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Warframe Revised: >100% Status Chance / Shotgun Megathread


SilverBones
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53 minutes ago, nslay said:

They bested your proposal. They started with the original per-shot status chance values of shotguns and then upgraded it to triple what the per-pellet chance would have been for the original per-shot status chance (so the per-shot status chance skyrockets!).

Care to explain? They started with the per shot status chance (30% for TP), upgraded it to triple (3X) what the per-pellet chance would have been for the original per shot status chance(4.36).

30 =/= 13, and definetly 13<30. Never mind that the TP has 11.3, not 13. And 11.3< 13. I fail to see a correlation here between the numbers and what you are talking about. I would have been fine with 13, however. That's tripling the original per pellet status chance. But the TP doesn't have that value. And from what i understand: no shotgun that has not EXACTLY 3 pellets has had the sort of approach you are speaking of. I don't see "3x the status chance" anywhere here. I see a number that has been pulled out by Old SC*3/Pellets. Which could be a mean, prehaps, but it was not the previous mean, either. I'm not a stats monster, or even average, so i'm asking "what you mean?" in more detail, because i'm not sure i'm getting this right.

Edited by TRPBWhite
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20 minutes ago, TRPBWhite said:

Care to explain? They started with the per shot status chance (30% for TP), upgraded it to triple (3X) what the per-pellet chance would have been for the original per shot status chance(4.36).

30 =/= 13, and definetly 13<30. Never mind that the TP has 11.3, not 13. And 11.3< 13. I fail to see a correlation here between the numbers and what you are talking about. I would have been fine with 13, however. That's tripling the original per pellet status chance. But the TP doesn't have that value. And from what i understand: no shotgun that has not EXACTLY 3 pellets has had the sort of approach you are speaking of. I don't see "3x the status chance" anywhere here. I see a number that has been pulled out by Old SC*3/Pellets. Which could be a mean, prehaps, but it was not the previous mean, either. I'm not a stats monster, or even average, so i'm asking "what you mean?" in more detail, because i'm not sure i'm getting this right.

You have to consider the effect the per-pellet chance has on the per-shot chance. Let P denote the per-pellet chance and S denote the per-shot chance.

The probability that a single pellet procs status is P. The complement is the probability that the pellet does not proc status 1-P. In an N pellet shotgun, the chance no pellet procs status is given as a product 1-P N times:

probability no pellet procs status = (1-P)*(1-P)*(1-P)* ... *(1-P) = (1-P)^N

The complement of this probability is the probability at least one pellet proc status:

probability at least one pellet procs status = 1 - (1-P)^N

This is the same as the "per-shot" status chance S

S = 1 - (1-P)^N

Using some algebra, you can find P as a function of S

P = 1 - (1-S)^(1/N)

Now returning to S = 1-(1-P)^N... if I triple P then S increases as well (to be rigorous we need to clip 3*P to be no more than 1).

NOTE: We know DE tripled the pellet status chance because they showed this to us in their dev stream. The forum even had pictures of the plot. This is well known by now! But it seems to be different/broken for beam shotguns.

Now as an example, Strun Wraith has S = 0.4 and N = 10. So P ~ 0.05. Now triple it: P ~ 0.15

So what is the per-shot status chance with P ~ 0.15?

new per-shot status chance S = 1 - (1-0.15)^10 ~ 0.8

So the Strun Wraith has an effective per-shot status chance of 80% with the new changes. So the per-shot status chance skyrocketed from 40% to 80%!

