Warframe Revised: 100x Restore Blueprint Megathread

[Drago55577]

1 minute ago, Ghostiepoofie said:

What does this have to do, with the fact...
That mutagen samples drop rate, is horrendous?

Are you actually paying attention.
Or you just like to have people groveling at your feet?

The new research, brings up the topic, of horrible mutagen sample grinds.
And this could use change, for crying out loud.

Have you seen the 55,000 mutagen samples post?
Or is this deliberate ignorance, just to satisfy that ego?

I can give you detonite/fieldron stacks by the millions, if you want.
Bah, you wouldn't get it...

It has everything to do with the fact. It's balanced around clans. Not solo play. This is a very simple distinction, one you would do well to understand.

There is nothing more to it. 

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

3 hours ago, Drago55577 said:

A ghost clan is significantly easier than his shadow clan. All I can say is recruit people or join an existing clan. They're not meant to be solo ventures.

Let’s say I did have a fully active clan. How are 10 people supposed to get 500 Mutagen Samples each in a reasonable amount of time, each? Other than farming for several days straight with ultimate cheese set up of Nekros Hydroid Smeeta paid boosters.

Or maybe since it’s so easy for you, you’d like to fund it for me?

[Drago55577]

5 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Let’s say I did have a fully active clan. How are 10 people supposed to get 500 Mutagen Samples each in a reasonable amount of time, each? Other than farming for several days straight with ultimate cheese set up of Nekros Hydroid Smeeta paid boosters.

Or maybe since it’s so easy for you, you’d like to fund it for me?

I would but I funded two clans. But like everyone else did, nekros and khora in ODS/ODD, you'll, iirc, get around 6 (as a group not per person) per wave without a booster. So around 6 per 1-2 minutes. 

EDIT: Actually no one did it with khora because she didn't exist back then. Forgot about that.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Drago55577
Clarification

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

2 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

I would but I funded two clans. But like everyone else did, nekros and khora in ODS/ODD, you'll, iirc, get around 6 per wave without a booster. So around 6 per 1-2 minutes. 

With booster, 12 per one or two minutes is over 13 hours of grinding. HILARIOUS.

[Drago55577]

Just now, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

With booster, 12 per one or two minutes is over 13 hours of grinding. HILARIOUS.

That's... Not that bad? Did you expect everything to be given to you with little investment? We're spoiled with other weapons because we have millions of resources stockpiled, so we never have to try.

[Traumtulpe]

54 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

The Hema/health restores are balanced around not being solo.

24 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

It's balanced around clans.

Let's not kid ourselves, the Hema's research requirements are not balanced period. DE literally added 2 zeros to many at the number of Mutagen Samples - and here you are, defending the status quo as "balanced" and making a fool of yourself.

 

[Drago55577]

1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

Let's not kid ourselves, the Hema's research requirements are not balanced period. DE literally added 2 zeros to many at the number of Mutagen Samples - and here you are, defending the status quo as "balanced" and making a fool of yourself.

 

The fool is the one who expects everything to be given to them, without any investment or effort. 

Maybe an argument can be made to lower it, that's not in question.

But it's not going to be lowered because a solo player thinks he should be able to do the research of a shadow clan on his own. It was intended to take time. Imagine how easy it would be for a clan to do it if it was balanced around solo play?

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

2 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

That's... Not that bad? Did you expect everything to be given to you with little investment? We're spoiled with other weapons because we have millions of resources stockpiled, so we never have to try.

I spent 5 hours getting the Akarius and Acceltra for myself, don’t give me “little investment.” Spent 3 years waiting to get the Despair from Stalker and base Dentron from Zanuka. Don’t give me “LITTLE” investment. There’s plenty of weapons which are easy to acquire with massive stockpiles of resources, those weapons are also MR fodder.

Over 13 hours IS too much. It IS that bad. I don’t expect to given everything for free. I took a month to get a nice looking Adarza Kavat. I’ve tried PLENTY for things that are actually useful, or at the very least fun to do in the case of Disruption.

