lost all around and aggro the entire map making stealth in razorwing impossible

 

I believe DE had no clear idea of what to do with her kit besides "archwing in regular tileset whooopeee!" as all her powers are a clutter of unrelated things.

That's why we need a system that works well with archwing. I would suggest combining a buff/debuff tribute and a Lantern To create Lantern objects that emit auras, have infinite duration, and can be carried by Titania. So positioning Lanterns will be the main gameplay and razorwing mobility will really benefit from this. Yes, it will be more difficult than just getting buffs for 120 seconds (which in most cases work strangely and it feels like they can 't penetrate walls), but positioning objects will be more fun than just knocking over a mob 4 times in a row... And we will face a choice, because we can only carry 1 buff on fast missions (Yes, we can create 4, but it will cost energy), but if the buffs/ debuffs are strong , this choice will be good.

9 hours ago, Ikusias said:

> Razorwing: a mobility mode (activation completely kills momentum and movement instead of flowing like Limbo's RiftWalking)

+ evasion bonus (fixed and ummoddable, only a single mod existing that adds a +6 to this vaguely defined parameter)

+ exalted secondary (bastardized hybrid of akstiletto prime with the downsides of dual decurion and no access to acolyte and riven mods)

+ exalted melee (mediocre and can't equip acolite mods or rivens+ rigorously single target at extreme close range = surclassed by standard melees and zaws)

+ fixed number of low HP uncontrollable drones that get lost all around and aggro the entire map making stealth in razorwing impossible

I believe that razorwing should be divided into 3 abilities.

Razorfly can be very easily implemented as: click the button to teleport the razorfly to yourself, hold the button to restore the dead razorfly.

Dex Pixia /Divata, Yes this is a strong weapon, but there is nothing unique about it. As I mentioned, DPS in the game is not so important. I never felt the lack of it. Moreover, Dex Pixia got a nerf when it became a gun, because we can no longer amplify critical shots with Vigilante mods. If people are interested in this, I don't mind having an ability that I won't use, but my opinion is that if Dex Pixia/DIvata is a normal weapon that doesn't have unique properties, then a normal damage buff will work better. That is, either remove these exalted weapons and give them a damage buff as compensation, or give them something that will at least be fun to play with.I will remind you again, DPS does not matter, everything can be compensated with normal weapons without investing in strength and energy efficiency.

Archwing mode, as you said, the other abilities do not benefit from it. I feel that now it is like a Wukong cloud that is only suitable for movement (and the cloud is also fast enough). But you know what's even faster? Regular Titania bulletjump. And I think that archwing mode would be much better without constant energy costs, restrictions on weapons and the ability to normally use companions. A banal cat +30% crit will make the same Dex Pixia even stronger. 

But I don't think it really matters anymore. I play on the first three abilities and I think that 50% of the DR is very helpful for the survival of allies and objects. The rest is small things. When I see Titania trying to kill things with razorwing and sometimes dying, I just laugh and keep killing groups of enemies that can't do anything to me .

I'm thinking of offering this idea as a new warframe , but I can see there are already more than 100 pages, so it doesn't matter either.

 

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On 2020-03-05 at 11:35 AM, SvenKajima said:

Please return the Tribute to the previous system. It is much easier for Titania to just cast it on selected enemies rather than to cycle like vauban or ivara. I hope you do know cycling a buff is very annoying when you want to just support the team very quick.

Other than the Tribute change, I am very happy with this new rework on Titania. But please revert back the Tribute system, I honestly believe you just need to give better description on which type of enemies gives the buff/debuff. But I will give it a try

I can think of a couple better options:

1:  Keep the selection system, but make it automatically cycle to the next buff when cast.  Ideally, you want all four active rather than picking between them like most of the other similar abilities.

2:  Just make it generate a random buff, with priority given to inactive ones so that you can't get a repeat unless all of them are active.

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5 minutes ago, zuraja said:

1: Keep the selection system, but make it automatically cycle to the next buff when cast. Ideally, you want all four active rather than picking between them like most of the other similar abilities.

2: Just make it generate a random buff, with priority given to inactive ones so that you can't get a repeat unless all of them are active.

Both of these options are not viable for new players who don't have infinite energy.  The current system works only because a person has a choice of what is worth spending energy on and what is not.

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Titania has a lot going on for her, and it's great to see tweaks time and again on released Warframes.

Might I suggest being able to cast Spellbind and Lantern on targets that already have one or the other ability active on them? Right now, if an enemy is floating away under Spellbind's effect, you can't create a Lantern from that enemy but you can extract a soul from it with Tribute. Likewise, if a Lantern enemy is sitting right there, Spellbind won't affect it; I think it should at least make that enemy drop its weapon on the ground.

Also Razorwing can't lock-on with Diwata to hit enemies floating away due to Spellbind, while normal enemies aren't a problem. You see the inter-kit clunkiness in these examples?

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i dont know if its happening only to me but, after reaching 200% in duration, Titania's skill Tribute do not summon the collectible aura anymore when i cast any of the 4 forms of it on a enemy

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The armor buff to warframes, especially the ones who had low armor (i.e Banshee, Nyx, trinity, etc.) is certainly good and very welcome, especially to Vauban. Although I'm able to survive longer, I still find some of his abilities and mechanics to be almost, if not, completely useless, such as:

  1. Vector Pad - Basically horizontal bounce, this ability has no use other than a momentary speed boost, of which the movement system of the warframes, also known has "Parkour 2.0" beats it in every single way. I suggest to replace this ability to Vector Shield, similar to the corpus Vector Shields; 
  2. Bastille/Vortex Armor Buff - The armor buff that this ability provides is very good, but it's duration is too low. Even adding ability duration mods, the duration is a low value of approx. 15 seconds. I highly suggest to replace the duration mechanic to the same of Atla's, in which his armor decays at a rate of 5 armor points per second (According to the Warframe wiki).

I believe with these changes, Vauban will have enough survivability and can use his abilities to their fullest potential, especially the Bastille/Vortex armor buff.

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