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1 hour ago, imbressive said:

the devs only changed the tool-tip and separated multi-shot from status to not confuse people.

lets say u use an assault rifle, 100% multi-shot will give u 1 additional bullet without consuming it from your magazine ( magic space bullet). so you gain 2 bullets you shoot, for the cost of 1 from your ammo.  yes status chance is still pet projectile/bullet/pellet.

yes you can see it as a nerf, but previously you had to reach 100% status before applying multi-shot, otherwise the status chance was divided between all pellets shot.

example: you reach 99% status without multi-shot, you have 10 pellets. 99 ÷ 10 = 9.9 % status per pellet ( true chance).

with multi-shot you only increased the pellet count even more.

example : you reach 99% status without multi-shot, you have 10 pellets, then u add 100% multi-shot = 20 pellets.  99 ÷ 20 = 4,95% status per pellet (true chance).

as you see this 1% screwed you over. but if you could reach 100% before multi-shot, it was amazing and every pellet applied a status effect proc.

its a buff and a nerf at the same time right now. since not every shotgun can reach 100% easily, or has to use the 90% status chance mod and sacrifice another mod (dmg potentially) or needs a riven.

 

i struggle to judge the status changes atm since i lack forma or rivens to push past the 100% or reach around 200% without killing all my dmg in the process.

if what you say is true then wow. that really improves a LOT of weapons.

 

still it boosts normal rifles/bows and such that start with 1 shot way more than shotguns that now start from a %perPallet setting

 

all in all I would greatly like some clearance from DE about this (best would be just to see the coding/formula for it)

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Even at 100%, the status is still divided among pellets through:

P = 1-(1-S)^(1/N)

where P = per pellet status chance, S = per shot status chance, N is the total number of pellets. In the old system, if S = 1, then P = 1 for any N > 0... The 100% per-shot status is "divided" to be 100% per-pellet.

Also the example of Strun Wraith at 99% is a good example of how this is NOT arithmetic division. When S = 0.99

P = 1-(1-0.99)^(1/10) ~ 0.37

That's quite a bit larger than the 9.9% in the example (because it's not arithmetic division... calculating S / N is wrong).

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Now that status chance mods are all buffed to 90%, acolyte status mods are worthless. Maybe make them give a flat status chance (like the sobek augment). It could be interesting to see some weapons using status with these mods. It could add build diversity for low status chance weapons... Isn't that what you are looking for ? 😀

 

Edited by Lecornflake
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On 2020-03-02 at 12:00 PM, [DE]Bear said:

we’ve removed 0.25x Multiplier for Elemental Status Effects, meaning all Elemental Status Effects are 4x more likely.

Can we get a buff to the IPS mods then? I understand why it was changes but it hurts builds that used IPS, aka Slash. 

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53 minutes ago, nslay said:

You have to consider the effect the per-pellet chance has on the per-shot chance. Let P denote the per-pellet chance and S denote the per-shot chance.

The probability that a single pellet procs status is P. The complement is the probability that the pellet does not proc status 1-P. In an N pellet shotgun, the chance no pellet procs status is given as a product 1-P N times:

probability no pellet procs status = (1-P)*(1-P)*(1-P)* ... *(1-P) = (1-P)^N

The complement of this probability is the probability at least one pellet proc status:

probability at least one pellet procs status = 1 - (1-P)^N

This is the same as the "per-shot" status chance S

S = 1 - (1-P)^N

Using some algebra, you can find P as a function of S

P = 1 - (1-S)^(1/N)

Now returning to S = 1-(1-P)^N... if I triple P then S increases as well (to be rigorous we need to clip 3*P to be no more than 1).

NOTE: We know DE tripled the pellet status chance because they showed this to us in their dev stream. The forum even had pictures of the plot. This is well known by now! But it seems to be different/broken for beam shotguns.

Now as an example, Strun Wraith has S = 0.4 and N = 10. So P ~ 0.05. Now triple it: P ~ 0.15

So what is the per-shot status chance with P ~ 0.15?

new per-shot status chance S = 1 - (1-0.15)^10 ~ 0.8

So the Strun Wraith has an effective per-shot status chance of 80% with the new changes. So the per-shot status chance skyrocketed from 40% to 80%!

And the numbers do not match the premise you are putting forward!

1-(1-0,9)^(1/8) does not equal 11.3%. If this was true, the Tigris Prime would have a 25% status chance per pellet.

DE did not triple the pellet status chance. They tripled the original status chance and then divided that number by the number of pellets.