But 13 hours of boring, rewardless survival and defense? I already have Octavia, so I never have to touch the Derelicts again. Defense missions reward crap for doing them. So 13 hours of grinding for a bad weapon with no other rewaeds. That is too much grind.

2 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

The fool is the one who expects everything to be given to them, without any investment or effort. 

Maybe an argument can be made to lower it, that's not in question.

But it's not going to be lowered because a solo player thinks he should be able to do the research of a shadow clan on his own. It was intended to take time. Imagine how easy it would be for a clan to do it if it was balanced around solo play?

It’d take the same amount of time as a solo player doing it because nobody has Mutagen Samples on hand.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, Drago55577 said:

It was intended to take time.

No, you don't understand. They LITERALLY added 2 zeros to the Mutagen Samples, by accident.

Look at other weapons research requirements:

• Torid: 10
• Scoliac: 25
• Mios: 30
• Cerata: 25
• Hema: 5000
• Dual Ichor: 25
• Acrid: 10
• Embolyst: 30
• Synapse: 65
• Pupacyst: 30
• Mutalist Quanta: 30
• Paracyst: 30
• Caustacyst: 30
• Dual Toxocyst: 20
• Pox: 20
• Phage: 10

[Drago55577]

8 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I spent 5 hours getting the Akarius and Acceltra for myself, don’t give me “little investment.” Spent 3 years waiting to get the Despair from Stalker and base Dentron from Zanuka. Don’t give me “LITTLE” investment. There’s plenty of weapons which are easy to acquire with massive stockpiles of resources, those weapons are also MR fodder.

Over 13 hours IS too much. It IS that bad. I don’t expect to given everything for free. I took a month to get a nice looking Adarza Kavat. I’ve tried PLENTY for things that are actually useful, or at the very least fun to do in the case of Disruption.

But 13 hours of boring, rewardless survival and defense? I already have Octavia, so I never have to touch the Derelicts again. Defense missions reward crap for doing them. So 13 hours of grinding for a bad weapon with no other rewaeds. That is too much grind.

It’d take the same amount of time as a solo player doing it because nobody has Mutagen Samples on hand.

So you're okay with much longer grinds? 

But more importantly, it would absolutely not take as long as a solo player doing it. A solo player earns X resources per hour. 10 people earn X*10, not even factoring in efficiency increases due to combo.

Reducing it by a factor of ten simply isn't reasonable. Maybe 25%, 50% even. But not reducing a 10 man effort into a 1 man effort. 

 

Edit for above: You've only shown that it's vastly disproportionate to other weapons. This doesn't prove that it wasn't intentional. If DE has said that it was an accident and for some reason refuse to fix it, then, well, that's that. 

Edit 2: it's intentional. 

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Drago55577

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

1 minute ago, Drago55577 said:

So you're okay with much longer grinds? 

But more importantly, it would absolutely not take as long as a solo player doing it. A solo player earns X resources per hour. 10 people earn X*10, not even factoring in efficiency increases due to combo.

Reducing it by a factor of ten simply isn't reasonable. Maybe 25%, 50% even. But not reducing a 10 man effort into a 1 man effort. 

I’m okay with grinds relative to rewards. I’m okay with grinds that are FUN at least, like Disruption.

And it would take as long as a solo player doing it in a full clan. Half of my clan doesn’t even have Jupiter access, much less Eris. The remaining half either doesn’t have Eris access, doesn’t play anymore, or doesn’t want to grind the Hema. So unless I create ten clones of myself, it’s going to take the same amount of time regardless.

Reducing the Hema to 50 samples seems reasonable.

[Drago55577]

Just now, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I’m okay with grinds relative to rewards. I’m okay with grinds that are FUN at least, like Disruption.

And it would take as long as a solo player doing it in a full clan. Half of my clan doesn’t even have Jupiter access, much less Eris. The remaining half either doesn’t have Eris access, doesn’t play anymore, or doesn’t want to grind the Hema. So unless I create ten clones of myself, it’s going to take the same amount of time regardless.

Reducing the Hema to 50 samples seems reasonable.

50 samples would take minutes. It's intentional to be balanced around taking 500 samples per player, which is, assuming no booster, only a few hours per player. Let's say you only get 100 an hour, that's five hours per player. 

It's intended to be balanced around clan contribution and is not difficult to get with a contributing clan, as is intended.

You are not the target if you're solo or 3 active people in a 100 person clan.

[Traumtulpe]

9 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

it's intentional.

You actually believe that? The Hema is a piece of trash, I wanted to try it when I was a new player - by the time my clan had it researched nobody even bothered building the Hema. I still have the blueprint in my inventory.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

2 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

50 samples would take minutes. It's intentional to be balanced around taking 500 samples per player, which is, assuming no booster, only a few hours per player. Let's say you only get 100 an hour, that's five hours per player. 

It's intended to be balanced around clan contribution and is not difficult to get with a contributing clan, as is intended.

You are not the target if you're solo or 3 active people in a 100 person clan.

50 samples would take just shy of an hour if no booster was used, assuming 6 per minute. Which is still more than I would expect to get.

500 samples per player isn’t 5 hours. It’d be 60 per hour, which would be a bit over 4 hours of uninterrupted grind.

[Drago55577]

12 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

50 samples would take just shy of an hour if no booster was used, assuming 6 per minute. Which is still more than I would expect to get.

500 samples per player isn’t 5 hours. It’d be 60 per hour, which would be a bit over 4 hours of uninterrupted grind.

Actually I don't have much of a response. 4 hours per player doesn't sound unreasonable at all, to me. I think, realistically, it would take maybe an hour or two longer, that's not terrible.

Edit: No I'm pretty sure it would take 9-10 hours for a 10 man clan to get 5000 mutagen. Unless my math is severely off.

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Drago55577

[CopperBezel]

29 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I spent 5 hours getting the Akarius and Acceltra for myself, don’t give me “little investment.” Spent 3 years waiting to get the Despair from Stalker and base Dentron from Zanuka. Don’t give me “LITTLE” investment.

I have no connection with this topic, and I'm really commiserating because my Gauss Systems Blueprint took me many hours of bad rolling, but RNG is a bleh in general and I went to get the Akarius the other day expecting a similar investment....

Edited March 12, 2020 by CopperBezel

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

4 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

I have no connection with this topic, and I'm really commiserating because my Gauss Systems Blueprint took me many hours of bad rolling, but RNG is a bleh in general and I went to get the Akarius the other day expecting a similar investment....

Took me I think 5 hours over a week to get the Akarius since I got lucky and got Acceltra an hour in. Got a second Acceltra Blueprint before the Akarius actually. I did however, take maybe 7 or 8 hours over two weeks of awful rolls to get Gauss' systems. I got them once, and due to some bad luck they literally vanished from my inventory so I had to redo the grind.

[Drago55577]

Rng with no safeties is stupid I don't think anyone can disagree there.

[TheLexiConArtist]

16 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

50 samples would take minutes. It's intentional to be balanced around taking 500 samples per player, which is, assuming no booster, only a few hours per player. Let's say you only get 100 an hour, that's five hours per player. 

It's intended to be balanced around clan contribution and is not difficult to get with a contributing clan, as is intended.

You are not the target if you're solo or 3 active people in a 100 person clan.

Clans aren't balanced around the maximum capacity. They are - arguably - balanced around the halfway point.

So there we already increased to a 1000 sample per person expectation.

Add onto this the long-running problem that Clan Tiers are not equally weighted with regards to the minimum-to-maximum membership ratios - Ghost clans effectively span two tiers in comparison to every other size bracket, which means you only need 1/3rd your membership to remain active for any non-ghost clan to still be on par with their highest expected demand (5000/ea).