The Strun Wraith has, as of now, 12% status chance per pellet.

Edited by TRPBWhite
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On going over 100% status:

It feels like this was a long time coming. It's not earth-shattering (yet), but it's good to see all the same. I think this would be a lot bigger change if more status weapons had much, much higher starting status values. Like, an innate 50-70% on most status-type weapons. Hell, I'd be game to try some heavy, single-shot weapons that start around 120%!

On elementals procing at the same rate as IPS:

Also feels like an overdue change, but this runs into the problem that non-melee weapons' 7-point IPS damage mods are all well below useful values, meaning that it'll be much harder for players to build around IPS status. Bringing them all up to the same 90% bonus that melee weapons have would make more IPS-dominant builds viable on primary and secondary weapons, and would allow players to tune their status levels to their liking.

On shotgun/multishot status changes:

While I agree fundamentally that the oversight that allowed 100% builds needed changing for the sake of mechanic transparency, I don't believe that you went far enough in buffing per-pellet status chances. This largely ties in with needing status weapons to start with much higher values - if you want status to be competitive with crit (which sounds like a big motivator for these changes, from watching the devstreams) then you can't be afraid of letting us go ham with it! :tongue:

On changes to status procs:

Viral won out huge here, and actually brings some of that "compete with crit" flavor to the status pot luck. The Corrosive and Magnetic changes are part of a larger set of overall changes and all of that needs a lot more testing before I can say anything for sure. Most of the DoT statuses seem about where they were, though I'll probably want to tweak some of my Slash and Gas builds that I've used against the Corpus.

Every variation of "this neither applies a DoT nor increases incoming damage" played a meaningless game of musical chairs, which is such a wasted opportunity. It really cannot be overstated how little we want status effects that only apply CC or only non-lethally debuff the enemy. Knocking living targets over is actually worse than doing nothing, since a prone target is much harder to hit. When given the choice between "the enemy is attacking less," "the enemy is moving less" and "the enemy is both of those and also dead," players will always want the third option. When designing a status effect the question you should always be asking yourself is, "Can the afflicted target be killed faster as a result of this status?" If the answer is no, then reconsider.

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38 minutes ago, TRPBWhite said:

And the numbers do not match the premise you are putting forward!

1-(1-0,9)^(1/8) does not equal 11.3. If this was true, the Tigris Prime would have a 0.25 status chance per pellet.

DE did not triple the pellet status chance. They tripled the original status chance and then divided that number by the number of pellets.

The Strun Wraith has, as of now, 0.12 status chance per pellet.

First, they really did say they would triple the per-pellet chance (not triple the base status chance like you said). Second, the "premise" I put forward is rooted in probability theory. There is nothing factually wrong with what I wrote. If your Tigris Prime has a 90% per-shot status, it really would have a 25% per-pellet status chance... in that case, the probability no pellet procs status is (1-0.25)^8 = 0.1. The probability at least 1 pellet procs status is 1-0.1 = 0.9.

On the other hand, your proposed scheme (which is not what they described they would do) does indeed match the numbers in the game. I am disappointed that DE does not seem to understand its own status system or even basic probability. So they did indeed take status, do arithmetic division by the number of pellets, and then call this "per pellet" chance and then triple it. But this is not the correct per-pellet probability of status. It's an underestimation.

EDIT: P.S. Even though they botched their calculation, it's still generally a buff to the "per-shot" status before. So take your Tigris Prime example of 11.3 ... that results in a per-shot status of ~62% (up from 30%).

 

Edited by nslay
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I made a detailed post on the general feedback forum, but long story short:

 

1. switch blast and impact. right now impact is annoying, and blast doesn't feel "blasty".

2. old blast wasn't bad, using blast was a choice... so you could make it like this:

 

New impact causes accuracy loss, but DO NOT, move enemy characters, in any circunstance.

New blast, can be based on what new impact was planned to be: stagger, and with enough procs OR enough damage, cause ragdolling. This way you can still use Blast as a method of CC when you don't have a warframe with CC on hand.

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Warning; Multiple Opinions detected

I re-read the patch notes section 5 times before even preforming any tests regarding these status changes.
I don't really feel these were tested in high teir gameplay. A lot of the status effects now feels they are under preforming, mainly due to the 0.25x change to how elements get proced vs IPS that got snucked into the mainline.
What this does is not only make the past 7 years of warframe build videos and testing irrelevant, but undermines the effort of the community's creativity aspect in my opinion. Things change and some change is good.

Me venting about Corrosive; Some things needed to be addressed about how corrosive was used by a lot of people to strip armor 100% permanently, but guess what, so do a lot of warframes. Oberon can strip armor 100% at 335% power strength, Vauban can strip armor 100%, Frost can strip armor 100% for the duration of his Avalanche, Grendal Can strip armor 100%, and there other frames that can preform similar feats such as these. The idea that forcing corrosive to be a 26% base and a 6% additive every other proc is a great idea, BUT the cap of 80% is just not needed. It needs to able to strip to 100% and stay Stripped. Are you telling me that the ARMOR of a Grineer has the capability to regenerate at the speed of a HIGH END NOMU From My Hero Academia? And not just a Lvl 9999 Heavy gunner either. A Lvl 1 Basic Lancer has this capability. I get potentially making it so Higher end ELITE UNIQUE types of Grineer having a ARMOR Corrosive REGENERATE function, or Armor that can repair it from being melted, it makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that EVERY Grineer unit has this function built into their suit. That most cost a LOT of credits, and we all know that clones really aren't worth the funding to keep alive based on their Military Training of walking in a straight line to their death. Also anything I said about Grineer can be applied to any unit with armor etc.

Slash is fine, doesn't need to be changed. I like the Shield gating part and that MAKES SENSE. Good idea.

Impact... no body liked you to begin with, why do you keep coming back to haunt us. Impact needs to be revised again, with the 0.25x chance of procing change, it just makes everything so much worse to handle.

Puncture is fine, doesn't need to be changed in its core, but maybe another effect like damage vulnerability to create a bit more variety.

Cold is fine, doesn't need to be changed. It MAKES SENSE. Maybe add a Frostbite effect or something that procs at 10. Cold kind of goes unnoticed a lot of the times.

Heat was ok, and having no change is understandable since it just got reworked, IF it was the old state of elemental changes. Having it base strip armor to 50% outshines the first procs of Corrosive and makes corrosive second guess its own existance currently. Currently I can proc Hundreds of Heat procs with high fire rate weapons, and it literally doesn't matter. Needs to have some sort of combustion similar to how impact has an AoE or Electricity after a certain amount of procs.

Toxin, is fine, works as intended and doesn't need to be changed. Would be nice to see some sort of additional depth to it

Electricity is fine, it MAKES SENSE and works as intended.

Blast is interesting, I don't really have much input there

Corrosive... Yikes. I vented about my feeling about corrosive above. I get that 100% armor strip is scary, but for those of the community to engage enemies in missions with armor for over 2hours-16hours, it is basically a requirement. Can we strip armor with warframes? Yes we can. Should I feel forced to use a warframe because corrosive can't strip armor? No. Should I feel forced to use a weapon with corrosive because my warframe can't strip armor? No. There just needs to be a balance. The Scaling of warframe over the last few years is based on exponential graphics with numerical data. In practical missions, % based effects are the best thing any can have. With revenant, I can 1 shot anything in the entire game as long as I mind control it, and then dash through it if I have high enough power strength, but is that really how i should play? Balancing is the key to this. Fun vs Practical. For an average player, a level 300 or high Heavy gunner is a thing of fiction, but for endurance players with the time and arsenal, it is a daily occurrence. No doubt in my mind that Blessed pablo him self will come down from the heavens and give corrosive the treatment it deserves even though he doesn't like saryn, im sure that he has plenty to say about her and how viral works.

Radiation, its cool but kind of a gimick but I get it I guess. Kind of makes taking control of enemies or summoning your own with Nekros etc to a point. To be honest, been thinking of just making a radiation weapon with status duration and letting enemies fight among them selves but i'll test that later.