A lone Ghost is supported by the system - you don't need to have more than one to even initially create a clan, much less to maintain one with dwindling membership. Therefore, it is not unrealistic to state that a player may be bearing the full weight of research (or anything else, like event scoring) alone.

 

As an added kick in the nuts, solo spawn rules mean that going to farm alone is even more oppressive - I seem to recall my own Hema farm, where I forced myself to spend an hour a day in ODS whenever I happened to have a booster up, for many, many days. One drop per minute was luxury in that situation - even as Bonedaddy.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

15 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

Actually I don't have much of a response. 4 hours per player doesn't sound unreasonable at all, to me. I think, realistically, it would take maybe an hour or two longer, that's not terrible.

Edit: No I'm pretty sure it would take 9-10 hours for a 10 man clan to get 5000 mutagen. Unless my math is severely off.

 

Yeah I screwed up my math and didn't pay enough attention to it.

6 samples per minute X 10 = 60 per hour. At 500 samples per person, that's 500 / 60 = 8.3 for eight hours, twenty or so minutes. So for FULL CLAN, that's only nine hours factoring in loading times, IF they're lucky and somehow perfect.

For a single person that's 83 hours and twenty minutes. With luck. And reminder THERE ARE NO FULL SQUADS. I couldn't even get 9 people to pony up 50 cryotic to finish off what I payed for in the Knux.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Drago55577 said:

It has everything to do with the fact. It's balanced around clans. Not solo play. This is a very simple distinction, one you would do well to understand.

There is nothing more to it. 

 

48 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

The fool is the one who expects everything to be given to them, without any investment or effort. 

Maybe an argument can be made to lower it, that's not in question.

But it's not going to be lowered because a solo player thinks he should be able to do the research of a shadow clan on his own. It was intended to take time. Imagine how easy it would be for a clan to do it if it was balanced around solo play?

 

33 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

50 samples would take minutes. It's intentional to be balanced around taking 500 samples per player, which is, assuming no booster, only a few hours per player. Let's say you only get 100 an hour, that's five hours per player. 

It's intended to be balanced around clan contribution and is not difficult to get with a contributing clan, as is intended.

You are not the target if you're solo or 3 active people in a 100 person clan.

Well, color me impressed.

This lad is really, still going at it.
On second thought.
Maybe I could have expected as much.

So, I read through your... responses.
Assuming you are 100% correct with that stament.
I wouldn't have been able to accomplish the following:

Spoiler

And yes, this is a shadow clan.
So I grinded 3x everything.
And yet, I am okay with all this...
Huh... *ponders*
I wonder why that would be?
Even grinded the 60,000 cryotic for the knux.
And I am fine with that.

Why?
Because these don't drop by 1, every 5 minutes.
Requiring an overseas date and time coordination, with several people, playing through the night/calling in sick at their job.

Why does mutagen samples, only pose to be a problem, in this conversation?
Gee, no idea...
Nope, I'm totally clueless.

48 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

Imagine how easy it would be for a clan to do it if it was balanced around solo play?

Yes, Imagine.
How could I have ever gotten those resources x3 then?

Everything should drop in stacks of 1.

Simply genius.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Guest
typos. I allways got typos. Sorry :/

[CopperBezel]

9 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Took me I think 5 hours over a week to get the Akarius since I got lucky and got Acceltra an hour in. Got a second Acceltra Blueprint before the Akarius actually. I did however, take maybe 7 or 8 hours over two weeks of awful rolls to get Gauss' systems. I got them once, and due to some bad luck they literally vanished from my inventory so I had to redo the grind.

Gotcha. Yikes. It was about an hour for me for my first time getting the Acceltra blueprint too and my Gauss Systems was on a similar order to yours, but then, yeah, I got the Akarius in six minutes with a free unneeded Acceltra. Sorry for the bad rolls. = [

Edited March 12, 2020 by CopperBezel

[Drago55577]

1 minute ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Clans aren't balanced around the maximum capacity. They are - arguably - balanced around the halfway point.