Viral is insane at early levels, I couldn't stop laughing. When 1 think breaks a hero emerges. Viral is that savior. If you aren't building for viral you kind of get left behind in terms of DPS

Gas, Gas needs more scaling and damage increase. There are some smarter people who can go into detail why

On 2020-03-02 at 1:00 PM, [DE]Bear said:

In addition, we’ve removed 0.25x Multiplier for Elemental Status Effects, meaning all Elemental Status Effects are 4x more likely.

By doing this you kind of also make everything else proc more often. This makes builds kind of awful to use and spits on the creativity of players. If I have more than 1 element on my weapon, lets say Viral + heat, Heat and Viral basically have the exact same chance to proc, even though lets say my viral stat was higher than my heat. I feel this should be reverted completely. Infact I'd say that it was one of the main reasons why things were sort of at a good balance these last 7 years. 

I understand Corrosive was over used and a bit scary for endgame content, but don't cut it out of the game, just bring everything else up to a level where players can be creative and make other combinations and unique builds. Perhaps a new Element is in order to reset this balance. In fact I think a new element is exactly what we need. 

1 New element to upset the balance, creating new waves in the meta, new combinations of elements New element + existing elements = New Combination Elements, providing X effects made up by Blessed Pablo and only Blessed Pablo. 

We need Pablo's help. 🙏 Save us, Save corrosive, Save builds and Tenno's creativity

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Gas may need a serious buff. Its damage type is already niche because it doesn't have any good multipliers against any faction. I can't even count Infested because it only affects light units, who are 3/4 of the time protected by Ancients (Toxic Ancients will even reduce Gas damage to 80%, and Ancients don't have weakness against Gas anyway). It's just a poorer choice now. Please consider giving Gas a significant buff to make it matter in the grand scheme of things.

Brainstorm suggestions:
- Gas procs stacks over 2 should create a lingering cloud after enemy death, increasing in duration depending on proc stacks
- Change how enemy health interacts with Gas e.g. giving positive multipliers to more types of health/armor/shield, instead of resistances or no multipliers. 
- Change how Toxic Ancients interacts with Gas and remove its damage mitigation for that specifically (less sure about that one, depending on other choices)
 

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47 minutes ago, nslay said:

First, they really did say they would triple the per-pellet chance (not triple the base status chance like you said). Second, the "premise" I put forward is rooted in probability theory. There is nothing factually wrong with what I wrote. If your Tigris Prime has a 90% per-shot status, it really would have a 25% per-pellet status chance... in that case, the probability no pellet procs status is (1-0.25)^8 = 0.1. The probability at least 1 pellet procs status is 1-0.1 = 0.9.

On the other hand, your proposed scheme (which is not what they described they would do) does indeed match the numbers in the game. I am disappointed that DE does not seem to understand its own status system or even basic probability. So they did indeed take status, do arithmetic division by the number of pellets, and then call this "per pellet" chance and then triple it. But this is not the correct per-pellet probability of status. It's an underestimation.

EDIT: P.S. Even though they botched their calculation, it's still generally a buff to the "per-shot" status before. So take your Tigris Prime example of 11.3 ... that results in a per-shot status of ~62% (up from 30%).

 

 

With "premise" i simply meant that "they did increase the status chance per pellet by a factor of 3". That's the premise you built your demonstration on.

Overall the standard, base unmodded chance of proccing at least 1 status has gone up, i agree. My "gripe" is not really on that, however. It's on the number they used and me not really understanding how "Shotguns as a special case means we have buffed the Status Chance of all Shotguns by x3 or greater. The UI now behaves to show the reality that you are determining Status Chance per pellet." reflects the change as is. Up until now the Status Chance was the chance that a single shot will proc at least one status. By what's in the patch notes, that number should have up WAY more than it currently is. Pellet%x3 makes some sense, too! Also other calculations might make sense!