So there we already increased to a 1000 sample per person expectation.

Add onto this the long-running problem that Clan Tiers are not equally weighted with regards to the minimum-to-maximum membership ratios - Ghost clans effectively span two tiers in comparison to every other size bracket, which means you only need 1/3rd your membership to remain active for any non-ghost clan to still be on par with their highest expected demand (5000/ea).

A lone Ghost is supported by the system - you don't need to have more than one to even initially create a clan, much less to maintain one with dwindling membership. Therefore, it is not unrealistic to state that a player may be bearing the full weight of research (or anything else, like event scoring) alone.

 

As an added kick in the nuts, solo spawn rules mean that going to farm alone is even more oppressive - I seem to recall my own Hema farm, where I forced myself to spend an hour a day in ODS whenever I happened to have a booster up, for many, many days. One drop per minute was luxury in that situation - even as Bonedaddy.

Yeah the costs not scaling well for larger clans is definitely a problem, most of their members are generally padding and don't play the game much, if at all. Much easier to coordinate clans at 10-30 players, dedicated ones more, like a good Eve Online corp.

Just now, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Yeah I screwed up my math and didn't pay enough attention to it.

6 samples per minute X 10 = 60 per hour. At 500 samples per person, that's 500 / 60 = 8.3 for eight hours, twenty or so minutes. So for FULL CLAN, that's only nine hours factoring in loading times, IF they're lucky and somehow perfect.

For a single person that's 83 hours and twenty minutes. With luck. And reminder THERE ARE NO FULL SQUADS. I couldn't even get 9 people to pony up 50 cryotic to finish off what I payed for in the Knux.

Honestly I think it's worth finding a better clan if they won't contribute. Balancing around people who refuse to contribute to clans seems, well, stupid. Just find someone else. 

That's why I originally had to pay for the hema more than once, I left the clan after I figured out they don't want to help. Found a better one, six people, we all share the costs. Been in it for a few years now.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

1 minute ago, Drago55577 said:

Honestly I think it's worth finding a better clan if they won't contribute. Balancing around people who refuse to contribute to clans seems, well, stupid. Just find someone else. 

That's why I originally had to pay for the hema more than once, I left the clan after I figured out they don't want to help. Found a better one, six people, we all share the costs. Been in it for a few years now.

HA, NO. I'm not leaving a clan that I funded about a fourth of everything in and that I have near full control over, just to get one stupid gun. Especially since I funded most of the dojo colors by myself, all of the new X100 blueprint researches by myself, pretty much everything but the actual infrastructure I already put resources into. And I don't feel like getting into a new clan that I'm going to ignore except for the clan tech mastery fodder.

Good on you for having a good clan. Not everyone has that position.

[Drago55577]

14 minutes ago, AegisAmaranth said:

 

 

Well, color me impressed.

This lad is really, still going at it.
On second thought.
Maybe I could have expected as much.

So, I read through your... responses.
Assuming you are 100% correct with that stament.
I wouldn't have been able to accomplish the following:

  Hide contents

And yes, this is a shadow clan.
So I grinded 3x everything.
And yet, I am okay with all this...
Huh... *ponders*
I wonder why that would be?
Even grinded the 60,000 cryotic for the knux.
And I am fine with that.

Why?
Because these don't drop by 1, every 5 minutes.
Requiring an overseas date and time coordination, with several people, playing through the night/calling in sick at their job.

Why does mutagen samples, only pose to be a problem, in this conversation?
Gee, no idea...
Nope, I'm totally clueless.

Yes, Imagine.
How could I have ever gotten those resources x3 then?

Everything should drop in stacks of 1.

Simply genius.

Holy S#&$ dude that's a lot of contributions. I would've left long before then, 93 detonite is insane. So are the forma, that would've taken a lot longer than some samples.

But still, you need to realise it's not balanced around you. A shadow clan isn't intended to be funded by one person.