But we got this. And i can't make head or tails of it and why that formula has been chosen over others, with that explanation in the patch notes.

Notice: i don't believe it would be "good" to have the Khom have a, what, 75% base per pellet status chance? It would be fun, for sure. I'm not even sure what the current chance is. Or that even having all shotguns have their x3 status chance transferred as per-pellet "correctly" would be good. Just... don't phrase it like in the patch notes...

Edit: Also "or greater"? there is a shotgun that had an "or greater"?

Edited by TRPBWhite
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Instead of multiplying shotgun status chance by 3 and then dividing it by number of pellets, do each shotgun on a case by case basis: multiply status chance by number of pellets, then divide by number of pellets. Then every shotgun would be relatively equal to it's performance from before the patch. 

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9 minutes ago, TRPBWhite said:

 

With "premise" i simply meant that "they did increase the status chance per pellet by a factor of 3". That's the premise you built your demonstration on.

Overall the standard, base unmodded chance of proccing at least 1 status has gone up, i agree. My "gripe" is not really on that, however. It's on the number they used and me not really understanding how "Shotguns as a special case means we have buffed the Status Chance of all Shotguns by x3 or greater. The UI now behaves to show the reality that you are determining Status Chance per pellet." reflects the change as is. Up until now the Status Chance was the chance that a single shot will proc at least one status. By what's in the patch notes, that number should have up WAY more than it currently is. Pellet%x3 makes some sense, too! Also other calculations might make sense!

But we got this. And i can't make head or tails of it and why that formula has been chosen over others, with that explanation in the patch notes.

Notice: i don't believe it would be "good" to have the Khom have a, what, 75% base per pellet status chance? It would be fun, for sure. I'm not even sure what the current chance is. Or that even having all shotguns have their x3 status chance transferred as per-pellet "correctly" would be good. Just... don't phrase it like in the patch notes...

Edit: Also "or greater"? there is a shotgun that had an "or greater"?

Well, you observed something wrong that I missed. I filed a bug report on their incorrect calculations. If they correct their calculation, the values should go up a little bit (e.g. Tigris Prime should be 13%, Vaykor Hek should be 12%, Corinth should be 6%, etc...).

Thanks for pointing this out. I can't believe DE made this mistake... wow.

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4 hours ago, nslay said:

They bested your proposal. They started with the original per-shot status chance values of shotguns and then upgraded it to triple what the per-pellet chance would have been for the original per-shot status chance (so the per-shot status chance skyrockets!). Because status mods operate on the new per-pellet status chance, you can't reach 100% anymore (except for Exergis or 1 pellet shotguns).

I think the changes to shotgun Status are great, given the current Status system. I still don't like current Status system. Currently, Shotguns are terrible for damage-based Status Effects (Slash, Heat, Electricity, Toxin, Gas), but are great for every other Status Effect. Meanwhile, slow-firing weapons with low multishot (e.g. most bows and snipers) modded for damage-based Status Effects will perform the same as any other weapon with similar Status Chance, but are terrible at applying other Status Effects. I want to be able to build an effective Corrosive Sniper or a Gas Shotgun, but that's a fool's errand with how Status currently works.

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I heard impact is being changed in some way again but just want to express my opinion just in case to say I hate the knockdown affect. Sniper rifles rely on getting headshots, and some have a lot of impact damage on them (Rubico), so with this my sniper rifle has a chance to knockdown the opponent? Doesn't make sense.

Knockdown made sense with the Blast element, which was usually attached to explosive weapons. Now it causes enemies to stand up right and reduce their accuracy? Also doesn't make sense.

Put the knockdown back on Blast so people can easily avoid modding knockdown like they used to. 

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1 hour ago, OrSpeeder said:

I made a detailed post on the general feedback forum, but long story short:

 

1. switch blast and impact. right now impact is annoying, and blast doesn't feel "blasty".

2. old blast wasn't bad, using blast was a choice... so you could make it like this:

 

New impact causes accuracy loss, but DO NOT, move enemy characters, in any circunstance.

New blast, can be based on what new impact was planned to be: stagger, and with enough procs OR enough damage, cause ragdolling. This way you can still use Blast as a method of CC when you don't have a warframe with CC on hand.

I really like this idea. The *only* issue I could see with it is both Impact and Puncture are just damage debuff status effects. So one does bonus damage vs shields, one vs ferrite armor, and both reduce damage output from enemies on status effect. It's not very inspired, but on the flip side, it does have some nice symmetry to it. 

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I find it appalling that they ended up gutting gas weapons in the short timeframe between announcement and actual release. I am guessing it was just an afterthought from someone who had no idea what they were doing.

Also knockdown on repeated impact procs feels like a nerf since it can help the enemies hide their squishy bits.

Magnetic feels nicer to use although there aren't many enemies with a high enough shield to justify using it

 

 

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  • Proc changes - Largely didn't make the game better, and just cause certain builds to be worthless.
    • Slash - In large part a weapon having a majority of its base damage as slash is worthless thanks to the new 4x weight towards elemental procs; And in addition slash procs where kinda nerfed agaist shields. So slash DoT is only worth it if it comes from a forced proc now.
    • Toxin/Gas - I have yet to test, but if you didn't increase the damage to account for the reduced duration, you nerfed these for no reason. And there was no need to remove toxin's bonus damage against Ferrite, or at the very least you could have substituted it with something.
    • Cold - You nerfed cold yet again for no reason.
    • Blast - Is now a worthless proc, as it was great CC. And part of the main reason it was great was because you could largely choose when you wanted it.
    • Corrosive - Taking into account all the changes, the massive nerf to this element means it still preforms fine and is still the go-to element on 80% of all weapons. It's just a less unique and versatile proc now. But for most of the remaining 20%, they used to rely on over-stripping (and now they can't). So if they don't have the base damage or crit scaling to substitute, they're just worthless (I.E. the Pox).
    • Viral - Is now what it should have been in the first place, but now it's less useful. We fight armor-less Grineer much less often, and using it on base slash weapons it worthless. You now either use it on forced slash proc weapons maaaybe, or to debuff an enemy for a different (mainly corrosive) weapon.
    • Magnetic - Kinda what it should have been from the beginning, but still kinda worthless.
  • Stacking Procs - Poorly executed.
    • Impact - Worthless - Should have scaled up to something like making the enemy motionless, but rarely do you see IPS procs anymore.
    • Puncture - Worthless - Should have been reworked to do something like having your weapons do a small amount of bonus true/finisher damage. But rarely do you see IPS procs anymore.
    • Cold - Nerfed - Needs to start at 50% and scale up to 90%+. And it probably needs to increase other status effects' duration like it used to.
    • Electricity - Meh - Have the tesla effect chain back-and-forth between enemies based the number of procs on the initial target.
    • Blast - 2x Worthless - Revert blast to how it was, and cause each subsequent proc to spread one (different) proc that's on the initial target, to all other affected enemies. 
    • Corrosive - Nerfed - Make the duration 12 seconds and start the reduced armor at 35%, scaling to 90-95% (potentially at a faster rate). Make it additive with heat so we can over-strip again.
    • Radiation - Worthless - Make an enemy that dies with a radiation proc spawn as a friendly specter for one second per radiation proc (IDK cap the number of specters if needed).Or make the target take more damage from allies instead, and scale it way higher.
    • Magnetic - Meh? - Have each proc also scale with a pull-over-time like Magnetize's new stat, so it can synergize with its pared DPS element, Gas.
  • Shotguns - Make the previous "on card status chance" the new per pellet status chance, cause it's nowhere near broken.
    • Crit shotguns - The shotguns that should have benefited the most (I.E. the Corinth and Vaykor Hek), feel unchanged.
    • Hybrid - Since they scale with crit, and taking into account the overall changes, they are fine. But if all you did was reduce the status without nerfing armor, they'd suck (I.E. Kuva Drakoon/Brakk).
    • Status w/ high base damage - These shotguns manage because their base damage is sooo high (I.E. Tigress Prime).
    • Only Status (Over-Strippers) - These shotguns are absolute dumpster fires, and I don't see them bouncing back. (I.E. Strun Wraith, Mara Detron, Phantasma, etc...)
    • Redeemer - (BTW the card status is wrong) Unlike the other hybrids this weapon no longer feels good while mobbing with just crit as it's primary scaling. 
    • Kohm - I assume it's an oversight, but even with 90% base status this weapon feels basically the same as it did before the patch.
Edited by KitMeHarder
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Gas procs are massively nerfed by this because Gas' damage effectiveness penalties used to be equalized by the proc's resultant Toxin damage being neutral on Grineer and very good on Corpus, not only dealing extra damage but bypassing their shields. Now that the proc deals Gas damage by itself, it doesn't go through shields, it's -25% on corpus health, it's -50% on grineer after already getting reduced due to their armor, and it's damage bonuses on Infested cannon fodder are just as meaningless as they have ever been

Edited by JC75
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After having played around a lot with the new status in the past day I must say:

Just remove the caps.

If I have an insanely high status weapon with viral attached, I'd still need to shoot an enemy 2 ... 3 ... 4 times to get to a higher amount of stacks than the current cap. And by then ... I have shot an enemy - probably point black with a shotgun - 3 - 5 times. By then I expect the enemy to be dead. Having a cap on viral just seems unnecessary. The same goes for Magnetic and Radiation effects. Just adjust the base value and their corresponding increments and I think it will be fine.

On the topic of Radiation: Make it so enemies stop attacking you entirely - maybe at a certain threshold. (If you keep the cap, make it so at max stacks at the least).

On the topic of Corrosive: Keep the effect of it not removing 100% of the target's armor but make it stack in a way that approaches 100% with enough stacks. Also remove the timer. It does not make sense that Grineer suddenly can regenerate their defect armor. At least have it integrated into the lore if you MUST keep it that their armaments are suddenly self-repairing.

On the topic of Cold and Electricity: On their own their effects are rather weak. I suggest you add a radial slow effect to cold that increases in size with higher stacks. Have it be 10% per stack and at the 10th stack make it freeze the enemy in place while still increasing its area if you continue to focus fire at it with a lessened effect the closer you are to the edge. Electricity should increase the amount of arcs and/or jumps it can do with each stack. Make the arcs function like a high velocity pax seeker and it will have a neat visual effect, too.

On the topic of Impact: Just make it stun an enemy in a dazed state instead of making them fall on their butt. Increased hits increase the time the enemy stays dizzy. Right now Impact is - again - a drawback to have rather than a boon.

On the topic of Puncture: Damage reduction is utterly useless as an effect unless you make it applicable to boss enemies. But if boss enemies are not immune to status effects, just disabling them will be a better way to reduce their impact on the battle than making them weaker. I suggest: Have puncture radiate needles out from the target hit like Vauban's mine with increased status effect increasing the range and damage % radiated outwards.

On the topic of Blast: Similar to puncture, if I attack an enemy he ought to die, reducing the damage they deal isn't really something to look forward to. I suggest you make it so an enemy affected by blast simply radiates out other status effects that hit the same target with increased radius for higher stacks. Hit an enemy with 15 blast effects with an impact effect an all enemies in a 15m radius get stunned. It would be the pendant to puncture damage: Puncture damage radiates damage, blast damage radiates the status effect.

On the topic of Gas: Right now its effect is undertuned. I suggest that Gas just has the target radiate a toxic aura causing toxic effects over time to enemies around the target with an increased radius and appliance of toxic effect the higher your stacks are. The damage of the inflicted toxic effects can just scale off the listed gas value of the weapon, making it even slightly more effective to armored targets by making the toxic result be independent of the actual damage inflicted to the target having the gas effect active. This is especially important as Gas removes our ability to choose the two only status effects that can deal with armor (Heat and by merit of being locked out of both corrosive and viral: Toxin).

Edited by Salbeira
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